Recent changes concerning mara zap

[Qrntz]

sometimes I think we talked a lot about balance, but we never talk about adding more things to the game(like a flying/swimmer alien, or a grenade launcher for humans)

We just never talk about wolfbr anymore. Deal with it.

[Plague Bringer]

We talked new shit to death and determined it was just that. More talk about flying/swimming aliens, vehicles, grenade launchers, creep bombs, aliens crawling on aliens, tyrants pooping aliens, etc. etc. is simply not worth our time. I've been at it for half a fucking decade now, and I got here late.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

We talked new shit to death and determined it was just that. More talk about flying/swimming aliens, vehicles, grenade launchers, creep bombs, aliens crawling on aliens, tyrants pooping aliens, etc. etc. is simply not worth our time. I've been at it for half a fucking decade now, and I got here late.

yea, let's talk about balance some more.

rabblerabblerabblemassdrivershotgunrabblerabblera bble

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

Actually what should happen to marauder zap:
Since it is already overpowered with its instant zap, why not make the zap do 80 dmg instead of 60 (80 in 1.1), but make the zap not-instant again, but also add a feature where the zap is sort of half 1.1-half gpp, as you click the button, it does 20 damage, but then continues and you'll have to stay close to the structure for the remaining 60 damage to be completed.

So really, zap's instant damage does 20 damage, but continuous for one second (As in 1.1) does 60 damage.

Effectively, it is stronger in damage per second, but not any stronger than 1.1, but also it isn't overpowering in gpp by zap-and hide method. People still can do this, but they will be probably be doing 20 damage plus another 20 damage from time to hiding.

At devs: Stop the 'zap around corners', it looks really glitchy zapping through a wall. (it also works in 1.1, if i extend the zap range in the qvm)

[Dracone]

I suggest a return to the 1.1 zap's damage concept, but for structures only. Keep the damage to enemies the same, while doing something like 100% damage to target structure, 50% for all chained.

Just a hurried idea. Honestly, the mara has both a major advantage and disadvantage in its 1.1 to GPP jump height change. It's so easy now to completely ignore all combat and just rush the human base. Unless you have a luci, or you stand under a low ceiling, you will not interfere with maras getting past your rushing group and into your base, which is essentially either "gg" or "camp to stop their mara rushes."

However, the mara's jump height being greater has also hurt its combat potential a good bit, although you can pin that mostly on how humans' dodge has no counter, even for the best maras. Unless you're talking zap, that is, but that would only apply to weakly armored humans who shouldn't be fighting maras alone anyways.

[Spiney]

.

[Menace13]

Also, I noticed that the mara zap actually has LONGER range than a tesla.
If you stand in front of a tesla, just slightly outside it's range, you can zap it.

This was always true.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

Just a hurried idea. Honestly, the mara has both a major advantage and disadvantage in its 1.1 to GPP jump height change.

I dont think it ever changed, but the manoeuvre did. Air acceleration was increased from 1f to 4f or something...

Unless you have a luci, or you stand under a low ceiling, you will not interfere with maras getting past your rushing group and into your base, which is essentially either "gg" or "camp to stop their mara rushes."

I recommend not chasing a marauder with a luci, that's just plain luck to get him. If people used lasguns or any instant projectile weapon, and actually work as a group, marauders would be totally useless.

Also, i would like to state:
1.1's marauder was mostly used (in my terms) for its rapid swipe, doing the SAME damage/second as a normal goon. (not in gpp, the goon's chomp rate is decreased), and also for its ability to quickly 'jump and swipe around' in mid air. I think the marauder's range should increase rather than zap being instant againts humans as at marauder's highest point in their jump, they can't swipe humans below as their claw range (bite graphic animation to the outside) is too short.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

[img/]http://steamcommunity.com/id/ZdrytchX/screenshot/541780338568593291?post_id=1275288248_218606254867663#_=_[/img]
From my 1.1 qvm of course. It gets really strong, but to manage the strong zaps at once, you need to be within the radius of ur target while moving around quickly, at the same time while zapping. Its my idea. Another tactic that comes up with this zap is that since the zap period is 3 whole seconds, you can zap once, and chase the human around by chomping.

But where the original idea came from is from korx's zap, where it is a area-effect type, and you must hold down the right button to do damage. It has no reload time so you can stop zapping and bite immediately. But the best thing about it is that you don't have to aim. I think the devs said something about making the zap not 'need to aim' but i still have to aim.  I tried it on a devmap LAN server, without a rc. I stand on top of the turret, zap, nothing. Then i aim at the turret, zap, and it zaps.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

screw the picture. Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIJH9RdC-wU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
At the start is me showing field of vision replacing blur effects in pouncing. It really isn't 'effects', just zooming in and out at the right time. I hope the devs get this idea into 1.2.
At the second half, is the marauder demonstrating the zap i showed in the picture. (which won't show) It is powerful, but you have to maintain ur radius from enemy for full damage.

And by the way - i did this on my qvm as a test. I may not really put it in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0VjMuGR6U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Me on a non-pure server with my ui.qvm. It takes time to get used to it though.

[Nux]

I can't really see the zooming effect very well on this video. If the same effect occurs in demos then I suggest you upload a recording from said demo instead.

Does this effect stil work when you don't face the direction you are pouncing?

If humans were ultra-nimble fighters or the zap had some slow recharge time, I'd perhaps consider the easy-zap as a nice addition. As it stands though, it just seems like a lazy version what what we've already got.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I can't really see the zooming effect very well on this video. If the same effect occurs in demos then I suggest you upload a recording from said demo instead.

Does this effect stil work when you don't face the direction you are pouncing?

If humans were ultra-nimble fighters or the zap had some slow recharge time, I'd perhaps consider the easy-zap as a nice addition. As it stands though, it just seems like a lazy version what what we've already got.

humans can reach 1000+ ups while dodging (from a dead stop in one "jump"), can dodge across the gap in an acts base, and are slightly faster than dretches while sprinting.

oh yea, they run the same speed backwards as forwards.  you should try that sometime to see how hard that really is in RL =D

as for zap's refire time, isnt is just a wee bit longer than a MD?

not that i want virus' zap.  i just feel humans are more nimble than they have any right to be.

[Undeference]

I don't know what the point of this thread is right now, but I can correct some things

humans… are slightly faster than dretches while sprinting.

Wrong; dretches are still faster

oh yea, they run the same speed backwards as forwards.

Wrong

as for zap's refire time, isnt is just a wee bit longer than a MD?

I wouldn't classify 1/2 second as "a wee bit"

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I don't know what the point of this thread is right now, but I can correct some things

humans… are slightly faster than dretches while sprinting.

Wrong; dretches are still faster

oh yea, they run the same speed backwards as forwards.

Wrong

as for zap's refire time, isnt is just a wee bit longer than a MD?

I wouldn't classify 1/2 second as "a wee bit"

interesting.  i now see that moving backwards is indeed slower, but only 20 ups so if sprinting.  i also see that dretches are very slightly faster, if neither the dretch or human player jumps, is not being shot, and is not in contact with a grenade or luci detonation.  this is also assuming "straight line movement", which the human desires as he can keep aim and speed. the alien must avoid straight lines, as he must dodge bullets, and thus can rarely maintain speed long enough to close the gap.

i still feel that either the humans are too fast and nimble, or the aliens are too slow and clunkey.

[Menace13]

interesting.  i now see that moving backwards is indeed slower, but only 20 ups so if sprinting.  i also see that dretches are very slightly faster, if neither the dretch or human player jumps, is not being shot, and is not in contact with a grenade or luci detonation.  this is also assuming "straight line movement", which the human desires as he can keep aim and speed. the alien must avoid straight lines, as he must dodge bullets, and thus can rarely maintain speed long enough to close the gap.

i still feel that either the humans are too fast and nimble, or the aliens are too slow and clunkey.

Dretch can easily go faster than they would in a straight line with some skillful jumping. Toss in wallwalk and they can easily catch up.

Humans are only fast if the person using them is good with them. Any alien (even tyrant) can strafe jump fast enough to catch up with a retreating human who is using dodge to get back fast (if they are good at strafe jumping). And besides, mara can air-strafe and bounce of walls, goon can just pounce, and rant can charge. And Friend Basi/Granger wouldn't/shouldn't be chasing in the first place.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

interesting.  i now see that moving backwards is indeed slower, but only 20 ups so if sprinting.  i also see that dretches are very slightly faster, if neither the dretch or human player jumps, is not being shot, and is not in contact with a grenade or luci detonation.  this is also assuming "straight line movement", which the human desires as he can keep aim and speed. the alien must avoid straight lines, as he must dodge bullets, and thus can rarely maintain speed long enough to close the gap.

i still feel that either the humans are too fast and nimble, or the aliens are too slow and clunkey.

Dretch can easily go faster than they would in a straight line with some skillful jumping. Toss in wallwalk and they can easily catch up.

Humans are only fast if the person using them is good with them. Any alien (even tyrant) can strafe jump fast enough to catch up with a retreating human who is using dodge to get back fast (if they are good at strafe jumping). And besides, mara can air-strafe and bounce of walls, goon can just pounce, and rant can charge. And Friend Basi/Granger wouldn't/shouldn't be chasing in the first place.

jumping is in a "straight line", meaning you stand a better chance of eating bullets than if you did not jump.  wallwalk slows you to maximum run speed, plus the extra shit on the walls of many maps means extra distance you have to move in a direction other than towards your target.  mara, goon, and rant all have the HP to accommodate their movement. 

you dont have to be THAT good to be fast with a human.  human movement seems to be of intermediate difficulty.  like your basic strafejump, only slightly more obvious (there is not a strafejump button, but there are sprint and dodge keys available for bind).   

[Tremulant]

interesting.  i now see that moving backwards is indeed slower, but only 20 ups so if sprinting.  i also see that dretches are very slightly faster, if neither the dretch or human player jumps, is not being shot, and is not in contact with a grenade or luci detonation.  this is also assuming "straight line movement", which the human desires as he can keep aim and speed. the alien must avoid straight lines, as he must dodge bullets, and thus can rarely maintain speed long enough to close the gap.

i still feel that either the humans are too fast and nimble, or the aliens are too slow and clunkey.

Dretch can easily go faster than they would in a straight line with some skillful jumping. Toss in wallwalk and they can easily catch up.

Humans are only fast if the person using them is good with them. Any alien (even tyrant) can strafe jump fast enough to catch up with a retreating human who is using dodge to get back fast (if they are good at strafe jumping). And besides, mara can air-strafe and bounce of walls, goon can just pounce, and rant can charge. And Friend Basi/Granger wouldn't/shouldn't be chasing in the first place.

jumping is in a "straight line", meaning you stand a better chance of eating bullets than if you did not jump.  wallwalk slows you to maximum run speed, plus the extra shit on the walls of many maps means extra distance you have to move in a direction other than towards your target.  mara, goon, and rant all have the HP to accommodate their movement. 

you dont have to be THAT good to be fast with a human.  human movement seems to be of intermediate difficulty.  like your basic strafejump, only slightly more obvious (there is not a strafejump button, but there are sprint and dodge keys available for bind).   

I take it you're practically godlike when playing as humans thesedays, then?

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I take it you're practically godlike when playing as humans thesedays, then?

no, nor as aliens for that matter.