Your take on a gameplay changing mod?

[Plague Bringer]

Okay, some of you may have heard me rambling on about a game that's in early development stages.

Well, Delrey and I have downgraded that game to a mere mod for Tremulous.

Now, more to the point. As you all know, Tremulous is a FPS/RTS featuring aliens vs humans. Our idea is a FPS featuring humans vs humans. Now, I imagine Tremulous started off rather slow when it was still just a mod for Quake3, and this game, currently nameless, will too, but hopefully it'll eventually pick up.

Now for the questionnaire:

Would you be for or against the creation of this mod? Why or why not?

Do you think that this mod's revamped gameplay will negatively affect Tremulous as a whole?

If you were around for Q3 Tremulous, how did it's unique gameplay affect the Quake community?

[Death On Ice]

It's not a very original concept - Humans vs. Humans. Even cavemen have thought (and have participated) in that.
Part of what makes Tremulous cool is that it's an original idea. Why else would we be playing Tremulous if it was a Human vs. Human when we could be playing Unreal Tournament 3, Quake 4, Doom 3 and more.

I for one play Tremulous mostly for the community, but also because it stands out as an original idea in the crowd of Quake 3 mods which all feature mundane or minute weapon changes.

[iLoveMe]

No, i wouldnt like that because, the weapons wouldnt be fun to use humans vs humans, and it would be a bad gameplay . I really dont like this, if you want human vs human go play Savage =)

[Caveman]

puhlease Angel (yes we still remember some of your nick names)
Just because you are bad against humans, does not mean the whole world shares your malady.

/ontopic
Plaque, it depends .)
If the only change in this mod would be to implement H vs H, then NO.
Nothing is laid out to defend against it's own race, so a complete restructuring would be needed. (structures, weapons, maps)

[Plague]

I still can't believe this community's attitude towards game mods.  Whether stubborn personality's prevent them from accepting any new mods as 'worthy' of Tremulous, or they mistakenly feel that any new mod that is released will become statutory and not voluntary experience, it's not an idea outlook.

Yes, I would support a Human v Human gameplay mod and I don't believe that any mod can negatively affect Tremulous as a whole.

[Plague Bringer]

Thanks Caveman and Plague.

Clearing some things up about this mod:

It will not simply be swapping the alien team for humans. New maps, models and weapons (and structures if we decide to keep them) will come before a final release, and there will be much balance testing before a tweaked weapon HvH beta comes out.

I guess it'll turn out to be nothing more than an updated Q3, but with the addition of a weapon buying interface and possible strategy elements in base building. (Possible since we might scratch bases altogether.

Now then, for those that are completely against the idea, too bad. We're going through with it, so to make it less painfull for you, help us. The original Tremulous development team consisted of fourteen members, all with jobs split between mapping, texturing, modeling, debugging, sound, etc. We're currently working with a team of two With the jobs split a tad bit less than evenly between us.

Give us some suggestions for what you think would balance this mod. And no, discontinuing the idea is not an option.

[Risujin]

Plague Bringer, Human vs Human is possible but you will need major changes in the code. You're in for some major development if you're going this route. If I were you I would work on the assets now and develop the code once 1.2 is released. Timbo repeatedly breaks SVN backport patches these days.

The models or textures will need to be changed to differentiate their teams somehow. I suggest implementing generic Quake CTF style "colorable" skins so that you can support more than two teams and color them by whatever the team's color is.

I still can't believe this community's attitude towards game mods.

Haha, tell me about it.

[NiTRoX]

But the real question is, do you have the knowledge,skillz,time and resources to do this?

[Plague Bringer]

Hey Risujin, long time no talk. The only problem with waiting for 1.2 is that mod will really only start major development when the release date for 1.2 comes, and that release date is currently unknown. Personally, I don't expect 1.2 to come out until well into next year. That does give us the time to sharpen our skills and grow the dev team, though. Perhaps you're right.

NiTRoX, it's been a while. We have the time and resources, and we're gaining more knowledge and skills every day. This mod isn't going to come out soon. We're really pre-dev right now.

[NiTRoX]

<3 

[Death On Ice]

release date for 1.2 comes, and that release date is currently unknown

Haven't you heard? It's coming SOON

Sorry I was a little too harsh earlier: I would play this, primarily because I would want to play with my Trem friends.

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

I think its ok, just add some more variety I supopse, you might as well keep going.

[Risujin]

The only problem with waiting for 1.2 is that mod will really only start major development when the release date for 1.2 comes, and that release date is currently unknown.

Development of the gameplay end of 1.2 has started again with MG picking up where TJW left of before the summer. Norfenstein's even let me put in a few modifications myself. You can check out what we've got so far at the MGDev server.

[epsy]

as said before humans vs humans isn't very original, but what about the aliens vs aliens game ?

[Samurai.mac]

Humans Vs Aliens isn't original either, though.

[jr2]

Hexen, anyone?

[Steely Ann]

jr2

How's Hexen relevant to anything?  When did the topic shift to Games Made Of Pure Win?

[hitchen1]

So, will this human v human mod give both teams the SAME weapons (being that they are both humans) or will they have other weapons
another idea could be to have humans v (humanlike)aliens so you have the same movement, attacks ect but with different gun types which are ballenced, also different defences ect.
having the same team coppied with same weapons would be boring.

[Plague Bringer]

At first, we'll most likely have two cloned teams, we'll (probably) eventually work in different models for each team, along with some changed code, but in the end I don't think the teams will be too dissimilar.

[jr2]

jr2

How's Hexen relevant to anything?  When did the topic shift to Games Made Of Pure Win?

Humans Vs Aliens isn't original either, though.

Hexen, anyone?

Well... I suppose those aren't really classed as "Aliens", but why not?  IDK... I don't really remember anything about the game, I only ever heard of it from someone else, I thought it was humans vs. alien-like creatures... it not, my bad.

[Steely Ann]

jr2

If you weren't sure, a simple wiki search would've dispelled your misconceptions.  It's about medieval heroes of a sort battling against a demonic army.  Pretty nice (and old as hell) game too, and I replayed it not all that long ago.

The article includes such choice words as:
[quote author=[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexen]
The main goal of the game is the destruction of Korax, the second of a trio of demon brothers known as the Serpent Riders, who has taken over the world of Cronos. The first Serpent Rider, D'Sparil, was the final boss of Heretic and the third, Eidolon, would later appear in Hexen II.

The player may be one of three classes: a fighter, a cleric, or a mage. Each character has advantages and disadvantages, for there are variations in physical ability, weapons, and the use of artifacts in the game.

Hexen features a broad variety of enemies. Some are modified enemies from Heretic; however, most are new. Most enemies are mythology-derived creatures like the Ettin and the Centaur.
[/quote]

[jr2]

True, that... was there another game in that era that had you fighting aliens?

[Steely Ann]

Only about every second, third game released in that 'era', yes.  Gimme names to work on, sheesh.

[jr2]

Well... I think DOOM would count, but it's sort of "humanoid" aliens you're fighting with.  Quake, maybe.  *sigh* I'm going to have to play all these now.  The one I played back then was Descent.  Loved that game.  It plays nice on D2X-XL  (see my sig).

[Plague Bringer]

I love the attention the thread's getting, but you guys are really derailing this train.

[jr2]

Sorry...

Here:

Hey Risujin, long time no talk. The only problem with waiting for 1.2 is that mod will really only start major development when the release date for 1.2 comes, and that release date is currently unknown. Personally, I don't expect 1.2 to come out until well into next year. That does give us the time to sharpen our skills and grow the dev team, though. Perhaps you're right.

NiTRoX, it's been a while. We have the time and resources, and we're gaining more knowledge and skills every day. This mod isn't going to come out soon. We're really pre-dev right now.

[Plague Bringer]

No problem. As I said, we'll probably start off with exactly the same team cloned, we might differentiate the teams with different models, but that doubles our work.

[AngusYoung]

NECRO!!!!!!!!!

Okay, here's an idea... Have the exact gameplay, only base it in a major war. WWI, WWII or the war on terror. It'd be humans versus humans, only each side would have different weapons, each with a special use. Now, I know what you guys are thinking, "Why don't you just go play ET or something?" my answer is, "There isn't a game out there that has the build and defend thing going on....
Just a thought...