Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Superpie on December 18, 2009, 04:58:07 am
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GPP means Gameplay Preview, "1.2 beta." Please don't vote based on what other people think, like some tend to do. I would like to know your personal opinion.
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I like GPP better than 1.1, it still needs a few tweaks but overall I think the gameplay is much better and more fun than 1.1.
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I really like GPP. A lot.
GPP feels more like a game that should be released than 1.1 does.
I'm not saying that GPP is not without its flaws, but I think it is absolutely excellent.
From 4v4 to 14v14, the game remains fun and playable.
@Devs: Thank you so much for putting your time into this. I feel like a lot of people don't realize that you guys have lives of your own, and are doing this out of charity.
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GPP is fine. It just has kinks that need ironing out, and needs updates such as sound/ui/models instead of solely gameplay changes.
They should really think about getting more than one developer to do everything non-code related. Maybe put some other willing community members to the grinding stone.
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I like 1.1 cause i still play it more then Gpp. But GPP is not that bad, in fact it's increasing gameplay but, as said by your face, i hope more changes in models and sounds and so on.
@Devs: Thank you so much for putting your time into this. I feel like a lot of people don't realize that you guys have lives of your own, and are doing this out of charity.
+1
And I apologize for the little whining on first GPP time.
Have Fun !!!
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I hate the new "fov" (In fact, I hate the new algorithm calculates the fov who believes that all players have 16:9 screen)
I am outraged by GPP
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I don't especially dislike GPP, I'm just waiting for 1.2 in the fullness of time.
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I like both versions of trem, although I personally prefer the changes compared to 1.1, mainly due to the shift in focus towards teamwork winning the game rather than one guy powering past defences. I feel that some of the smaller aliens now get a chance to shine in combat rather than being useless blockers. Games can still be stacked though, as some of the more skilled people tend to adapt better to the changes than others.
And at the people who want a new UI/sounds/models:
GPP means Gameplay Preview
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You know how I feel... I prefer 1.1.
PS: This topic get's the "Kaine Stamp of Approval."
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I also like GPP more than 1.1, but GPP does have a few problem still.
BTW: I selected that I like them both the same in the poll :/ you should take that into account when counting.
Sorry,
Kiwi
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I also like GPP more than 1.1, but GPP does have a few problem still.
BTW: I selected that I like them both the same in the poll :/ you should take that into account when counting.
Sorry,
Kiwi
Up at top under poll, "remove vote" then vote. ;)
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I liked more the building at 1.1, but I can live with marked decon, and the game feels smooth. Weapons seem ok in 1.2, so... I'm going with the flow.
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As a primarily alien player I'm outraged by the GPP and will likely never play 1.2 if it is released in the current state. Even the most noob bases can't be killed by aliens until they get to s3. And if the teams are evenly matched in skill (never happens because new and inexeperienced players always pick humans so the human team usually has a much lower level of skill), aliens get crushed. The GPP doesn't really seem like much of a game.
Yeah, outraged by the GPP.
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I think anyone in 1.1 who is in a clan should atleast give 1.2 a try. I mean come on atleast in the american clan scene scrims and competitive matches were a joke and I think a lot of the changes in 1.2 will help to fix that.
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I like the GPP A lot. A huge issue was fixed with the repeater tweak. Humans can now have some more map control, while in 1.1 aliens often had control of the whole map since they are not as dependent on their base. Now humans don't have to venture through miles of enemy territory to get to the alien base, a luxury which was often only granted aliens in 1.1.
I aslo like the new focus on teamplay in the aliens in GPP. Since aliens have been nerfed on the bigger classes, and buffed on the small. (basi, mara zap, is really useful.) These changes leads to less cowering in base for the human part, and less waiting-by-the-doorway killwhoring on the alien team. These were the big turn-offs with 1.1, and it's more or less gone! Good job!
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I think anyone in 1.1 who is in a clan should atleast give 1.2 a try. I mean come on atleast in the american clan scene scrims and competitive matches were a joke and I think a lot of the changes in 1.2 will help to fix that.
Quantum Field Theory.
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I like both versions of trem, although I personally prefer the changes compared to 1.1, mainly due to the shift in focus towards teamwork winning the game rather than one guy powering past defences.
Actually, GPP, I find, forces teamwork, which implies to me that gameplay will be incredibly unfun when the newbies start to fill the servers. It's hard enough to coordinate with the players that are there now.
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I like both versions of trem, although I personally prefer the changes compared to 1.1, mainly due to the shift in focus towards teamwork winning the game rather than one guy powering past defences.
Actually, GPP, I find, forces teamwork, which implies to me that gameplay will be incredibly unfun when the newbies start to fill the servers. It's hard enough to coordinate with the players that are there now.
That requires you talk to people. Half the people on trem don't even know how to chat. Especially those inhuman white name noobs...
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But if you force the noobs to work with you, they'll actually learn something, and get better.
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What, GPP does not force you to teamwork..
It just makes it more obvious that teamwork is a better option.
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But if you force the noobs to work with you, they'll actually learn something, and get better.
Care to explain how you go about that? Some people are idiots, and they don't go along with you, regardless of what you do to try and get them to.
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Yes, some people are idiots who don't care to learn, but there's also this who want to, but suck.
People learn by example.
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GPP and 1.1. Both are Tremulous, and both offer different gameplay.
Also, as Face mentioned, it would be nice to get the community more involved. The Community Spotlight was a nice step in that direction, as it showcased what people are capable of creating, however, small incentives could really help get things moving.
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prefer 1.1. (alot)
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I can not enjoy the changes. Its like riding a motorcycle for years and then being forced to drive a station wagon.
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Actually, GPP, I find, forces teamwork
I don't notice any difference in that matter between 1.1 and 1.2, tbh.
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21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP
Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...
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21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP
Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...
What this is ignoring is the base excitement which usually comes from an expansion as well. Most players were excited by a 1.2 update. I know I was. I have only come to hate it after playing it, ans seen how it ruins the game. Seriously why make goon chomp useless, and then overpower pounce? That's not in any way fun... either as a human or as an alien.
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Try playing as other classes, and more than a few games.
And I enjoy it, I find it more fun that 1.1 really.
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i voted; goin with the flow. gpp has some getting used to. over time, i think gpp will have more teamwork as plague bringer said. it's pretty hard to win as the best on your team now especially that bases are harder to kill when they are built 1.2 style. add some alien attacking graphics like those mara claws, new weapon models, a few more classes, a few more weapons, maybe more structures, more maps and 1.2 could turn out to be good. 1.1 is good enough but having more couldn't hurt.
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Try playing as other classes, and more than a few games.
And I enjoy it, I find it more fun that 1.1 really.
we all have.
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Both have their problems, both have their quirks, and nevertheless both are fun.
I find that the 1.2 beta does rely on people having to work together whereas in 1.1, everyone is expected to do their part in their own way.
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Try playing as other classes, and more than a few games.
And I enjoy it, I find it more fun that 1.1 really.
we all have.
No, you most definitely have not.
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Try playing as other classes, and more than a few games.
And I enjoy it, I find it more fun that 1.1 really.
we all have.
No, you most definitely have not.
Once again ;) You dont have to be amazing at something, to experience it, and critisize or make a comment on it.
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Ok, but no one is going to take someone who has been playing the piano for 1 week too seriously if he starts criticizing the instrument.
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21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP
Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...
Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.
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Ok, but no one is going to take someone who has been playing the piano for 1 week too seriously if he starts criticizing the instrument.
Piano is far too generalised, the equivalent of the piano would be games, or pc games.
A certain piano would be more in the same class as a single game. And a critic forms an opinion of an instrument over a matter of weeks, and posts a review, relying on his knowledge of other pianos (other games)
Also, lets not go into this here, we'd end up taking 1000 pages, if you want to argue this point some more, you know where to find me ;)
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Surely Instruments and Games would be equivalent, with then Piano and Tremulous being equivalent, and Specific Piano's being like different clients / 1.2?
But whatever, way off topic >_>
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21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP
Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...
Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.
hmm?
I like 1.2 and GPP - 3 (17.1%)
I like 1.1 more than GPP - 21 (27.6%)
I like GPP more than 1.1 - 26 (34.2%)
I am outraged by GPP - 6 (7.9%)
I'm just going with the flow - 10 (13.2%)
3+10=13 so 13 are impartial, and/or dont mind
21+6=27 so 27 dont like GPP over 1.1
26=26 so 26 like GPP over 1.1
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21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP
Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...
And the people who are outraged? :P
23 people don't care.
27 people like 1.1 more
26 like gpp more
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Surely Instruments and Games would be equivalent, with then Piano and Tremulous being equivalent, and Specific Piano's being like different clients / 1.2?
But whatever, way off topic >_>
OK FINAL POST ON THIS CRAZY OFF TOPIC-DOM PROMISE!
instruments=games
intrument=pc game
piano=specific game
My point is, you can draw loads of different comparisons, and theres no way of proving which one is correct. However, what me and apple keep arguing, is that he thinks that because i am not amazing at tremulous, my opinion on whether or not GPP works, carrys no weight. Which i argue is clearly false, as game critics dont have to be good at games, they just need to have experience of games.
But anyways no more on this tangent, promise ;)
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21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP
Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...
And the people who are outraged? :P
23 people don't care.
27 people like 1.1 more
26 like gpp more
Huff! Huff!
I cant keep up lol, that quote, was from a time which what i said was correct, however since then, more people voted. look at my more recent post.
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Oops, wrong page number. :D
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i think gpp has the potential to be way better that 1.1, i like both but gpp still could use some serious work
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Surely Instruments and Games would be equivalent, with then Piano and Tremulous being equivalent, and Specific Piano's being like different clients / 1.2?
But whatever, way off topic >_>
OK FINAL POST ON THIS CRAZY OFF TOPIC-DOM PROMISE!
instruments=games
intrument=pc game
piano=specific game
My point is, you can draw loads of different comparisons, and theres no way of proving which one is correct. However, what me and apple keep arguing, is that he thinks that because i am not amazing at tremulous, my opinion on whether or not GPP works, carrys no weight. Which i argue is clearly false, as game critics dont have to be good at games, they just need to have experience of games.
But anyways no more on this tangent, promise ;)
And why does that matter? Since when are critics always correct? Look at NBA announcers/critics - most of them don't offer useful opinions. The ones that do usually ignore a lot of important information just to make their point.
My point is that unless you have truly experienced something yourself, everything you say is just based on assumptions. Besides, my argument is no longer that you suck so much that you shouldn't have an opinion; it's that you play 1.2 so rarely that you don't deserve an opinion. My analogy has nothing to do with the specifics of a piano; it simply means that one rarely can form a very good opinion of something after only using it for a short period of time, as you are attempting to do. And please don't try to claim that you play 1.2 very often; I have seen you maybe once in the past 4 months, especially recently, and I've been playing a lot more recently.
Just look at me; I waited almost 4 months before feeling comfortable enough with 1.2 to really begin commenting on the balance, and I know a lot more about tremulous tactics/gameplay than you do.
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i have a promise to keep. So i'll just say that i have played GPP quite a bit (since we've last talked, quite a damn bit), i myself wouldnt say i had a valid point to make if i hadnt played GPP.
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21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP
Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...
Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and 10 (*edit* forgot to put that number in) who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.
hmm?
I like 1.2 and GPP - 3 (17.1%)
I like 1.1 more than GPP - 21 (27.6%)
I like GPP more than 1.1 - 26 (34.2%)
I am outraged by GPP - 6 (7.9%)
I'm just going with the flow - 10 (13.2%)
3+10=13 so 13 are impartial, and/or dont mind
21+6=27 so 27 dont like GPP over 1.1
26=26 so 26 like GPP over 1.1
Uhh...
First of all, you missed a 1 in the "I like GPP and 1.1" section, which means you are off by a factor of 10.
Now, let's see if you know how to read.
I said 39 who like GPP, not who prefer GPP over 1.1, this isn't a popularity competition, it's seeing how many people enjoy GPP.
26 like GPP more than 1.1, and 13 like GPP and 1.1. 13+26= 39 people who like GPP Wow, that was complicated wasn't it?
21 people said they like 1.1 more than GPP, while 6 say they are outraged over GPP. If we are assuming that all 21 people who voted they like 1.1 more than GPP don't like GPP at all, (which may or may not be so) that is 21+6=27 people who don't like GPP.
There are also 10 people who voted "going with the flow" which most likely means they don't like/dislike either 1.1 or GPP enough to have a strong opinion.
Now, let's compare this with my earlier post:
Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.
Wow that's weird... Learn to read FFS.
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i have a promise to keep. So i'll just say that i have played GPP quite a bit (since we've last talked, quite a damn bit), i myself wouldnt say i had a valid point to make if i hadnt played GPP.
Except I have never seen you play it, and you're nowhere to be seen in tremstats. Keep making shit up, it's a great waste of time
Also, nice excuse for not having a logical response
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While I like 1.2 there are a few things that bug me.
1. Any reliance on stats is scary. It is impossible to control for player skill. There are players that try to keep the teams even because having a whole bunch of stacked games is not fun, and then there are players that stack games on purpose to influence the stats. If a player does either of these, the stats are screwed. Poor building can also potentially screw up stats, especially since its easier to screw up building on humans than building on aliens (a potentially source of skew away from humans).
2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Humans seem to stage up to s2/s3 or get cash faster than aliens in general. If this is true, would it create the impression that humans are imbalanced, without effecting win statistics (assuming that they are at least partially valid) much? Would this also be consistent with the current statistics saying that humans get a greater percentage of kills than aliens in general? How would people feel if we tried to balance kills instead of wins (provided we kept wins at a reasonable ratio)?
3. Repeaters in s1 tend to win the game for humans if used. Ele room on Karith, Nexus6 alien rear entrance (this one is particularly horrible), even atcs hall sometimes, though because of the maps size and usual player count the humans are less likely to get a ret and medi up before s2.
4. This one has irked me for a while, and I don't mind it that much, but still: why does the mara have to rely upon strafe jumping in order to be able to run away from humans? It seems that every time I jump off of a wall my velocity is reset, so that if I am to strafejump, I have to avoid walls like the plague. This seems counter intuitive to me, I always thought the mara was supposed to be good at jumping off walls.
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4. This one has irked me for a while, and I don't mind it that much, but still: why does the mara have to rely upon strafe jumping in order to be able to run away from humans? It seems that every time I jump off of a wall my velocity is reset, so that if I am to strafejump, I have to avoid walls like the plague. This seems counter intuitive to me, I always thought the mara was supposed to be good at jumping off walls.
I hate it, but she goes up now, not forward. All I've got to say about that is there better be a bunch of extremely vertical maps in 1.2.
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There are players that try to keep the teams even because having a whole bunch of stacked games is not fun, and then there are players that stack games on purpose to influence the stats. If a player does either of these, the stats are screwed.
A large enough sampling should substantially decrease the significance of a single player's skill or (temporary—as in the case of "not trying" against opponents who are not as good) lack thereof.
Poor building can also potentially screw up stats, especially since its easier to screw up building on humans than building on aliens (a potentially source of skew away from humans).
If building for humans requires substantially more skill than for aliens, that impacts the balance of the game and should be properly reflected in the stats.
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There are players that try to keep the teams even because having a whole bunch of stacked games is not fun, and then there are players that stack games on purpose to influence the stats. If a player does either of these, the stats are screwed.
A large enough sampling should substantially decrease the significance of a single player's skill or (temporary—as in the case of "not trying" against opponents who are not as good) lack thereof.
Poor building can also potentially screw up stats, especially since its easier to screw up building on humans than building on aliens (a potentially source of skew away from humans).
If building for humans requires substantially more skill than for aliens, that impacts the balance of the game and should be properly reflected in the stats.
I thought it was? Don't humans lose more?
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Except I have never seen you play it, and you're nowhere to be seen in tremstats. Keep making shit up, it's a great waste of time
Not that I've followed the discussion, but not everyone is using the same nick at the forum and in the game. I, for example, don't.
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@moose
Well it is a popularity contest. If you look at the title, it is "Opinions of 1.1 vs Gameplay Preview" not "Do you like GPP?"
@Apple
your not the only one who knows how to alt, i can pm you my alt if you want to check it on the stats.
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What, GPP does not force you to teamwork..
It just makes it more obvious that teamwork is a better option.
Can you pls explain this? I am an average player and starting to learn how to play aliens properly. But I do not see how teamwork is required. I am still seeing good goons killing a base of human noobs alone and I still see good human players killing a noob team of aliens.
Just seen yesterday: A very exprienced human player rushed into the alien base (map: nexus) and a few minutes later alien players had about 20 points each and the human player more than 300. I did not see that the human player required much teamwork against 5 opponents.
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Up at top under poll, "remove vote" then vote. ;)
Ah, thanks =D
Also, I'm sure these have been posted already, but there are a few bugs left.
- When you are typing a "/command" into the normal chat talk (using t or y, not the console), you type "/" then the curser goes behind the "/"
For example, when you type "/adminhelp" in the normal chat talk, it comes out as "adminhelp/" - Another slight bug is every time I turn tremulous on, I have to go back into options and turn toggle wall walk off, then back on. Even though it defaults to having it on, it still doesn't work unless you toggle it to off then back on. And you have to do this every time you turn tremulous on.
Also, I'd like to let you know I'm running the mac client (not sure if it matter, but I figured I'd say it).
Thanks,
Kiwi
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Props to amz181 for fearlessness, at least.
He's singlehandedly arguing with ~3 people at once about uniquely different things.
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and failing miserably
he reminds me of Sarah Palin
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i think you all suck
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@moose
Well it is a popularity contest. If you look at the title, it is "Opinions of 1.1 vs Gameplay Preview" not "Do you like GPP?"
Oh dear. This goes back to your reading issues I'm afraid. If it said 1.1 vs GPP, then it would be a big fight. But it doesn't. It's opinions of of 1.1 and GPP, (if english is your second language I'm sorry and I'll explain that the vs in this situation does not neccesarily imply a conflict, ((as seen in the poll options))). Some people have "Opinions of 1.1 vs Gameplay Preview" that 1.1 is superior to GPP, some the other way around. And some like both equally.
And so, it's 42 who like GPP, 30 who don't like GPP, and 10 who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.
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@moose
English is my 1st lang so dont worry, i can keep up :P I cant see where your diverging...
14 people both like 1.1 and gpp
22 for 1.1
28 for gpp
outraged are 8, which implys (strongly) that they prefer 1.1
10 for people going with the flow, so impartial...
Positive opinion of GPP vs 1.1 = 14+28= 42
Positive opinion of 1.1 vs GPP = 14+22+8= 44
agreed?
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Positive opinion of GPP vs 1.1 = 14+28= 42
Positive opinion of 1.1 vs GPP = 14+22+8= 44
agreed?
Yes.
(I like GPP and 1.1 - 14
I like 1.1 more than GPP - 22
I like GPP more than 1.1 - 28
I am outraged by GPP - 10
I am just going with the flow - 10
Of 84 voters;
FOR: 28 = 28 (33%)
AGAINST: 22 + 10 = 32 (38%)
IMPARTIAL/UNDECIDED/MIXED: 14 + 10 =24 (29%)
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yay, we finally got there. Totally worth the page of comments :P
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There are players that try to keep the teams even because having a whole bunch of stacked games is not fun, and then there are players that stack games on purpose to influence the stats. If a player does either of these, the stats are screwed.
A large enough sampling should substantially decrease the significance of a single player's skill or (temporary—as in the case of "not trying" against opponents who are not as good) lack thereof.
That would be true if people did not make an effort (consciously or unconsciously) to change the balance of the teams (ie. if auto-select was forced). It also would be true if this happened only in a small proportion of games. However, nearly every game is effected by this to a degree (newbies usually pick humans), and I think most of the names I recognize (Cadynum, Garoth, etc) fall into one of the categories I mentioned. If even half (a low figure IMO) of the US server games are effected in this way then we have a significant problem with the stats.
Poor building can also potentially screw up stats, especially since its easier to screw up building on humans than building on aliens (a potentially source of skew away from humans).
If building for humans requires substantially more skill than for aliens, that impacts the balance of the game and should be properly reflected in the stats.
It should most certainly not be reflected in the minds of the developers, or at least not as much as the stats are now. And if it is not to effect the devs' decisions, then it should not be reflected in the stats (if we are going to even use the stats). People adapt to changes, but don't do so instantly. I believe that was an argument the devs used to keep the new turrets around, instead of reverting it immediately after people started to majorly fail at a building. In fact, I think this was taken into account for a lot of the changes. This means that, over time, the balance will shift. I want 1.2 to remain 'balanced' in three years. We should assume that people don't stay newbie builders forever, and that good players are able to /callvote denybuild (or designate when lakitu's qvm is ported to 1.2) so that newbie builders don't cause a 7 minute game-over every fourth game.
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I agree with the above, for the old school players, those who have played 1.1 for ages the new changes are stuffing around with the way they play. Changes like what we are seeing require a different mindset. It could be fair to say that if the devs and people who are in this new mindset are ok with the changes then let them roll.
The changes WILL cause some old school players to leave, that's natural, some pple don't like change and can't adapt. It's also what was experienced when trem moved to 1.1 from 1.0. Those who want to stick around and learn the new way will do so. If Trem 1.2 is as good as the hype (seldom is, but even if it's halfway there) then it will attract new players.
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1.1 won't be going anywhere, people can keep playing as long as there are servers. (And AFAIR at least a few servers have said they won't be updating).
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1.1 won't be going anywhere, people can keep playing as long as there are servers. (And AFAIR at least a few servers have said they won't be updating).
Would be nice to be able to see those servers with 1.2 in the future.
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The netcode has changed, can't play both from the same client.
Someone will probably make a 1.1 gameplay mod soon enough.
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The netcode has changed, can't play both from the same client.
Someone will probably make a 1.1 gameplay mod soon enough.
I sort of had that in mind, but is it not possible to link the two in some way? Say, I have both installed, and I want to revert to 1.1. Let's also say that there is a cvar that I have to define which holds 1.1's executable location on my system. Once I type in a command (whatever that may be), 1.2 shuts down, and 1.1 is started, and possibly vice versa.
Too much work?
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Just put 2 shortcuts on your desktop.
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Forum users don't represent tremulous players. We are only a portion of the regular players. Most of the players don't mind the changes. They are accustomed to play on servers with different game-plays. GPP, 1.1, AA, AU, UBP, X, ... same for them
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It would be fun to try to playtest it more, but there is never anyone on. I think that's cause there are some serious problems with it. One of the biggest being that no one wants to play dretch. With the new dodge it's tuff man, bein' a dretch in a luci owned world.
Course it's tuff too fighting with a rifle against rants and goons. Thing I'd like to see the most would be control points. Force the teams to come out and fight over rebuild points. If a team doesn't control any rebuild points on the map, their build points wol't regenerate. That'll get teams to come out and stop camping, or end the game real fast. Either way would work.
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Domination has already been ported. And the last couple of weeks there's always been at least someone playing.
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I think Gigantic PP is pretty nice but I still prefer 1.1 because of how the Aliens gameplay was. Also, Nerf lucifer/st. anger.