Kick by {NoS}Terrible. for Lava Granger

[Menace13]

Okay, I presume at least some of you know about the lava granger "glitch" on ancient remains, and any other map with lava that doesn't have provisions to block this "glitch".

For those of you who don't: quick summary: living in lava as granger/basi/advbasi/rant, not taking damage from it once you get to the bottom

Anyways, I got to the bottom of the big lava pit on ancient remains, and after a few minutes of arguing between me, Terrible, and Sir|Nightstrike (thanks for trying to help, Nightstrike ), and me having managed to go rant down there, Terrible putteam'd me to specs, then back to aliens. Not only was this uncalled for, but I see nothing in the server rules that I was breaking, therefore qualifying this as abuse to me.

After that, I went granger and hopped back in. He kicked me. Just a usual 5 minute kick. You know the deal.

I got back in 5 minutes later, after typing up the first half of this, and hopped in. He kicked me again (not 5 minutes, I was able to reconnect immediately? o0) for reason "Last warning".

As soon as I got back ingame, I hopped in a few more times. However, a rifle kept killing me, and I doubt Terrible noticed. If he did, he didn't do anything about it.

Anyways, I just wanted to know if this was a kickable offense or not. While I realize I was repeating my "offense", I do not believe what I was doing was wrong. Not only does the glitch not harm the game in any way, it is just for fun. I have had amazing games before when we had 4 rants down in the lava at one point in time.

So...if this is a kickable offense, I will try not to do it any more. If not, I would just like to know that in the future I will be free to go in the lava whenever a vote for ancient remains passes. Without admins kicking me.

Oh, and Terrible? You owe me 5 evos.

-Menace13

[Pazuzu]

This belongs in another forum, this one is for official servers. Just a heads-up.

[Menace13]

This was on the Official US Server...

[ziplocpeople]

Relevant IRC conversation, in fact it's about this exact incident. --Note, the clock on this computer's out of whack, so ignore the times.

Code: [Select]

(06:01:14 PM) The_Medistation: Lakitu7: On ancient remains, the glitch where aliens can jump in the lava and survive- If someone was intentionally, repeatedly abusing it would you consider it bannable?
(06:02:46 PM) Norfenstein left the room (quit: Quit: Norfenstein).
(06:03:19 PM) The_Medistation: I also asked the individual to stop multiple times. The only reason why I ask this is because several other people sided with him on the matter, so I wanted a second opinion.
(06:03:54 PM) Lakitu7: I don't know the glitch. Is it possible to just stay there and nobody can shoot you?
(06:04:04 PM) stitch left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(06:05:33 PM) The_Medistation: Well, they can shoot all they want but you can't see through the lava, making it virtually impossible to kill him. It also proved to be a massive distraction for the human team.
(06:05:34 PM) philh: The_Medistation, what's the glitch and how's it abusable?
(06:06:30 PM) philh: hmm, tricky one
(06:06:31 PM) The_Medistation: Basically somehow aliens can jump in the lava pit in ancient remains, survive, and dick around the entire game.
(06:06:53 PM) The_Medistation: According to the person who did it, you can do it on any map with lava.
(06:07:20 PM) The_Medistation: His only real defense was "if the devs wanted it fixed they would have by now."
(06:07:26 PM) Lakitu7: my stance has always been "play the game or gtfo" but that seems to piss a lot of people off
(06:07:38 PM) freezway: +1 TO THAT
(06:07:40 PM) Lakitu7: I certainly wouldn't fault you for banning for it after warnings
(06:07:48 PM) freezway: sry, stupid capslock
(06:07:59 PM) freezway: bb soon
(06:08:34 PM) Menace13 [~luke@pool-74-96-17-116.washdc.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
(06:08:58 PM) Menace13 left the room.
(06:09:30 PM) The_Medistation: I see, I only kicked him once- then a 1 second ban later because he did it again. He continually taunted me saying stuff like "LOL I'M IN AGAIN." I suppose I'm a bit of a softie when it comes to banning though- He didn't glitch build or anything, but it was certainly abusing a glitch.
(06:09:34 PM) Menace13 [~luke@pool-74-96-17-116.washdc.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
(06:09:44 PM) philh: well, if you get to the point that the last remaining dretch is simply hiding in there then a kick seem like a perfectly good course of action, if they're buggering about in there for the whole game them they're only hurting their team
(06:09:54 PM) Menace13: is lavagranger a kickable offense?
(06:09:56 PM) Menace13: opinions plox
(06:10:02 PM) philh: very much so
(06:10:08 PM) Menace13: and why?
(06:10:19 PM) philh: why not?
(06:10:22 PM) Rezyn: it is. deal with it.
(06:10:38 PM) The_Medistation: Thanks for the input.As for why it's kick/ban-able, I'll explain my thoughts on the matter:
1) It's a glitch, a very abusable one.
2) You weren't even playing, you were wasting a slot on your team.
3) You continued to do it despite warnings.
4) Overall it hurts your team, they have to get more frags to stage up, meanwhile you're taking a bath in a toasty lava pool.

That's just my take on things, I hope there aren't any hard feelings- After all we're just here to have fun.
(Also, worth noting- I unbanned the first kick about two minutes in... I was hoping you'd behave after that =x)

[Pazuzu]

Think of it this way: While your team is fighting to level up/win/defend their base/avoid losing, you're dicking around in the sauna.

[Qrntz]

Think of it this way: While your team is fighting to level up/win/defend their base/avoid losing, you're dicking around in the sauna.

If you meant to improve the teamwork with that phrase, I'm afraid you did quite the opposite.

[SirDude]

I'm going to defend menace here, this is not a glitch as it does not abuse the game engine, or a bug, its a MAPPING OVERSIGHT, its not like the old ATCs 1.1 "hidden room" glitch either, so this is more like a player opinion issue.

[DeadMeat]

Lava is there for a reason, you should die there. Hiding there is a bug in the map, exploiting it is not a nice thing, you give unfair advantage to your team. Also i would remove the map from the server until this thing get fixed.

[Tremulant]

I'd remove the map from the server because it's simply tedious, though the lava bug's a good reason too.

Hmm, poor menace, yes he's wasting his team's time and failing to contribute, but to be defended by SirDude, i don't know how one can recover from that D:

[SirDude]

fuck you, i was defending him on how the admin reacted, don't make me AGREE with you on everything because if my opinion, makes it a bad one then i will happily fuck you up.

[Menace13]

I'm going to defend menace here, this is not a glitch as it does not abuse the game engine, or a bug, its a MAPPING OVERSIGHT, its not like the old ATCs 1.1 "hidden room" glitch either, so this is more like a player opinion issue.

Actually, it's not a mapping oversight. While the map could be edited to have a "wrong place" zone at the bottom of the lava to prevent people from lavagrangering, the main problem is the qvm doesn't have a provision to stop people from doing this. Any map with lava that doesn't have a special killzone at the bottom (e.g. Thermal) or that isn't tall enough for people not to be able to GET to the bottom (e.g. Volcano [but I think it has a killzone as well]) is a map that you can lavagranger on.

Lava is there for a reason, you should die there. Hiding there is a bug in the map, exploiting it is not a nice thing, you give unfair advantage to your team. Also i would remove the map from the server until this thing get fixed.

Firstly, it doesn't give an unfair advantage to my team, as I can't DO anything in the lava...except basigas if I happen to be an adv. basi...dunno if that works though...

Secondly, you do realize the map has been out around 4 years now? It's not going to get fixed. Although it REALLY wouldn't be that hard to either add a killzone in the map or just change the qvm to insta-kill if you land in lava...either of those would work.

I'd remove the map from the server because it's simply tedious, though the lava bug's a good reason too.

Hmm, poor menace, yes he's wasting his team's time and failing to contribute, but to be defended by SirDude, i don't know how one can recover from that D:

I wasn't the first person to hop in the lava, just FYI. I was just the only one who wouldn't STOP.

[DeadMeat]

Firstly, it doesn't give an unfair advantage to my team, as I can't DO anything in the lava..

well think of it if you can hide there as the last alien in the last 2 minutes and the humans wont able to find you obviously because nobody thinks to look after you in the lava...

Such bugged maps should be fixed or removed from the official servers.

[ziplocpeople]

I'd remove the map from the server because it's simply tedious, though the lava bug's a good reason too.

Hmm, poor menace, yes he's wasting his team's time and failing to contribute, but to be defended by SirDude, i don't know how one can recover from that D:

I wasn't the first person to hop in the lava, just FYI. I was just the only one who wouldn't STOP.

I think we've found the problem here.

[Pazuzu]

fuck you, i was defending him on how the admin reacted, don't make me AGREE with you on everything because if my opinion, makes it a bad one then i will happily fuck you up.

It does. What now, Internet Tough Guy?

[Norfenstein]

(06:03:19 PM) The_Medistation: I also asked the individual to stop multiple times.

Anyways, I just wanted to know if this was a kickable offense or not.

You don't think being asked by an admin to stop multiple times was enough to indicate that you shouldn't be doing it? Use your brain please.