What eventually should be addressed.

[jm82792]

Tremulous as many people know has great game-play, it is free, and all of the other features.
However, as most of us know -- the IOQ3 engine is old, and it pales to comparison to any (somewhat) modern engine.
There are three ways of fixing this issue: Pretending it does not exist, modifying the existing engine or porting it over to a newer engine. As before there has been discussions regarding this issue, however, perhaps someone has an idea that will not include porting the game to a closed source engine or some other ridiculous concept
Single features being added to the current engine may be a plausible and worthwhile action.
Examples include (everything should be skillfully used in moderation) bump mapping, parallax mapping, bloom, better map lighting/color bleeding, smooth shading, and such.
Perhaps we can slowly add various upgrades that will improve the visual appeal of the game?
Yes it is a bandage, however, anything is better then nothing.

[Conzul]

Hah, I remember about 2 yrs ago I tried to reimport all of tremulous's assets back into blender, and then BGE. My framerate was like 12fps max, but it worked.

[jm82792]

Hah, I remember about 2 yrs ago I tried to reimport all of tremulous's assets back into blender, and then BGE. My framerate was like 12fps max, but it worked.

The primary issue with that concept is not getting assets into BGE but the gameplay, and the whole under the hood deal.
BGE is actually not a bad idea considering in a year or two, GPUs will be even more powerful and even cheaper.

[Tremulant]

BGE is actually not a bad idea considering in a year or two, GPUs will be even more powerful and even cheaper.

Are we due your cheap quad core android tablets(i think that's what you said we'd have in the near future last time) yet?
If an engine performs terribly don't make excuses, either improve it or use something else, waiting a year of two for an inefficient engine to become viable due to dropping hardware prices isn't really acceptable.

[jm82792]

BGE is actually not a bad idea considering in a year or two, GPUs will be even more powerful and even cheaper.

Are we due your cheap quad core android tablets(i think that's what you said we'd have in the near future last time) yet?
If an engine performs terribly don't make excuses, either improve it or use something else, waiting a year of two for an inefficient engine to become viable due to dropping hardware prices isn't really acceptable.

Actually we are due for them shortly  
Blender is constantly being improved and I think it could be a viable option, however I doubt it's the wisest one.
If (within a theoretical circumstance that will never happen) some Joe or Bob showed he did a ton of trem related work with it, then a brief consideration might be worth while.
My previously stated example for technology advancing is that sometimes certain solutions are within being realized, but aren't there yet.
Expecting to get to the moon by strapping an ICBM to the Wright Brother's airplane won't be anything but an epic failure.
I understand what you are saying; however, you should not hastily create a conclusion.
I am not saying "BGE!!   (etc.)" I am just mentioning that better GPUs and CPUs is a factor that should be considered.

[Tremulant]

BGE is actually not a bad idea considering in a year or two, GPUs will be even more powerful and even cheaper.

Are we due your cheap quad core android tablets(i think that's what you said we'd have in the near future last time) yet?
If an engine performs terribly don't make excuses, either improve it or use something else, waiting a year of two for an inefficient engine to become viable due to dropping hardware prices isn't really acceptable.

Actually we are due for them shortly  

Your definition of cheap may be somewhat different to mine.

I am not saying "BGE!!   (etc.)" I am just mentioning that better GPUs and CPUs is a factor that should be considered.

I think a few people may actually be aware of the increasing power and decreasing cost of computer hardware over time, you probably don't need to keep pointing it out...

[/dev/humancontroller]

a big problem is that the game logic is programmed in a way that is suitable for a closed-source but open-API engine of 1999, and the entrenched programming paradigms inherited from there are fucking inproductive compared to some other options. this also means that simply porting the game logic to a new engine isn't possible without a semi-full rewrite, unless the new engine is mostly Q3-compatible.

[jm82792]

BGE is actually not a bad idea considering in a year or two, GPUs will be even more powerful and even cheaper.

Are we due your cheap quad core android tablets(i think that's what you said we'd have in the near future last time) yet?
If an engine performs terribly don't make excuses, either improve it or use something else, waiting a year of two for an inefficient engine to become viable due to dropping hardware prices isn't really acceptable.

Actually we are due for them shortly  

Your definition of cheap may be somewhat different to mine.

I am not saying "BGE!!   (etc.)" I am just mentioning that better GPUs and CPUs is a factor that should be considered.

I think a few people may actually be aware of the increasing power and decreasing cost of computer hardware over time, you probably don't need to keep pointing it out...

Yeah cheap, I'm slow to spend the $400 on a quad core tablet.
However I spent $1100 on my quad core desktop a couple years back........

[Conzul]

a big problem is that the game logic is programmed in a way that is suitable for a closed-source but open-API engine of 1999, and the entrenched programming paradigms inherited from there are fucking inproductive compared to some other options. this also means that simply porting the game logic to a new engine isn't possible without a semi-full rewrite, unless the new engine is mostly Q3-compatible.

Yeah, but a BGE port is more likely to occur than some better options, just because it's Blender (easy) and any old ***** can do it. I've been playing with the notion of giving it another try, now that I have a hexacore and 16gb memory. Needless to say, it wouldn't be accessible to anyone without the newest hardware.
    Still, my test of 2yrs ago involved buttloads of normal maps and shoddy optimization.....maybe I could do better, especially considering the courses I've taken since then.

[jm82792]

I'm not pushing any engine, I just needed an excuse to write and this(the first post) is something I wanted to say.

[Qrntz]

XreaL
/thread

[Thorn]

XreaL is long dead, Darkplaces.

This thread is no less pointless than the other 20 "engin sux trem 2.0 shuld be on cryengine3". I wonder what someone who thinks so highly of himself, such as jm82792 really expected from this thread?

[Cadynum]

Pretending it does not exist

This is the way to go.

[gimhael]

Actually there has been recent activity to add an Xreal based renderer to the ioquake3 engine (the renderer can be loaded from a separate DLL, so the original renderer is still available for any GeForce 2 users).

[jm82792]

Actually there has been recent activity to add an Xreal based renderer to the ioquake3 engine (the renderer can be loaded from a separate DLL, so the original renderer is still available for any GeForce 2 users).

Last time I checked it out and tried it on my computer it was terrible with the FPS.

[jm82792]

Pretending it does not exist

This is the way to go.

Perhaps 

[vcxzet]

let me list the problems of xreal
-needs a good video card (you need a good video card for effects but it requires a very good video card for no reason)
-development is stopped or too slow
-not tested enough, may introduce bugs any time

[/dev/humancontroller]

-development is stopped or too slow

how is that relevant for a basically finished engine?

[vcxzet]

-development is stopped or too slow

how is that relevant for a basically finished engine?

it is not relevant for a basically finished engine.
basically finished... quite relevant

[David]

It's relevant for a finished engine too, as it would mean the trem devs would have to take over support for it, and we'd also be back in exactly the same problem in a few years.

[/dev/humancontroller]

It's relevant for a finished engine too, as it would mean the trem devs would have to take over support for it, and we'd also be back in exactly the same problem in a few years.

as with any other engine, as the development may stop at any time.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

Valve?

I recently noticed how easy it is for some people to get reference and stuff from valve, maybe we could try moving to their engine, hoping not to remove the physics entirely that are important to old trem players, and the original devs gets the credits. (such as new marauder, i noticed that a majority of the marauder experts in gpp never played 1.1, i think i just find it too hard to adapt to the new air acceleration/manoeuvre.)

[Celestial_Rage]

i noticed that a majority of the marauder experts in gpp never played 1.1, i think i just find it too hard to adapt to the new air acceleration/manoeuvre.)

Lol, no.

[Nux]

I think you're a little confused so to be sure: Valve is a games developer which also distributes games via Steam. Valve also developed the Source engine.

Also the air acceleration you speak of is a feature of the id Tech 3 engine and hence the ioquake3 engine, which Tremulous uses, and was there in 1.1 as well but you notice it more with mara now. Also, as I understand it, a change of engine means that although in theory the physics and such wouldn't have to change, in practice it's a lot easier to use what the engine provides which won't necessarily play quite the same.

[Volt]

The engines just fine just replace all the stupid low quality images add new models fix shit up and we're back in business.

[Ingar]

The engines just fine just replace all the stupid low quality images add new models fix shit up and we're back in business.

I tried that once, people went "OMG 60Mb .PK3"

Porting tremulous to a different engine doesn't exists,
If you have to rewrite the code and redo all assets, you're basicly making a new game.
Assemble your team, write a project roadmap, and start doing stuff.

[Tremulant]

The engines just fine just replace all the stupid low quality images add new models fix shit up and we're back in business.

I tried that once, people went "OMG 60Mb .PK3"

You had developed a severe JPEG allergy at the time, it didn't need to be quite so large, and it wouldn't matter so much for a common texture set that can be shipped by default and re-used.

[Volt]

The engines just fine just replace all the stupid low quality images add new models fix shit up and we're back in business.

I tried that once, people went "OMG 60Mb .PK3" Maybe if you didn't use Tgas and more size relevant image formats it wouldn't be 60mbs?

Porting tremulous to a different engine doesn't exists Lie,
If you have to rewrite the code and redo all assets, you're basicly making a new game. nope
Assemble your team Done., write a project roadmap Done., and start doing stuff.

done click me for picz

[StevenM]

It SEEMS as though volt and his time have done more, in shorter amount of time, than the devs have.............

[jm82792]

Volt has done well, we just need to incorporate some patches into trem to bring it up to speed.
Bump mapping or the like would be nice.
I'm not competent enough to do so, but a couple patches would be nice then we can fix the assets and have stuff work accordingly.
Volt, as extremely competent as you are.... if you need help let me know
Perhaps there are things I can do to help you accelerate your grand plan.
I have some experience animating, mostly simplistic stuff(basic character animation) and I've kept it on the shelf for a few year.
But I think I could do all the walk-cycles and whatnot, plus I have a friend who worked with Dreamworks who could help me out worst case.
However I don't know what your goal is, hopefully it's not a totally different game.