Stuff to make a HD tremulous

[Pazuzu]

This has become quite a funny thread. Seven pages of speculation, "what if", daydreaming, totally unrealistic goals and needless pondering.

Hasn't anyone learned from the previous hundred threads? Doesn't anyone view this as really pointless since even thinking of it requires a) 1.2 to be released, and even then it is a highly unrealistic thing to really happen since there isn't any hint whatsoever of b) an actual team seriously committed to doing it.

Seriously, nothing else than poor screenshots with ATCS textures is going to happen out of this thread. At least you could stop rushing in prematurely, and wait for 1.2 to be released. Then there's an actual possibility to think what actually needs to be and could be changed for the next version and what tools there are to attain the goals. Thinking how stuff like vehicles would be so cool isn't really getting anywhere.

Quoted for truth. 1.2 is what the developers are working on now, and without their help, none of these changes will stand a chance. Everyone suggesting huge changes (porting for 1.2? really?), but apologetically ending your posts with an "Oh sorry, I can't do it, I don't have time", here's something you can do:
Find/make sounds so 1.2 can finally get out the door.
And while you flame me over this, I'll be in abSynth, making noises.

[Fox One]

If you all really want to work on porting Tremulous to XReal, you should probably talk with some of these folks first:

Amanieu and Ender of the Tremfusion dev team. Amanieu knows quite a lot about the technical side of Tremulous, but is often unavailable. Ender was working specifically on getting MD5 models working.

Thorn of the Unvanquished mod project. He was working on adjusting Tremor to use XReal's features (the images are missing, but they looked nice; maybe if you talk to him he can show you).

Amanieu and Thorn can be found on freenode in the #unvanquished channel, and if they're not available someone there can probably point you in the right direction.

Learn everything you can and avoid reinventing the wheel if possible.

[CreatureofHell]

Amanieu and Thorn can be found on freenode in the #unvanquished channel, and if they're not available someone there can probably point you in the right direction.

Thorn can't. Better find him in #tremulous or #xreal.

[CATAHA]

afaik Amanieu now in UrT dev team and not working on Tremulous anymore.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

I think only the armoured, shell part of the head and mouth with those fangs look good with that effect of yours.

The rest of the goon looks pretty terrible, especially feet.

Armour: looks like he's infected with osteoporosis.
Legs: Looks like they penetrate something of some kind. Front legs are meant to pounce.
Over all it looks good. Looks like it could replace the 1.2 models XD

[UB|FuN Damcgee]

i could maybe help?

[Pazuzu]

i could maybe help?

With your mad l33t SketchUp skillz?

[jm82792]

It's far from easy to accomplish even with good models.

[KillerWhale]

Just a few things I'd like to point out in this thread:

Tremulous is already ported to Xreal and works.
In my experience, the ONLY thing that did not work was the HUD.

The other thing I'd like to point out is that Sauerbraten's engine is terrible and you should stop suggesting it.
Have you ever tried to play a custom map in Sauerbraten? If you don't have the map, you can essentially choose to play on whatever map you want to and still shoot people from vantage points they don't have. You can kill people from a map they're not playing.
If that's not a bad engine, I don't know what is.

[Pazuzu]

Just a few things I'd like to point out in this thread:

Tremulous is already ported to Xreal and works.
In my experience, the ONLY thing that did not work was the HUD.

The other thing I'd like to point out is that Sauerbraten's engine is terrible and you should stop suggesting it.
Have you ever tried to play a custom map in Sauerbraten? If you don't have the map, you can essentially choose to play on whatever map you want to and still shoot people from vantage points they don't have. You can kill people from a map they're not playing.
If that's not a bad engine, I don't know what is.

Even though I don't support a Sauerbraten port, this issue needs to be cleared up. That's a bug in the networking code, which would probably be fixed at some point anyway to make it work with Tremulous. I'm not sure if that's even part of the engine, so much as the FPS demo included with it.
I haven't heard anything about Tremulous working on XReal. If it does, that's awesome, but I want a demo.

[CATAHA]

Dunno about demo, but i saw some screenshots of this try before. Even on this forum. Tremor (those was ugly enough) and ATCS (very hot!). Sad, but seems those links are dead right now. =\
In any case devs dont wanna use that port, tremfusion features or something else. =(

[jm82792]

What we have.
An old engine, old information tailored to old computers.

You will get some improvement with a new one but not much with old information/entities.
If we have a new engine it will(probably) create a void and drive demand to create new entities for the new engine.

[Demolution]

And you can't expect new entities and whatever else in a timely manner from the current dev team. Most are busy with actual work (or so I hear ), and developing for trem is a side thing.

[jm82792]

If there was a NEW engine that supported MD5's or something that good then I'd be making some of them.
There is no reason at all to make new flashy stuff then butcher them down to the craptastic MD3's.

[CATAHA]

demand to create new entities for the new engine.

Depends. for example xreal (afaik) support md3 and all quake stuff. So current stuff can be used with possibility of improvement. But anyway talks about it right now just waste of time. For me personally all clear, im not waiting for engine improvements anymore. All im waitng right now is final 1.2 release, so me and our clan devs can make 1.1-like mod with some improvements.

[Tremulant]

All im waitng right now is final 1.2 release, so me and our clan devs can make 1.1-like mod with some improvements.

If you've got a clan with developers sitting around twiddling their thumbs why not get them working on an xreal port, or maybe even some of the bits and pieces that need to be sorted for 1.2(any good at sourcing audio?), since you're waiting for its release before you fiddle?

[jm82792]

Yeah that's how I see it.
Same stuff new engine then slowly upgrade it.

[gimhael]

If there was a NEW engine that supported MD5's or something that good then I'd be making some of them.
There is no reason at all to make new flashy stuff then butcher them down to the craptastic MD3's.

Would IQM be good enough for your purposes ?

[CATAHA]

If you've got a clan with developers sitting around twiddling their thumbs why not get them working on an xreal port, or maybe even some of the bits and pieces that need to be sorted for 1.2(any good at sourcing audio?), since you're waiting for its release before you fiddle?

First at all.. devs obviously proved that they dont need some additional source code from community. And about XReal port. It demands client changing. Real and serious client changing. So its like creating new branch of a game, but while tremfusion users still can use official servers, xreal users cant (due to big difference between maps). Why should we waste time on things renounced by developers, and will not be used by community? All we can is make mod which changing server-side code and assets.
PS Also we too love Tremulous to just steal current assets/code and make 'XReal version' of the game. Trem community weak enough already to split it more. =\

[Tremulant]

PS Also we too love Tremulous to just steal current assets/code and make 'XReal version' of the game. Trem community weak enough already to split it more. =\

You're not going to split the trem community with a hastily bodged together port to xreal, it'll be a curiosity at best, but if you can't be arsed you can't be arsed, no problem.

[CATAHA]

Will you still use the 'official' version of the game, if there will be the same game, but on the XReal engine? The full transfer of data, similar gameplay, but with an improved engine and features. Personally, I would pass on an updated version of the game like many of my friends. That's what I mean when I talk about the split of community.

[Meisseli]

Will you still use the 'official' version of the game, if there will be the same game, but on the XReal engine? The full transfer of data, similar gameplay, but with an improved engine and features. Personally, I would pass on an updated version of the game like many of my friends. That's what I mean when I talk about the split of community.

Of course people would play a Tremulous with a better engine. You seem to assume though that the change will happen overnight. The playerbase won't really split since it'll take years to develop.

[Tremulant]

Only when it actually gets to the point where it's actually an improvement over the main distribution, which is going to require some considerable effort beyond just porting, if you get to that stage then you deserve to draw that attention and your work is valuable, the devs should want to work with your artists to improve the official trem release.
If all you end up with is an incompatible port of trem to xreal with some really ugly and overused bumpmapping and only partial support for existing maps then you'll have trouble splitting anyone but the most easily impressed of idiots away from trem proper.

Stop making excuses.

[CATAHA]

Of course people would play a Tremulous with a better engine. You seem to assume though that the change will happen overnight. The playerbase won't really split since it'll take years to develop.

Not years if it just question of rendering engine upgrade. Especially considering that XReal is compatible with q3 and only few assets should be redone. =)

Only when it actually gets to the point where it's actually an improvement over the main distribution, which is going to require some considerable effort beyond just porting, if you get to that stage then you deserve to draw that attention and your work is valuable, the devs should want to work with your artists to improve the official trem release.

The existence of the Tremfusion project refutes this. We have tested and fully working improved code, but no one care implement those features to main Tremulous branch. Why you think something gonna change after releasing of full XReal port?

[Meisseli]

Of course people would play a Tremulous with a better engine. You seem to assume though that the change will happen overnight. The playerbase won't really split since it'll take years to develop.

Not years if it just question of rendering engine upgrade. Especially considering that XReal is compatible with q3 and only few assets should be redone. =)

If it's just a rendering engine upgrade you want, why even bother to upgrade? If you get nothing new and cool out of it?

Only when it actually gets to the point where it's actually an improvement over the main distribution, which is going to require some considerable effort beyond just porting, if you get to that stage then you deserve to draw that attention and your work is valuable, the devs should want to work with your artists to improve the official trem release.

The existence of the Tremfusion project refutes this. We have tested and fully working improved code, but no one care implement those features to main Tremulous branch. Why you think something gonna change after releasing of full XReal port?

Hah, stop talking trash. Tremfusion had a huge amount of unnecessary and messy features, but it also introduced some nice things. You really don't seem to have noticed that a lot of those good features are already included in the next release. The project has also been dead for almost 1,5 years.

[Tremulant]

So tremfusion and a complete and graphically superior port to xreal are similar wrt level of effort required? Tremfusion died without ever going anywhere, didn't it? Wasn't the plan for it to be more than just an enhanced 1.1 client?

Talking up your developers abilities while using the long wait for 1.2 as an excuse for them to never make use of said abilities, nice, carry on.

Imagine, if you were working on a port you could get some practice in mapping with all those new features you so desperately want,

I bet you can't make trem look as pro as UrTHD though

[CATAHA]

Tremfusion died without ever going anywhere, didn't it? Wasn't the plan for it to be more than just an enhanced 1.1 client?

Talking up your developers abilities while using the long wait for 1.2 as an excuse for them to never make use of said abilities, nice, carry on.
Imagine, if you were working on a port you could get some practice in mapping with all those new features you so desperately want,
I bet you can't make trem look as pro as UrTHD though
/...screenshot excluded.../

I cant make trem look like urthd for sure, obviously urt engine better, so when i'm working under trem engine i'm limited.
AFAIK Tremulous 1.2 code differs from the 1.1, so right now working on 1.1 is waste of time. If you dont get it i dont see point explain more. We released InstaGib mod under 1.1 Trem already with bonuses, different footsteps, new possibilities, etc. So saying we not doing anything is lolly. However, after the announcement that Trem 1.2 coming soon, we have suspended work to avoid wasting time for nothing.
And if you asking about my personal work, then you can check my last dev screenshots for example: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=3628.msg215336#msg215336
I personally think as map my better than on your screenshot (uptown i think), more detailed, etc:

But i can compile my map under new urt engine and it will be much more impressive.

If it's just a rendering engine upgrade you want, why even bother to upgrade? If you get nothing new and cool out of it?

Its only answer to ideas 'we dont need to switch engine caus after it we strongly need redone all assets'. even with basic tremfusion improvements standart trem maps look like a lot better. And you always can release some sort of 'new assets' pack with improved models, sounds, maps, etc.

Hah, stop talking trash. Tremfusion had a huge amount of unnecessary and messy features, but it also introduced some nice things. You really don't seem to have noticed that a lot of those good features are already included in the next release. The project has also been dead for almost 1,5 years.

Never heard about some real features from tremfusion was implemented to 1.2
Can you give me examples? No offence, im rly curious. I agree that tremfusion not ideal, but some features really good.

PS Crap, sorry guys... My English is too weak to accurately describe my ideas. =(

[Pazuzu]

To be honest, I've given up on an "HD" Tremulous (we've apparently decided "HD" means "better models, more detailed textures, and an engine less than a decade old", so I'll go with that). There's too much infighting, too many conflicting goals, and not enough manpower to make Tremulous any more impressive to potential new players than it is. But finally getting 1.2 out, after more than 4 years, seems like an admirable goal for now.

[Tremulant]

If you dont get it i dont see point explain more.

If it'll mean less crap being spouted, i welcome this decision.

We released InstaGib mod under 1.1 Trem already with bonuses, different footsteps, new possibilities, etc. So saying we not doing anything is lolly.

ZOMG KILLAR FITURE!!!1! I haven't seen you produce anything vaguely interesting in the way of mods, i'm not for a moment disputing you mapping abilities.

I personally think as map my better than on your screenshot (uptown i think), more detailed, etc:

The screenshot i posted was shit, every aspect of it, not just the map. But it's called HD, so it's awesome, right?

PS Crap, sorry guys... My English is too weak to accurately describe my ideas. =(

I'm not sure that explains everything, sadly.

[CATAHA]

I never said that just HD engine is awesome without any assets, etc. I only said that with improved engine Trem community gonna have possibilities bring game to new level of quality.
About mods... You never played our Instagib mod, right? =) And what about footsteps, heh? When you get different footstep sound when walking on grass it making game more atmospheric. Its just small detail. But such details making games good. Without attention to details games just plain.

PS Again about ur screenie. model looks better than in Trem, even with fact its from urt alpha and gonna be replaced. =]