kick by Warrior. reason: cleanup of improper players

[Norfenstein]

if nobody else seems to notice it, they probably aren't aimbotting.

In all my years of playing Tremulous, combined with all the years before that of playing Gloom, I can think of maybe one person I've played with that obviously used an aimbot. Probably. Anyone else that aimbotted with me still wasn't any better than the best players I knew of that definitely didn't.

When setlevel is given to all admins things like this are bound to happen (kudos to lava for fixing two problems, him having admin, and all admins having setlevel.)

Maybe it's just because it's less populated (though it wasn't always), but level 3 and 4 admins on the EU server still have setlevel there because it was never abused there. Just sayin'.

[ziplocpeople]

Maybe it's just because it's less populated (though it wasn't always), but level 3 and 4 admins on the EU server still have setlevel there because it was never abused there. Just sayin'.

I understand your point, but like you said there's a smaller population- so as it stands now there's less of a need for admins, and thus less room for error. And, yeah another factor is definitely more cautious use of setlevel, I'm just forced to wonder if Trem EU were to pick up players again would history repeat itself, would quality be traded for quantity?
Eh, who knows. I base what I say off of what I see, so when it comes to trem EU I can only ask questions, but on Trem US it seems that many can't handle the responsibility of setlevel, perhaps Trem EU just started out with better admins, and thus they haven't run in to problems as of yet. Oh well, whatever. I suppose time will tell.

[Tremulant]

On one last note... What percentage of DDOS has admin? I believe quite a bit

Yep, dozens and dozens of us.

[Meisseli]

On one last note... What percentage of DDOS has admin? I believe quite a bit, my point isn't that any of you are bad admins, or even misused setlevel. Rather, friends tend promote friends: One bad promotion can lead to a mass of them, on the other hand if someone good and trustworthy gets admin it helps the server as a whole.

EU indeed has setlevel, not because of lack of players (Phase 5: EU 3991 games, US 4119 games; Phase 6: EU 890 games, US 6432 games, what the hell happened anyways?), but because people have been quite careful with whom to place that responsibility. I for one got admin from console and I do not recall a single time I've used /setlevel, unlike the "GT wankery" where at least some GTs seemed to thought for some mysterious reason every one of their clan members (~70?) should be given admin powers.

Anyways back on the topic, I would be really surprised to find out anyone had made an aimbot for GPP. 1.1 had a really few guys aimbotting and even then people were really over-paranoid. GPP as of currently does not have any.

[SlackerLinux]

On one last note... What percentage of DDOS has admin? I believe quite a bit, my point isn't that any of you are bad admins, or even misused setlevel. Rather, friends tend promote friends: One bad promotion can lead to a mass of them, on the other hand if someone good and trustworthy gets admin it helps the server as a whole.

EU indeed has setlevel, not because of lack of players (Phase 5: EU 3991 games, US 4119 games; Phase 6: EU 890 games, US 6432 games, what the hell happened anyways?), but because people have been quite careful with whom to place that responsibility. I for one got admin from console and I do not recall a single time I've used /setlevel, unlike the "GT wankery" where at least some GTs seemed to thought for some mysterious reason every one of their clan members (~70?) should be given admin powers.

not everyone did that i didn't setlevel anyone and i wouldn't unless if i knew they were a capable admin

anyway the whole setlevel thing isn't really what this topic is about

from warriors statement(it says everyone is a bot if you missed it) i think maybe he isn't admin material and sounds like the devs fixed that oh and Meisseli hax :p

[Meisseli]

not everyone did that i didn't setlevel anyone and i wouldn't unless if i knew they were a capable admin

Yeah, didn't say everyone did

[Aelita]

On one last note... What percentage of DDOS has admin? I believe quite a bit, my point isn't that any of you are bad admins, or even misused setlevel. Rather, friends tend promote friends: One bad promotion can lead to a mass of them, on the other hand if someone good and trustworthy gets admin it helps the server as a whole.

EU indeed has setlevel, not because of lack of players (Phase 5: EU 3991 games, US 4119 games; Phase 6: EU 890 games, US 6432 games, what the hell happened anyways?), but because people have been quite careful with whom to place that responsibility. I for one got admin from console and I do not recall a single time I've used /setlevel, unlike the "GT wankery" where at least some GTs seemed to thought for some mysterious reason every one of their clan members (~70?) should be given admin powers.

Anyways back on the topic, I would be really surprised to find out anyone had made an aimbot for GPP. 1.1 had a really few guys aimbotting and even then people were really over-paranoid. GPP as of currently does not have any.

GPP might not have any, but aimbots in 1.1 were far from rare. I'd say out of a group of 10 noobs, at least 2 were aimbotting at any given time. And I'm not just being suspicious here, I mean flat out obvious they were botting (constant snapping, aiming through walls, aiming at the exact same point of an enemy, trying to use a bot as an alien [derp], etc), and occasionally even refusing to deny botting.

You might want to be a bit paranoid for triggerbots though. I don't think you'll ever be entirely sure somebody is using one (unless they're really blatantly obvious, which I've seen only once)

[Pazuzu]

You might want to be a bit paranoid for triggerbots though. I don't think you'll ever be entirely sure somebody is using one (unless they're really blatantly obvious, which I've seen only once)

True, but I've seen triggerbot-detection projects in the works. They plot a graph of where shots land on an enemy player's hitbox. If they're all near the edges, guess what that means?

[David]

That they are a shit shot?

Given latency and rapid-fire weapons, a RNG is probably going to do just as good a job as that script.

[c4]

Especially in unlagged.  I shoot dretches already around corners all day.  I'd guess that thats at the side of the bbox. 

[Dracone]

From a non-technical perspective since I'm not really tech savvy: 1.1 unlagged = you shoot them and it hits once they're around the corner due to the fact that you visually witness your ping's effect on things you do that affect the game world and players, yet unlagged allows the results of your shots to hit what you were aiming at regardless of how long it takes them to connect, although if you die before something has connected I think it is nullified?

Yeah it could be the side of their bbox but you can't actually click once they're already completely around the corner and hit them.

I don't know about 1.2 unlagged, heard it was different but I don't see what the overall concept change would be.

[Uzi]

DSPro setlevel wankery

That never happened

In the same way that GT never happened?

But ARENT you TRemulant.ddos in GT?? LOLZ soo your pretty much part of this wankery arent you !

[Tremulant]

But ARENT you TRemulant.ddos in GT?? LOLZ soo your pretty much part of this wankery arent you !

ahem, pardon?

[ziplocpeople]

But ARENT you TRemulant.ddos in GT?? LOLZ soo your pretty much part of this wankery arent you !

ahem, pardon?

I lol'd pretty hard there...

[Pazuzu]

I lol'd pretty hard there...

Why? DDoS is part of GT, right? And isn't .Pk too?
Don't kill me.

[Aelita]

From a non-technical perspective since I'm not really tech savvy: 1.1 unlagged = you shoot them and it hits once they're around the corner due to the fact that you visually witness your ping's effect on things you do that affect the game world and players, yet unlagged allows the results of your shots to hit what you were aiming at regardless of how long it takes them to connect, although if you die before something has connected I think it is nullified?

Yeah it could be the side of their bbox but you can't actually click once they're already completely around the corner and hit them.

I don't know about 1.2 unlagged, heard it was different but I don't see what the overall concept change would be.

1.1 unlagged didn't have the clientside bits, which is why the corner effect happened. 1.2 has g_unlagged and compensates for lag in drawing, as 1.1 does not.

[SlackerLinux]

From a non-technical perspective since I'm not really tech savvy: 1.1 unlagged = you shoot them and it hits once they're around the corner due to the fact that you visually witness your ping's effect on things you do that affect the game world and players, yet unlagged allows the results of your shots to hit what you were aiming at regardless of how long it takes them to connect, although if you die before something has connected I think it is nullified?

Yeah it could be the side of their bbox but you can't actually click once they're already completely around the corner and hit them.

I don't know about 1.2 unlagged, heard it was different but I don't see what the overall concept change would be.

1.1 unlagged didn't have the clientside bits, which is why the corner effect happened. 1.2 has g_unlagged and compensates for lag in drawing, as 1.1 does not.

the corner effect still happens in 1.2 btw isnt the clientside bit 1 cvar that lets you opt-out of your shots being unlagged

[ziplocpeople]

I lol'd pretty hard there...

Why? DDoS is part of GT, right? And isn't .Pk too?
Don't kill me.

I'm still trying to figure out wtf GT is.

[Aelita]

From a non-technical perspective since I'm not really tech savvy: 1.1 unlagged = you shoot them and it hits once they're around the corner due to the fact that you visually witness your ping's effect on things you do that affect the game world and players, yet unlagged allows the results of your shots to hit what you were aiming at regardless of how long it takes them to connect, although if you die before something has connected I think it is nullified?

Yeah it could be the side of their bbox but you can't actually click once they're already completely around the corner and hit them.

I don't know about 1.2 unlagged, heard it was different but I don't see what the overall concept change would be.

1.1 unlagged didn't have the clientside bits, which is why the corner effect happened. 1.2 has g_unlagged and compensates for lag in drawing, as 1.1 does not.

the corner effect still happens in 1.2 btw isnt the clientside bit 1 cvar that lets you opt-out of your shots being unlagged

Not sure, I think that's what it does. But I rarely ever see the corner issue in 1.2 compared to 1.1. It seems a lot smoother, at least.

[TVR]

For the record, I had granted the following IDs L3:

Prince Andrei
Deathof1
Fallen
Akatsuki
Whales (KillerWhale)
Uniq-Phoenix
Uzi
Fed

Warrior had L3 long before superpie granted it to me, which was in November 2009. Warrior never believed that everyone could hit his dretch so easily even with the latency compensation on US1.

[Demolution]

You're ... alive? 

[KillerWhale]

Whales (KillerWhale)

Nope, I got mine from TMLer.

Maybe you setleveled my second GUID on my other computer.

[ziplocpeople]

For the record, I had granted the following IDs L3:

Prince Andrei
Deathof1
Fallen
Akatsuki
Whales (KillerWhale)
Uniq-Phoenix
Uzi
Fed

Warrior had L3 long before superpie granted it to me, which was in November 2009. Warrior never believed that everyone could hit his dretch so easily even with the latency compensation on US1.

My mistake then, I thought you gave it to more people than that.

[Manbearpig@SRM]

Firstly, letting any random douche admin !setlevel any random douche on the official servers is, frankly, the silliest thing i've heard in a while on here.  Setting a certain quality of gameplay on the "officially sanctioned" servers should be a big priority if anyone still gives 2 shits about tremulous.  I'm a little suprised, although i havent played vanilla tremulous in years, i wouldnt expect this kind of nonsense on the scale demonstrated.  Seriously? anyone can just get admin whenever?    Seriously? some dude posting on here, just now, letting everyone know who he promoted? Why isnt there any oversight?

Secondly, Norf saying he has only played with "one aimbot" his entire 10+ years on tremulous/gloom is flabbergasting. The most popular exploit's project page shows nearly 1,100 downloads since it was posted in 2009 alone (i wont name it although all of you probably know what im referring to).  Also, since my admins are required to post a demo with any kind of ban they post (something lacking here), we have accumulated pages upon pages of demos of various exploits over the years.

[Ingar]

Firstly, letting any random douche admin !setlevel any random douche on the official servers is, frankly, the silliest thing i've heard in a while on here. 

Setlevel has been taken from random douches on the official servers.

Secondly, Norf saying he has only played with "one aimbot" his entire 10+ years on tremulous/gloom is flabbergasting. The most popular exploit's project page shows nearly 1,100 downloads since it was posted in 2009 alone (i wont name it although all of you probably know what im referring to).  Also, since my admins are required to post a demo with any kind of ban they post (something lacking here), we have accumulated pages upon pages of demos of various exploits over the years.

To put this into perspective: according to sourceforge Tremulous 1.1 is still downloaded around 800 times PER DAY.

[Manbearpig@SRM]

Setlevel has been taken from random douches on the official servers.

Sweet.

To put this into perspective: according to sourceforge Tremulous 1.1 is still downloaded around 800 times PER DAY.

Well, thats clearly not accurate haha.  But i think you are correct in the sense that while there are people who do exploit, there are many more who dont.  The point i wanted to make was that we see and ban at least one of them per week, so there definitely is a threat.

[Demolution]

800 eh?

[Qrntz]

800 eh?

Tremulous Hackers detected. D:

[F50]

Firstly, letting any random douche admin !setlevel any random douche on the official servers is, frankly, the silliest thing i've heard in a while on here.  Setting a certain quality of gameplay on the "officially sanctioned" servers should be a big priority if anyone still gives 2 shits about tremulous.  I'm a little surprised, although i haven't played vanilla tremulous in years, i wouldnt expect this kind of nonsense on the scale demonstrated.  Seriously? anyone can just get admin whenever?    Seriously? some dude posting on here, just now, letting everyone know who he promoted? Why isn't there any oversight?

Admins shouldn't be douches, or they shouldn't be admins, no? You're overreacting. Giving every admin setlevel, with a certain degree of hierarchy actually works fairly well. I'm fairly certain that the only level 4 admin who abused setlevel was lava, and the only level 3 admin that really managed to abuse setlevel that I'm aware of was shizniks. The main failing of that system is an inabillity to see exactly who an admin has setleveled and was setleveled by. With those notable exceptions, the admins seemed to be able to oversee each other. This is hardly "anyone can just get admin whenever".

As has been noted a few times in this thread, the admins on the EU server still operate on the "every admin has setlevel" principle, and so far it appears to be working just fine. The folks in the EU are just more sane I guess xD.

[David]

IMO people should only be able to setlevel people to the level below them, as opposed to their own level.

And who-set-who is logged, just not publicly visible.