A Build Points Reform

[Roanoke]

I find it interesting how a game like team fortress manages its structures. For the uninitiated, it works like so: Each engineer carries a maximum metal quantity. This can be refilled at designated areas. However, there isn't any sentry gun spam and so on. So why not make it so that each builder carries some creep or metal, and always has that amount until it's refilled at an om or rc. What do you think?

[Hendrich]

Can't people just refill thie rmetal and spam turrets/teselas like hell?

I say that each human can only have a limited amount of metal based on the amount of kills they got and which stage they're on. Everybody gets a significant metal/creep increase every stage. Humans and aliens shouldn't be able to "refill" or "Regenerate" their metal/creep, as spamming would occur. And limiting the humans to having only (ex.) two turrets per person is just......dumb. Once a human/alien dies or they're structure blows up or is deleted, they'll get a specific amount of metal/creep back.
Also, when a structure kills an enemy, that doesn't count as a kill for the human/alien.

This idea can cause problems, like dretches/rifles feeding a human/alien like crazy so the human/alien can keep building turrets as he or she goes, so maybe like 2 bps/metal/creep/etc per kill or something like that.

[Roanoke]

Can't people just refill thie rmetal and spam turrets/teselas like hell?

Doesn't happen in TF2.

I say that each human can only have a limited amount of metal based on the amount of kills they got and which stage they're on.

But if they're builders, they will have few, if any, kills. However, increasing the metal/creep (MC from now on) cap based on current stage is a good idea.

And limiting the humans to having only (ex.) two turrets per person is just......dumb.

I never suggested that.

Also, when a structure kills an enemy, that doesn't count as a kill for the human/alien.

Well, it should at the very least say who built it.

And thank you for not instaflaming me, instead posting constructive criticism

[Archangel]

TF2 aint Trem.

[Roanoke]

Well, I guess that's true. But why does it work there well?

[Hendrich]

Listen, we all know Tremulous isn't TF2/Starcraft/NS/Gloom/AvP/Halo/etc, but I believe this idea was never meant to replace he current base of building for Tremulous, I think Roanoke was more or less thinking it should be a mod, thus thats why its in the Mod Idea Palace. There isn't anything wrong from taking using the concepts of others and putting it into other games. Like, for example, look at Amaneiu's Portal mod, or what about Tremulous being inspired by Gloom? Could Gloom be inspired by Starcraft, AvP and quake too? Look, we all use ideas, so please don't whine that this idea is taking off of TF, because TF probably took ideas from other games too. (Which it probably, just maybe, did. Anyone familiar with FvF?)

I never suggested that.

I never said you did. I'm just implying in case you/someone was thinking of doing something like that.

Doesn't happen in TF2.

Well, it doesn't happen because theres a limit on the number of structures you can build even if you have say 100000 metal/power/whatever the fuck Valve calls the shit.

Each engineer carries a maximum metal quantity. This can be refilled at designated areas.

I didn't see anything about limiting the amount of metal refills I can get from my arm, or how theres a limit for having turrets, so thus this = structure spam.

Thats why my idea below tries to prevent this:

I say that each human can only have a limited amount of metal based on the amount of kills they got and which stage they're on.

But if they're builders, they will have few, if any, kills.

I'm pretty sure every human/alien with this mod can only build 1-3 structures at default, so theres no excuse for the team not having enough time to go kill after they build.

However, increasing the metal/creep (MC from now on) cap based on current stage is a good idea.Well, it should at the very least say who built it.

Well, it should at the very least say who built it.

Agreed, keep that.

Anyways, heres a little idea chart for how the game might work:

Humans:
Stage 1:
-Every player starts with 18 BPS, enough for an armory and a medistation, or another combination of structures.
-The default layout for the map is still kept.
-Each human gains 1 BPS per kill
Stage 2:
-Every human gains an additional 8 Bps, good enough to get a DC up and a few rets. Now each human has 27 BPS.
Stage 3:
-Every human will gain another additional 8 BPS. Making it so every human has 36 BPS.

Aliens:
Stage 1:
-Every player starts with 18 BPS, enough for two tubes, or one egg and a tube, etc.
-The default layout for the map is still kept.
-Each human gains 1 BPS per kill
Stage 2:
-Every alien gains an additional 8 Bps, good enough for a booster to be up. Now each alien has 27 BPS.
Stage 3:
-Every alien will gain another additional 8 BPS. Making it so every alien has 36 BPS.

Meh, basically both teams are the same, but I put it up anyways. It seems that both teams will have players with alot of BPS, but I think it coould be balanced enough. Any suggestions will be fine, it is your idea after all Roanoke. 

[Roanoke]

That actually seems pretty well thought out. The best way to test it is to code it and make a test server, of course. What I'm afraid will happen though, is that there will be a crapload of rets/tubes at the beginning of the game, effectively preventing anyone from, say, psawing the om.

[Hendrich]

What I'm afraid will happen though, is that there will be a crapload of rets/tubes at the beginning of the game, effectively preventing anyone from, say, psawing the om.

I guess you're right when you're talking about a basic vanilla server, but in other servers with increased BPS like 150/999/etc, the same thing happens. In a way, this mod does make p-sawing harder, but it doesn't mean its impossible to do so.

Anyways, lets recap how this mod can help Tremulous:
-A new way to play, if you're bored of the old BPS system (Some people do complain about this).
-A new RPG/Leveling/etc element, you're character gets more bps if he gets more kills and has better playing skills, and more kills = getting better armour and weapons to kill with. Making you feel a bit more proud of you're character, which often leads to addiction. 
-Smart players will have to be even more cautious of feeding, because they can feed a huan like hell at one time. But this can depend. A dretch for example can get killed by 5 other humans, so its unlikely a dretch will feed the same human over and over again. But this can also backfire if that does happen, so a human gaining 1 BPS per kill seems reasonable.
-For players who bitch/whine/wham about the bps in the server, if you want more bps, get your lazy ass out of you're base and kill something.

So yea, I guess thats that. Once again, as we all know, 95% of all mod ideas never blossoms into the real thing, because its unlikely some .Qvm developer comes around and decides to do it. I have no experience with .Qvms, nor will I gain experience in the coming future. So this mod is at a stand-still for now. 

Anyways, good idea Raonoke, its one of those ideas that doesn't seem to make Tremulous seem retarded, that is, if you actually think about the idea instead of instantly calling it "Stupid".

[mooseberry]

The reason there isn't spam in Tf2 is because they only allow 1 sentry per engineer. Sure if you want to limit a certain ammount of buildables per builder, only 1 acid tube per granger, etc, there would be no spam, but... where's the fun in that?

[Roanoke]

Yes, that's correct. That's why we refuted that idea :p

[Hendrich]

Yea, I thought we went over that already, and to what Mooseberry said, thats the problem with the mod, but its not that big of an issue.

only 1 acid tube per granger, etc, there would be no spam, but... where's the fun in that?

Once upon a time, Valve made an engineer class that can make sentries that can be made from the amount of metal he obtains. But, to prevent sentry spam, they limited the number of sentries the engineer can make, and thats why building in TF2 sucks balls. The end!

[The Me]

Can't people just refill thie rmetal and spam turrets/teselas like hell?

Doesn't happen in TF2.

In TF2 each engineer can only build one one sentry

[Hendrich]

In TF2 each engineer can only build one one sentry

WE WENT OVER THAT ALREADY, READ THE ABOVE POSTS!

[ACKMAN]

http://patches.mercenariesguild.net/index.php?do=details&task_id=217&project=1&order=id&sort=desc
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I like it

[Roanoke]

Totally different concept.

[ACKMAN]

Yeah... but this is the 'Mod idea Palace'... thats another way to make 'better'(different) BP system.

[gimhael]

Well, actually the idea behind that patch is to make a better SD system....

[ACKMAN]

Its all about BP

[Roanoke]

Well, let's bunch all weapon suggestions into one thread, since it's all weapons. If you wanna show people your patch, make a new thread. If you wanna say something *not* related to this concept, start another thread.

[Urcscumug]

I personally have an issue with what I regard as artificial limitations added to the gameplay. Like limiting turrets to two per player, or allowing them to "get" more metal from thin air. Ok, it's a game and you can make anything up, but I feel that people respond better to rules that make sense and are easy to remember.

The fact that the reactor/OM can give a limited amount of energy/mind control (in both quantity and distance) is easy to understand and to remember. And you can change the gameplay by modifying the total amount per server.

[gimhael]

I think everyone can easily understand the concept that the ckit has to be reloaded at the RC, as all the other weapons work that way. I think this could be a good way to make it harder to build outposts, as the builder can carry only a limited number of BPs with him and then has to return to the base to refill (building in the main base would be hardly affected), but is this really something you want to discourage ?

As for getting more BPs for kills, I don't like it. I have experimented locally with a patch that allows the humans to get some more BPs by Scotty-style overloading their RC, but I haven't finished that patch. (There should be a downside to the overloading, like the RC becoming more vulnerable or zapping friendly buildings/players when damaged, but that part is still missing.)

Also the aliens would need a similar function to balance it out. Maybe I could just grow the OM, making it a better target, for more BPs...

[Roanoke]

Well, we never wanted to limit rets-per-player. Spamming is the problem here. To prevent that, why not only allow x of the same type of structures in proximity to each other?