Author Topic: public maptest: pulse - BETA 2  (Read 10011 times)

soubok

  • Posts: 81
  • Turrets: +6/-0
    • http://soubok.googlepages.com/
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« on: June 06, 2006, 07:06:39 pm »
Hello,
the BETA 2 version of my map "pulse" is released.



You can download the .pk3 file here

----
KNOWN ISSUES:
- fps: I am working on map optimizations.
- lights: some places are too dark, I will try to find a good brightness level for the map.
- start points: I will modify them in the BETA 3, any suggestions are wellcome.
 soubok -

Ksempac

  • Posts: 261
  • Turrets: +1/-1
    • http://www.ksempac.info/blog
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2006, 09:37:16 pm »
Yeah \o/ since the first game, i was waiting for this beta 2 !

I m gonna test it right now :)

EDIT : Ok i played the map alone for 25 min...and its fantastic :)

The Good Points :
- The ambient lights are far better
- The water tank is awesome ! Its even better than what i imagined when i gave you some ideas for it ! :D
- It s far easier to move under the pathway, even for humans...they arent blocked anymore...they are just embarassed a bit, so they walk slower as they should. Perfect :)
- The command center with the lock systems work without problems...although i thought at the beginning that Red (Dont walk color) was locked and Green was unlocked. Then i checked and saw that it was the opposite.
- I love the windows that allow us to see the outside...they look great (the glass in the bedroom too ! i dunno if it was there before but its nice)
- Good idea to put some water at the bottom of the dangerous ladder in the human base...i checked..no HP lost when falling ;)

The Bad point (yes there is one, and that's a big one) :
- I saw your blue signs with arrows...but i cant read them ! they are all blurry, as if someone put some paint at random. So i m still lost in the map till i manage to read the signs (checked 1024*768 and 800*600...maybe i should try different qualities of textures ?)

Now i m waiting for someone to put it on his serv to try a real game (megabite ? ;p)

EDIT 2 : I checked the signs : you can actually read it when Texture Details are Set to High
I set my details to low to ensure a good framerate in all the situations.
The signs look great, even when you cant read them (you can guess why they are here), so you should keep them. But maybe you could add some other signs that arent texture-dependants : a geometric shape, or a 3D object, that would allow anybody to know what they mean, regardless of their settings
BTW...what are the strange green things that you put in many places ? They look quite ugly on the blue walls and cellings
url=http://tremulous.net][/url]

Stof

  • Posts: 1343
  • Turrets: +1/-1
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2006, 10:53:29 pm »
Good points have been done so I'll focus on the bad points :wink:

- Exterior damage system is buggy, I built a telenode "outside", and once it was finished, I didn't take any more damage myself, the telenode would get damaged normaly and once killed, I could be killed too.
- Wall decorations are eeeevvvilll, if possible, make it so that humans do not need to avoid the walls if they want to move without problems. It annoys more than anything else during a fight.
- Original human spawn location is a little too gimmicky for my own taste. And of course, we'll have to test it ingame to see if it is balanced.
- Humans can build turrets in the passages below the floor. Not sure it is a good idea. I bet aliens can do the same for acid tubes. If that's the case, I hope they don't fire through the ground :)
- Reactor sound is Ugly
- I've fallen inside one of the reactor as a human and I was stuck there
- Water tank is funny, too bad I get spammed by lots of error messages when I stay underwater for too long ( as a human, and it's more of a tremulous bug ) and it's funny, aliens can't drow ( dretches can't anyway )
- There's some kind of brown grate near the water tank which is made of a few cylinders. This is bad because movement is very weird when walking on top of it. Add an invisible collision mesh if possible
- As for the annoying wall decorations, in some vent ducts, there are lights on the side which block movement
- And now, one advantage of the solid decorations :D, above the water tank there's a broken stairs going to the upper floor. Well you can walk on the lights on the wall and the broken stair isn't a problem anymore ;)
- Humans cannot kill the aliens at stage 1, not sure this is a good thing since it means humans have a really good reason to camp their base until stage 2
- The red markers on the passages under the ground make it difficult to move as an alien
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Survivor

  • Posts: 1660
  • Turrets: +164/-159
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2006, 11:02:23 pm »
Most points will be touched upon by other people. I only have cosmetic ones.

Z-fighting of blue wall decoration near alien base.
Can walk through surveillance screens, might be intentional if they are holographic or something. Also when under a certain angle one screen shows the sun and not the alien base.
There's also some ugly shadow just behind where you spawn as a spectator.

Talk about gameplay once we've had some :)
I’m busy. I’ll ignore you later.

Basilisco

  • Posts: 592
  • Turrets: +24/-5
    • http://wilhelmrahn.googlepages.com/
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 12:06:46 am »
Hi, just played like 45 minutes as alien. AND

The map looks nice, but i actually liked the rock/sand texture of beta 1. It looked more orange, more "martian".

Looks:

Needs better texturing work. The spinning texture doesn't cover all the thing at once, but just a few squares. and it makes it look like a disco sphere.


This was in spectator mode, maybe you could hide it. not esential but it looks kinda unfinished if left there.


The ugly shadow someone mentioned. I guess u were too lazy to work on it because its just a beta :), its ok.


The signs, blurry (at 640X480), walking near-er works though :P


Now, some glitches and detail:

Not good at all to ready records if you ask me. Try to change that camera


I was a granget, and theres no way to get out that hole without evolving.
You could take that small hole, or put a little ramp to the right (of the picture)


I found that elevator like after 25 minutes of walkkin around (and it was by mistake. you could put a sign that say "ELEVATOR". Or maybe change the textures to make it pop up.


Fun fact: you can get squished by the elevator easily. So please, put a sound when going down and for the button after activation.


I was on the spinning things, and hhm.. it was fun! (You shouldn't allow the access because.. (read below)


I built an egg right above the hole, and after spawning as dretch i fell below that spinning stuff. and didn't die. (useful for hiding there in suddendeath and pwn humans. AND you can leave the hole by wallwalking and not dying either.


And the worst thing ever, you can't getout the water tank!! (I was a goon, but this is true with grangers, tyrants and marauder with no skills.


Sorry for the long post.
I'll write more about some other things later. I have classes >.<

KorJax

  • Posts: 119
  • Turrets: +0/-0
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2006, 01:39:08 am »
Heh, nice chat comments  :D


Looks like it still needs some bug fixing ;)


I still stand by my motion that the outside could have some more involvement mid+late game, almost as an alternate path to base area's, and/or other landing pads.  You know, somthing like the tunnels in Tremor, except above ground and alot sweeter+cooler+dangerous  :wink:

And that the landing pad realistically should be alot closer to the base.


This is assumign you havent done some of this already :)

Basilisco

  • Posts: 592
  • Turrets: +24/-5
    • http://wilhelmrahn.googlepages.com/
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 03:51:28 am »
Quote from: "Stof"
- Humans cannot kill the aliens at stage 1, not sure this is a good thing since it means humans have a really good reason to camp their base until stage 2


If you mean you can't kill aliens, because you can't get to that one egg (the only one) you are wrong

You can use those shelve edges as stairs

Now, a funny graphic to make it clear


Stof

  • Posts: 1343
  • Turrets: +1/-1
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2006, 09:02:12 am »
I stand corrected on that point but maybe it should be made more obvious.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

[db@]Megabite

  • Posts: 613
  • Turrets: +3/-0
    • http://www.tremulous.info
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2006, 12:45:26 pm »
Okay...

I have a download mirror up at http://tremulous.megavoid.de and the map is running on #db@ Derelict.

I have this mapcycle now, hopefully fixing the svar changes for the other maps:
Code: [Select]
rotation1
{
  derelictb-beta02
  gloom2beta2
  meep_b1
  pulse_70
  {
    set g_humanBuildPoints 100
    set g_humanMaxStage 2
    set g_humanStage2Threshold 50
    set g_humanStage3Threshold 100
    set g_alienBuildPoints 100
    set g_alienMaxStage 2
    set g_alienStage2Threshold 50
    set g_alienStage3Threshold 100
    set g_gravity 800    
  }
}


Danny
url=http://www.tremulous.info][/url]


Neo

  • Posts: 760
  • Turrets: +2/-0
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2006, 03:45:26 pm »
Seems a bit alien unfriendly atm, now that i've had a chance to play it.

1.)Don't seem to be any alien base spots that can't be sniped from a distance.

2.)Wall and cieling decorations block wallwalking and marauders respectively.

3.)Lots of granger traps, even the pipes next to water tank.

4.)The water tank, as anything that doesn't have wallwalking/jumping can't get out. Even goons will get trapped in there if they don't know the only way to get out(the rings on the pipes).

Humans seem to favour the airlock as they can build there with no problem and if aliens do any damage they just close the door and rebuild. Its a death trap for aliens.

DarkWolf

  • Posts: 149
  • Turrets: +0/-0
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2006, 05:15:20 pm »
I'm seeing a BIG new problem arising fast.
Humans dont have a base like in beta01 right?
Bad change there, aliens are learning to just rush and get to the base entrance and kill all the builders while the rest of the team is saying: oooooh what a pretty sun, or that there are too many aliens to shoot.
I'ts really frustrating that the humans are not being defended by a turret or what-so-ever, and can't do anything else then die, or build on this map at this moment.
So my advice is: Make a pre-build base at the start of the map (1 reactor, 1-2 turret(s)), so the builders are atleast protected whilst they are building up the base.
That would solve the problem of having the game ended in 1-5 minutes.
Hope this problem will be solved soon :) .

EDIT:
Quote from: "Neo"
Humans seem to favour the airlock as they can build there with no problem and if aliens do any damage they just close the door and rebuild. Its a death trap for aliens.
I haven't seen 1, but not 1 human EVER building at that place, and you do know there are buttons at the control room that opens all the door's on the map?
Just let a teammate open the door whilst you stand at a safe distence and then jump over the turrets.
This may be an arrising problem in the future, but for now, humans have 0 interest in that spot, partially because reactor has to be build outside the cover of the base, and thus the sun damaging it.
img]http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7353/wolf6jo.jpg[/img]


Proud admin of the DB@ servers.

Ksempac

  • Posts: 261
  • Turrets: +1/-1
    • http://www.ksempac.info/blog
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2006, 05:34:38 pm »
Quote from: "[db@
Megabite"]
I have this mapcycle now, hopefully fixing the svar changes for the other maps:[code]rotation1


It didn t work...Kill limit to reach level 3 is high on every map...making beyond derelict unplayable (aliens cant win on this map without level 3). T_T
url=http://tremulous.net][/url]

[db@]Megabite

  • Posts: 613
  • Turrets: +3/-0
    • http://www.tremulous.info
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2006, 09:27:39 pm »
I have put the file in the middle of the cycle... maybe the last commands did not get executed at the end of cycle.
Hope this helps, otherwise it would have to be kicked again... :(

Danny
url=http://www.tremulous.info][/url]


Ksempac

  • Posts: 261
  • Turrets: +1/-1
    • http://www.ksempac.info/blog
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2006, 12:39:15 pm »
Here is another review after some games on the map

3 bugs i noticed :

- You can kill someone who is in the command center through the window (you can even bite provided the human is close to the window)
- The lock system needs some improvements : at the beginning in the command center, red = open but at the end of the game, some doors open when switches are red, and some when switches are green...Did you take into account the use of the switches near the doors to determine the color of the lights in command center ?
- Another problem with the lock system : I noticed in two different games, that, at the end of the game, some doors dont work properly : only 2 locks are in position and the door open when you come near it. So if you re a human without BS (to be able to crouch), or a dretch/basilic/marauder, you can go through the "locked" door.

About gameplay :
I must say its awful...

1 First, the gravity problem...Low gravity can be fun but 8 is really too low...
Especially for humans who start outside. Maybe something between 200 or 80 would be better. However if you keep low gravity, the balance of the game is f***** : Wallwalkers are powerful during S1, but Jetpacks will be the masters of S2 and S3. (What i dont understand is why this happens only when i m playing on Derelict and not when i m playing on local...is it a problem with Derelict ?)

2 About the starting point outside...I love it but aliens tend to rush to the entrance of the base so that they can prevent the wounded humans with CK from going inside. When they reach dragoons, game is finished. Maybe you could find a way to slow them down a little at the beginning so that humans have a chance to build a node inside before the Aliens rush ???

3 To prevent the Alien rush, some humans build outside. The problem is, when they are outside, they stay outside...they dont try to go inside the base anymore. So they arent really playing. I think you should forbid building outside.

4 However this is a more general problem : Everytime i played on the map, i was under the impression that everyone was only walking in corridors, and sometimes, if they met an ennemy they would try to kill it. But they dont try to finish the game : Aliens think they cant destroy human base, and Humans dont care about the alien base.
 Even players who already played many times on the map seem to like doing nothing (i can understand that a newbie prefer to discover all the map before ending the game). I see 3 possible reasons to that :
- Alien base is well hide (its on a high position, in a room with 2 low entrances...so sometimes you dont notice the room is very high...and some humans dont know there are ladders in this room) so humans often miss it. If its location was a bit more obvious maybe they would try to destroy it.
- We never reach Stage 3 : At the beginning i was in favor of the hard-to-reach S3. But now, i m against it : The map is too big, we dont frag as much as in the others map, and the high limit often mess with the server configuration. You should remove it. With tyrants, Aliens will try to destroy the human base (Although i m quite sure marauders who can destroy buildings from under the pathway would be enough...but aliens never try anything against humans)
- The map is definitly too big ??? By removing some corridors, we would fight more.


Another little thing : Can you speed up the elevators pls ? They are desperatly slow...i always wonder wheter i activated them or not...(and adding a sound would be nice too)
url=http://tremulous.net][/url]

Stof

  • Posts: 1343
  • Turrets: +1/-1
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2006, 12:50:59 pm »
Gravity problem ? The map has a normal gravity. You say it has a gravity of 8 ? Then Derelic is using an unpatched server and the config files used to override the map settings do not work :D In fact, the bug was that any config line longer than 16 would get mangled. You'll notice that the gravity line cut at the 15 char ( + the \0 char at position 16 ) maps exactly to a set gravity of 8.

So, the very low gravity is something only for Derelict. And it explains why the map rotation config file doesn't work.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

soubok

  • Posts: 81
  • Turrets: +6/-0
    • http://soubok.googlepages.com/
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2006, 01:24:12 pm »
- windows will be fixed ( problem with surfaces that touch the wall, need cauk? nodraw? clip? ?? need help  )
- red and green light will be switched and fixed ( i have to clone the button trigger )
- I have an idea to fix the lock system
- The gravity of the map is 750 ( default is 800 ), and this was just to reinforce the feeling that this planet is not the earth
- the human base: if you have a look at the console when the map start, you will notice that the engine is not able to place the reactor ( because it entre in conflice with the ceiling ), but it was my intent to have a mini base with a reactor and 2 turrets to avoid alien rush
- the lift will be speed up x2
- I will try nobuild outside the base
- I will put an alien egg + some tubes at the bottom of the wearhouse, new players will see more easily where is the alien base
- I will restaure default map configuration, so everyone will be happy
- map too big: hmmm

btw, what do you think about to prevent building under the floors ?
 soubok -

[db@]Megabite

  • Posts: 613
  • Turrets: +3/-0
    • http://www.tremulous.info
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2006, 01:25:10 pm »
In order to make the server playable again, pulse beta2 has been removed from cycle again. :(

Danny
url=http://www.tremulous.info][/url]


Stof

  • Posts: 1343
  • Turrets: +1/-1
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2006, 01:36:00 pm »
Here's the corresponding bug if you want to try to update the server with a fix : https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2690
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Neo

  • Posts: 760
  • Turrets: +2/-0
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2006, 04:22:29 pm »
Btw there seems to be a bit of a glitch with the spectator systems 'jump' through doors method. As it ends up trapping spectators in the wedges under the floor when they pass through at a certain angle.

gareth

  • Posts: 710
  • Turrets: +38/-89
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2006, 05:27:04 pm »
Some comments:

lifts are two complicated: why do u need 3 buttons? it is easy to get squisehed as a larger alien

I was playing with a full server (12) and i was just wandering around lost until i bumped into someone. The signs help a little but they dont really give enough infomation, i still think  that i all looks rather similar, i mean the colours and everything, someplaces do look distinctive, but those places arent the ones with corridors going everywhere.

Anyway, i do like this map, low/no? gravity was fun :P

BunnyFooFoo

  • Posts: 8
  • Turrets: +0/-0
Comments for Pulse_70
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2006, 05:33:45 pm »
Soubok,

Thanks for this map.  It's large and detailed and has some very nice and clever concepts in it, but conversely, it's goning to take a lot of development to get it prefected.  Thanks for letting me play on your server for a bit.  I've run the map on my machine locally as well for a while and come up with the following gripe list:

-Dretch can climb down the 'slow' generator and live.  Also, you can wedge things between the stator and the armeture and jam generators.  Does this *do* anything? :)
-"Power Conduit" in warehouse ceiling is at the same depth as the ceiling texture and flashes in and out--due to Z sorting randomness
-Found out how to 'half lock' doors and fix it--squish something.  Dretch can get through a half locked door. :)
-Celiing of control room 'flickers' between two textures
-Do generators turn off somehow?
-Humans can decon last telenode--can't in other maps
-Telenodes on landing platform auto-destruct
-Outside damage only effects one thing at a time?--nodes on landing platform die in sequence.
-Why is there a lonely gun conned by the entrance to the base?
-Put some stuff on the bedroom shelves--pictures, little sculputes, etc.  
-Make the beds or shelves climbable or at least far enough appart for a dretch to take a nap on them. :)
-In vents near control room--need to remove need to crouch to get under overhang--at under hallway to under control center transition.
-'Deep channel' under stairs so humans can run is great, but you need to bevel the corners (as seen from above) so that turning corners doesn't 'catch' you--damn dot product.

That's all I've got for now.  It's a great level and thank you for your work on it!  I'm looking forward to the final product!

To go on record, I like being able to build guns under the floor--I have a nice base layout near the control center that relies on it.  The cool thing is that you can read the status of the turrets *through the floor*. :)  Very convenient.  You can't repair them, but you can at least see their status.

I would like acid pots *to* fire through the floor--but I'd also like fire to go through it--just flame, not bullets.  I have *no* idea if that is possible.

I *just* got GtkRadiant working for tremulous last night and made my first 'box of stuff'.  I'm missing a bunch of the default textures and shaders, but I'm starting to get an idea of how complex and difficult a lot of this work is and I have the greatest respect for those who have crafted levels.  That is indeed a lot of work.  Thank you all for taking the time to make something we can all enjoy.

Cheers!

Paradox

  • Posts: 2612
  • Turrets: +253/-250
    • Paradox Designs
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2006, 06:05:02 pm »
I keep getting sound errors, seems like some file is missing.

∧OMG ENTROPY∧

Neo

  • Posts: 760
  • Turrets: +2/-0
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2006, 06:33:16 pm »
I think those are gurp1 and gurp2 but no idea what they are.

Ksempac

  • Posts: 261
  • Turrets: +1/-1
    • http://www.ksempac.info/blog
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2006, 07:21:57 pm »
Theses are the sounds that should be played when someone is drowing in water tank.
But as for now, soubok didn t find good sounds for that.

Quote
-Why is there a lonely gun conned by the entrance to the base?


Soubok already said he wanted to put a reactor to avoid alien rush but the reactor isn t placed correctly so it doesn t work ;)


Quote
-Put some stuff on the bedroom shelves--pictures, little sculputes, etc.


I strongly disagree on this point...The bedroom area is where i get the poorest FPS. Some optimization is required here. I dont want other details to slow the game even more.
url=http://tremulous.net][/url]

soubok

  • Posts: 81
  • Turrets: +6/-0
    • http://soubok.googlepages.com/
public maptest: pulse - BETA 2
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2006, 07:24:27 pm »
they are drowning sounds, I will record them soon ...

EDIT:

another notice about the "slow" reactor, in fact it is an unfinished way to get outside the base, this is a "sewage disposal". In the version I working on, the water is glowing ( radioactivity or something ) so the access is visible !
 soubok -