Yes, but, why?

[swamp-cecil]

As many of you notice, the bunker is the yellow base inbetween the two atcs bases. People say "dont move in there, noob" and ETC. I know people saying it as a fact, but, why is it so bad?
I could see why its bad for aliens. Well, not really. It seems a better human base. So..... Why is the bunker such a bad base place?

[Anonymoose]

It is not a bad place. It has its risks as does any situation where you are moving base to a location closer to the enemy but with good teamwork anything can be pulled off. Bases don't win/lose games, players do.

[Tremulant]

It's a bit cramped and zaps beautifully.

[janev]

There are a few reasons.

-One exit --> Alien team automatically focusses their efforts without the need for teamwork
-Very risky move
-Cramped --> loss of manoeuvrability.
-Open ceiling --> Tyrannosaurus-rain

+(-)jettards
+distance to possible alien bases

It's a flat out horrible base for aliens. Think short distance to run and lucifer spam + grenades.

[zybork]

Why is the bunker such a bad base place?

Aliens bases in the bunker are luci-fodder, the one single entrance makes it camping ground, the most important reason why this sucks as a human base is because you can hardly have any structure in here that cannot be sniped, except if you cramp the base like hell, in which case it is zap-fodder, also, people cannot defend it properly, they will step on each others toes, the space is just not big enough for reasonable maneauvering.

Experience shows that this is a bad base in any case, be it 1.1, 1.2, alien or human team.

[Meisseli]

The bunker isn't that horrible of a base. The reason people hate it is because 99% of the time the game becomes utterly campy and boring.

Humans mostly win the games there because aliens focus all their efforts on building on top of bunker, forgetting their default completely.

Remember that the distance between the bases of the two teams is very important. Humans benefit a ton from their base being close to the aliens', while the opposite is true for aliens. An alien base there doesn't work most of the time mainly due to the short distance. It depends a lot on the builder of course, but the default is nevertheless substantially better. However if humans move to tunnel, aliens can counter very nicely by keeping the longest possible distance between bases: that is by moving to bunker ASAP.

[janev]

Humans mostly win the games there because aliens focus all their efforts on building on top of bunker, forgetting their default completely.

I call bullshit. Most moves to the bunker end in disaster before the base is ever completed. The reason humans mostly win a bunker vs whatever game is because their skill was sufficiently to get there in the first place.

[Meisseli]

Humans mostly win the games there because aliens focus all their efforts on building on top of bunker, forgetting their default completely.

I call bullshit. Most moves to the bunker end in disaster before the base is ever completed. The reason humans mostly win a bunker vs whatever game is because their skill was sufficiently to get there in the first place.

I call bullshit on your bullshit. Most games aliens just camp outside and are unable to / unwilling to attack. Humans feed a ton, anywhere from AS2 to AS3 but eventually they get stage two and kill the stuff on top of bunker with jetpacks. Then they proceed to destroy the unbuilt alien default. A very low amount of skill is needed or involved at all.

[janev]

Humans mostly win the games there because aliens focus all their efforts on building on top of bunker, forgetting their default completely.

I call bullshit. Most moves to the bunker end in disaster before the base is ever completed. The reason humans mostly win a bunker vs whatever game is because their skill was sufficiently to get there in the first place.

I call bullshit on your bullshit. Most games aliens just camp outside and are unable to / unwilling to attack. Humans feed a ton, anywhere from AS2 to AS3 but eventually they get stage two and kill the stuff on top of bunker with jetpacks. Then they proceed to destroy the unbuilt alien default. A very low amount of skill is needed or involved at all.

I call bullshit on your calling bullshit on my bullshit. Skill is required for humans to get the base built there. The vast majority of attempted moves to the bunker are just that, attempts. Now Ḯve got to run to make it to alko before it closes. 

-Jormanaattori out

[Dracone]

Single entrance bases practically destroy your offensive capabilities if the other team is sending their own offense consistently, end of story. The only smart way to utilize such a base is to have the majority of potential defenders outside of it, but that pretty much creates impending doom for humans, and is now is impossible in GPP for aliens without using the booster's ability to project aura through surfaces or lisks, and everyone should have noticed by now that the only lisks who seem capable of getting out of the way of enemy fire are skilled enough overall that for them to use a lisk takes away one of the team's better defenders.

Put simply, don't fucking build single entrance bases. That goes for window on Niveus too. People seem to think it's a good base only because the human teams on US1 tend to be incapable of killing it because most of the people involved in the rushes on it suck. Looks like 6 people rushing but only 1 or 2 will hit the base, which isn't good enough with 10 aliens inside. But anything more than that rapes that base.

[Thoth]

When I played 1.1, the bunker was a very popular forward base. It was very rare for the team to ever actually move in though; unless the opposing team was very weak and they wanted to close them in. Otherwise, moving into it is just asking for or  to rape the base.

[SirDude]

Single entrance bases practically destroy your offensive capabilities if the other team is sending their own offense consistently, end of story.

This.

BUT having only one base entrance is easy for humans to defend if built right and on the right map, but not on atcs as it always fails there.

[jm82792]

Single entrance bases practically destroy your offensive capabilities if the other team is sending their own offense consistently, end of story.

This.

[F50]

Well, KoR | Layouts used to be one of my favorite servers (besides AA). Sometimes the human base would start in the bunker on these layouts. Then you got to see the true use of the bunker location. The aliens often staged-up faster, as outside isn't as human-friendly as the halls. The alien base was sometimes not built up, but usually that depended on how well the humans did.

If the humans got S2, and managed to secure jetcamp, the bunker base was pretty good, but if the aliens managed to keep the humans from getting an air force, or attacked later when the air force is disbanded for chainsuits, the base proved to be *VERY* snipe-able, and only one or two humans can attack goons at the entrance at once. I can't imagine it would be good with mara-zap either. However, the humans do have the advantage if they can control outside due to the alien base being so close.

The main thing is that if you can prevent jetpacks from getting outside in S2, which can happen even if the humans reach S2, via dretch poison, tyrant camp, a few acid tubes (not too many though, as meisseli pointed out), then the humans are toast.

Its mainly a bad move due to it being very snipable, and dies a lot before it is fully created. However if you can hold the area just outside the front of the bunker, you do gain the advantage.

[Dracone]

Let me raise a point here related to what I was talking about before, with your base's protection being mainly external...

You have two ways of defending: Players and structural defenses. Structures alone is temporary as a given for how long it lasts. Players, however, continually spawn. However, there are still major differences in the way this works. If the "line of defense" necessary to reasonably defend (and allow for offense) for a particular base is a one-time breakable thing until it is put back into action (ex. jetcampers who die or aliens outside of their base who get killed or pushed back into their base), then the submission of the other team that allows for assaults on their base becomes more easily reached. A good corner default base at ATCS doesn't have this problem to a high degree because the people spawn ready to defend and counter attack. A bunker base has close quarters defense in which if you move out of bunker you're probably not going to get far because the aliens are too mobilized and have the area secured and are able to ambush you.

In short, if your best line of player defense isn't easily made semi-permanent and does not allow for reasonable offense, it's inferior in terms of getting a victory, and said "best" line of player defense is based on the location of your base.