Author Topic: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!  (Read 81432 times)

Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2008, 06:23:23 pm »
PS:And... btw i tried to port your stealth command to p-g but ... server crashes when 2nd clien enter in game. Can you help me?
I believe that's the same bug as before.

Nope :P
I mean the crash is caused by the same bug, but it can be triggered differently.
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

Odin

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2008, 06:25:44 pm »
To encourage mappers to use OGG instead of wav
WAV is fine because it compresses to just about the same size as a .ogg file once inside a .zip.

Which means all the years of development of the ogg format could have been avoided by just zipping wav files... Something here does not compute.
WAV does not have tag support. zipped WAV files also don't play on portable media players. OGG is a general media format, while WAV is generally used for sound effect files.

David

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 06:26:26 pm »
Except 99% of users will never update there client.  Ever.
Thus no server who wants players would run a map that needs a new client, and therefore no mapper who wants there map played would make such a map.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
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I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2008, 06:29:13 pm »
The map won't *need* a new client. Old client just won't be able to hear the sounds (and get some warnings in the console).
Quote
< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

Bissig

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2008, 06:35:37 pm »
To encourage mappers to use OGG instead of wav
WAV is fine because it compresses to just about the same size as a .ogg file once inside a .zip.

Which means all the years of development of the ogg format could have been avoided by just zipping wav files... Something here does not compute.
WAV does not have tag support. zipped WAV files also don't play on portable media players. OGG is a general media format, while WAV is generally used for sound effect files.

Ogg is actually a container. What they ALL refer to is VORBIS, which does compress far, far better then a f*cking zip file.

Seffylight

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2008, 07:06:01 pm »
which would be very motivating for mappers (long background track music)

Please, mappers, do not feel motivated to add shitty music to your map.
Stop it. Seriously.

Lava Croft

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2008, 07:32:38 pm »
which would be very motivating for mappers (long background track music)

Please, mappers, do not feel motivated to add shitty music to your map.
Please Seffylight, if all you come do in this thread is help your fellow MG peers to piss over anything that TremFusion does, please just don't bother coming to this thread at all.

While I can totally understand a healthy discussion about a certain feature, this negative attitude coming from certain MG members is starting to get ridiculous. It's looking like no matter what TremFusion does, the same people will come and whine and troll over and over.
Either get over the fact that TremFusion exists, or just don't bother trolling.

David

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2008, 07:49:02 pm »
Please Lava Croft, if all you come do in this thread is piss over anything that any MG member says, please just don't bother coming to this thread at all.

What in here isn't healthy discussion?  There has been talk about the relative merits, of ogg and wav, and on weather its worth it without higher penetration.

In what way was Seffy's comment aimed at TF?  And do you really want maps with loud shitty music on loop?
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
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I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Seffylight

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2008, 07:59:09 pm »
which would be very motivating for mappers (long background track music)
Please, mappers, do not feel motivated to add shitty music to your map.
Please Seffylight, if all you come do in this thread is help your fellow MG peers to piss over anything that TremFusion does, please just don't bother coming to this thread at all.
I don't care about TremFusion adding ogg support. If I wanted to piss on it, I could pick any number of the other (and far more valid) reasons. But a step towards leet super kewl rave maps with sweet techno beetz is a step towards a need for clients WITHOUT ogg support, in my opinion.
I am being slightly facetious. Seriously, though, don't put background tracks in multiplayer maps kthx.
Stop it. Seriously.

Lava Croft

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2008, 08:07:12 pm »
which would be very motivating for mappers (long background track music)
Please, mappers, do not feel motivated to add shitty music to your map.
Please Seffylight, if all you come do in this thread is help your fellow MG peers to piss over anything that TremFusion does, please just don't bother coming to this thread at all.
I don't care about TremFusion adding ogg support. If I wanted to piss on it, I could pick any number of the other (and far more valid) reasons. But a step towards leet super kewl rave maps with sweet techno beetz is a step towards a need for clients WITHOUT ogg support, in my opinion.
I am being slightly facetious. Seriously, though, don't put background tracks in multiplayer maps kthx.
Thank you for pointing out that you think more about the people that make shitty maps than about the people who make good maps. I'm sure it's a healthy practice to take into account the worst people can come up with when creating a canvas for artists to work with.

fingered banana

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2008, 09:49:08 pm »
well I don't need ogg UNLESS... you make a jukebox in trem
It can be a gui or a bunch of console commands

/jQueue [file]
/jNext
...etc

David

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2008, 10:05:20 pm »
What's the point?  There are lots of ways to control an external player, with the added benefit of having all the features you want / need.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2008, 10:11:03 pm »
Once we get our scripting engine done, you will be able to create a python script which allows you to control your music player using binds.
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

Hendrich

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2008, 10:16:18 pm »
Hey, did you finally fix the crappy fonts? 'Cause other then TremFusion being awsome, the fonts were hard to read and it hurt my eyes. :P

Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2008, 10:17:32 pm »
You can choose your own fonts now. See the features list entry about freetype.
Quote
< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

RiffRaff

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2008, 12:04:03 am »
i like the ogg support. we, in my band, are thinking about making a track for trem start menu, and if ogg is supported we will be able to compose a long track without the inconvenient of the filesize. sorry for my english.
n Game name: {tHc}Raf

your face

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2008, 01:13:32 am »
While I can totally understand a healthy discussion about a certain feature, this negative attitude coming from certain MG members is starting to get ridiculous.

Been noticing that myself... :)
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Supertanker

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Boy, arent we a meture bunch
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2008, 03:23:14 am »
I am going to start this post by saying that I am not posting as a member of the }MG{. I will also point out that I am not posting as someone who is for or against Trem Fusion, much as I dislike their tactics of pushing
their client/server on people and using Tremulous's services for as long as possible. Those are my personal opinions, and as such are not relevant at the moment.

I am instead posting as a member of the Tremulous Community.

"Oh, no," I hear you thinking! "He's going to go all player1 on us!" Let me assure you that I have no intention of posting random pictures in this thread, although I do have a couple saved on my hard drive for special
occasions such as this one. You may sleep easy tonight knowing that I will not, under any circumstances except those used for demonstrational purposes, type lik dis c4us3 1ts r3411y 4nn0ying 4n h4rd 2 r34d.

Where to begin? Where to begin? At the beginning.

A little introduction may be of use, for those of you who do not know me. I am a mapper, a writer, an }MG{, (Yes, I am affiliated with }MG{, but I am posting with my own thoughts, not those of our top-secret collective groupmind that you're not supposed to know about) a modeler (In training), winner of Best Gameplay in one of Survivor's early mapping contests, and a webmaster. How do these skills relate to the thread?

They don't, so disregard them. This thread isn't about me.

I joined the forums in May of 2006, and was welcomed with arms that, if not necessarily open, were at least tolerant of my crummy maps. As Time has marched onwards in its eternal journey, the Great Pyramids have eroded an additional millimeter or so, gas prices have gone up, huricains have hit the coastline of the southern United States a good many times--and the behavior of this community has dropped so far I'm surprised it hasn't hit bottom yet.

"But wait! I thought this thread wasn't about you!"
Oh, right, I digress to the main point now.

This thread is about TremFusion, (Currently Version 0.0.3) which at the moment is a client modification. If you need to see exactly what it modifies, see the first post in the thread.
Now I do not support this custom modification, nor do I disavow it. I believe that this client might have excellent potiential behind it, if used correctly. However, the way Amanieu is comming across to the Humble Reader (that is to say, the way he is coming across to me), it appears that he is pushing as hard as possible to get others to use his client, disavow from stock Tremulous, and eventually to fork from Tremulous after he 'steals' Tremulous's already shaky userbase.

Note that I said, "the way Amanieu is coming across," which does not necessarilly refer to his actual intentions. I have no idea what his actual intentions are, and I am not in a mood to guess.

I am well aware that Amanieu's comment of, "yes, tremfusion is a fork," makes the 'real' Tremulous developers uncomfortable. Hell, I'm not a Tremulous developer and *I* am more than a little uncomfortable.
But the MG}{s, the TF team, the Tremulous community, and the Moderators, my god, the Moderators who are supposed to be *preventing* this kind of happenstance on the forums are throwing antimatter on the fire!

Do you have any idea how you're appearing? You're so caught up in arguing--both sides, all the sides--over Amanieu's client/port/fork/Whatever it really is, that you're not stopping to think about what you're actually *doing*!

Forums are not just words and posts, they are delicate political entities, with people behind them. (Whether the people are intelligent enough to post in coherant sentences or not is not relevant at the moment)
You (And I'm referring to everybody who is so childlishly arguing in this thread--you know who you are) are carrying out the equivilent of shouting in the middle of a bank when people are trying to do their business. You're starting a brawl in the middle of a peaceful lobby--and you're not even drunk! (Actually, I have no way of ascertaining that fact, but if you *are* drunk it would explain quite a lot)

You're forcing people to pick sides, driving spikes in the already-too-large rifts in the forum. Some of these arguments don't even fully pertain to TF! (Lava Croft is coming to mind for some strange reason...it must be the weather)

Stop acting like a bunch of children with their panties in a knot.
Start acting like mature members of the Tremulous community.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll take my holier-than-thou self outside and start doing something productive, like burying pennies in hopes that they'll grow into a money tree.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 04:39:54 am by supertanker »

SlackerLinux

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Re: Boy, arent we a meture bunch
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2008, 04:55:37 am »
I am going to start this post by saying that I am not posting as a member of the }MG{. I will also point out that I am not posting as someone who is for or against Trem Fusion, much as I dislike their tactics of pushing
their client/server on people and using Tremulous's services for as long as possible. Those are my personal opinions, and as such are not relevant at the moment.

I am instead posting as a member of the Tremulous Community.

"Oh, no," I hear you thinking! "He's going to go all player1 on us!" Let me assure you that I have no intention of posting random pictures in this thread, although I do have a couple saved on my hard drive for special
occasions such as this one. You may sleep easy tonight knowing that I will not, under any circumstances except those used for demonstrational purposes, type lik dis c4us3 1ts r3411y 4nn0ying 4n h4rd 2 r34d.

Where to begin? Where to begin? At the beginning.

A little introduction may be of use, for those of you who do not know me. I am a mapper, a writer, an }MG{, (Yes, I am affiliated with }MG{, but I am posting with my own thoughts, not those of our top-secret collective groupmind that you're not supposed to know about) a modeler (In training), winner of Best Gameplay in one of Survivor's early mapping contests, and a webmaster. How do these skills relate to the thread?

They don't, so disregard them. This thread isn't about me.

I joined the forums in May of 2006, and was welcomed with arms that, if not necessarily open, were at least tolerant of my crummy maps. As Time has marched onwards in its eternal journey, the Great Pyramids have eroded an additional millimeter or so, gas prices have gone up, huricains have hit the coastline of the southern United States a good many times--and the behavior of this community has dropped so far I'm surprised it hasn't hit bottom yet.

"But wait! I thought this thread wasn't about you!"
Oh, right, I digress to the main point now.

This thread is about TremFusion, (Currently Version 0.0.3) which at the moment is a client modification. If you need to see exactly what it modifies, see the first post in the thread.
Now I do not support this custom modification, nor do I disavow it. I believe that this client might have excellent potiential behind it, if used correctly. However, the way Amanieu is comming across to the Humble Reader (that is to say, the way he is coming across to me), it appears that he is pushing as hard as possible to get others to use his client, disavow from stock Tremulous, and eventually to fork from Tremulous after he 'steals' Tremulous's already shaky userbase.

Note that I said, "the way Amanieu is coming across," which does not necessarilly refer to his actual intentions. I have no idea what his actual intentions are, and I am not in a mood to guess.

I am well aware that Amanieu's comment of, "yes, tremfusion is a fork," makes the 'real' Tremulous developers uncomfortable. Hell, I'm not a Tremulous developer and *I* am more than a little uncomfortable.
But the MG}{s, the TF team, the Tremulous community, and the Moderators, my god, the Moderators who are supposed to be *preventing* this kind of happenstance on the forums are throwing antimatter on the fire!

Do you have any idea how you're appearing? You're so caught up in arguing--both sides, all the sides--over Amanieu's client/port/fork/Whatever it really is, that you're not stopping to think about what you're actually *doing*!

Forums are not just words and posts, they are delicate political entities, with people behind them. (Whether the people are intelligent enough to post in coherant sentences or not is not relevant at the moment)
You (And I'm referring to everybody who is so childlishly arguing in this thread--you know who you are) are carrying out the equivilent of shouting in the middle of a bank when people are trying to do their business. You're starting a brawl in the middle of a peaceful lobby--and you're not even drunk! (Actually, I have no way of ascertaining that fact, but if you *are* drunk it would explain quite a lot)

You're forcing people to pick sides, driving spikes in the already-too-large rifts in the forum. Some of these arguments don't even fully pertain to TF! (Lava Croft is coming to mind for some strange reason...it must be the weather)

Stop acting like a bunch of children with their panties in a knot.
Start acting like mature members of the Tremulous community.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll take my holier-than-thou self outside and start doing something productive, like burying pennies in hopes that they'll grow into a money tree.

debate is good its made amanieu leave pure in but off by default even though he believes otherwise (i too think pure is useless). it also lets the tremulous devs who will never finish 1.2 know what the community wants and ignore it as always. tremfusion is a "MOD" because there keeping tremulous support although i think eventually they'll reach a point where they will want to break of completely with compatibility (which would open up alot of new features / etc that can be added)

be open to change and debate its good and healthy for the project and i see lava crofts doing a great job encouraging this to be about the topic pure and not Tremfusion hate (that being from MG and others. fsm-trem welcomes competition).
Slackware64 13.1
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Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2008, 06:56:08 am »
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. People in this community are not sheep. I don't "steal" players. The players choose Tremfusion because they believe it is better than the other alternatives.
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

Posts

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2008, 07:03:44 am »
(ignore)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 07:09:17 am by Posts »

David

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2008, 01:13:38 pm »
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. People in this community are not sheep. I don't "steal" players. The players choose Tremfusion because they believe it is better than the other alternatives.
The problem that people have, is that it seems your only maintaining compatibility as no one would want it otherwise, and you plan to pull a switch once you have some users.  Effectively trying to trick users into following your fork.
If that is not your aim, then please say.  I know a lot of other users also have the same impression of what you are doing.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2008, 04:18:12 pm »
Our current plan is to keep compatibility. Later (read a few years) if we decide that compatibility is significantly hindering our progress, we will break it.
Quote
< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2008, 07:43:08 pm »
We now have a Mac build which supports Freetype and ogg, thanks to benmachine. Some users have reported issues with this package. If it doesn't work for you, use the Tremfusion_basic.dmg package, which should work fine.
http://tremfusion.net/releases/0.0.3/macosx/
Quote
< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

rotacak

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2008, 08:41:04 pm »
I don't understand what happen here. If is tremfusion good or bad, but not breaking license, then what is going on? Don't use it if you don't like it.

And ogg support is very good thing (mp3 would be better). If someone want to make bad map, then he not need ogg support, so that arguments are dumb. And with ogg is possible reduce map size, for example ancient remains (20MB) have lots of sounds (about 75% size down?).

Amanieu

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2008, 08:48:04 pm »
MP3 has patent issues, and OGG is better than MP3 anyways.
Quote
< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

Odin

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2008, 12:01:00 am »
I don't understand what happen here. If is tremfusion good or bad, but not breaking license, then what is going on? Don't use it if you don't like it.

And ogg support is very good thing (mp3 would be better). If someone want to make bad map, then he not need ogg support, so that arguments are dumb. And with ogg is possible reduce map size, for example ancient remains (20MB) have lots of sounds (about 75% size down?).
It would save almost no space zipped up. Maybe 2MB if you're lucky.

Syntac

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2008, 01:05:47 am »
So, getting back on-topic...

Who else is working on TremFusion?

Supertanker

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2008, 01:22:04 am »
So, getting back on-topic...

Who else is working on TremFusion?

I am uncertain, although I believe Azarael (Is that how you spell his name?) is also working on it as well.

Stannum

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Re: Tremfusion 0.0.3 is now out! Come grab it now!
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2008, 01:25:32 am »
Don't mind me, just scratchin' my balls.
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