Wanna know why do humans camp?

[Dj_Pong]

Before you think; omfg another shit thread!? NO! Just read before you will..

I play Tremulous alot (some of you know that) and noticed something about the teams.

When Aliens and Humans are s1.

Aliens are overpowered when they have a dragoon that knows what he does.
Why you will ask, because of this reason; Dragoons can easely 1 hit KO a stage 1 human. So when humans discovered that a dragoon is ingame they will suddenly camp and when they are 100% sure they will attack again.

But! Humans that rush that can finish the game real hard if they want. If they do aliens will have a REAL hard time.

When Aliens and Humans are s2.
Aliens still are a BIT overpowered, not much but in the right hands..
Why? Dragoons only need to make 2 hits instead of one to kill a human (If aimed right) Humans without helmets will camp (again) and with helmets try to attack and most of the time they will fail because of the dretch spam (if server has alot of player slots)


When Aliens and Humans are s3.
This is the most unbalanced part, you peope EVER noticed that ONLY aliens attack? Always tyrants/Adv goons. and humans camp BECAUSE they cant defend themself against that HUGE attack power of the dragoons/tyrants (Even in battlesuit) only in groups they need to attack. But then again goons can wait for humans to leave base and snipe the spawns.

You will NEVER and with never i really mean NEVER see an entire alien defending thier own base. They just attack attacking humans when they are moving to humans base.

My conlusion:
-Everyone whines that tyrants are to strong (even the developers) They AINT, they are perfect and should NOT be edited.
Instead they should give humans at stage 2 a better armor, something like Heavy armor (With Battlesuit stats and no radar and not the possibility to use a jetpack)
-at stage 3 humans should have a Stronger bsuit that can "tank" 3/4 hits from a tyrant.

Feel free to flame or to discuss things that you DONT agree with (or with the things that you agree with) but give a GOOD REASON why you need to flame. I'm not going to respond with headless noobflame posts.

[benplaut]

From what i've seen, humans are much more powerful in S2 (grenades and pulse, mainly).  If humans are going to win, they do it in s2.  If aliens are going to win, they have to hold out until s3.  That's the balance, as far as i can see  

[Juno]

the game is balanced

teams may not be

[Survivor]

the game is balanced

teams may not be

Dead on, goons aren't invincible at s1. Ever since we got rid of the 'tyrants are overpowered' people the goon equivalent has popped up.

[Stof]

Goons aren't invincible at stage 1. No alien is invincible.

But a goon at stage 1 human in the hands of a very good player usually means the aliens will get lots of kills very very fast ( feeding ) The only solution in that case is for all the low to high skill humans to camp until the very high skill humans clean up the base exit.

[DASPRiD]

Goons are realy not overpowered. At S2, they die realy, realy fast. In S1, 1 realy good, 2 not so good or 3 middle good humans can take out a realy good goon.

By the way, not many aliens get goon after less than 1 minute

[Survivor]

Goons aren't invincible at stage 1. No alien is invincible.

But a goon at stage 1 human in the hands of a very good player usually means the aliens will get lots of kills very very fast ( feeding ) The only solution in that case is for all the low to high skill humans to camp until the very high skill humans clean up the base exit.

A dretch in the hands of a good player is equally if not more lethal. So they should camp from the get go by that logic. The solution is teamwork, put up a barrage for the fucking alien if you have that much trouble.

[rasz_pl]

you have some right, some you dont
humans camp because they are SCARED, scared of loosing all that precious credits. Thats why you see BS/Chain/lucy combos with 2 kills since 19 minutes sitting on a turret in the bas, they camped all those credits and those scary big  tyrrants will eat them in 3 slashes?? NO WAI.
Humans can win S3vsS3 if they stick together, or if one rambo kinda guy (/me:P) will jetpack to the vent on arachnid, go kill eggs and then om

but generally its s1=even, s2=humans HAVE TO ATTACK or troubles ahead, S3=aliens almost won

BTW: I really liked how you blocked armory with your own body against my tyrr in SD on ATCS today )

[Stof]

A dretch in the hands of a good player is equally if not more lethal. So they should camp from the get go by that logic.

No it isn't. A Dretch is lethal yes, but it dies in 1 poorly aimed shotgun blast ( 150 cr )

The solution is teamwork, put up a barrage for the fucking alien if you have that much trouble.

You're more or less saying that humans need good teamwork and numerical superiority to fight against a single goon. Not what I would call "balance".

Not that I complain too much. I don't have much difficulties killing goons at stage one. It's the other players that aren't as good and will usualy camp as a result.

[Glunnator]

[Enter Almighty post here]

And i do agree, It is a (almost) perfectly balanced game. Just that Pros tend to group into same team and unbalance the TEAMS, thats not got anything to do with the game, but the players.

[DASPRiD]

Btw, yesterday, I was tired and played human (I normaly always play alien). Well, like an alien, I played agressive, eat some dretches at beginning and in S2 I went down to alien base, cutted the eggs, then the OM, and after 2 minutes humans won.

So humans are realy not underpowered or something like that. If they would only play agressive, and maybe in a team, they could easily win most of the games. And if some aliens block you entry? Well, take 2 or 3 guys, get out there together and smash them. It is realy not impossible.

[Dj_Pong]

A dretch in the hands of a good player is equally if not more lethal. So they should camp from the get go by that logic. The solution is teamwork, put up a barrage for the fucking alien if you have that much trouble.

Not true. I didnt add the dretch because they are ok by me. Like someone posted earlier; 1 shotgun and dretch is down. A dragoon cant get killed by 1 shot. See the comparance?

but generally its s1=even, s2=humans HAVE TO ATTACK or troubles ahead, S3=aliens almost won

And what happens if humans attack when they are s2... They will feed aliens to s3 (if they dont attack propperly) and TADAA! Defending/camping is back in the game.

BTW: I really liked how you blocked armory with your own body against my tyrr in SD on ATCS today )

Slightly offtopic, but yes. I cant get chaingun bullets if my armoury is down. So risking my live for it is better then no armoury.

But a goon at stage 1 human in the hands of a very good player usually means the aliens will get lots of kills very very fast ( feeding ) The only solution in that case is for all the low to high skill humans to camp until the very high skill humans clean up the base exit.

camp See what I mean? Humans NEED to camp to gain kills. (not always in the begin they should RUSH like madness)

[SLAVE|Mietz]

henners where are thou?

[stahlsau]

So humans are realy not underpowered or something like that. If they would only play agressive, and maybe in a team, they could easily win most of the games.

ACK. Just as the aliens.

You're more or less saying that humans need good teamwork and numerical superiority to fight against a single goon. Not what I would call "balance".

That is exactly what the balance in this game is about. Noone is supposed to take out a tyrant alone, no matter which weapon or armor. If 2 even-skilled people battle, the tyrant will always win. Same for the goon in s1.

Not that I complain too much. I don't have much difficulties killing goons at stage one. It's the other players that aren't as good and will usualy camp as a result.

Actually i doubt that. A poor newbee goon maybe. Not the average one, no way.

[stahlsau]

ah, hi mietz btw. Still got your forum-uglyfying locationcode in your profile eh?

[Stof]

Actually i doubt that. A poor newbee goon maybe. Not the average one, no way.

Oh, really? All you need is good movement, light armor and a shotgun

And favorable terrain too.

[Glunnator]

Btw, yesterday, I was tired and played human (I normaly always play alien). Well, like an alien, I played agressive, eat some dretches at beginning and in S2 I went down to alien base, cutted the eggs, then the OM, and after 2 minutes humans won.

So humans are realy not underpowered or something like that. If they would only play agressive, and maybe in a team, they could easily win most of the games. And if some aliens block you entry? Well, take 2 or 3 guys, get out there together and smash them. It is realy not impossible.

This either identifies you as a good player or it means you played with nub aliens it dousn;t nessysalary means your tactic is a good one

BTW mietz, whos this henners you keep asking about?

[janev]

well i really think the game is nicely balanced now...

in public play the skilled players dominate and the skilled players are usually tired of standard style fps(human team) so they play aliens. So yes there is an unbalancing factor in that good players prefer aliens.

1 goon= 4 shotguns shots/2 rifle clips(i think)/1 second of painsaw/1.3seconds of flamer i don't see how that is unbalanced as the human gear has more range and you can group humans together without as much tk/td risk

-at stage 3 humans should have a Stronger bsuit that can "tank" 3/4 hits from a tyrant.

are you serious? what happens when the noobs start camping with those? the human gear when used right is more then enough to kill anything and everything the aliens can throw up against it. tyrant can stand 2 charged lucifer rounds as it is would it be fair for the best alien to take twice the hits to kills something with range

 :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

[SLAVE|Mietz]

ah, hi mietz btw. Still got your forum-uglyfying locationcode in your profile eh?

yep, if you want me to change it: hack my account

[Maltagearion]

So have you ever heard of the shotgun? Or are you too busy standing on top of turrets spamming lasgun?

[Glunnator]

well i really think the game is nicely balanced now...

in public play the skilled players dominate and the skilled players are usually tired of standard style fps(human team) so they play aliens. So yes there is an unbalancing factor in that good players prefer aliens.

1 goon= 4 shotguns shots/2 rifle clips(i think)/1 second of painsaw/1.3seconds of flamer i don't see how that is unbalanced as the human gear has more range and you can group humans together without as much tk/td risk

-at stage 3 humans should have a Stronger bsuit that can "tank" 3/4 hits from a tyrant.

are you serious? what happens when the noobs start camping with those? the human gear when used right is more then enough to kill anything and everything the aliens can throw up against it. tyrant can stand 2 charged lucifer rounds as it is would it be fair for the best alien to take twice the hits to kills something with range

 :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

 :eek: again!

This guys has some sense people!  Listen to him/her/it!
!!!
  :-?    

[whitebear]

You are talking crap. Humans can own on s1 easy.

Here is a guote what i wrote on UVache forums:

Human tips
Bored of camping but skill is not enough to go and kill all the aliens? Here is a tip to help in this small task.
Get your self Kamikaze Kit!
Buy stuff on this order (importancy order depending on stage and moey ammount):
1. Pain Saw (Optional flamer but may hurt u too)
2. Battle Suit (s3)
3. Light armour (s1&2)
4. Helmet (s2)
5. Grenade (s2&3)

Any tips for use of it use it?
To kill Drechses: Crouch and Stay still and Aim the drech...
To Kill Basilisk: Just make sure it does not get behind but if it does and grabs you then waste your nade.
To kill Mara: Whe mara trys head shot, duck and after claw sound get standing to hurt it.
To Kill goons: Hold fire and avoid pouncess
To kill tyrant: You never make it unless its uber n00b.
To kill bases: Throw nade near om or eggs. Run and saw/burn as many eggs you can. Use medpack to get little more protection from defences

[whitebear]

Humans can own on s1 easy.

Here is a guote what i wrote on UVache forums:

Human tips
Bored of camping but skill is not enough to go and kill all the aliens? Here is a tip to help in this small task.
Get your self Kamikaze Kit!
Buy stuff on this order (importancy order depending on stage and moey ammount):
1. Pain Saw (Optional flamer but may hurt u too)
2. Battle Suit (s3)
3. Light armour (s1&2)
4. Helmet (s2)
5. Grenade (s2&3)

Any tips for use of it use it?
To kill Drechses: Crouch and Stay still and Aim the drech...
To Kill Basilisk: Just make sure it does not get behind but if it does and grabs you then waste your nade.
To kill Mara: Whe mara trys head shot, duck and after claw sound get standing to hurt it.
To Kill goons: Hold fire and avoid pouncess
To kill tyrant: You never make it unless its uber n00b.
To kill bases: Throw nade near om or eggs. Run and saw/burn as many eggs you can. Use medpack to get little more protection from defences

[Glunnator]

Lol thanks for the tips whitebear! and you seem to have double posted!

[Dj_Pong]

-at stage 3 humans should have a Stronger bsuit that can "tank" 3/4 hits from a tyrant.

are you serious? what happens when the noobs start camping with those? the human gear when used right is more then enough to kill anything and everything the aliens can throw up against it. tyrant can stand 2 charged lucifer rounds as it is would it be fair for the best alien to take twice the hits to kills something with range

 :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

What happens if TYRANTS camp at thier base?!  :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Glunnator]

-at stage 3 humans should have a Stronger bsuit that can "tank" 3/4 hits from a tyrant.

are you serious? what happens when the noobs start camping with those? the human gear when used right is more then enough to kill anything and everything the aliens can throw up against it. tyrant can stand 2 charged lucifer rounds as it is would it be fair for the best alien to take twice the hits to kills something with range

 :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

What happens if TYRANTS camp at thier base?!  :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

That already happens!
lol ^^

[janev]

-at stage 3 humans should have a Stronger bsuit that can "tank" 3/4 hits from a tyrant.

are you serious? what happens when the noobs start camping with those? the human gear when used right is more then enough to kill anything and everything the aliens can throw up against it. tyrant can stand 2 charged lucifer rounds as it is would it be fair for the best alien to take twice the hits to kills something with range

 :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

What happens if TYRANTS camp at thier base?!  :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

well tyrants camping is a lot easier to kill then lucifer spam... example scenario: acts 4 tyrants in alien base vs 4 human lucy spammers with battlesuits, tyrants cant get out but the lucifer charged shots sure can get in (might need a forward repeater)

don't forget that humans have range:D and if you pump enough lead/plasma into alien base you will hit something. But yes it does create just as gay a situation as human battlesuit campers... A far bigger danger for human attacks is the distance from human main to alien main on the bigger maps. On transit a tyrant has time to attack you retreat and regen many times on the way to and from alien base.

[NoSpin]

your insane. The problem is, if anything, aliens are underpowered when attacking. They are a little weak attacking bases. Humans can camp too easily.

Humans are overpowered l2. They get a flame thrower, jet pack, and helmet. They are now immune to poison can survive head shots and pounce. Also they can fly and do great damage with the flame thrower (probably not going to use fling and flame together though).

What do aliens get? Adv baskalisk and poison upgrade. They do not get any higher levels of aliens, goon is still the most advanced. Dont get me wrong the adv bask and poison is cool. But they have the helmet making them immune to both. Any human wearing a helmet negates both of them entirely.

The problem is you do not know how to play as a human. Aliens can attack solo, they are born to attack. Humans cannot they must team up. A team of humans is very powerful. BTW if they have goons then you should have light armor making you immune to insta kill, don't be dumb.

Attacking an alien base is easy because you have ranged weapons. You can shoot them and they cannot shoot you. Occasionnaly you may need to run through their fire first and then use a med pack.

[Undeference]

When Aliens and Humans are s3.
This is the most unbalanced part, you peope EVER noticed that ONLY aliens attack? Always tyrants/Adv goons. and humans camp BECAUSE they cant defend themself against that HUGE attack power of the dragoons/tyrants (Even in battlesuit) only in groups they need to attack. But then again goons can wait for humans to leave base and snipe the spawns.

You will NEVER and with never i really mean NEVER see an entire alien defending thier own base. They just attack attacking humans when they are moving to humans base.

I recently played a stacked game against humans. The aliens managed to get stage 3 while humans were still stage 2 (I have no idea how), but due to inexperience they fed humans to stage 3. After realizing that just charging at the humans wouldn't work, the aliens began camping outside the human base (if I recall correctly, I was the only one actually attacking).

There were two reasons we lost. Because I was the only one attacking and because no one bothered defending the base.

So you are partially right and partially wrong. The people who are likely to camp at stage 1 will probably also camp at stage 2 and stage 3, but this is not a rule. Also, as I pointed out elsewhere, aliens tend to camp just as much as humans near the end of the game. You can't honestly tell me that you've never seen a group of tyrants and/or dragoons sitting outside the human base just waiting for humans to come out.

To kill tyrant: You never make it unless its uber n00b.

Wrong. Either the tyrant is not that good or was not that careful, the painsawer is really good, or the tyrant isn't very laggy but the painsawer is. The painsaw is the second most powerful weapon in the hands of laggers. Second only to the chaingun (which seems to do damage a lot faster when used by an appropriately laggy player).

[Ranger]

What do aliens get? Adv baskalisk and poison upgrade. They do not get any higher levels of aliens, goon is still the most advanced. Dont get me wrong the adv bask and poison is cool. But they have the helmet making them immune to both. Any human wearing a helmet negates both of them entirely.

Not to pick, but you're forgetting the adv mara.