Author Topic: A call for a public development roadmap  (Read 16995 times)

FooBar

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A call for a public development roadmap
« on: March 12, 2008, 07:15:24 pm »
Hey, all.  FooBar here.

It's been quite a while since I've been active on the boards, the servers, or the development community.  Events in my life took precedence and I've had to spend my time on other things.  Sadly, this post doesn't mark a return to the Tremulous community, as I will continue to have other priorities for the foreseeable future.

Recently I've been thinking a little bit about Tremulous development and the uncertainty surrounding the release date of 1.2.  Now, I will be the first to argue against hard deadlines.  In my opinion, "when it's done" is a perfectly acceptable timeframe for a project, especially an open-source project that is primarily developed by volunteers.  This post is not a call for a deadline of any kind.

Instead, this is a call for a road map.  Although many software projects do not have hard deadlines, most responsibly administered projects DO have a road map.  By "road map", I mean a list of future version numbers with specific goals, improvements, and new features planned to be implemented for each version.  The point of such a road map is to provide users with a sense of progress and developers with a sense of direction and limitation.  In any project there is a strong tendency to say "just one more feature" over and over, and the next release never comes.  The road map avoids this by assigning release points based on the implementation of specific features, rather than a general sense of "done-ness".

In addition, a road map can foster greater community involvement.  There are many developers who would gladly contribute to Tremulous, if they knew what improvements were desired.  With a road map, it is easy to see what is finished, what is being worked on (and by whom), and what still needs to be done.

I am not in communication with the current Dev Team, but I have looked on the forums and web sites and not seen a formal road map publicly posted anywhere.  If a private road map does exist, I would like to respectfully suggest that it be made public, preferably in a wiki or other collaborative environment.  If a road map does not exist, then I respectfully suggest that the creation of one should take priority over all other development work.

Tremulous needs a sense of direction.  The community is floundering and stagnant.  You are lost.  I appeal to the development team to set out a road map for versions 1.2, 1.3, and beyond... and then stick to it.

We all know that 1.2 will be out "when it's done".  It is time to define precisely what "done" means.

Revan

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 08:19:01 pm »
thank you

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Taiyo.uk

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2008, 09:24:49 pm »
"done" is not static. 1.1.0 was "done" back in 2006, but now it looks pretty rough compared to the current revisions out there.

+ OPTIMUS +

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 12:02:23 am »
it's up to the devs mood whether if they want to publish their plans or not.

I'd like to know about new features ofc, maybe many of the forum members could help with it also, but maybe they don'T want everyone to be included with different "stupid" ideas. as seen on many of the forum threads here.

however, a non-forum based plan would be welcomed, what shouldn't be interactive but only a motivator to the audience and the devteam itself about what to expect and when.
success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm

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techhead

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2008, 12:32:06 am »
We all know that 1.2 will be out "when it's done".  It is time to define precisely what "done" means.
Quote. For. Truth.

v1.1.0 was done then.
Currently v1.1.0-1063 is done.
We are all just wondering what v1.2.0-X needs to have in order to call v1.2.0-X done.

(Disclaimer, I made up my own numeration system, tell me if you want it amended)
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David

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 12:36:49 am »
The alien "weapons" that have already been posted here.
The hud kev is supposedly coding.
Norf's balance changes.
There are some new weapon models floating around, no idea what stage there at.

That's all the big things I can think of off right now.  Sure I missed something though.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
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techhead

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 12:43:07 am »
Off the top of my head, also:
New official maps, seen only in screenshots and teasers, unless you are a TremDev.
[Cancelled] Voice-chat, as Dolby 'disappeared'
[likely Cancelled] Mini-map functions
And last but not least...
(Seemingly...) Endless bugs to squash.
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FooBar

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 01:10:27 am »
Thanks for the info...

However, what I was getting at is that there should be a formal, official list of exactly what does and does not need to be done before the 1.2 release.  This includes a determination of which bugs are critical enough to be fixed "right now" and which can wait for 1.3.

The list should be a reference and posted somewhere public with version tracking (i.e. a wiki), and updated as progress is made and the various tasks are completed.

Eventually, when the majority of the required tasks are complete, a release timeline should be written, including dates for components freezing, alpha and beta releases, and the final release.  However (as I said before) there's no need to implement a schedule at the moment; a task-based roadmap should be the first step.





blood2.0

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 01:37:39 am »
yes think about all the time spent on making bots.  If that time went to making 1.2 it would be out by now.  Unfortunately people don't know what to work on so there time is spent on less important things like making  bots follow you.  In the long run a "road map" will make 1.2 come out a lot faster.

kevlarman

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 01:52:24 am »
[Cancelled] Voice-chat, as Dolby 'disappeared'
wrong
Quote
[likely Cancelled] Mini-map functions
this was never planned afaik
Quote
(Seemingly...) Endless bugs to squash.
yup.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
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Odin

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 01:57:27 am »
True Tremmers are content with 1.1.0 until 1.2.0 is done. The devs can release 1.2 whenever they want, I'm fine with 1.1.0 at the moment(and have been since 2006).

Stannum

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 04:12:15 am »
The alien "weapons" that have already been posted here.
There are some new weapon models floating around, no idea what stage there at.

Alien inview weapon models are coming in 1.2
The human weapon upgrades won't. That would take too much time. Maybe 1.3.
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Death On Ice

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 04:27:55 am »
But they look so cool :(

Especially the shotgun.

Zero Ame

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TRaK

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 06:29:05 am »
What I would like to know is if any of the custom maps out there will be packaged with 1.2. Official word on which maps have "made the cut" would be nice, if not absolutely necessary :)

Undeference

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2008, 11:33:42 am »
[likely Cancelled] Mini-map functions
Whoa! That was just an idea I was playing with, hardly all that important. I'm not sure why people think that became a "TODO" for 1.2 (or at all).

I recall an interview a while back (May 2007?) that had something close and that is public. Thanks to an absurdly large browser history, here's the URL
http://www.jeuxlinux.fr/article_print-163.html
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Plague Bringer

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2008, 02:27:46 pm »
[quote="kevvy; I know a guy named kevvy, he rides a bike and thinks its a car. there's small-town life for you"
Quote
(Seemingly...) Endless bugs to squash.
yup.
[/quote]
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benmachine

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2008, 11:27:34 pm »
First of all, hi FooBar :D I missed you a bit

Secondly, much of what you said seemed reasonable until...
The community is floundering and stagnant.  You are lost.
I can only say in response to this that you are wrong. It isn't, and we aren't. Tremulous' community has issues, but to be honest any group our size with our age distribution and interests often does. In terms of numbers at least, Tremulous is still going strong. I appreciate that a lot of people have felt left in the dark about Tremulous development, but frankly 1.1 is quite enough for me for the time being. I am in no rush, and nor should be anyone else, imo.

In another year when player counts have halved, then you may make dramatic statements about stagnation or direction, but right now there are really no problems here.
benmachine

Bajsefar

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Foresight
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 12:07:16 am »
Right now, seeing the 'leaked' picture/video/whatever directory containing the choppers and whatnot made me horny enough to think 1.2 is done by the end of the week.
Which is now...
WILL YOU DISSAPOINT ME, OR AM I TRULY A PROPHET?

Rocinante

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 01:57:18 am »
Hate to disappoint you, but.. no, scratch that.  I don't really mind at all.
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David

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2008, 06:15:00 pm »
yes think about all the time spent on making bots.  If that time went to making 1.2 it would be out by now.  Unfortunately people don't know what to work on so there time is spent on less important things like making  bots follow you.  In the long run a "road map" will make 1.2 come out a lot faster.

lol?

Right now, seeing the 'leaked' picture/video/whatever directory containing the choppers and whatnot made me horny enough to think 1.2 is done by the end of the week.
Which is now...
WILL YOU DISSAPOINT ME, OR AM I TRULY A PROPHET?

What leaked stuff?  Most of it was published by the devs...
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Knocks

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2008, 09:15:57 pm »
would be nice to see current progress but its alright.
To knock or not to knock.. that is the question

player1

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To Whom Does the Player Address His Concerns?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2008, 06:01:49 am »
How about a vague description of who "the devs" currently are, and shortlist of stuff they think they are shooting for? Just along the lines of So-and-So is currently trying to do such-and-such. Just maybe as a news item on the front page. So we know who to thank, and pray for. Or not...

I can see that no-one would want to promise too much too soon, but the fans like to have a small tidbit of refreshment every great once in a while. Humbly submitted, One Player.



Bajsefar

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Re: Read me!
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2008, 10:06:11 am »
Right now, seeing the 'leaked' picture/video/whatever directory containing the choppers and whatnot made me horny enough to think 1.2 is done by the end of the week.
Which is now...
WILL YOU DISSAPOINT ME, OR AM I TRULY A PROPHET?

What leaked stuff?  Most of it was published by the devs...

I said ''leaked''.

Lava Croft

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2008, 10:22:38 am »
I think you should sue Timbo and his band of vagabonds if they do not comply with your demands.

pharo212

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2008, 01:55:33 pm »
I have to agree with FooBar, a public development road map will speed up the development process.

David

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2008, 05:55:02 pm »
I have to agree with FooBar, a public development road map will speed up the development process.

Care to back that up?
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Death On Ice

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2008, 06:17:44 pm »
I have to agree with FooBar, a public development road map will speed up the development process.

Care to back that up?
It will indeed slow it down, but those who can make necessary contributions can look and see 'Oh, hey! They need X for X! I can help!'. Not sure if this is what the devs want, as they have a private team, but no doubt it would be good for the process.

It will slow down the process, unless they get someone dedicated to report everything.

Amanieu

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2008, 02:37:42 am »
Or people could just go on the bugzilla and fix all the bugs in there. I'm sure that would help a lot.
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techhead

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Re: A call for a public development roadmap
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2008, 03:05:22 am »
If someone fixed most of the unsolved bugs in bugzilla in a short period of time, they would probably get invited to join the Dev team. Then, we only hear from them occasionally, one post every couple of days or so.
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