Poll: Were you aware that your chats are being publicly posted?

[cron]

I wasn't aware that with TremStats, all in-game chats, including team chats, are posted publicly (example: http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/game_log.php?game_id=420 ). My feeling is that it's wrong to post these without the player's consent or knowledge, but the Tremulous developers say it's up the server admins to decide if it will be posted.

<@Timbo> it's the server owners you want to complain to

So, I'm asking the server admins:

• If you are reposting my chats, why?
• What steps are you taking to inform your players that everything they say will be public?
• If you aren't warning them, why not?

[khalsa]

• If you are logging my chats, why?

All chats on all servers are logged, always.

• What steps are you taking to inform your players that everything they say will be public?

None (atm)

• If you aren't warning them, why not?

As with everything on the internet (and in real-life too) that is done in public... is Public

[cron]

• If you are logging my chats, why?

All chats on all servers are logged, always.

I changed the question now, to more accurately ask what I want to know about.

[Norfenstein]

The question is misleading. As with any kind of server on the internet, what happens with the information you send it is entirely up to the people that control the server. So if you're not playing somewhere that doesn't "post your chats" then your chats are not being publicly posted.

[KillerWhale]

Everything you say and do ingame is logged by whatever server you're on.
The exception is PMs, which can be read if someone is SSHed into the server as you send them.

Every server that has Tremstats is in this EXACT situation.
This is a nonthreat to anyone's privacy in my opinion.

Everything you have done that is logged is already public and stored, I don't see the big issue all of a sudden.

FUD.

[David]

private messages go to the log too.

[Plague Bringer]

This is a very good way to verify bans based on things such as racism or other text-based reasons. It's also very handy verifying bans regarding deconning. I'm not quite sure what the problem is. You say something to your team or the whole lobby, why is it so horrible that it's posted for all the players to see? One should have the sense not to say something they would not want other people hearing.

[bob0]

Nothing stops clients from recording all public chat in demos.  Some people set them up to record every game.

[amz181]

Guys, i know what this is about.

Yesterday Cron admitted to me that he had harboured a secret virulent attraction to  .

Secrets out cron. Soz.

[Bissig]

Cron: you play on public servers. All you do there, except for PMs is PUBLIC. Same for posting on a forum in an open section: it is P U B L I C.

[cron]

I'm aware that these are public, however, that doesn't mean that it's KNOWN to anyone who isn't connected to the server. The re-posting of these logs ensures that ANYONE can see them, at any time.

[kevlarman]

I'm aware that these are public, however, that doesn't mean that it's KNOWN to anyone who isn't connected to the server. The re-posting of these logs ensures that ANYONE can see them, at any time.

the same is true of people posting condumps or extracting chat from demos.

[Bajsefar]

Way to pick at trivialities.

"guys, did you know that if you talk about something PRIVATE to anyone on the bus, people on the bus might hear it, and tell it to ANYONE. IMO that is WRONG, people should not be able to retell what i said!"

[Hendrich]

If you want to talk to someone/others in private, there are other ways to do that. I don't have a problem with my chats being logged.

But I share my concern with Cron that this is the kind of info I would rather have available for me to know then have no one to take any steps with informing me. This isn't anything important (Like Bajsesfar said, its just trivial), but I would want the public to know about this somewhere.

This is a concern because I have been playing Tremulous for years and never knew about it. I never bothered to question about it because I assumed chats were not logged publicly.

[MitSugna]

I don't care I am an exhibitionist

[tuple]

All chats/pms are logged on every server.  Always have been as far as I know.  There was even a push a while back to get servers to not log such things so that people could be assured that they were private.  Clearly this is even more misleading since any server owner could modify the code to log it anyways.

Saying something on the server that isn't posted publicly isn't limited to those on the server, its also available to server owners, many server admins and anyone who ever gets those logs.  This is true of every trem server.

There isn't anything you can do about it but consider yourself warned

People even post chat from servers here

[Bajsefar]

Lihm'd at this thread.

[cron]

Way to pick at trivialities.

"guys, did you know that if you talk about something PRIVATE to anyone on the bus, people on the bus might hear it, and tell it to ANYONE. IMO that is WRONG, people should not be able to retell what i said!"

You're doing it wrong.

It'd be more like the bus company publishing everything that was said on their bus, regardless of who was there to hear it.

[Plague Bringer]

Way to pick at trivialities.

"guys, did you know that if you talk about something PRIVATE to anyone on the bus, people on the bus might hear it, and tell it to ANYONE. IMO that is WRONG, people should not be able to retell what i said!"

You're doing it wrong.

It'd be more like the bus company publishing everything that was said on their bus, regardless of who was there to hear it.

Dude, you're recorded and stuff's posted. Muffin. It's excellent for security purposes. Don't talk about raping kiddies and you're alright.
Yes, we're recorded and our chats are posted.
No, most of us don't know.
But answer me logically and reasonably, what is the harm?

[mooseberry]

Way to pick at trivialities.

"guys, did you know that if you talk about something PRIVATE to anyone on the bus, people on the bus might hear it, and tell it to ANYONE. IMO that is WRONG, people should not be able to retell what i said!"

You're doing it wrong.

It'd be more like the bus company publishing everything that was said on their bus, regardless of who was there to hear it.

Dude, you're recorded and stuff's posted. Muffin. It's excellent for security purposes. Don't talk about raping kiddies and you're alright.
Yes, we're recorded and our chats are posted.
No, most of us don't know.
But answer me logically and reasonably, what is the harm?

You are recorded yes, but bus companies don't post their records on a publicly available website for everyone to see.

[cron]

But answer me logically and reasonably, what is the harm?

The harm in it, is that it creates a potential for abuse or misuse of this information by anyone, anywhere, at any later time.

If I'm playing on a server, I don't generally care if the server operator sees the chats. I don't care that spectators can see it. I don't care that they can post the condump or extract the text from a demo. That would be on their conscious if they post anything that can be harmful to others later.

I have no problem with the logging of game activities and the chats themselves, it's the automatic reposting of said logs, and the fact that people aren't aware that it's happening that's the issue.

One possible example of how this could be bad:

Let's say you're playing on a server, and a friend of yours asks for your email address. You look at the player list (and let's just assume that you know and trust everyone there) so you go ahead and tell them. So, no harm done. Right? Wrong. Now your email address is known publicly and accessible to anyone on the Internet. Now you can expect spam in your inbox, once the address is found by spammers.

What if it wasn't your email address that you typed in, but your home phone number? What if it was your mumble server's password? The list could go on and on...

Does this still seem like a minor thing to you? Well, what if you ARE a minor?

Most of the people on these forums don't have kids, so try to imagine this from a parent's perspective: Your kid thought they were just telling their friends something, but in reality they just gave their personal info away to the entire world.

So again, my point is: The players aren't aware of the fact that anything that they say, can and will be posted for everyone to see. And that's wrong, in my opinion.

This might not seem like a big deal to you guys, and the results of the poll certainly show that that's the general attitude, but as someone who's just trying to look out for my own privacy, and possibly protect the privacy of others, I'll continue to make an issue of this until I'm satisfied that people are being thoroughly informed of the implications and warned of the possible consequences of sharing any info in Tremulous games.

Murphy's law: "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong."

[Plague Bringer]

But answer me logically and reasonably, what is the harm?

TL;DR: Murphy's law.

Points taken. We should be informed that this information is being posted (spash screen that stuff, Devs!).

[Undeference]

as someone who's just trying to look out for my own privacy, and possibly protect the privacy of others,…

I'll finish that sentence for you: "don't post your personal information on the internet."

According to Murphy's law, even if no servers ever posted logs, the information would still manage to get out there.

[cron]

as someone who's just trying to look out for my own privacy, and possibly protect the privacy of others,…

I'll finish that sentence for you: "don't post your personal information on the internet."

According to Murphy's law, even if no servers ever posted logs, the information would still manage to get out there.

As always, that's good advice. However, because people aren't smart (especially in-game), the responsible thing to do would be to NOT post the logs, or at the very least warn them that it will be posted.

Don't prove Mr. Murphy right by creating a situation where stuff will go wrong, easier.

Really, what purpose does posting these logs serve?

[Bissig]

1. Logs aren't posted
2. To give out email or other personal information use the fucking PRIVATE messages

[SlackerLinux]

i think hes talking about tremstats random quote thing that's the only publicly posted chat thing that most servers have that i know of.
i dont really see any full chatlog thing in it its just 1 random message you sent.

maybe you could put a check for email format in tremstats to exclude those i dont really think its an issue you said something in a public server so it isnt really that sensitive of information.

the random quote things kinda useless anyway maybe just remove it.

[khalsa]

No, they are posted: e.g. http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/game_log.php?game_id=1539

I added some disclaimers yesterday. All fixed

[|Jack|]

Why do you care? You shouldn't be talking dirty to people in tremulous anyway or else this person  will come to your house and think your a pedophile... Just go on msn for private chat 

[Bajsefar]

Ok, Mister Cron. You made me change my mind. Publicly posted chat logs CAN go wrong.
But it's all that's left of natural selection in humankind, no? These little stumbling traps are what makes us smarter, things NEED to go wrong from time to time.

[cron]

No, they are posted: e.g. http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/game_log.php?game_id=1539

I added some disclaimers yesterday. All fixed

Thanks Khalsa, this is a good start.

But it's all that's left of natural selection in humankind, no?

but but but Natural Selection sucks!