Station 15 Clean-up

[Survivor]

Lava, maps should be judged on version of submission. That means the map they submitted on time. Else they could circumvent the timelimit.

[Lava Croft]

Lava, maps should be judged on version of submission. That means the map they submitted on time. Else they could circumvent the timelimit.

Too bad, I am not going to review unfinished products. That is useless since the product is due to change.

[Supertanker]

I was kind of wondering about that. I submited beta1 intending and knowing fully well that it was the map to be reviewed. Think of it as a seperate 'product' than the beta2, because beta2 is going to have a lot different when I'm done with it.

[Lava Croft]

I was kind of wondering about that. I submited beta1 intending and knowing fully well that it was the map to be reviewed. Think of it as a seperate 'product' than the beta2, because beta2 is going to have a lot different when I'm done with it.

Still I am free to decide I will not review an unfinished product.

[==Troy==]

It is impossible to finish a project... only abandon it.

[Lava Croft]

It is impossible to finish a project... only abandon it.

Nonsense. If you cannot finish a project you should not have started it in the first place. Not finishing a project just means you have a lack of discipline.

[gareth]

well lava since you decided to ignore the rules of the contest you actually judged a different map to what survivor did, you did that already with citadel. im tempted to whine about how the contest was pretty shittily run but i guess i will just not enter the next one.

 

[Lava Croft]

well lava since you decided to ignore the rules of the contest you actually judged a different map to what survivor did, you did that already with citadel. im tempted to whine about how the contest was pretty shittily run but i guess i will just not enter the next one.

 

Stop entering unfinished products into a mapping competition. This makes it not a mapping competition, but a mapping PREview competition, since after you got your score, you can completely redo the map, effectively rendering the reviewer's work completely useless. As a second note, I don't think mediocre maps like Citadel will be missed from any contest.

[TRaK]

Lava, your stance is so hypocritical it's ridiculous. Either follow the rules of the competition or don't judge in it. Your refusal to follow the judging rules only makes this competition lose more of the little credibilty it had in the first place.

I think this competition was a great idea, and it did produce some interesting maps. But if you make the judging process look biased and preferential, there might as well be no competition at all.

[Supertanker]

Oh for Pete's sake just stop arguing.

@survivor, if you have to take the damn map out of the compo please, do so, I don't care. I don't want to see yet another flame war. I am sick of them.

[Survivor]

Lava, you agreed to the rules at the start of the competition which includes this bit.

Anyone can enter his submission any time before the closing date.
Submit either by pm a download link to either your .pk3 with the .map included or to both your .pk3 and .map separate. If you cannot do this you can pm me to obtain my mail address and send me the files and I will take care of distributing it to the other judges.
Must be in working .pk3 form.
.map must be included.
If judging you are exempted from judging your own submission.
Once you’re map has been submitted it can be released to the public. Any changes afterwards however won’t be accepted. As noted testers are exempt from belonging to the public but should all be mentioned in the readme.

So you actually don't have any ground for your opinion if it does or does not belong in this competition. Unfinished maps can be accepted, but being unfinished they can also be expected to get lower grades. What a mapper does to his map after it is submitted is not our business except for the fact it can't be submitted as a replacement.

The goal of this competition is not for the reviewer's ego, it is to promote the creation of interesting maps by giving a reward. If our reviews help out in improving a map after its submittal, all the better.
I am not going to take this map out of the competition for you since as gareth already stated his map also isn't 'finished' and you reviewed that one. However, he isn't going to do any more work on it.

Fact remains I had to get on the asses of all 3 judges 3 weeks after the set end-date to remind them they were supposed to do reviews.

So get down from that cloud and start acting a bit less bitter to people who actually did something for the community.

[Lava Croft]

I have reviewed the maps that were 'final' or 'abandonded'. Solid products, that, whatever their qualities may be, are not due to change anymore.
The reason I have not reviewed the maps right away is that I wanted to give said mappers some more time, so I could review a product that would be 'final' or 'abandonded', and present the community with reviews that actually mean something, since the subjects are maps they might actually play for a prolonged period, instead of beta versions that pass by rather quickly, only to be forgotten even faster. This gives both the mappers and their work the honour it deserves, and the community, which includes people who might arrive to these forums at a later date, a fair and informational personal view on a map they might actually play on a server.

Concerning Citadel specifically, I have reviewed this version of gareth's map, which is the final version, according to gareth's own comments in the thread. Therefore, your assumption that I reviewed a non-'final' or 'abandonded' version is incorrect.

I see no reason for you to fling insults or accusations at me in a public forum thread, while all you had to do was contact
me on IRC in or via any other means in a polite manner, and you might have saved yourself some thinking, and could have spent that time on sleeping.

Wether you want to do something with the reviews in relation to the competition is all up to you, I have written the reviews and given the maps the coverage they deserve, with the exception of supertanker's map, which will be reviewed at a later date.

[EDIT] Typos :X

[Lava Croft]

I will commit the crime of double-posting to add that I am very, very bad with rules and restrictions. I know this is a paradox, but I care not for the competition, nor for the mappers, I only care for the maps. This competition fueled people's fire for making maps, I and I am fairly certain any future competitions will do the same.

[Survivor]

Fact remains you agreed to judge in the competition. Writing reviews could be done outside of that. But when you are within the competition you have to follow the rules. There was a generous period for them to map but also to adhere to. By any purpose saying I'll review it when it's finished simply means you are changing the rules to your own will.
As for the citadel beta version, now you also include the term abandonded. Fine by me but be more clear next time.
And why I do it here is since you also started posting against him, stating personal views above rules. And the fact that I came on IRC and flung an insult is the fact that this shows very little respect for supertanker, who took some of the advice from my review for his later version(s). Because in essence what use is a map review from experienced tremmers and mappers when you aren't allowed to do anything with it after the fact?
I am just annoyed by your viewpoint which is more of a hindrance to the mappers than a blessing. Scaring them off with such an attitude just doesn't help.

[Lava Croft]

So what you basically mean is not a 'Mapping Competition' with reviews of maps, but more of a disguided 'Class' in mapping, where mappers can give their unfinished products to more experienced mappers, at which point they will review the unfinished maps and the mappers might find some useful advice in the review and put it to use. Maybe I should have asked you more about this 'competition', this was my mistake.

I only used the term 'abandonded' for maps that will not recieve any more attention from their creators, basically making them 'final'. I only used two different terms so that you would not pin me down on it.
The reason gareth got a small personal attack is because he seems to care more about his ego than about his map, something that will be met with a ferm dose of poison from my side.

Accusing me of showing very little respect for supertanker is totally incorrect, since I have already spent time on the map, and also spoke quite a bit to him about his map, and tried help solving some of the tedious problems he is enountering with it. By not reviewing the map and giving him advice on IRC and time to work more on the map, I actually have respected supertanker and the work that went into and will go into his map, rather than disrespecting him and his work.

I will not waste anymore words on this, I will steer clear of any 'official' role in any kind of competition held here, since it seems it's more about mappers than about maps, and I do not care the least about mappers. I would only advice to not call it a 'Mapping Competition' next time around.

[EDIT] moar typos

[Survivor]

We'll waste no more words on it then. I assume you will finish your role in this competition and not participate as a judge in the new one? Or are you withdrawing from both.

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

holy...shit.

Play by the rules.
This time around, they may be flawed, but you can influence them next time around.

[Lava Croft]

We'll waste no more words on it then. I assume you will finish your role in this competition and not participate as a judge in the new one? Or are you withdrawing from both.

I wait for supertanker to finish/abandon his Station 15 and will write the review then.