2 Armories are good during SD?

[Bajsefar]

I've had some sucess building up to 2 extra armouries, in ATCS with skilled people.
The whole reason they work, is that they have a backward psychiology on the aliens. ("Wtf, 3 armouries, how retarded, no use in taking them down)

The thing they forget is that the armouries is severely hindering their movement possibilities around in the human room, blocking the line of sight into the guts of the base, and making a staged defense that still has almost all the turrets covering all the 'stages'. (my base core, with reactor and nodes, always has 3 turrets covering it, as well as a lot of turrets spread out in the room to extend human dominion over the room, which makes it harder for the aliens to camp for kills just around the corner.)

While this is not really any better defense wise than the good 'ol defense corner sandwitch in ATCS, it is BY FAR better for the human freedom of movement, range of dominion... Actually controlling the whole base room helps a lot in pushing out.

Also, rants tend to kill the armoury, and then run away or die, most of the defense remains intact, and i can rebuild when they run away /die, or cramp into the corner if things get hairy, slowly retracting my defense into the corner while still safe between my semi-blocking armoury.

Of course, this demands a lot from the builder, as the whole base strenght lies in that you have the time to adapt the base even during an attack, but I like it.

It also is better in terms of teambleeding/blocking and general retardedness.

But it is far less self sufficient than the usual base.

I just get so freaking tired of the same base every damn game, and camping the turrets with your rifle because if you try to leave the turret wall, you are instantly mauled by the tyrant around the corner.

As for SD, Arms can be rebuildt during SD, turrets can not, which may help you reinforce your defenses after having pushed back that tyrant rush, even during SD.

I'm not saying this is the best, or even any good at all. But in my experience, it is by far a viable variation from the same, bland base that is always built.

Btw, I build on 100BP servers, and have been building standard bases for a long time also.

[Lava Croft]

The same bland base that is always built is always that same bland base because it works. 2 Armories does not work, and only makes it easier for said skilled players to ruin your base, since Armories dish out no damage, take up a lot of space, and provide a nice explosion when destroyed too. They are easy targets. Do not fall for this nonsense and just stick to 1 Armory.

Also, if you really feel like you want to break to monotomy of building proper bases, you can always decon the Reactor at the start of the game and move it to the entry of the Alien base. This is a sure way to have some really good fun 

[Bajsefar]

Meh, just a little experiment I've been running, since I had heard about arm walls and wondered how they worked.
So far, my ecperiences have been mixed, but the base I was talking about has proved better at some points, like pushing out and retaliating at the alien base.

The standard base is easy to build, and is tried and true. That does not mean new inventions can not work just because it has not been tried.

Then again, I'm not saying this is actually new or better at all. I just want to keep trying new things.

Edit: Lol, I prefer breaking the monotony by not making it into a pitched live-or die battle, as that tends to make some people REALLY angry. (although I love just those battles.)

Edit2: And Lava, I did not say 2 armouries, I said 3. Yes, 3.

Edit3: Btw, I know you have been building for FAR longeer time than me, I just don't want to lose the experimenting attitude, as change, and making something new is what really makes me have a good time. I try to do this without ruining it too much for the other players in my team, as a result, this base has been slowly transforming from the standard base, and will keep on doing so until it causes us to lose. At which time I will stop to reconsider, change the direction of thought, going back in the development process and so on.

[Lava Croft]

3 Armories with 100bp means 20 wasted bp. Instant lose.

[techhead]

With 3 armories, the goons will probably snipe the medi and laugh.
Also, SD is horribly broken.

[Lava Croft]

Sudden Death is not just broken, it also breaks the gameflow itself. It makes Aliens hold back until SD starts, relieving them of all motivation to do anything at all before that time, besides camp the entries to the Human base, which in turn makes the Humans camp, which in turn makes the Aliens whine about campers.

[Bajsefar]

With 3 armories, the goons will probably snipe the medi and laugh.
Also, SD is horribly broken.

Nothe that when building this base, there is no point in sniping the medi, because the goon would have to be so close it could just chomp it anyways.

3 Armories with 100bp means 20 wasted bp. Instant lose.

Not literally. :p I have seen no real difference in wins/losses when building bases 'untraditionally'. Of course, my judgement is broken. But we do win, even if the teams are balanced. (sometimes, like usual.)

Yeah, SD is broken. I prefer to die before SD, rather than have that absolutely horrible camp because you cannot afford to lose any turrets..

[Lava Croft]

Saying that you have seen games where building 3 Armories did not lead to failure is saying you know of people who got shot in the head, but did not die.

[Bajsefar]

You run out of arguments (or atleast, stop making them), you start to make broken, not-really-bringing-the-discussion-anywhere-but-flaming, ANNOYING piece of shit metaphors or that-guy-can't-be-taken-seriously jokes that are not aimed at anything else than ridiculing other people.

What the fuck was the connection between you previous statement and the discussion, other than you stating that I am wrong and you are right without giving any more arguments that hold water?

I am saying that I have myself built in SEVERAL games where building 3 armouries did, in fact not lead to our team losing. I am also saying that the base i build here apparently does not severely bring our chances of winning down, but of this, I am not sure, and it's bound to be a bit lossy since I can still perfect the idea a lot further.

I'm not saying this base is better, or any good at all- but the way you go on about it makes you sound like a pompous, arrogant, stuck up ass.






I probably shouldn't be so upset by Lava's asshattery, as it was kinda minor anyway. But damnit, I can't help it.

[Lava Croft]

Building 3 Armories is utterly retarded, and suggesting it to people is directly linked to people who ruin my games by following your fucked up advice. Stop poisoning people's minds with nonsense like this. Starting to insult me will not help you at all, it will just make you look even more out of touch with reality.

Just to explain what I said: While 3 Armories might work, 9 out of 10 times, it does not. While shooting yourself in the head might not be lethal, 9 out of 10 times, it is. I'm sorry that you could not understand it, next time I will try to use Sesame Street pictures to explain what I am trying to say.

PS: Look at the poll.

[ChaosSquirrel]

3 armouries are asking for tyrants, heck, even dretches, to smash your base. The best idea is to simply build two and make sure you can crossfire. This creates false choices (or whatever the term is) by presenting two targets, hopefully distracting the aliens long enough to kill them. This works with any structure placed semetrically to another with no major apparent disadvantages.. Besides reactors and overminds.

[Lava Croft]

Building 2 Armories is a stupid idea either. Permanently.

[Luigi1]

Kinda matters what stage the enemy is at. If there at s3 and snipe your arm, your screwed lol.

[Lava Croft]

Kinda matters what stage the enemy is at. If there at s3 and snipe your arm, your screwed lol.

If they snipe your Armory at S3, your base is flawed and your teammates fail at defending.

[Bajsefar]

You actually manage to give me rabies-like symptoms of frothing from the corners of my mouth.

[Lava Croft]

You actually manage to give me rabies-like symptoms of frothing from the corners of my mouth.

I suggest you turn off your computer and stay off the internet then.

[Bajsefar]

Or just calm down and stop this trench war? :p
Anyway, you certainly heard both my and Lava's opinions good loud enough.

[Lava Croft]

Or just calm down and stop this trench war? :p
Anyway, you certainly heard both my and Lava's opinions good loud enough.

I certainly took notice of your barrage of personal insults!

[benmachine]

YAWN.

Bajsefar, your argument would be more credible with screenshots. At the moment it sounds to me just another proof of the old "teams win games, not bases" maxim. I remember someone building a base using only barricades, and it worked amazingly - but, I later realised, only because our team held such a consistent offence and those rare few humans that did get through the offensive line got cut down before they could do any damage to anything.

[Bajsefar]

Would have posted a demo, if my demo function would work- because this would also show how the base worked, in what order i put up things... In what way they worked, if it was like you said, because of the team we have been winning sometimes.

I have tried recording demos, they do not show up in my tremulous folder where they should. I have tried searching my hard drive for them, but they are not there.

Halp plox.

You run out of arguments (or atleast, stop making them), you start to make broken, not-really-bringing-the-discussion-anywhere-but-flaming, ANNOYING piece of shit metaphors or that-guy-can't-be-taken-seriously jokes that are not aimed at anything else than ridiculing other people.

What the fuck was the connection between you previous statement and the discussion, other than you stating that I am wrong and you are right without giving any more arguments that hold water?

I am saying that I have myself built in SEVERAL games where building 3 armouries did, in fact not lead to our team losing. I am also saying that the base i build here apparently does not severely bring our chances of winning down, but of this, I am not sure, and it's bound to be a bit lossy since I can still perfect the idea a lot further.

I'm not saying this base is better, or any good at all- but the way you go on about it makes you sound like a pompous, arrogant, stuck up ass.






I probably shouldn't be so upset by Lava's asshattery, as it was kinda minor anyway. But damnit, I can't help it.

<Apology>

[Paradox]

Yea, lets build an arm right in the way so it blocks rants and retreating humans, as well as wasting bp.

2nd arms are good, when used properly.

[Lava Croft]

benmachine is spot on. A lot of people think the bases they build are good, because they last. However, they usually do not take into account the performance of their teammates. Just like it's very easy to have a completely retarded base and win the game with ease, it's also very easy to build the best base in the world and lose hard, just because the opposing team is a lot better.

[Revan]

Lava take an example from tremulous:
What happens to the guy who buys a flamer? he toasts himself unless he is good.

[ChaosSquirrel]

Not necessarily. I killed a rant with just a shotgun. Five shots. An armory is the strongest tool in the human arsenal. It may seem like it detracts from available BP, but it allows humans to fit out quicker/easier and also later in the game. Trust me, nothing sucks like knowing of a rant rush and not being able to buy a luci because there are too many feeders in the way with their "AWESOME 70 CR!!!!" and losing the base because of it.

[Lava Croft]

Lava take an example from tremulous:
What happens to the guy who buys a flamer? he toasts himself unless he is good.

You don't have to be good at Tremulous to not toast yourself with the flamer. I think your definition of good needs a little bit of work.

[ChaosSquirrel]

Back on the point, the game is a team/psychology game. If two arms make your team bolder and brash, don't. If they provide an feeling of security and power, yes. Also, if it forces the other team to hesitate, do it. I DON'T CARE IF YOU BLOW YOURSELF UP! It will still slow down the aliens! I DON'T CARE IF YOU HIDE ON THE ROOF! It will freak out the humans! The goal is to win. The only strategy that is wrong is feeding. Even camping is justified at times (and jet spammers distract the aliens. Trust me).

[Revan]

(and jet spammers distract the aliens. Trust me).

This should be obvious to anyone with the foggiest notion of trem but when ever it happens the aliens complain (for good reason: they cant put as much pressure on humans) and the humans complain even more (partially for good reason: they don't have as many campers/defenders

You don't have to be good at Tremulous to not toast yourself with the flamer. I think your definition of good needs a little bit of work.

It took me several minutes to figure out your screwy grammar, but in what way does someone not have to be good to not toast themselves? It is almost this:
Bad with flamer barbecues himself fairly quick
Good with flamer barbecues himself in the alien base surrounded by a thousand dretches and killing the eggs at the same time.

[Her3tic]

It's going a little bit Off-Topic... Isn't?

[Dracone]

If every single new topic had its own new thread, you'd see "new" down the whole page every day, all new topics or old ones that were kept on topic.

[ChaosSquirrel]

(and jet spammers distract the aliens. Trust me).

This should be obvious to anyone with the foggiest notion of trem but when ever it happens the aliens complain (for good reason: they cant put as much pressure on humans) and the humans complain even more (partially for good reason: they don't have as many campers/defenders

You don't have to be good at Tremulous to not toast yourself with the flamer. I think your definition of good needs a little bit of work.

It took me several minutes to figure out your screwy grammar, but in what way does someone not have to be good to not toast themselves? It is almost this:
Bad with flamer barbecues himself fairly quick
Good with flamer barbecues himself in the alien base surrounded by a thousand dretches and killing the eggs at the same time.

No, Jetspammers usually camp/defend, and sometime accidentally (Aliens too busy to hit ground targets)

Also, a good flamer can toast the alien base and *NOT* himself. But it takes work, patience, and timing. So I use shotguns!