Tremfusion's opinion concerning sv_pure

[Amanieu]

We believe that pure check is bad. Maybe you haven't already noticed that. We have.

• Maybe you have seen iFrancois's FunPack. All it did was change the colors of some textures in the game. The result was pretty and ... fun. It does not give any advantage in the game. You can only enjoy these new graphics on non-pure servers.
• Maybe you remember Kangounator's updated qvms. All he did was take the latest cgame and ui qvms, and then backport them to make them work on 1.1 servers. But because of sv_pure, only people with a hacked client or playing on one of the few non-pure server will be able to enjoy a performance and functionality boost.
• Maybe you aren't a native english speaker. Have you never wanted to have a translation of the game to your native language? Well, too bad. 90% of all servers have sv_pure on. It's english or nothing.
• We were temporarily banned from this forum for offering a hacked pk3. All this pk3 did was allowing people to use accented characters while chatting. We removed the hack, so only non-pure servers will be able to have accented characters.
• Have you ever heard of XReal? XReal is an improvement of the Quake 3 engine (which Tremulous is based on) with a completely rewritten renderer which is designed to be comparable to recent commercial games. We are currently working on porting that renderer to Tremfusion. Here are a few screenshots of what it could look like: http://xreal.sourceforge.net/xrealwiki/ScreenShots There is just one problem: Maps will need to be recompiled and shaders will need to be updated. We have started working on that, but... these won't be usable on all servers with sv_pure enabled.

Now, people are telling me that sv_pure prevents cheating. Let's see what it allows... Oh, wait, I'm risking a ban by talking about the danger of these cheats. Therefore, we shall just stay in ignorance and I won't be able to give any arguments for sv_pure concerning cheats. Let's just say that it does allow certain cheats.

In order to get these cheats, you need to get a pk3 file, which needs to be downloaded on some obscure website. Now, how do you get a client which automatically bypasses sv_pure? You just go to some obscure website and download the hacked client. Anyone wanting to cheat would of course prefer the hacked client, with aimbot and a lot of little bonuses, to just a pk3 with cheats in them.

As you can see, sv_pure does more to prevent users from customizing and extending the game then to prevent people from cheating.


Now some people have told me that there is another reason for the use of sv_pure: Many players have a very cluttered base folder with a lot of downloaded pk3s. Some of these pk3s can completely break the game. sv_pure is therefore a way to prevent these pk3s from being loaded (They won't be loaded because they aren't on the server's "allowed" list). I know this is an important problem because when I disabled sv_pure on my server, half of the players were reporting having problems.

We have thought about this problem, and have found a way to keep sv_pure's "shield" effect while getting rid of it's "lock" effect.

Tremfusion will still send the list of allowed pk3s like normal sv_pure. Only the list will be interpreted by the client as a list of "recommended" pk3s, to which the client can add its own pk3s by simply changing the fs_extrapaks cvar to include the names of the pk3s to be added.

Keep this in mind as Tremfusion will continue to grow and start proposing significant graphical improvements, players will surely prefer severs where they will be able to take advantage of these enhancements.

And... if you are one of those people who think Tremfusion has no future... just wait and see

[Rocinante]

Why exactly are you advertising something which you've admitted is not Tremulous, plans to not keep compatibility with Tremulous, and has a laundry list of things which you've "fixed" because they're "broken" in Tremulous, on the Tremulous forums?

[Amanieu]

The point of that post was to provide feedback on sv_pure, not advertising Tremfusion.

[Rocinante]

Then there's some stuff you could delete from the post, since it's irrelevant:

We have thought about this problem, and have found a way to keep sv_pure's "shield" effect while getting rid of it's "lock" effect.

From that line, all the way to the end.  Oh, and the subject too.

[Lakitu7]

"Feedback" my ass.

* Any server that wishes to allow the use of the funpack can place it in their base directory. Nobody needs to turn off sv_pure for that.
* Puretrem has been allowing the use of updated vms for the past few months while running sv_pure 1. Try again.
* French servers can run French pk3s.
* Get the changes into SVN Tremulous where they belong.
* Oh great, I can't wait to get 3 fps in Tremulous too!!!

All of these things can be done within sv_pure. Server owners have a right to make the rules on their servers and sv_pure is part of that. You can't do these things on pure servers right now? Apparently the people who own and pay for the servers on which you play for free have chosen not to allow you to. Convince them to add the pk3s you'd like to be allowed to use. If they're as not-hax as you claim then this should be no problem.

This just boils down to:
Amanieu is too lazy/ignorant to do things properly and would rather spread propaganda because it's easier for him and more conducive to his goals of spamming tremfusion links everywhere. Of course, basically all of Tremfusion boils down to "Amanieu's crappy ideas got rejected from other tremulous projects becaucse they are crappy, so he goes and starts a fork so that somone might pay attention to him" so it's really no change from the norm.

[David]

Pure check is bad. Maybe you haven't already noticed it. We have.

Pure check is good.  Maybe you don't like it, but I do.

Maybe you have seen iFrancois's FunPack. All it did was change the colors of some textures in the game. The result was pretty and ... fun. It does not give any advantage in the game. You can only enjoy these new graphics on non-pure servers.

A dretch is dark, and can hide quite well in pipes etc on some maps.  A red and yellow dretch is a lot easier to see, and cheating.

Maybe you remember Kangounator's updated qvms. All he did was take the latest cgame and ui qvms, and then backport them to make them work on 1.1 servers. But because of sv_pure, only people with a hacked client or playing on one of the few non-pure server will be able to enjoy a performance and functionality boost.

Ever hear of semi-pure?

Maybe you aren't a native english speaker. Have you never wanted to have a translation of the game to your native language? Well, too bad. 90% of all servers have sv_pure on. It's english or nothing.

WTF?  The lack of i18n support is nothing to do with pure.

We were temporarily banned from this forum for offering a hacked pk3. All this pk3 did was allowing people to use accented characters while chatting. We removed the hack, so only non-pure servers will be able to have accented characters.

Fixed client-only already.

Have you ever heard of XReal? XReal is an improvement of the Quake 3 engine (which Tremulous is based on) with a completely rewritten renderer which is designed to be comparable to recent commercial games. We are currently working on porting that renderer to Tremfusion. Here are a few screenshots of what it could look like: http://xreal.sourceforge.net/xrealwiki/ScreenShots There is just one problem: Maps will need to be recompiled and shaders will need to be updated. We have started working on that, but... these won't be usable on all servers with sv_pure enabled.

Renderer is client only, and using a different map to the server is both cheating and will bite you in the arse.  Hard.

Now, people are telling me that sv_pure prevents cheating. Let's see what it allows... Oh, wait, I'm risking a ban by talking about the danger of these cheats. Therefore, we shall just stay in ignorance and I won't be able to give any arguments for sv_pure concerning cheats. Let's just say that it does allow certain cheats.

Pure doesn't stop cheating.  That's impossible.  What it does is massively reduce cheating.  Just because something is hard doesn't mean you should give up, do the best you can and keep trying.

In order to get these cheats, you need to get a pk3 file, which needs to be downloaded on some obscure website. Now, how do you get a client which automatically bypasses sv_pure? You just go to some obscure website and download the hacked client. Anyone wanting to cheat would of course prefer the hacked client, with aimbot and a lot of little bonuses, to just a hacked pk3.

And get how many viruses while your there?

As you can see, sv_pure does more to prevent users from customizing and extending the game then to prevent people from cheating.

As you can see, Amanieu is pushing an agenda.

Now some people have told me that there is another reason for the use of sv_pure: Many players have a very cluttered base folder with a lot of downloaded pk3s. Some of these pk3s can completely break the game. sv_pure is therefore a way to prevent these pk3s from being loaded (They won't be loaded because they aren't on the server's "allowed" list). I know this is an important problem because when I disabled sv_pure on my server, half of the players were reporting having problems.

We have thought about this problem, and have found a way to keep sv_pure's "shield" effect while getting rid of it's "lock" effect.

Tremfusion will still send the list of allowed pk3s like normal sv_pure. Only the list will be interpreted by the client as a list of "recommended" pk3s, to which the client can add its own pk3s by simply changing the fs_extrapaks cvar to include the names of the pk3s to be added.

Keep this in mind as Tremfusion will continue to grow and start proposing significant graphical improvements, players will surely prefer severs where they will be able to take advantage of these enhancements.

And... if you are one of those people who think Tremfusion has no future... just wait and see

Oh look, an agenda.

[Taiyo.uk]

Have you ever heard of XReal? XReal is an improvement of the Quake 3 engine (which Tremulous is based on) with a completely rewritten renderer which is designed to be comparable to recent commercial games. We are currently working on porting that renderer to Tremfusion. Here are a few screenshots of what it could look like: http://xreal.sourceforge.net/xrealwiki/ScreenShots There is just one problem: Maps will need to be recompiled and shaders will need to be updated. We have started working on that, but... these won't be usable on all servers with sv_pure enabled.

That'd be wonderful if you can make the performance of that renderer comparable to those of recent commercial games as well.

[Amanieu]

A dretch is dark, and can hide quite well in pipes etc on some maps.  A red and yellow dretch is a lot easier to see, and cheating.

If you want to see a dretch better, you boost your gamma and use r_lightmap. If you want to get prettier dretches, you use the FunPack. Also, server owners decide what is "cheating" on their servers, not anyone else.

Ever hear of semi-pure?

It is only used on the PureTremulous servers, and that post was not intended for you guys because I know you guys are too stubborn to remove sv_pure.

WTF?  The lack of i18n support is nothing to do with pure.

You need to translate all of the strings in the cgame and ui.

Fixed client-only already.

You need updated fonts.

Renderer is client only, and using a different map to the server is both cheating and will bite you in the arse.  Hard.

Once again, it is not up to you to decide what is cheating and what isn't, it is up to the server owner. If he decides that people are allowed to have maps which are recompiled to get better graphics with our new renderer, then he will disable sv_pure and let people enjoy the full potential of their video card.

Pure doesn't stop cheating.  That's impossible.  What it does is massively reduce cheating.  Just because something is hard doesn't mean you should give up, do the best you can and keep trying.

Wrong, and I explain why in the next paragraph.

And get how many viruses while your there?

As many as you want, I don't care and that's completely off-topic.

[tuple]

<Amanieu> So, yes, we are forking

It is unfortunate that you are seemingly incapable of configuring forum software for your fork, please stop leeching off of tremulous' forums.

It is also unfortunate that you don't have the guts to stand on your own and build your own community, but prefer to "build" your fork by leeching off of other communities.

I have to admit, I was impressed that you finally gave a straight answer though, considering I've been asking you directly if and why you are forking for a long time.  I always found it amusing that you quit talking in channels where I asked you that question, once again, no guts.

[Amanieu]

That'd be wonderful if you can make the performance of that renderer comparable to those of recent commercial games as well.

The new renderer should outperform the existing one, because it fully exploits the capabilities of the graphic card. The only downside is that support for older graphic cards will have to be dropped.

[Lava Croft]

I guess the minds of some people are not nearly as open as the actual source.

Way to go, guys.

[PS] I believe this thread belongs somewhere in the Mods section, not here.

[googles]

Ignoring all the posts that are unneeded, I believe people are looking at TremFusion more than the topic at hand? (sv_pure)

From what i can see, there are two side that seem to have valid points, the only thing that matters here is the topic posters position( mod status, etc). Ill attempt to wrap this little thread up from the points of view im seeing

Amanieu's: sv_pure IS useless since it can easily be bypassed there is no need for it

Mod's views: if sv_pure is removed that encourages cheating, and that would make it easier for malicious modders to make better cheats that cannot be detected

Reason why amanieu won't win: Amanieu is not a moderator and since the the point of view conflicts with the ones OF the moderators this thread will most likely end up locked( by moderators that don't like their opinion questioned )

My opinion: fuck sv_pure, it isn't helping so i see no need for it to be in the client period

[Amanieu]

[PS] I believe this thread belongs somewhere in the Mods section, not here.

This thread is intended to be feedback about sv_pure, but a bunch of trolls are trying to turn it into a discussion of how Tremfusion sucks.

[David]

A dretch is dark, and can hide quite well in pipes etc on some maps.  A red and yellow dretch is a lot easier to see, and cheating.

If you want to see a dretch better, you boost your gamma and use r_lightmap. If you want to get prettier dretches, you use the FunPack. Also, server owners decide what is "cheating" on their servers, not anyone else.

Ok, that sounds almost like you're arguing my point....
On my server, I chose what's allowed, so I either allow fun pack or I don't.  Which is exactly what sv_pure is designed to facilitate.  Same way we allow the alternate BS skins etc on PT.
Also, lightmap is a different argument, and gamma will make both the pipes and the dretch lighter, not a massive change.  Nothing like a dayglow green dretch.

Ever hear of semi-pure?

It is only used on the PureTremulous servers, and that post was not intended for you guys because I know you guys are too stubborn to remove sv_pure.

seni-pure will go public SOON(tm), once its fully working and tested.  Lak has strict standards and refuses to release untested code, I'm sure you understand.

WTF?  The lack of i18n support is nothing to do with pure.

You need to translate all of the strings in the cgame and ui.

You also need to change a fuckton of other stuff, and I doubt you will be able to make it work with 1.1 so will have to wait for a release.  But if you do find a good way to make it work with 1.1, then I'm sure most servers will allow it, if they so wish.

Renderer is client only, and using a different map to the server is both cheating and will bite you in the arse.  Hard.

Once again, it is not up to you to decide what is cheating and what isn't, it is up to the server owner. If he decides that people are allowed to have maps which are recompiled to get better graphics with our new renderer, then he will disable sv_pure and let people enjoy the full potential of their video card.

You contradict your self here, you say the server owner should have the choice of what's allowed, but then you say they should disable what gives them that choice?  If they want people to get the new stuff, then they will let them.  If they don't they wont.

Pure doesn't stop cheating.  That's impossible.  What it does is massively reduce cheating.  Just because something is hard doesn't mean you should give up, do the best you can and keep trying.

Wrong, and I explain why in the next paragraph.

Wrong.
Every extra step to cheat makes more people give up.  Also, and more importantly, every extra step requires more concious effort to cheat, and makes it clearer that what they are doing is something wrong.  As it stands no cheater can ever claim there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, they have to overcome technical limitation to do it.  With sv_pure 0 the door is open, and "cheating" is now allowed.
When I am out shopping, if I see a shop with a no entry sign, or a lock door, or something else to suggest I shouldn't go in, then entering is trespass, and probably other crimes.  If the door is wide open, then no one can complain, its assumed I can as that's the default for a shop.
With this you grant express permission to modify it via the GPL, so without anything to suggest otherwise, wallhacks and aimbots are expressly allowed.  Saying that its cheating and therefore people should know its wrong assumes that people are both well versed in gamer culture, and have the same moral compass as you.

And get how many viruses while your there?

As many as you want, I don't care and that's completely off-topic.

[/quote]
I was just trying to point out that getting bots isn't as easy as you made out.  While most people are idiots, I would like to think most wouldn't trust software made by a self-declared hacker.

googles:
The OP is a comparison of sv_pure in 1.1 and TremFusion version.  How is it anything but a thread about TremFusion.
Have you read any responses?

Lava Croft:
Read and make a proper response or STFU and stop the unneeded attacks.  

[Lava Croft]

@Amenieu: The problem with this thread is that it's not discussing wether sv_pure is useful or not, it's discussing wether TremFusion and/or a certain feature of TremFusion is bad or not. I think such a thread belongs in this section.
@David: Take a Diazepam and relax a little.

[googles]

despite this thread being heavily based toward TremFusion, i still think the sv_pure system needs some serious questioning and/or discussing with the community in mind. From my point of view, pure is simply limiting the community from developing what they want to make.

[Amanieu]

Ok, that sounds almost like you're arguing my point....
On my server, I chose what's allowed, so I either allow fun pack or I don't.  Which is exactly what sv_pure is designed to facilitate.  Same way we allow the alternate BS skins etc on PT.
Also, lightmap is a different argument, and gamma will make both the pipes and the dretch lighter, not a massive change.  Nothing like a dayglow green dretch.

As google said: "pure is simply limiting the community from developing what they want to make". As servers start to turn sv_pure off, the community will be motivated to make client mods. You can't expect a server owner to keep up with the huge number of mods which will be released, most, if not all of them, are not cheats.
Gamma and r_lightmap actually provides more of an advantage in game than a bright green dretch, and even so, the advantage is very small because maps aren't made to allow players to hide by blending with the colors of their surroundings.

seni-pure will go public SOON(tm), once its fully working and tested.  Lak has strict standards and refuses to release untested code, I'm sure you understand.

I'll interpret "SOON(tm)" the same way I interpret 1.2's release: Until it's released, it doesn't exist.
I'll interpret "refuses to release untested code" like this: http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/last.bug.html
And still, you can't expect server owners to have every single variation of updated client qvms on their server.

You also need to change a fuckton of other stuff, and I doubt you will be able to make it work with 1.1 so will have to wait for a release.  But if you do find a good way to make it work with 1.1, then I'm sure most servers will allow it, if they so wish.

Making it work with 1.1 is the least of my worries, I'm just going to put the chosen language in a cvar and let the cgame/ui interpret it.

You contradict your self here, you say the server owner should have the choice of what's allowed, but then you say they should disable what gives them that choice?  If they want people to get the new stuff, then they will let them.  If they don't they wont.

As I said before, you can't expect server owners to keep stuffing their base folder with every mod that gets released. It is better to just allow people to load up whatever mod they want, and then just revert to traditional methods for catching cheaters.

Wrong.
Every extra step to cheat makes more people give up.  Also, and more importantly, every extra step requires more concious effort to cheat, and makes it clearer that what they are doing is something wrong.  As it stands no cheater can ever claim there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, they have to overcome technical limitation to do it.  With sv_pure 0 the door is open, and "cheating" is now allowed.
When I am out shopping, if I see a shop with a no entry sign, or a lock door, or something else to suggest I shouldn't go in, then entering is trespass, and probably other crimes.  If the door is wide open, then no one can complain, its assumed I can as that's the default for a shop.
With this you grant express permission to modify it via the GPL, so without anything to suggest otherwise, wallhacks and aimbots are expressly allowed.  Saying that its cheating and therefore people should know its wrong assumes that people are both well versed in gamer culture, and have the same moral compass as you.

The only extra step there is is downloading a hacked client in addition to a pk3. About telling people if cheats are allowed or not: Aimbots and wallhacks obviously give you an advantage in game, and anyone will know that they aren't allowed, except on a server that says "CHEATZOR SERVER--CHEATS ALLOWED". On the other hand, new fonts, new textures, recompiled maps DO NOT give you any significant advantage in game.

I was just trying to point out that getting bots isn't as easy as you made out.  While most people are idiots, I would like to think most wouldn't trust software made by a self-declared hacker.

I'm pretty sure they would, they "need" an aimbot to pwn everyone in the game.

The OP is a comparison of sv_pure in 1.1 and TremFusion version.  How is it anything but a thread about TremFusion.
Have you read any responses?

The topic of this thread is sv_pure. Tremfusion is related to the topic but it isn't the topic.

[Posts]

A dretch is dark, and can hide quite well in pipes etc on some maps.  A red and yellow dretch is a lot easier to see, and cheating.

brightness/darkness
one thing that deserves much more attention on discussions of this subject is the effect of real life variables on vision

lcd vs crt monitors,
glare, real life light, dark rooms vs bright
should we assume everyone has 20/20 vision? age?
i can turn up the brightness on my laptop to see better, but it hurts my eyes/brain after a few hours.

we talk about how the things we can control (software) make a big difference but don't real life variables also make a big difference? maybe even to the point where its seems silly to discuss such restrictions?

maybe if you average all the players in both groups(file1 vs file2) and compare, one group will have an advantage, but should individual players have such a handicap? i think not.

i think you'd be more effective if you discuss models that had lines sticking far out on the x,y,z axis.(see around corners) or a similar modification that appears more legitimate.

offtopic
What if the thread title was:
"Amanieu's opinion concerning sv_pure"
So, Amanieu is speaking for a project / multiple people? so what?
What if his name was Tremfusion and/or he advertised his project by the same name in his sig?
what if we discussed "Patch X" instead of  "Tremfusion method"
(things to think about)

everyone has an agenda, its just that he has an agenda for a minority, should we shun him away because we disagree with him?
and everyone advertises in similar less obvious ways whether it be intentional or not.
not all forks are equal, there are such things as friendly forks

[David]

You have said people should be allowed to run what they want.
You have said server operators should be able to choose what people can run on there servers.

Please make up your mind.

[Amanieu]

People should be allowed to run what they want.
Server operators can either stick to pure and have people stop playing on their server because they can't run their mod on it, or they can disable it and increase their popularity.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Just my opinion about how much sv_pure sux:

On my server, I chose what's allowed, so I either allow fun pack or I don't.

And you think the cheaters care if you 'disallow' something?

Which is exactly what sv_pure is designed to facilitate.

It fails to facilitate it. But it doesn't fail stopping modders.

Pure doesn't stop cheating.  That's impossible.  What it does is massively reduce cheating.

HAHAHAHAA. Massively my @$$. Maybe compared to a mosquito annoying the potential cheater... No wait it doesn't. I've seen enough cheaters to know that every douche who wants can and will get cheats and only IP/subnet ban stops them, not telling them that it's wrong. So sv_pure is useless at stopping cheating.

Just because something is hard doesn't mean you should give up, do the best you can and keep trying.

The cheaters don't have to 'do the best you can' to get past sv_pure and they certainly don't have to 'keep trying'. Until we get something that actually stops cheating, why limit mods? We can't even get custom images to HUDs iirc.

makes it clearer that what they are doing is something wrong

and you want to think they care. Maybe 0-1% of them.

I would like to think most wouldn't trust software made by a self-declared hacker.

I'd like to think that too, but sadly that is not the case.

[Taiyo.uk]

That'd be wonderful if you can make the performance of that renderer comparable to those of recent commercial games as well.

The new renderer should outperform the existing one, because it fully exploits the capabilities of the graphic card. The only downside is that support for older graphic cards will have to be dropped.

XreaL draws very pretty frames, but takes a long time to do so. With a Radeon HD3650 card, XreaL approaches the performance of Doom 3 without shadows, and gets 20 to 50 fps with stencil volume shadowing when simply walking around a map. Doom3 ran at playable framerates with "ultra" quality settings on a uniprocessor system with a GeForce3 card.

In other words, a HD3650 is insufficient to play XreaL with realtime shadowing, and although this is not a high-end card, it's still somewhat more than what much of the Tremulous community currently have. Sure, XreaL does use contemporary rendering features, but the value of including such features is questionable when only players with high-end graphics hardware can exploit them.

The current Tremulous renderer gives well over 100fps on complex maps like Arachnid2 on a HD3650. The XreaL renderer gives around 60fps on relatively simple maps without realtime shadowing. I doubt that XreaL will outperform the regular Q3 renderer, it just requires too much number crunching to do that. The Q3 renderer only requires the fixed-function graphics hardware of 1999.

[fingered banana]

geez I don't care what you think about sv_pure or anything else.
Open your own forum and do whatever you want to do THERE.
Please, stop advertising tremfusion until you come with something stable and better.

[fingered banana]

That'd be wonderful if you can make the performance of that renderer comparable to those of recent commercial games as well.

The new renderer should outperform the existing one, because it fully exploits the capabilities of the graphic card. The only downside is that support for older graphic cards will have to be dropped.

XreaL draws very pretty frames, but takes a long time to do so. With a Radeon HD3650 card, XreaL approaches the performance of Doom 3 without shadows, and gets 20 to 50 fps with stencil volume shadowing when simply walking around a map. Doom3 ran at playable framerates with "ultra" quality settings on a uniprocessor system with a GeForce3 card.

In other words, a HD3650 is insufficient to play XreaL with realtime shadowing, and although this is not a high-end card, it's still somewhat more than what much of the Tremulous community currently have. Sure, XreaL does use contemporary rendering features, but the value of including such features is questionable when only players with high-end graphics hardware can exploit them.

The current Tremulous renderer gives well over 100fps on complex maps like Arachnid2 on a HD3650. The XreaL renderer gives around 60fps on relatively simple maps without realtime shadowing. I doubt that XreaL will outperform the regular Q3 renderer, it just requires too much number crunching to do that. The Q3 renderer only requires the fixed-function graphics hardware of 1999.

There are better renderers if you want a 3d-slideshow

[Odin]

The amount people who actually use hacked clients to bypass sv_pure are so minuscule that it doesn't matter anyway. I will never know if they're cheating or not unless they use an aimbot. I will still try as hard as I can to win regardless.

I myself don't know how to bypass sv_pure(and don't plan to figure out) and am glad to conform to the server rules. If they want me to load zzz_lolmods.pk3 then so be it.

only IP/subnet ban stops them

The only way to ban anyone permanently is to subnet. The only way they could get on your server after that would be through a proxy and I would laugh at the moron who tries this.

Until we get something that actually stops cheating

You won't. Simple as that. Tremulous is Open Source(and thus you cannot trust the client) so as long as that is true we will have cheaters.

and you want to think they care.

But do I care about what they think? No, I don't. If I find a cheater I ban them. How is that so hard to understand?

But it doesn't fail stopping modders.

Come on. How can you call modders cheaters? Modders use sv_pure to make their mod popular(forced download).

Tremfusion cronies: GTFO of my Tremulous.

XreaL draws very pretty frames, but takes a long time to do so. With a Radeon HD3650 card, XreaL approaches the performance of Doom 3 without shadows, and gets 20 to 50 fps with stencil volume shadowing when simply walking around a map. Doom3 ran at playable framerates with "ultra" quality settings on a uniprocessor system with a GeForce3 card.

Perhaps a partial port would be acceptable. I would be content with bump/deluxe/normal/specular support through specular lighting. In fact, lightmaps(with deluxemaps) are forced default in XreaL nowadays. Plus, shinyness like this wouldn't really hurt the gameplay at all. Theres no way to cheat with specular light.

[googles]

Simple as this: When you develop and release a game under the GPL, there will ALWAYS be cheaters, trying to prevent cheating in an open source game is useless and limits the community itself, i mean why would someone release a game under the GPL? to let the community develop/learn from/for it! so you need to fuck off and let the community decide what they want.

[Odin]

Simple as this: When you develop and release a game under the GPL, there will ALWAYS be cheaters, trying to prevent cheating in an open source game is useless and limits the community itself, i mean why would someone release a game under the GPL? to let the community develop/learn from/for it! so you need to fuck off and let the community decide what they want.

sv_pure does a good enough job.

[wannabe]

1.2 shouldnt be open-source? make peace and love?

[Lakitu7]

I don't really understand why it is that the developers who have made good and responsible ideas don't seem to have had any problem working within sv_pure but only the guys who've made all sorts of nonsense declare it an evil hindrance to development.

Looks like it only hinders the bad developers, to me.

[googles]

if it wasn't for tremulous( or rather open source ) i wouldn't be able to learn the basics of C as easy as i could with tremulous, and the reason i still like to develop for tremulous is the amazing community. also, sv_pure is like putting a band-aid on shotgun wound :|