trigger_multiple

[sSopris]

I would like some elaboration on the trigger_multiple entity. In the wiki it says "The all purpose trigger." Well kudos for whoever can figure out the trigger from that but I cannot. Therefore I would highly appreciate some elaboration. To help you elaborate, what I need is an entity to detect if there is just one player in it or two...if there are two, they'd be on different teams. My first impressions of the trigger_multiple was that it could perform multiple triggers at once, such as trigger_class and trigger_equipment. Anyway, I appreciate the help I hope to get.

[==Troy==]

If you read the description table, the answer is quite obvious :

target : the targetname of a target which the trigger will trigger.
targetname : a name of the trigger, so that it can be triggered by other triggers.
wait : a time in seconds to limit of how often the trigger can be triggered (not more than once a second, once 3 seconds etc.)
random : a random change in the above value.

[Survivor]

trigger multiple is the simplest trigger combined with the trigger texture from common. If any player enters it it triggers its targets within the constraints of the time limit. You are looking at deep mechanics. Someone did an entire paper on it but I don't have it at hand now. Supposedly you are trying an 'and' trigger.

Just watch here
http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36558

Probably won't take long.

[Amtie]

Are there any IF triggers? Like IF player has > 200 credits Then trigger?

[Survivor]

Ah yes, now that I see it it has the same problem as when i first tried some of its ideas in trem. Tremulous removed the shooter entities so we can't build the gates needed.
And amt, there are no credit triggers so no.

[Amtie]

The credit trigger was an example. I've seen item triggers, but i haven't gotten them to work.

[==Troy==]

I am still working on a patch which increases the capabilities of the mappers to work with things, (Advanced Map Patch), if you want something to be implemented into it, request the feature in the thread (mods section). )

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7206.msg117520#msg117520

[sSopris]

Ahhh, thank you guys. So there are no and triggers or something? Like if this AND this then do this?

[Survivor]

Not until a shooter entity is implemented for crude works, and I'd much rather have real if,and,or,xor triggers because the crude way gets unwieldy quickly, just take a look at skOre's electronics manual.

[==Troy==]

AMP patch does have AND implementation. (not the very usual one, but well)
Proper logical operations are in the works as well.

[Amtie]

I am still working on a patch which increases the capabilities of the mappers to work with things, (Advanced Map Patch), if you want something to be implemented into it, request the feature in the thread (mods section). )

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7206.msg117520#msg117520

I've read the thread in this forum, but i haven't understood much of it, since its full of jargon i can't understand. I like whats going on though, from what i understood.

[==Troy==]

you need this : http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7220.0 << thread.

[sSopris]

you need this : http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7220.0 << thread.

Nice! The links take me to text files. What do I do with these?

[==Troy==]

Patch is a source code, which is required due to GPL, you can ignore that unless you want to compile the qvm yourself.

definition file replaces the standard definition file of Radiant.

QVM is used when you setup a server. Your map will not run without the QVM and there are a few guides in the technical/server boards on how to create a server with one.

[Taiyo.uk]

and I'd much rather have real if,and,or,xor triggers

* Taiyo.uk wants these too.

[CreatureofHell]

Taiyo wants everything other people have  . Mainly pants because he seems o run out of them quickly for some reason  ...

[Taiyo.uk]

Heh, nobody has these triggers yet - I don't think they're implemented. Many mappers have expressed interest in logic (AND/OR/XOR/NOT) triggers to implement more complex scripted gameplay, namely for objective-based maps.

...and the pants thing, that's Ingar's fault at the moment.

[Lava Croft]

Sadly, adding new triggers will not make people create better maps. Actually, it might make them focus even less on the construction of their map, because they have omg awesome trigger madness. As long as people have trouble creating compelling maps with the tools available, adding more functionality serves no purpose, yet.

[==Troy==]

There are many ways of achieving the same result. Quantity proved to be the most effective one for the most of the times. You cannot expect a newbie mapper to make a decent map, but I am more than sure that most of the newbie mappers will start from some crazy trigger mess, to compensate their low skills by some novelty in the map. Widening their abilities will increase the amount of mappers and their willingness to create maps, and hence increase the amount of skilled mappers in the future.

I am in no doubt that you will be able to stand a few more newbie maps in the hopes that soon their authors will get the skills required. A good example of that will be brain and face.

Moreover, I am personally tired of the maps without tweaks. Ok, it can look good, play good, but after 500-5000 games you just repeat yourself, always, and just a new map takes 5-10 games to kill all the exitment you get from it. Yes, my attention span is THAT short, it should really take much shorter to get bored.

[Survivor]

Sadly, adding new triggers will not make people create better maps. Actually, it might make them focus even less on the construction of their map, because they have omg awesome trigger madness. As long as people have trouble creating compelling maps with the tools available, adding more functionality serves no purpose, yet.

It will expand the abilities of the experienced mappers to make interesting maps though. Merely focusing on what the lowest common denominator can do isn't always wise.

[Lava Croft]

Sadly, adding new triggers will not make people create better maps. Actually, it might make them focus even less on the construction of their map, because they have omg awesome trigger madness. As long as people have trouble creating compelling maps with the tools available, adding more functionality serves no purpose, yet.

It will expand the abilities of the experienced mappers to make interesting maps though. Merely focusing on what the lowest common denominator can do isn't always wise.

That doesn't take away the fear I have of even more shittier maps, because people will try and hide behind their fantastic trigger contraptions. Also, of those experienced mappers you talk about, only 1 has released a map which is both pretty and playable. All of the other maps created by experienced mappers, including my own, are not suitable to (for example) include in a possible next release of Tremulous. No fancy triggers ain't going to change that.

[Amtie]

Floor and wall maps are quite boring after a while (atcs, nexus, etc). With satisfactory interactivity, you can create much better maps, such as different ways to attack bases using teleports or target_pushes, etc.

[Lava Croft]

Floor and wall maps are quite boring after a while (atcs, nexus, etc). With satisfactory interactivity, you can create much better maps, such as different ways to attack bases using teleports or target_pushes, etc.

Why don't you first try to make a map that looks half as good as Nexus6 before calling them 'quite boring after a while'. As long as you fail at basic mapping, no 5000 new triggers are going to make your maps any better.

[==Troy==]

Lara, read and possibly reply to my post.



Its not the matter of triggers really. it is the case of WHEN the newbies dare to release their maps. And taunting "release at least half decent Nexus-clone" is quite dissapointing, you are conservative, which really shows.

And having a newbie to play with triggers will get you the maps which will be using them to the full potential in the future, on the very least it will give him some ideas and experience on working with them. You are whining that the current triggers are not used to full potential, you are whining that newbies make a trigger mess. Sorry, how can you jump from newbie in triggers to super-leet-pro? If take a closer look, most of our current "top maps" are not using anything more complicated than a trigger - door.

[Lava Croft]

I'll say it again, triggers do not make a map, architecture does. If you need certain special triggers to make your map interesting, you should look at yourself and find out what you are doing wrong. If people still fail at making maps that look half as decent as ATCS and are not nearly as fun to play, no trigger will help them. Ever.

I'll not even mention the popularity of the few maps that do make use of triggers different than a door.

[Survivor]

We know most custom maps get avoided like hell unless they're what the community finds 'fun' maps. But mappers which make crap brushwork will make crap triggerwork, how's that any different in the amount. Triggers are in most cases harder to get working at all than brushwork anyway, so it might even reduce the amount of lousy maps.

[Taiyo.uk]

Any additional features added to the engine will be available to both the crap and the good mappers. I don't think that a fear of n00b maps is reason to deny good mappers potentially very useful features. A n00b mapper will produce n00b maps irrespective of the choice of triggers to spam.

[Amtie]

Why don't you first try to make a map that looks half as good as Nexus6 before calling them 'quite boring after a while'. As long as you fail at basic mapping, no 5000 new triggers are going to make your maps any better.

Without the target_pushes in push/rotcannon, i don't think it'd be half as fun or playable. It's a great map, with loads of servers playing it. And it uses triggers.

[n.o.s.brain]

I think what lava is worried about is that people who otherwise would be working on improving their brushwork could get instead caught up trying to make a "l33t" trigger mess.  however, this should not stop pro mappers from having more tools with which to make their maps better.

[Lava Croft]

We know most custom maps get avoided like hell unless they're what the community finds 'fun' maps. But mappers which make crap brushwork will make crap triggerwork, how's that any different in the amount. Triggers are in most cases harder to get working at all than brushwork anyway, so it might even reduce the amount of lousy maps.

"But having more triggers will automagically make my boxmap awesome."

Why don't you first try to make a map that looks half as good as Nexus6 before calling them 'quite boring after a while'. As long as you fail at basic mapping, no 5000 new triggers are going to make your maps any better.

Without the target_pushes in push/rotcannon, i don't think it'd be half as fun or playable. It's a great map, with loads of servers playing it. And it uses triggers.

Rotcannon is a perfect example of the pure shit I envision.

I think what lava is worried about is that people who otherwise would be working on improving their brushwork could get instead caught up trying to make a "l33t" trigger mess.  however, this should not stop pro mappers from having more tools with which to make their maps better.

Where are those pro mappers of yours? Where are their maps?