Gameplay Bugfixes Update 2011-08-08

[Lakitu7]

Hi everyone! Today I am pushing out to the official servers a new set of VMS with, among other smaller non-gameplay fixes, makes the following changes. We are not starting an official new phase, as these are not expected to be significant enough to warrant one, but we will be making the balance data separable on our end in case they are more significant than expected. Tremstats is not being reset.

* (bug 5001) Fix repeater BP queueing, build them with full BP available (/dev/humancontroller)
 - Set the queue time short to encourage builders to wait for the queue rather than replace the repeater (Norfenstein)

* (bug 4999) Marauder+ zap bugfixes (/dev/humancontroller)
 - Use spherical distance checks instead of cubic
 - Fix buildables' ability to be zapped by two marauder+'s at once
 - Chain to targets visible to each other, rather than visible to the zapper (e.g. chains can go around corners)
 - Fix zap effect disappearing too early when target dies

* (bug 5087) Improve widetrace (alien swipe) hit detection (/dev/humancontroller)
Specifically, this improves ability to swipe/bite humans that are pressed against a wall.

* (bug 5020) Allow dragoon pounces to do damage if released before the end of a previously-fired weapon's delay. Previously it would fire, but not do any damage. Thanks Dracone for reporting.

* (bug 5039) Fix buildables to initialize with the correct normal vector, which should improve falsely self-destructing eggs (/dev/humancontroller)

* (bug 5092) Improve ckit repair targeting direction (/dev/humancontroller/)

* Add ready-related text to cg_tutorial during intermission

Thanks DevHC for submitting so many of these.

[Lakitu7]

Okay, this is now up on both official servers.

[sirshiz]

Great bugfixes everyone!

Maybe this will also restore some faith in the devs for Dracone as he had experienced little feedback for his submitted bugs.

Progress is progressing at a progressive progression!

[FreaK]

Zapping bases was already strong, I'm worried now for competitive matches whenever aliens get s2 they will just zap rush and end it.

[Cadynum]

Zapping bases was already strong, I'm worried now for competitive matches whenever aliens get s2 they will just zap rush and end it.

If it turns out zap is too strong then it would have to be rebalanced. It's important things work intuitively.

[WarLock]

Nice job to all dev, it's the way to go
+1
WarLock

[Meisseli]

Zap now connects +1 to +2 buildings compared to before. The change is obviously good, zap is more intuitive, but needs some nerfing.

  - Fix buildables' ability to be zapped by two marauder+'s at once

What does this mean specifically? Two marauders couldn't damage with zap at the exact same time - or while the other's animation was still playing?

[Lakitu7]

If it turns out zap is too strong then it would have to be rebalanced. It's important things work intuitively.

Right

What does this mean specifically? Two marauders couldn't damage with zap at the exact same time - or while the other's animation was still playing?

Honestly I'm not certain. I didn't verify that part of the bug because it was all one patch. I just made sure it worked afterward. Ask DevHC if you really care.

[Menace13]

Granger+ is still invincible to fall damage while wallwalk is on. *cough*

[jm82792]

Humans need a guide for building properly.
I see so many poor builds, then people say "Crap those buffed up marauders are zapping us to pieces!".
However if they build properly marauders aren't as powerful as they are cracked up to be.

[/dev/humancontroller]

Zap now connects +1 to +2 buildings compared to before. The change is obviously good, zap is more intuitive, but needs some nerfing.

  - Fix buildables' ability to be zapped by two marauder+'s at once

What does this mean specifically? Two marauders couldn't damage with zap at the exact same time - or while the other's animation was still playing?

"at the same time" doesn't make much sense. yes, while the other's animations is being played. however that applies only to chained zaps (not primary zaps).

[A Spork]

Granger+ is still invincible to fall damage while wallwalk is on. *cough*

you act like you want friend granger to go splat when he slips D:

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

good changes.

i had thought something odd about swipe range, and i can remember a few times a pounce seemed to do nothing at all.

but no flamer change?

[CorSair]

Humans need a guide for building properly.
I see so many poor builds, then people say "Crap those buffed up marauders are zapping us to pieces!".
However if they build properly marauders aren't as powerful as they are cracked up to be.

Problem solved.

Granger+ is still invincible to fall damage while wallwalk is on. *cough*

Actually, granger uses his acrobatic skills while using wallwalk.

Anyway, these fixes have done good, to this moment.

[Qrntz]

a few times a pounce seemed to do nothing at all.

A few times? Perhaps your ping helps.
Pounce as it is almost never worked right for me (except 1.1, don't remember if it was like that in early phases of GPP).
The interesting thing is, though, that if during the pounce I hold the jump key as if I would to continue a pounce by a jump (the jump also carries the pounce's 'lightsaber') that seems to make me hit at a much more acceptable rate.

[ziplocpeople]

I still think giving the mara a gradient damage zap would be best, maybe increasing its max targets to compensate- simply because it doesn't make sense for it to do the same amount of damage for every single target.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

a few times a pounce seemed to do nothing at all.

A few times? Perhaps your ping helps.
Pounce as it is almost never worked right for me (except 1.1, don't remember if it was like that in early phases of GPP).
The interesting thing is, though, that if during the pounce I hold the jump key as if I would to continue a pounce by a jump (the jump also carries the pounce's 'lightsaber') that seems to make me hit at a much more acceptable rate.

saying "few times" because in the heat of battle, it's sometimes hard to tell.

and it wasent just unlagged's weirdness.  stuff like a full pounce to the face doing nothing.  didnt happen often or reliably enough for me to justify reporting it.

also, having played a bit with the updates, i will say mara's swipe seems a lot more intuitive.  goon chomp as well.

[Meisseli]

Zap now connects +1 to +2 buildings compared to before. The change is obviously good, zap is more intuitive, but needs some nerfing.

  - Fix buildables' ability to be zapped by two marauder+'s at once

What does this mean specifically? Two marauders couldn't damage with zap at the exact same time - or while the other's animation was still playing?

"at the same time" doesn't make much sense. yes, while the other's animations is being played. however that applies only to chained zaps (not primary zaps).

So if I now understand this correctly - the other marauder's zap damage to the same structures was completely nullified if the first's zap animation was still playing (except the "primary" structure)? Just trying to get a sense in how big of a change the bugfix is here.

[/dev/humancontroller]

So if I now understand this correctly - the other marauder's zap damage to the same structures was completely nullified if the first's zap animation was still playing (except the "primary" structure)?

yes (to be clear: the exception is the "other" marauder's primary target).

[Meisseli]

So if I now understand this correctly - the other marauder's zap damage to the same structures was completely nullified if the first's zap animation was still playing (except the "primary" structure)?

yes (to be clear: the exception is the "other" marauder's primary target).

OK. Seems like overall the zap has undergone quite a big gameplay change then - it probably needs some nerfing.

(I'd probably reduce number of targets to 3 or 4 and decrease the sphere's range, or maybe even lessen the damage to 50)

[Dracone]

Dev HC's action on the alien attacks being fucked up is incredibly major in a good way. Aliens probably won't get fucked over by shitty no-hits anymore. Playing aliens was starting to feel like playing UrT.

[Kiwi]

Thanks for the updates devs, I look forward to trying these out when I get home

[Pazuzu]

Holy crap the new zap is broken. We just had aliens win 16 games in a row, largely because of zap rushes.

[UniqPhoeniX]

IIRC the zap chain range is now spherical with a radius of 200qu, while with the box shape it was ~115qu from center to side of the box, and ~200qu to the corner of the box. Which means it is far more likely to chain to max amount of targets now.
Tho I'd also have preferred to have chain damage fall off with distance, like splash damage.

[Menace13]

Tho I'd also have preferred to have chain damage fall off with distance, like splash damage.

Agreed.

[Nux]

Or you could share the damage between all parts of the chain for realism...

...if you want realism...

...which, of course, you don't.

[sirshiz]

Or you could share the damage between all parts of the chain for realism...

...if you want realism...

...which, of course, you don't.

Do you mean if you target one building/human it's 100% damage to that target and then split 50% if it's two, and so on and so forth? Because if so, that's a damned good idea.

[kharnov]

Or you could share the damage between all parts of the chain for realism...

So to survive being struck by lighting, all I have to do is surround myself with enough friends to absorb all the electricity?

[Norfenstein]

Do you mean if you target one building/human it's 100% damage to that target and then split 50% if it's two, and so on and so forth? Because if so, that's a damned good idea.

That's how it used to work, and it defeated the purpose of the zap. Aliens need something for dealing with a mass of defensive structures, something that gives humans a reason not to make their entire defense a single wall of rifle-camped turrets. The zap is their grenade.

Tho I'd also have preferred to have chain damage fall off with distance, like splash damage.

The zap IS intended to function like a splash weapon, so this is something worth seriously considering. It might be more fun for the range to be bigger than it was but for structures farther away to still be in less danger. The biggest benefit would probably be humans not having to build quite so precisely to protect themselves from marauders.

I'm worried now for competitive matches whenever aliens get s2 they will just zap rush and end it.

What I could really use is for people that play competitive matches to test the repeater buildpoint queuing. You'll now have to wait a few seconds after a repeater-powered structure is destroyed before having the points to rebuild it. This is something that only ever affects gameplay when humans build and actually try to maintain forward bases, and I've seen it be an issue exactly once in public games. That one time was when I used two overlapping repeaters to seal off the door to the box room in Tremor with turrets (the human base was in this room); even though aliens attacked repeatedly with goons, they couldn't respawn and return to our base quite fast enough to bring down the forward defense. This is something I'm going to have to balance almost entirely based on feedback (and demos!) from organized play.

[Celestial_Rage]

We can provide demos from the GPP Tournament semifinals that will happen tomorrow, if you are interested.