Solution to !setlevel issues.

[David]

If you give admins an L0 command, what are the rules governing it's use?
It's unrealistic to think there will be anything other than them using it whenever asked, so the end result is no different to removing level 1 entirely.

IMO we should never remove someone's name protection unless they can prove their identity somehow.  Otherwise the whole thing is just a giant waste of time.

A false sense of security is worse than none at all.

[Tremulant]

I feel some things need to be set straight for the clueless fanatics here. There are no swarms of people asking their names back. I've experienced two cases over the 1,5 years, starting from the GPP release

The problem here is that you're not active during peak times. What you experience is entirely different from what an L4 experiences during the times you're asleep.

If you'd stop handing bloody L1s to everyone and their dog the issue wouldn't be quite as prominent, i'd be interested to know who uses that command the most... >_>
As for not being around during peak times, I _do_ play at peak times on occasion and really can't say i've noticed a huge number of players complaining of lost qkeys, it's just a handful every now and then who probably shouldn't have been L1'd in the first place.

IMO we should never remove someone's name protection unless they can prove their identity somehow.  Otherwise the whole thing is just a giant waste of time.

qft, as they say.

[F50]

And how the heck would you want someone to prove their identity? Its blasted impossible unless you store a few ip addresses that they connected from, in which case you might be able to verify that they come from the same city.

The fact is, its impossible for people to prove their identity. To do so when asked makes sense, however. An active player who cares about the name they use will find it a little bit odd when they can't use their name and their qkey hasn't changed. It forms an after-the-fact security (not the best thing in the world, but what else can be done). If we had problems with this before, it would have been noticed. To be fair, I think the devs, when contacted, also operate by this policy.

It should be noted that name protection isn't "secure" even if it was impossible to set "regular players" back to L0, since adding a tag, or a stylistic flourish, or replacing a 0 for an O is enough to "use" someone's name. It is only capable of confirming that a player has a particular qkey attached to a certain name that won't change every 5 minutes.

I wouldn't mind seeing it gone I guess, especially if people really do think it is meant to keep your name safe or something.

[David]

I can prove my ID easily enough, via my forum/irc/email accounts, pgp/smime keys, and various other bits and pieces.

If someone is that unknown that no one has an alternate contact method for them, then why do they need name protection in the first place?


My position on this is still that the whole thing is a massive waste of time.

[ziplocpeople]

I can prove my ID easily enough, via my forum/irc/email accounts, pgp/smime keys, and various other bits and pieces.

If someone is that unknown that no one has an alternate contact method for them, then why do they need name protection in the first place?


My position on this is still that the whole thing is a massive waste of time.

So just because someone doesn't have the time, or know-how to go on the forums, or IRC, to ask for their name back they don't matter, even if they log in a significant number of hours in game. Sure, this might not be exactly a regular occurrence, as people who lose their qkeys often enough are gone for a while, but that aside if they don't already have a forum account, regular on IRC, or advertise their email in-game constantly, how are they to prove their identity? I'm starting to think Trem should move to retina scanning instead of this outdated GUID system. I'm almost being serious here, I mean how else can you prove who you are- I mean there's an extremely off-chance of a new install having a qkey generated that could be identical, to say, Norf's, and that most certainly wouldn't be good. Of course, the chances of that are beyond reasonable, point being "proof of identity" means absolute shit on the internet (at least, in many cases.) Unless there's an FBI agent lurking around here?

For future reference the title for level 1 is "Server Regular," not "Active community member." Perhaps this is the real issue that needs to be addressed. If the title is "Server Regular" then it must be for server regulars, if it's been deemed that not all regulars should have it, then perhaps the title should be changed? Just my two cents.

My position on this is still that the current system is broken, and we should consider retina scanners to replace the current GUID system. I really hope nobody is taking the retina scanner thing seriously, that'd be sad.

~Medi

[Meisseli]

Mieselli, as much as I exaggerated the issue, you exaggerated the position of everyone for setlevel. It is not a power grab; the "power" in question is the ability to switch players between L1/L0, which is negligibly powerful. You make it seem like we're protesting and pissed off and demanding setlevel, when all that we're doing is defending the points that we're making. Surely, you don't expect us to keel and roll over just because you think your point is more valid than ours? The privileged that is being requested is one that would make the server run more smoothly, and would ease the frustrations of the apparent many people who have to deal with people who lose their qkeys. And don't act like players learning about qkeys cannot come with admins having the ability to bypass the issue. They can go hand in hand quite well.

No, Plugae Rgibner, that one was directed at the many people in this and the other thread going developers are dicks, abusing their rights, dealing out horrible, torturing punishments for everyone and whatnot about things not even related at all to the on-topic !l0/!l1 discussion. These are who in my opinion should view their adminship as a priviledge, not a right.

I've never seen handing out level ones as nothing more than a perfect way to clutter your admin.dat files (and for some people to spy on the players who they are inferior to, to satisfy their curiosity).

Anyway, I can safely agree that the whole !l0/!l1 is a giant waste of time, just like the drama revolving around it seems to be. I don't really find any support for why this issue is so big, and if you still insist on it being a major thing, why not follow the good advice given in the other thread, do it. I'm under the impression that F50 knows how to code, for example.

[Plague Bringer]

Mieselli

Plugae Rgibner

I see what you did there! You played on my honest mistake like an asshole. I've got to run right now, but I just wanted to comment on how adorable and clever you are, you little studmuffin!

[F50]

why not follow the good advice given in the other thread, do it. I'm under the impression that F50 knows how to code, for example.

Meisseli, coding L0 that only works on certain admin levels (such as L1s) would take half an hour, with time enough to submit that to the bug tracker and have a cup of tea. The Brindus mod rotation is already set up so that admins cannot setlevel people to or from their own level, modifying that to only work on admins two levels below you would be trivial. I may have missed a few other suggestions, feel free to remind me.

Ask for it if you want it, its been done.

The advice is empty and void. Ask.

[Menace13]

Meisseli, coding L0 that only works on certain admin levels (such as L1s) would take half an hour, with time enough to submit that to the bug tracker and have a cup of tea.

Depends on the cup of tea, but I would say less.

[Undeference]

some discussion about l0 if you want to do it

[Celestial_Rage]

Haven't most, if not all, of these suggestions been implemented in 1.1 qvms? Admin autoexpire, L1/L0, etc? I think it's a pretty simple matter to port it over.

[F50]

Very simple, which is more or less what I was talking about. However, it seems that the devs are trying to put it in the admin bot (thanks to undeference's link), which is a different beast.