Pounce and Chomp, the fun factor

[F50]

I think the pounce should in fact be useful more often than the chomp -- since it's really what makes the goon fun and interesting.

I disagree, and would like to have a discussion on why this is, and in general to see what others here think. I do not really want to get into discussion about balance at the moment in this thread, since that's been discussed before in other threads and other places, but about which is in fact more fun.


Pounce is one of the things that makes the goon fun and interesting. Its movement is unique and indeed is part of what defines the dragoon. However this is not the only thing that defines the dragoon. The dragoon also has a unique attack called "chomp". I would like to argue that this attack is different from all of the other primary attacks the aliens have at their disposal, and is an integral part of the dragoon's identity. The marauder's attack has a far faster repeat, and combined with its own movement pattern feels completely different from that of the dragoon. The tyrant's attack, although very similar in function, still feels very different to me given the tyrant's general demeanor (and now its different view height). The chomping dragoon is not a tank like the tyrant, but neither should it be forced to run upon being faced with a chainsuit. The see the chomping dragoon as a mario.

Secondly, I prefer combat with chomp to combat with pounce. Combat with pounce just doesn't feel varied to me when I'm a goon. If I don't have plenty of stamina, it can pretty much be known how any given one on one fight will go before it really begins, since pounce cannot be effectively dodged without it. Again, this is very subjective, but it feels much more satisfying to chomp through a bsuit than to pounce one to death, although admittedly it feels even better to push someone of a ledge to his doom  .

And I guess I should say one more thing, that has been said before (probably won't happen, but nonetheless): if pounce is the primary attack, that should be reflected in the controls.

So, thoughts? Am I just crazy, or is there something to this?



Disclaimer: The poll isn't really meant for statistical analysis, and should only be used as a rough guideline, if that.

[SirDude]

while i agree that pounce is should be more "useful" then chomp and it DOES make the goon what it is, and pouncing long distances is VERY fun (but rare).

I feel that pounce is should be more "useful" for movement and opening attacks, then
a "jack-of-all-trades-also-master-of-all" thing. i feel chop should be more "useful" at attacking them pounce generally is.

having the pounce as the primary way of movement and attack removes almost all sense of depth the goon has.


right now the goon is like a thug who only fights and moves with his buffass left leg.

[Nux]

I haven't made my vote because I don't know which version you mean and also I would ideally not have more fun with either but enjoy them in combination.

Like SirDude, I'd prefer pounce as a way to get around. I don't like how long it takes to cool down now (but that I can adjust to) and I don't like how effective it is with so little effort required.

[Qrntz]

Disregard my vote, I'm sleepy so I voted the wrong one.
I should've indicated chomp as more fun and not pounce, because it is for me. I don't know why, but I feel kind of sad about the fact pounce is more suitable in most of the cases.
I don't know what to say about my liking though. It just seems more fun for me. I love the satisfying sound of a human being chomped.

[Dracone]

This has been the one situation that actually stands out for me, although I'm repeating myself as everyone who has discussed GPP knows that I find the new goon to be incredibly boring and completely lacking in a need for skill. I'm going to hold on discussing this for now though, as the armor location fix thing is going to greatly alter the ability of goons to chomp battlesuits to death (if you get all headshots it kills them faster than with pounce, it always has but the headshot zone was retarded before this new phase). It's not going to change anything for chomping S2 equipped humans though, as anyone who knew how to chomp in previous phases had no issues hitting the head of non-bsuit equipped humans, despite there being problems with the armor areas or whatever.

But as I said, I'm going to look into how it feels anyways, given the small change. In regard to one part of the game, things should be taken step by step. The poll is still useful for getting input on this.

[GeneralScott]

It depends. When there's a ton of anarmored it's pretty satisfying to whip around them as they spray useless bullets all over the wall. When there's a suit, however, pouncing is more of an evasion to get closer to the suit so I can headchomp it.

[Undeference]

see the chomping dragoon as a mario.

Then what is the non-chomping dragoon?

Mario is human. Mario would be pretty worthless if you had to get 3 frags with specialized classes to afford him. At that point, you'd do better sticking with the specialized classes.

[Menace13]

see the chomping dragoon as a mario.

Then what is the non-chomping dragoon?

Mario is human. Mario would be pretty worthless if you had to get 3 frags with specialized classes to afford him. At that point, you'd do better sticking with the specialized classes.

Not to mention that the dragoon is not at ALL The Mario. It is the fastest class in the game in long hallways!

Anyways, I find pounce a nice way to get around the map, but I personally prefer to use chomp when fighting. If you see a goon jumping towards a lucisuit before chomping him, that's possibly me.

[OhaiReapd]

Chomp is more fun, if I want to jump on someone to kill them, I'll go to Extreme Trampoline.

[A Spork]

Pounce feels like a movement tool, and sure its nice to knock someone silly, but it just feels awkward to try and use it as the primary attack, plus it makes no sense at all. What animal kills its prey by running into them repeatedly? Compare this to animals who may strike it, but after the initial hit, they bite/claw it to death.

[Anonymoose]

Pounce feels like a movement tool, and sure its nice to knock someone silly, but it just feels awkward to try and use it as the primary attack, plus it makes no sense at all. What animal kills its prey by running into them repeatedly? Compare this to animals who may strike it, but after the initial hit, they bite/claw it to death.

Bulls
Rhinoceroses
Triceratops (rawr)
Goats/Gazelle/Deer?
And more...

Pounce is only made into a "primary attack" by how you (the individual) uses it, if you don't like it being your primary attack, simply use chomp more!
IMO chomp is made fun by the fact that it is harder to use proficiently and it has the potential to do more damage than pounce, there is a smug sense of satisfaction when you chomp in lieu of pouncing, simply because chomping is harder to master.

[mooseberry]

Triceratops (rawr)
Goats/Gazelle/Deer?

Yeah but they have to do it a lot. Those plants fight back hard.

[Meisseli]

"I don't care." since you obviously left out the option: both are equally fun, and therefore both should be used equally, which is not the case in 1.1 or 1.2 GPP.

[Saliva]

Pounce is more fun but I would prefer that using both chomp and pounce were necessary. One way to do it easily would be to reduce pounce and chomp damage and allow chomping when charging pounce/pouncing.

[David]

My idea:  make pounce do no damage, and let people chomp mid-pounce.

Probably a naff idea, it's too early for me to bother thinking before I post.

[Nux]

Bulls
Rhinoceroses
Triceratops (rawr)
Goats/Gazelle/Deer?
And more...

Yeah but they have to do it a lot. Those plants fight back hard.

Fixed that for you. Every example he gave was a herbivore, not just those 4.

So yes, the question was about 'prey' which is when the animal is killing to eat and in that way Anonymoose was incorrect. But ignoring the misuse of the word prey, he has more of a point; it is true to say those animals attack by running at the target repeatedly (though for gazelle and deer, it's stictly against other male gazelle and deer).

A key thing to note though is that the larger ones (the goon I would consider large) also trample and this is so as to not waste energy when the target is already knocked over. That and it's not easy to work up a speed when you're right next to the thing already. So it would make a lot more sense if 'pounce' meant what it means in nature; a suprise ambush to knock the target off guard. So if realism is your thing, maybe you'd like to try making it a long cool down effect that temporarily disorientates the target and apply on anything hit regardless of where you're looking.

I'm not saying it would be fun, but it would perhaps make more sense.

[Tremulant]

Bulls
Rhinoceroses
Triceratops (rawr)
Goats/Gazelle/Deer?
And more...

Yeah but they have to do it a lot. Those plants fight back hard.

Fixed that for you. Every example he gave was a herbivore, not just those 4.

That's what they want you to believe...

[ziplocpeople]

Pounce is more fun, just not as an attack.

[Nux]

Now that they've fixed locational damage, I'm actually getting head chomps again. Out of sheer joy for this fact I will now vote for chomps, disregarding everything I said before.

[KillerWhale]

My idea:  make pounce do no damage, and let people chomp mid-pounce.

Probably a naff idea, it's too early for me to bother thinking before I post.

I tried doing this, but it only ever got played once. I thought it was a lot of fun.

[Celestial_Rage]

When we tried that, goons got raped hard by chainsuits.

[Nux]

When we tried that, goons got raped hard by chainsuits.

Why's that? Is it because goonoobs had to aim and time thier attacks?

It seems to me that saying goons need an automatic hit because they miss is like saying lucifer cannon needs a homing secondary shot because you miss.

[Celestial_Rage]

The repeat was too long. However, shortening it would make goon overpowered against the larmored+helmeted humans.

[KillerWhale]

I think we should try again with the locational damage fixes now in place, and maybe some more players.

[Nux]

The repeat was too long. However, shortening it would make goon overpowered against the larmored+helmeted humans.

So you're saying there's absolutely no area between 'too much' and 'too little'? If pounce can have a balanced attack damage with a short repeat why can't chomp?

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

It depends. When there's a ton of anarmored it's pretty satisfying to whip around them as they spray useless bullets all over the wall. When there's a suit, however, pouncing is more of an evasion to get closer to the suit so I can headchomp it.

1.1 stlye.

The repeat was too long. However, shortening it would make goon overpowered against the larmored+helmeted humans.

So you're saying there's absolutely no area between 'too much' and 'too little'? If pounce can have a balanced attack damage with a short repeat why can't chomp?

F1.
1.1 goon is 1.5x a second, too fast, gpp is as slow as a granger. A goon aiming at the feet of a human does as much as a granger aiming at the head. Both are againts un-armoured.
What i'd say, is that since adv goon chomp speed is o.k., why not make it the same as that, and adv goon can either move onto the normal goon chomp speed from 1.1 or stay the same?!?
Also goons need to not aim their vision in air to attack a pounce,, make it full 360 degrees around, and make the 'range' to 0 to stop cheating in things like in atcs, poping up and down killing a whole bunch of humans/rets like i already do!  
EDIT: Last point: Thats what people already do with adv marauders, they need to give the old marauder back. It's harder to control but more realistic and faster. You can't just constantly camp in the top corner of the ceiling.

[baybal]

Pounce can shoot targets behind you.