Opinions of 1.1 vs Gameplay Preview

[amz181]

Try playing as other classes, and more than a few games.
And I enjoy it, I find it more fun that 1.1 really.

we all have.

[Hendrich]

Both have their problems, both have their quirks, and nevertheless both are fun.

I find that the 1.2 beta does rely on people having to work together whereas in 1.1, everyone is expected to do their part in their own way.

[AppleJuice]

Try playing as other classes, and more than a few games.
And I enjoy it, I find it more fun that 1.1 really.

we all have.

No, you most definitely have not.

[amz181]

Try playing as other classes, and more than a few games.
And I enjoy it, I find it more fun that 1.1 really.

we all have.

No, you most definitely have not.

Once again You dont have to be amazing at something, to experience it, and critisize or make a comment on it.

[AppleJuice]

Ok, but no one is going to take someone who has been playing the piano for 1 week too seriously if he starts criticizing the instrument.

[mooseberry]

21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP

Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...

Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.

[amz181]

Ok, but no one is going to take someone who has been playing the piano for 1 week too seriously if he starts criticizing the instrument.

Piano is far too generalised, the equivalent of the piano would be games, or pc games.

A certain piano would be more in the same class as a single game. And a critic forms an opinion of an instrument over a matter of weeks, and posts a review, relying on his knowledge of other pianos (other games)

Also, lets not go into this here, we'd end up taking 1000 pages, if you want to argue this point some more, you know where to find me

[David]

Surely Instruments and Games would be equivalent, with then Piano and Tremulous being equivalent, and Specific Piano's being like different clients / 1.2?

But whatever, way off topic >_>

[amz181]

21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP

Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...

Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.

hmm?

I like 1.2 and GPP              -         3 (17.1%)
I like 1.1 more than GPP    -     21 (27.6%)
I like GPP more than 1.1    -     26 (34.2%)
I am outraged by GPP            -      6 (7.9%)
I'm just going with the flow    -     10 (13.2%)

3+10=13 so 13 are impartial, and/or dont mind
21+6=27 so 27 dont like GPP over 1.1
26=26 so 26 like GPP over 1.1

[your face]

21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP

Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...

And the people who are outraged?

23 people don't care.
27 people like 1.1 more
26 like gpp more

[amz181]

Surely Instruments and Games would be equivalent, with then Piano and Tremulous being equivalent, and Specific Piano's being like different clients / 1.2?

But whatever, way off topic >_>

OK FINAL POST ON THIS CRAZY OFF TOPIC-DOM PROMISE!

instruments=games
intrument=pc game
piano=specific game

My point is, you can draw loads of different comparisons, and theres no way of proving which one is correct. However, what me and apple keep arguing, is that he thinks that because i am not amazing at tremulous, my opinion on whether or not GPP works, carrys no weight. Which i argue is clearly false, as game critics dont have to be good at games, they just need to have experience of games.

But anyways no more on this tangent, promise

[amz181]

21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP

Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...

And the people who are outraged?

23 people don't care.
27 people like 1.1 more
26 like gpp more

Huff! Huff!

I cant keep up lol, that quote, was from a time which what i said was correct, however since then, more people voted. look at my more recent post.

[your face]

Oops, wrong page number.

[SOULd3rsnake]

i think gpp has the potential to be way better that 1.1, i like both but gpp still could use some serious work

[AppleJuice]

Surely Instruments and Games would be equivalent, with then Piano and Tremulous being equivalent, and Specific Piano's being like different clients / 1.2?

But whatever, way off topic >_>

OK FINAL POST ON THIS CRAZY OFF TOPIC-DOM PROMISE!

instruments=games
intrument=pc game
piano=specific game

My point is, you can draw loads of different comparisons, and theres no way of proving which one is correct. However, what me and apple keep arguing, is that he thinks that because i am not amazing at tremulous, my opinion on whether or not GPP works, carrys no weight. Which i argue is clearly false, as game critics dont have to be good at games, they just need to have experience of games.

But anyways no more on this tangent, promise

And why does that matter? Since when are critics always correct? Look at NBA announcers/critics - most of them don't offer useful opinions. The ones that do usually ignore a lot of important information just to make their point.

My point is that unless you have truly experienced something yourself, everything you say is just based on assumptions. Besides, my argument is no longer that you suck so much that you shouldn't have an opinion; it's that you play 1.2 so rarely that you don't deserve an opinion. My analogy has nothing to do with the specifics of a piano; it simply means that one rarely can form a very good opinion of something after only using it for a short period of time, as you are attempting to do. And please don't try to claim that you play 1.2 very often; I have seen you maybe once in the past 4 months, especially recently, and I've been playing a lot more recently.

Just look at me; I waited almost 4 months before feeling comfortable enough with 1.2 to really begin commenting on the balance, and I know a lot more about tremulous tactics/gameplay than you do.

[amz181]

i have a promise to keep. So i'll just say that i have played GPP quite a bit (since we've last talked, quite a damn bit), i myself wouldnt say i had a valid point to make if i hadnt played GPP.

[mooseberry]

21 who dont mind GPP
26 who are against GPP
23 who are for GPP

Not as clear cut as alot of people are making out...

Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and 10 (*edit* forgot to put that number in) who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.

hmm?

I like 1.2 and GPP              -         3 (17.1%)
I like 1.1 more than GPP    -     21 (27.6%)
I like GPP more than 1.1    -     26 (34.2%)
I am outraged by GPP            -      6 (7.9%)
I'm just going with the flow    -     10 (13.2%)

3+10=13 so 13 are impartial, and/or dont mind
21+6=27 so 27 dont like GPP over 1.1
26=26 so 26 like GPP over 1.1

Uhh...

First of all, you missed a 1 in the "I like GPP and 1.1" section, which means you are off by a factor of 10.

Now, let's see if you know how to read.

I said 39 who like GPP, not who prefer GPP over 1.1, this isn't a popularity competition, it's seeing how many people enjoy GPP.

26 like GPP more than 1.1, and 13 like GPP and 1.1. 13+26= 39 people who like GPP Wow, that was complicated wasn't it?

21 people said they like 1.1 more than GPP, while 6 say they are outraged over GPP. If we are assuming that all 21 people who voted they like 1.1 more than GPP don't like GPP at all, (which may or may not be so) that is 21+6=27 people who don't like GPP.

There are also 10 people who voted "going with the flow" which most likely means they don't like/dislike either 1.1 or GPP enough to have a strong opinion.

Now, let's compare this with my earlier post:

Currently it's 39 who like GPP, 27 who don't like GPP, and who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.

Wow that's weird... Learn to read FFS.

[AppleJuice]

i have a promise to keep. So i'll just say that i have played GPP quite a bit (since we've last talked, quite a damn bit), i myself wouldnt say i had a valid point to make if i hadnt played GPP.

Except I have never seen you play it, and you're nowhere to be seen in tremstats. Keep making shit up, it's a great waste of time
Also, nice excuse for not having a logical response

[F50]

While I like 1.2 there are a few things that bug me.

1. Any reliance on stats is scary. It is impossible to control for player skill. There are players that try to keep the teams even because having a whole bunch of stacked games is not fun, and then there are players that stack games on purpose to influence the stats. If a player does either of these, the stats are screwed. Poor building can also potentially screw up stats, especially since its easier to screw up building on humans than building on aliens (a potentially source of skew away from humans).

2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Humans seem to stage up to s2/s3 or get cash faster than aliens in general. If this is true, would it create the impression that humans are imbalanced, without effecting win statistics (assuming that they are at least partially valid) much? Would this also be consistent with the current statistics saying that humans get a greater percentage of kills than aliens in general? How would people feel if we tried to balance kills instead of wins (provided we kept wins at a reasonable ratio)?

3. Repeaters in s1 tend to win the game for humans if used. Ele room on Karith, Nexus6 alien rear entrance (this one is particularly horrible), even atcs hall sometimes, though because of the maps size and usual player count the humans are less likely to get a ret and medi up before s2.

4. This one has irked me for a while, and I don't mind it that much, but still: why does the mara have to rely upon strafe jumping in order to be able to run away from humans? It seems that every time I jump off of a wall my velocity is reset, so that if I am to strafejump, I have to avoid walls like the plague. This seems counter intuitive to me, I always thought the mara was supposed to be good at jumping off walls.

[Plague Bringer]

4. This one has irked me for a while, and I don't mind it that much, but still: why does the mara have to rely upon strafe jumping in order to be able to run away from humans? It seems that every time I jump off of a wall my velocity is reset, so that if I am to strafejump, I have to avoid walls like the plague. This seems counter intuitive to me, I always thought the mara was supposed to be good at jumping off walls.

I hate it, but she goes up now, not forward. All I've got to say about that is there better be a bunch of extremely vertical maps in 1.2.

[Undeference]

There are players that try to keep the teams even because having a whole bunch of stacked games is not fun, and then there are players that stack games on purpose to influence the stats. If a player does either of these, the stats are screwed.

A large enough sampling should substantially decrease the significance of a single player's skill or (temporary—as in the case of "not trying" against opponents who are not as good) lack thereof.

Poor building can also potentially screw up stats, especially since its easier to screw up building on humans than building on aliens (a potentially source of skew away from humans).

If building for humans requires substantially more skill than for aliens, that impacts the balance of the game and should be properly reflected in the stats.

[Celestial_Rage]

There are players that try to keep the teams even because having a whole bunch of stacked games is not fun, and then there are players that stack games on purpose to influence the stats. If a player does either of these, the stats are screwed.

A large enough sampling should substantially decrease the significance of a single player's skill or (temporary—as in the case of "not trying" against opponents who are not as good) lack thereof.

Poor building can also potentially screw up stats, especially since its easier to screw up building on humans than building on aliens (a potentially source of skew away from humans).

If building for humans requires substantially more skill than for aliens, that impacts the balance of the game and should be properly reflected in the stats.

I thought it was? Don't humans lose more?

[jal]

Except I have never seen you play it, and you're nowhere to be seen in tremstats. Keep making shit up, it's a great waste of time

Not that I've followed the discussion, but not everyone is using the same nick at the forum and in the game. I, for example, don't.

[amz181]

@moose

Well it is a popularity contest. If you look at the title, it is "Opinions of 1.1 vs Gameplay Preview" not "Do you like GPP?"

@Apple

your not the only one who knows how to alt, i can pm you my alt if you want to check it on the stats.

[resta247]

What, GPP does not force you to teamwork..
It just makes it more obvious that teamwork is a better option.

Can you pls explain this? I am an average player and starting to learn how to play aliens properly. But I do not see how teamwork is required. I am still seeing good goons killing a base of human noobs alone and I still see good human players killing a noob team of aliens.

Just seen yesterday: A very exprienced human player rushed into the alien base (map: nexus) and a few minutes later alien players had about 20 points each and the human player more than 300. I did not see that the human player required much teamwork against 5 opponents.

[Kiwi]

Up at top under poll, "remove vote" then vote.  

Ah, thanks =D
Also, I'm sure these have been posted already, but there are a few bugs left.

• When you are typing a "/command" into the normal chat talk (using t or y, not the console), you type "/" then the curser goes behind the "/"
  For example, when you type "/adminhelp" in the normal chat talk, it comes out as "adminhelp/"
• Another slight bug is every time I turn tremulous on, I have to go back into options and turn toggle wall walk off, then back on.  Even though it defaults to having it on, it still doesn't work unless you toggle it to off then back on.  And you have to do this every time you turn tremulous on.

Also, I'd like to let you know I'm running the mac client (not sure if it matter, but I figured I'd say it).

Thanks,
Kiwi

[Perish]

Props to amz181 for fearlessness, at least.

He's singlehandedly arguing with ~3 people at once about uniquely different things.

[AppleJuice]

and failing miserably
he reminds me of Sarah Palin

[your face]

i think you all suck

[mooseberry]

@moose

Well it is a popularity contest. If you look at the title, it is "Opinions of 1.1 vs Gameplay Preview" not "Do you like GPP?"

Oh dear. This goes back to your reading issues I'm afraid. If it said 1.1 vs GPP, then it would be a big fight. But it doesn't. It's opinions of of 1.1 and GPP, (if english is your second language I'm sorry and I'll explain that the vs in this situation does not neccesarily imply a conflict, ((as seen in the poll options))). Some people have "Opinions of 1.1 vs Gameplay Preview" that 1.1 is superior to GPP, some the other way around. And some like both equally.

And so, it's 42 who like GPP, 30 who don't like GPP, and 10 who are "going with the flow" which means they probably don't mind GPP.