Poll

Does volt claim other people's work as his own?

Yes
33 (78.6%)
No
9 (21.4%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Author Topic: VOLT STEALING ART  (Read 66807 times)

Sixthly

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VOLT STEALING ART
« on: March 03, 2012, 06:59:19 am »
Halo 3 Ranks:



TremZ Ranks:



Chat log of volt telling me he drew them by hand:

Code: [Select]
(01:35:05 AM) Sixthly: http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/1/11/Ranks-1-.jpg
(01:35:56 AM) Sixthly: Those Halo 3 ranks look awfully familiar
(01:36:36 AM) kharnov: yep.
(01:36:38 AM) Sixthly: I think they might have stolen volt's work and changed the colours
(01:37:14 AM) Sixthly: Does anyone have a link to the image volt made that has all of the ranks together?
(01:38:00 AM) volt: Some guy remade those for halo, I adapted them for the forums. There is no issue.
(01:38:24 AM) volt: If there are any legal issues please let me know, because I don't see them.
(01:38:34 AM) kharnov: you do realize they're used on the bungie forums right
(01:39:20 AM) volt: you do realize i redrew them from a deviant art image I found right? had I known there were higher quality versions I would have used those instead.
(01:39:31 AM) volt: Anyways when any legal issues are present with them I'll deal with them, so far I see none.
(01:39:40 AM) kharnov: i don't see how you redrew them
(01:39:49 AM) volt: kharnov:  I can send you the psd if you want.
...
Code: [Select]
(01:49:31 AM) Sixthly: You really did do a great job of redrawing them
(01:49:39 AM) kharnov: oh shit
(01:49:42 AM) volt: Sixthly:  you can do wonders with the pen tool in photoshop
(01:49:55 AM) volt: again you can direct your copyright claim to the original author at beorn@mac.com
(01:50:06 AM) volt: but I am within legal copyright laws.
(01:50:17 AM) Sixthly: Yeah because you redrew them by hand
(01:50:24 AM) Sixthly: and did a really great job!
(01:50:30 AM) kharnov: looks more like a filter applied to the original set of images
(01:50:34 AM) volt: I redrew them based on the image he has on his deviant art with the pen tool.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 05:45:25 pm by Sixthly »
AussieAssault: Australian Tremulous.

hermxiv

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2012, 07:03:40 am »
On a related note, Sixthly has decided to stop using libraries or any resource made publicly available.

Tokai15

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2012, 07:39:03 am »
Halo 3 Ranks:



TremZ Ranks:



Chat log of volt telling me he drew them by hand:

Code: [Select]
(01:35:05 AM) Sixthly: http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/1/11/Ranks-1-.jpg
(01:35:56 AM) Sixthly: Those Halo 3 ranks look awfully familiar
(01:36:36 AM) kharnov: yep.
(01:36:38 AM) Sixthly: I think they might have stolen volt's work and changed the colours
(01:37:14 AM) Sixthly: Does anyone have a link to the image volt made that has all of the ranks together?
(01:38:00 AM) volt: Some guy remade those for halo, I adapted them for the forums. There is no issue.
(01:38:24 AM) volt: If there are any legal issues please let me know, because I don't see them.
(01:38:34 AM) kharnov: you do realize they're used on the bungie forums right
(01:39:20 AM) volt: you do realize i redrew them from a deviant art image I found right? had I known there were higher quality versions I would have used those instead.
(01:39:31 AM) volt: Anyways when any legal issues are present with them I'll deal with them, so far I see none.
(01:39:40 AM) kharnov: i don't see how you redrew them
(01:39:49 AM) volt: kharnov:  I can send you the psd if you want.
...
Code: [Select]
(01:49:31 AM) Sixthly: You really did do a great job of redrawing them
(01:49:39 AM) kharnov: oh shit
(01:49:42 AM) volt: Sixthly:  you can do wonders with the pen tool in photoshop
(01:49:55 AM) volt: again you can direct your copyright claim to the original author at beorn@mac.com
(01:50:06 AM) volt: but I am within legal copyright laws.
(01:50:17 AM) Sixthly: Yeah because you redrew them by hand
(01:50:24 AM) Sixthly: and did a really great job!
(01:50:30 AM) kharnov: looks more like a filter applied to the original set of images
(01:50:34 AM) volt: I redrew them based on the image he has on his deviant art with the pen tool.



You mad about something bro?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 07:49:10 am by Tokai15 »

toast

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2012, 08:34:05 am »
IDGAF

Nux

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2012, 09:16:55 am »
On a related note, Sixthly has decided to stop using libraries or any resource made publicly available.

There's not normally any issue with just using stuff. The trouble comes from using works and derived works to promote and comprise your own project without the consent of the original authors and, where consent is granted but certain rights are retained, attribution. The two sides to this coin are legal issues and moral issues. Volt probably won't face legal issues unless he tries to profit from it, but he will face plenty of moral indignation from people like the OP and me for starters.

I learned early on with volt that:

"was donated" means "was lifted from some site I found"
"I made/drew/created/etc." means "I editted slightly"
"there's nothing wrong with" means "I can get away with"

And so on. Sadly, his 'approach' has made it hard to distinguish between assets he's lifted from sites and assets made by people impressed by said assets. It gives rise to unfortunate rules-of-thumb like "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is" which is particularly sad because other members of that team seem to honestly put the effort in.

Sorry Volt, but you really disappointed me and such bad impressions aren't easy to shake off.

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 07:53:29 pm »
Quote from: volt
I redrew them based on the image he has on his deviant art with the pen tool.
thus, creating derivative work, whether or not the redrawing statement is true.

long ago, when i was given the task to review volt's new sounds, i felt something fishy too.

did i mention that Daemon (the supposed engine name) is a registered trademark according to at least 1 trademark database, in which Unvanquished (the supposed game name) also brings up conflicts?

Tremulant

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 12:01:28 am »
So, volt's a talentless wanker with a penchant for pilfering assets from other games/artists/modellers, crudely photoshopping them(but only when he's feeling particularly energetic, most of the time he doesn't bother) and passing them off as his own, well, no shit...

I wonder if we should have a separate topic where we can have a pure list of urls volt stole graphics from, iirc someone here found quite a few of the things, not sure if he wants to get too involved(and quite reasonably, too) in this particular shitstorm, though.

Do remember to laugh at the hilariously out of proportion head on this "donated" model that made it totally unsuitable to the point that it had to be replaced with something by first19, yes, we all completely believe this story.
my knees by my face and my ass is being hammered

danmal

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 06:27:20 am »
did i mention that Daemon (the supposed engine name) is a registered trademark according to at least 1 trademark database, in which Unvanquished (the supposed game name) also brings up conflicts?

Unless there's a game engine called daemon or a game called unvanquished then this isn't a problem. It's fine to use the same trademark for 2 projects as long as they're in different industries (eg ACE computers and ACE bandages).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 07:14:24 am by danmal »

Duplicator

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2012, 06:41:16 am »
Halo 3 Ranks:



TremZ Ranks:



Chat log of volt telling me he drew them by hand:

Code: [Select]
(01:35:05 AM) Sixthly: http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/1/11/Ranks-1-.jpg
(01:35:56 AM) Sixthly: Those Halo 3 ranks look awfully familiar
(01:36:36 AM) kharnov: yep.
(01:36:38 AM) Sixthly: I think they might have stolen volt's work and changed the colours
(01:37:14 AM) Sixthly: Does anyone have a link to the image volt made that has all of the ranks together?
(01:38:00 AM) volt: Some guy remade those for halo, I adapted them for the forums. There is no issue.
(01:38:24 AM) volt: If there are any legal issues please let me know, because I don't see them.
(01:38:34 AM) kharnov: you do realize they're used on the bungie forums right
(01:39:20 AM) volt: you do realize i redrew them from a deviant art image I found right? had I known there were higher quality versions I would have used those instead.
(01:39:31 AM) volt: Anyways when any legal issues are present with them I'll deal with them, so far I see none.
(01:39:40 AM) kharnov: i don't see how you redrew them
(01:39:49 AM) volt: kharnov:  I can send you the psd if you want.
...
Code: [Select]
(01:49:31 AM) Sixthly: You really did do a great job of redrawing them
(01:49:39 AM) kharnov: oh shit
(01:49:42 AM) volt: Sixthly:  you can do wonders with the pen tool in photoshop
(01:49:55 AM) volt: again you can direct your copyright claim to the original author at beorn@mac.com
(01:50:06 AM) volt: but I am within legal copyright laws.
(01:50:17 AM) Sixthly: Yeah because you redrew them by hand
(01:50:24 AM) Sixthly: and did a really great job!
(01:50:30 AM) kharnov: looks more like a filter applied to the original set of images
(01:50:34 AM) volt: I redrew them based on the image he has on his deviant art with the pen tool.



You mad about something bro?
Less trolling bro

Lava_Croft

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 10:08:30 am »
Don't you people have some other place to fight over who stole what milkshake?
Nothing ever happens.

GeneralScott

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 04:04:41 pm »
Guys you do know that Volt is probably the best HUD maker in the community, AND he started the Tremz project in the first place, AND he does tons of work on it.... If everyone trolls him you're basically killing TremZ (and therefor Tremulous itself.)

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 05:31:46 pm »
Guys you do know that Volt is probably the best HUD maker in the community, AND he started the Tremz project in the first place, AND he does tons of work on it.... If everyone trolls him you're basically killing TremZ (and therefor Tremulous itself.)
actually, he is trolling us (and therefore himself).

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 09:54:31 pm »
Guys you do know that Volt is probably the best HUD maker in the community, AND he started the Tremz project in the first place, AND he does tons of work on it.... If everyone trolls him you're basically killing TremZ (and therefor Tremulous itself.)
i give a shit who he is.  all ive seen from him is shitty photoshop and cut-n-paste, along with some sort of attitude like he is some sort of rockstar developer.

his recent actions have shown that he is not a good developer, not a good administrator, and should overall be kept far, far away from "power".

for all his talk about wanting a "game with a more commercial feel", he sure seems to be doing everything he can to make his work seem like the shitty first mod of a teenager.
Note 4: The best, although not always easiest, way to deal with trolls is thus: do not respond at ALL in the thread.
Main Rules
4.) No spamming or advertising (includes useless multi-posts and bumps.)
6b.) Do NOT harass other members.
  6c.) Do NOT troll!

CreatureofHell

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 10:19:20 pm »
Don't you people have some other place to fight over who stole what milkshake?

You, sir, deserve a turret!
{NoS}StalKer
Quote
<Timbo> posting on the trem forums rarely results in anything good

your face

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2012, 12:16:52 am »
Don't you people have some other place to fight over who stole what milkshake?

You, sir, deserve a turret!

It would be better if tremulous.net just died right

Oh yeah... probably.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 12:18:25 am by your face »
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2012, 12:39:00 am »
It would be better if tremulous.net just died right

Oh yeah... probably.
it would be better if your_face just died right oh yeah probably...

your face

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2012, 01:20:19 am »
Something like that.
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

Nux

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2012, 01:42:50 am »
It would be better if tremulous.net just died

The day it dies is the day it goes offline. Until then, I intend to continue posting here just like I intend to continue playing tremulous.

It's one of those good habits I've no problem with picking up every now and again.

Fuma

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2012, 05:59:44 am »
From what I can tell from the Tremz image, volt is telling the truth about using the pen tool.

Let me explain:

Volt used the pen tool set to a cyan like color and the opacity turned down + some other changes.
Then he proceeded to paint over the original image with a large brush size, creating a "blur" effect and changing the color of the image.

Because he just drew over the image with a different color and the opacity turned down, you can still see a hint of yellow in the areas of the image that originally had yellow. He could have avoided this by first desaturating the image, but whatever.

He also seems to have used the select by color tool to select the background and fill it with black.

However, even with these changes, volt cannot claim that he "redrew" the image.
To do that he needs to draw the entire thing from scratch without using anything directly from the original image.

Btw
A far faster and less n00b way of doing this would be to:
Select by color the background with a decent threshold -> Fill with black to get rid of background design-> Select None -> Desaturate image -> Duplicate layer -> Colorize -> Blur -> Change Layermode -> fiddle with opacity -> Save as JPEG

Example result that took me < 5min using GIMP:


And here is volt's image overlaid with the original image:

« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 07:08:37 am by Fuma »

KillerWhale

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2012, 07:49:38 am »
I was actually working on something just like this.

If you tweak the curves in all sorts of funky ways that you can't really show in still images, you'll find that all of the highlights, shadows, and bevels still exist in "volt's" version.

If volt had truly redrawn the images, for what reason would he have kept the bevels, highlights and shadows that were to be blown out by the glow effect anyway?

As well, as Fuma stated, there is also yellow tint left in the images from the original.

Fuma did, however, get something wrong. Volt clearly did not use the pen tool for this, as it would be near-impossible to match bezier curves in such an accurate manner.
It's more likely that he used color-select to get rid of the background, then used the "outer glow" and "color overlay" layer effects.
This process would take less than two minutes of done by a decent Photoshop user.

Another thing to note about the images is JPEG artifacting. That is a very high level of artifacting and is indicative of the image being edited and saved as a JPEG at least three times or so.
This doesn't gel with volt's claim that it was done in Illustrator, which would not have JPEG artifacting, as it is vector-based.

Tremulant

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2012, 11:15:46 am »
From what I can tell from the Tremz image, volt is telling the truth about using the pen tool.

Let me explain:
*snip*
I find it odd that your explanation in no way supports your first statement, whales' assessment is pretty much what i'd thought upon first seeing these two, traces of gold and perfect alignment of everything just looked like evidence of volt's obvious laziness to me, certainly not proof that he'd redrawn everything by hand.
my knees by my face and my ass is being hammered

KillerWhale

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2012, 05:17:40 pm »
I find it odd that your explanation in no way supports your first statement, whales' assessment is pretty much what i'd thought upon first seeing these two, traces of gold and perfect alignment of everything just looked like evidence of volt's obvious laziness to me, certainly not proof that he'd redrawn everything by hand.

I think Fuma mixed up the pen and brush tool.
As well, I'm pretty sure he's a GIMP user and doesn't have familiarity with layer effects.
The GIMP way to do this would be filling a layer with cyan, setting the blending mode to "color", turning down the transparency to keep it from being too intense. Alternatively, as I think Fuma was suggesting, you could use a large brush size with the brush set to "color blend" mode. Alpha to selection, fill again, but just in the images this time, gaussian blur for glow effect.

Nux

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2012, 05:27:49 pm »
So long as the 'mode' is set to something which replaces colour (e.g. Overlay/Screen/Colour/Hue/etc) it doesn't matter what tool you use. This means that he might very well have used the 'pen tool' but didn't actually draw with it: he just paints the entire area and it replaces the colours of wherever he paints.

By some stretch, he may have been technically truthful, but what does that matter when the statement is intended to mislead.

Sixthly

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2012, 09:31:26 am »
I have found more proof of volt lying. Not only did he lie to the development team, but he also lied to SuperB in order to gain a contract for a dedicated server.

Original design from DeviantArt:



Volt's design:



Log from IRC:

Code: [Select]
[1:48pm] volt: TheDushan:  want to hear funny story?
[1:49pm] TheDushan: sure :)
[1:49pm] volt: Do you know why superb made contract, the one reason they decided to allow deal to happen
[1:49pm] TheDushan: shoot
[1:50pm] Sixthly: TheDushan: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19689620/masterserver.zip has been updated. Make sure you execute sql/gameservers.sql before trying it.
[1:50pm] volt: I sent them this http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1382/forumsm.jpg
[1:50pm] volt: as potential design
[1:50pm] volt: They thought my designs were professional so it helped sell that we were a legit project.
[1:50pm] volt: They then liked how their logo was presented on forums.
[1:50pm] volt: and worked into design.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 09:32:57 am by Sixthly »
AussieAssault: Australian Tremulous.

hermxiv

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2012, 10:23:58 am »
I think that log, taken out of context, makes it sounds like he tricked them.

But if you read it a little differently, I think it was meant like this:

I sent them this design.

They thought it looked professional, which lead to the conclusion that this was a legitimate project. Because otherwise they might not have. A nice design really helped.

Also, the ad placement on our forums was very well done and helped too.

And the full design is only part that original image.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 10:43:31 am by hermxiv »

Khaoz

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2012, 12:02:57 pm »
If you get an egg, paint it blue, put some glitter on it and call it a potatoe it's still an egg.

Doesn't matter how much of the design was stolen, the design was still stolen.

 *Image Removed*

Qrntz

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2012, 04:52:56 pm »
I think that log, taken out of context, makes it sounds like he tricked them.

But if you read it a little differently, I think it was meant like this:

I sent them this design.

They thought it looked professional, which lead to the conclusion that this was a legitimate project. Because otherwise they might not have. A nice design really helped.

Also, the ad placement on our forums was very well done and helped too.

And the full design is only part that original image.
How is this different from `he tricked them'?

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

GeneralScott

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2012, 08:07:12 pm »
Sixthly, if you spent as much time working on Unvanquished as you do digging up Volt's skeletons in the closet you'd be done with Unvanquished already. Did you even check to see whether the DeviantArt guy let volt use it with permission?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 08:11:02 pm by GeneralScott »

Qrntz

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2012, 09:12:19 pm »
Sixthly, if you spent as much time working on Unvanquished as you do digging up Volt's skeletons in the closet you'd be done with Unvanquished already. Did you even check to see whether the DeviantArt guy let volt use it with permission?
GeneralScott, if you spent more time thinking, you'd have less to type.

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

GeneralScott

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Re: VOLT STEALING ART
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2012, 10:36:05 pm »
The only bad part about TremZ/Unvanquished is that it attracts assholes from 1.1 where in gpp we have a far fewer concentration of assholes per 10 players, compared to 1.1 where at least 8 out of ten people are douchebags. Such as the above. Case in point.