Tremulous in the shop for money!!!!!

[Undeference]

that's kinda sad someone selling something that comes free.

Like water?

Selling a refined natural resource and selling the copyrighted work of somebody else without express permission are two different things. Your analogy is bad and you should feel bad.

With the exception of those cc-nd-nc assets that are used, they do have express permission. (But who knows, maybe they made their own versions of those assets and aren't actually infringing anyone's copyrights.) I don't feel bad and neither, I'm sure, do you for entirely missing the point.

Though, when you think about it, purified water has no inherent material cost, whereas the medium a copyrighted work comes on does. Furthermore, water is necessary to sustain life and Tremulous is, unfortunately, not. Thus, it could be argued that selling water is worse economically and morally than selling copyrighted work that is otherwise gratis.

The point of capitalism is to make a profit. All the better if that can be accomplished at no cost.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

some jerk found out that he can sell free games for money, making fool of other people. legal or illegal, its jerkness. point.

[David]

So the people who sold Linux disks prior to high-speed internet are evil too?
Back then it was the cheaper option, and just because where you live the internet is now the cheaper option doesn't mean it is so in Hungary.  The lowering price of one distribution method doesn't mean the others should cease.
Maybe people should start selling it in America?  From what I hear your internet connections all suck and your infrastructure is (literally) falling apart.

[Lava Croft]

I think Optimus is not entirely in touch with reality. The GPL explicitly states you can sell the work for money, so I don't see how it involves any kind of jerkness. In fact, it's actually quite nice to see a game like Tremulous in the shops, the more visible Tremulous is, the better! Even with the questionable box art!

Of course, there always has been and always will be this group of hippie dreamers who think making money is bad...

[Samurai.mac]

There's a major flaw in the "For people who can't connect to the internet to download it" argument: it's meant to be played online. So unless these people who don't have proper internet access somehow have the resources to start their own LAN based games, it's pointless anyway.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

it is very cute that some people imagine Hungary as scenes from Fallout. It's not postnuclear, and we are quite okay with internet connection inside europe. it's also not too edgy to play on usa servers, because the differences inside the US itself are almost as high as ours from here. i don'T know who did tell David about allsuck net and cracking infrastructure, but he/she has less touch with reality than me.

and Lava, what is possible is not necessarely right. however, i will not put stickers on you if you get hyperrich with this mentality, so go ahead.

[Bissig]

There's a major flaw in the "For people who can't connect to the internet to download it" argument: it's meant to be played online. So unless these people who don't have proper internet access somehow have the resources to start their own LAN based games, it's pointless anyway.

You do not need a fast connection to play online. You need a fast connection to download huge amounts of data. There was no one arguing that they can't connect to the internet at all. Read again!

[Seffylight]

You do not need a fast connection to play online. You need a fast connection to download huge amounts of data. There was no one arguing that they can't connect to the internet at all. Read again!

Have you ever tried to play Tremulous over a dial-up modem?

[Bissig]

You do not need a fast connection to play online. You need a fast connection to download huge amounts of data. There was no one arguing that they can't connect to the internet at all. Read again!

Have you ever tried to play Tremulous over a dial-up modem?

No. I don't think it would be much fun playing on a 16+ player server, but on small servers it should work. That was not the point though.

[David]

it is very cute that some people imagine Hungary as scenes from Fallout. It's not postnuclear, and we are quite okay with internet connection inside europe. it's also not too edgy to play on usa servers, because the differences inside the US itself are almost as high as ours from here. i don'T know who did tell David about allsuck net and cracking infrastructure, but he/she has less touch with reality than me.

and Lava, what is possible is not necessarely right. however, i will not put stickers on you if you get hyperrich with this mentality, so go ahead.

Try reading my post next time.
I was saying that its Americas infrastructure that's falling apart, I know a few Americans who can't get high-speed internet.
And a lot of people still have very slow or capped connections, so a CD could be nice.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

oh srry, i misunderstood that.

[Lava Croft]

There is nothing wrong with making money, certainly not when the way you make money is perfectly acceptable. I don't see how selling Tremulous discs comes even remotely near any kind of 'lameness', 'cheapness' or 'bad-hearted intent', but hey, most people are as selective as fuck when it comes to whining.

You live in a world that is brimming with products that are of a questionable origin, and you spend your time whining about some person selling Tremulous discs, as if he/she is doing something morally unacceptable.

I suggest you get your feet back on the soil you are supposed to stand on, open your eyes and look at the world around you. Soon enough, even people like should realize the retardation of their ways, and will hopefully project their excess energy at the real problems in this world.

Fucking hippies.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

the "person" who is selling this stuff to people are:

"SPAR is the world’s largest food retailer, with approximately 15,000 stores in 35 countries worldwide[1]. SPAR originated in the Netherlands in 1932 and now, through its affiliate organisations, operates through most European countries, South Africa, Asia and Australia[1]"

"Tesco plc is a British-based international grocery and general merchandising retail chain. It is the largest British retailer by both global sales and domestic market share with profits exceeding £2 billion. In 2008, the company overtook German retail giant Metro AG to become the world's fourth largest retailer, the first movement among the top five since 2003.[3]"

ofc nothing can match the "real problems" that are inside you, if not liking this behavior is like being a "fucking hippie".

[Tycho]

There is nothing wrong with making money, certainly not when the way you make money is perfectly acceptable. I don't see how selling Tremulous discs comes even remotely near any kind of 'lameness', 'cheapness' or 'bad-hearted intent', but hey, most people are as selective as fuck when it comes to whining.

You live in a world that is brimming with products that are of a questionable origin, and you spend your time whining about some person selling Tremulous discs, as if he/she is doing something morally unacceptable.

I suggest you get your feet back on the soil you are supposed to stand on, open your eyes and look at the world around you. Soon enough, even people like should realize the retardation of their ways, and will hopefully project their excess energy at the real problems in this world.

Fucking hippies.

While I find it quite amusing how you call him a hippie I'd like to point out a little fact for you in all this...

The game is free to download. If any reasonable (not money wasting retard) finds out that he payed for a LEGALLY-FREE-TO-DOWNLOAD (don't start to drag the internet's cost in here, most of us pay by month not by data transfer so basically it is irrelevant how much you spend online within a given month...) game in a shitty box then he/she will feel ripped off. 
+Opti+ has a problem with that so maybe you can call him a hippie for caring about others or a hypocrite for acting like he cares or whatever you want but the fact remains that while it is LEGAL to sell the game  - Even though without the permission of the author or even correctly citing the author or most likely not even including the original code in the retail thus breaking the GPL and selling it ILLEGALLY (most likely - none of us bought that game since it's box is fugly and we already own our copies of the game legally from the net - so we can't possibly know (yet maybe)) it is not MORALLY right. Before you start calling me a tree hugging hippie or something I'd like to tell you that I know that the world isn't morally right but I don't think you should take it where you can choose not to. Just because everyone shovels shit in your face it's still not necessary for you to eat it. - So we did not buy the game.

I think though that if they would've created a satisfying game related box-art and told the customers on the box that this game is free to download and online only and they'd included the code and the related links to the GPL thus informing the customer about the actual product they are selling we all would be less agitated by it. But since it's some tesco/spar action there I'm pretty sure that none of the above happened but thus far we only saw the box since none of us would pay for it...

[Lava Croft]

The thing is, there is no need to feel ripped off. Either you pay money for an internet connection and the time to download Tremulous, or you pay money for burning it to a disc and shipping it to a local shop. Either way, it costs money.

The bottom line is, the GPL or CC-SA license state nothing about what is morally acceptable and what is not. It is morally acceptable in some societies to eat cats and/or dogs, while it is morally unacceptable in others. If something is illegal or not is something that you can verify by checking the licenses, if something is morally acceptable or not is something that differs from society to society, from person to person, and therefore is an obsolete argument in this matter.

[Tycho]

If something is illegal or not is something that you can verify by checking the licenses, if something is morally acceptable or not is something that differs from society to society, from person to person, and therefore is an obsolete argument in this matter.

I wanted to hear this. Thank you

Although you still need to pay for a net to play tremulous but I'm just splitting hairs

[David]

Even though without the permission of the author or even correctly citing the author or most likely not even including the original code in the retail thus breaking the GPL and selling it ILLEGALLY (most likely - none of us bought that game since it's box is fugly and we already own our copies of the game legally from the net - so we can't possibly know (yet maybe))

They don't need to have the authors permission, including the GPL on disk is easier than not as I assume they have the default installer, and how do you know they didn't have a GPL note on the box?  They also don't need to include the source, although again its in the default installer.
Of course all of this has been said before in this thread, so please start reading.

[Tycho]

...but the fact remains that while it is LEGAL to sell the game  - Even though without the permission of the author or even correctly citing the author or most likely not even including the original code in the retail thus breaking the GPL and selling it ILLEGALLY (most likely - none of us bought that game since it's box is fugly and we already own our copies of the game legally from the net - so we can't possibly know (yet maybe))

They don't need to have the authors permission, including the GPL on disk is easier than not as I assume they have the default installer, and how do you know they didn't have a GPL note on the box?  They also don't need to include the source, although again its in the default installer.
Of course all of this has been said before in this thread, so please start reading.

I was speaking of morality and the possibilities of their distribution for all we could know. Also you just grabbed a sentence out of my post without the context and began chewing that so I fixed your quote...

Also I saw and read what is on the box. No GPL or whatsoever was mentioned on the outside or at all for all we could see.

[SlackerLinux]

the problem isn't with them selling it i have no issue with the guys who sell linux cd's down at the markets for a few bucks to cover the cd costs and a buck or 2 for his trouble. i don't know how much money there actually charging but really to profit from something free and something not your work is kinda wrong.

[Lava Croft]

Guys, wake up in the real world.

Nothing is free.

[Kaleo]

You even have to pay for Lava's hatered...

[+ OPTIMUS +]

altough Tycho said almost all of it, just some notes:

your will IS free.

@Lava, the mentality we are discussing is somewhere behind the "real problems" that you otherwise like to fight against. like the food stuff at the other thread where you recommended the books, or maybe even the water festing cure of cancer. awareness, as you mentioned it at the beginning (now i see that was sarcasm) is a tiny action against it that is not so much effort from individuals.

simply, if you know that the thing you are going to buy is otherwise free, you can choose to pay it or not, knowing how much effort it would need to get it.

weapon of choice was not invented in woodstock.

[Lava Croft]

If you expect an in-depth reply to a post that directly links the 'unofficial' sale of a free, open-source computergame to some of the greatest 'problems' of our world, then you are even more completely loco than your post makes me assume you are.

Again, just for you: Getting Tremulous on your HD is not free. There is either a fee for the use of an internet connection (yes, people actually have to pay to use the internet), or there is a fee to get Tremulous on physical media.

And Woodstock? What did those hippies ever do for society, besides use dope, spread STI's and burn a lot of oil?

[edit] typopunctuationyo

[+ OPTIMUS +]

i guess you just missed reading my previous post.

[Lava Croft]

It's pretty hard to miss what exactly is written in that post, it's mindless chatter that mixes up completely different subjects, only to make oneself look like some kind of righteous warrior in a world full of unjustice.

We are talking about a computergame here, if you think you can change the world by starting here, you really, really do not understand what you are supposed to do. This is nothing but 'cosmetic' activism, which accomplishes nothing but barely scratch the surface of any kind of problems there may be.

This display 'activism' seriously annoys me, I wish you would not use something as happy as a computergame to preach your nonsense. I think you should visit some music festival, since I am pretty sure it will impress some girls.

[Bissig]

Poor Lava, soo many people that do not understand how his this world works.

[Tycho]

As the subject says:

Lava, you still need to pay for a net to play Tremulous in most cases so by your argument the cost of net is irrelevant in the acquisition of Tremulous since you need to pay for it almost anyway. Again: I'm just splitting hairs here.

[Bomb]

The mere act of selling Tremulous in such a fugly box is grounds for immediate decapitation.

[Lava Croft]

@Tycho: Aren't we talking about the cost of acquiring Tremulous, not actually using it.
Besides, you don't need an active internet connection to play Tremulous, if that's what you mean with 'a net'.

[Bomb]

You do, however, need an active Internet connection to play online.