The Spread Of Aimbots.

[temple]

Cant feeding be the natural result of going up against aimbots? If that is the case, than you are loosing because of aimbots mowing down your team. Or at least it is a contributing factor.

Feeding is done by the opponents.  You can't shoot something unless its running straight at you.

You sir, clearly don't know aimbots. If you did, you'd understand his point.

*Game starts*

*Moron turns his cool new aimbot on*

*Moron holds left mouse button down*

*Moron kills everything that comes in sight*

temple: FEEDRRS!

That's not what I'm talking about.

[Nux]

Then why was it in response to that post? You quoted it =/

Either way, I don't lose because someone is mowing down my team. I've lost a lot lately because the standard stupid shit (teammates feeding, not bulding, etc).

Cant feeding be the natural result of going up against aimbots?  If that is the case, than you are loosing because of aimbots mowing down your team.  Or at least it is a contributing factor.

Feeding is done by the opponents.  You can't shoot something unless its running straight at you.  The human team isn't getting more kills than usual and the top scorers are the same players that always did well.  Its a lot of new people that are crapping up games.

jigidyjensen1's point was that you might think you're not losing because of one guy using an aimbot, but it might just be that one guy who's causing the 'feeding' you say is the reason for your loss.

You can't shoot something unless it's running straight at you? Yes you can. Especially if you have an aimbot.

[Plague Bringer]

Aimbots hit EVERY enemy player in visual range. Aimbotters who can dodge ALWAYS lead in kills, atleast on unlagged, so long as they're botting.

[temple]

Cock up before conspiracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_Razor

Whereas on a server without Unlagged, feeding dretches just run straight into turrets.  With Unlagged, the noob humans are able to shoot the noob dretches first.  

I'm on the watch for aimbotters but no one is (with the exception of a few) is logging on D*S and racking up a shitload of kills out the blue.  In fact, an aimbotter wouldn't last a full match before kicked if they actually exploited the aimbot to its potential.  

Like I said before, if an aimbotter isn't exploiting the bot to the max...well fuck it anyway.

[Raytray]

I guess I should mention that the painsaw aimbot I saw yesterday morning (mentioned earlier in the thread) was actually on D*S Painsaw.

In all honesty, does it really not seem obvious that it would happen that way? The majority of North American noob players (no offense to the actual players on D*S servers) gravitate towards super-large servers like D*S (or S11). These guys are, of course, going to be the most likely to go grab Null's (obvious) aimbot. There was already enough "zomg aimbot" hysteria on those servers before aimbots were widely available (I got kicked twice for aimbotting, and I'm not exactly the greatest player ever), and now it's getting ridiculous.

There are only two ways to eliminate the worries about Null's aimbot for the time being, and they are: 1.) make your server require the backport client to be played on, and 2.) educate your administrators on what an aimbot looks like, both from spectator view and when you're fighting against/working beside it.

A little story regarding the latter. I brought up the spread of Null's aimbot at my weekly LAN party, and then we decided to have some fun with it by having a 5 on 5 aimbot battle. After a couple of hours watching those aimbots at work, it becomes fairly easy to see when they're being used without even having to spectate the guy (though you probably want to, so you can both be 100% sure and grab a demo). I suggest that you try something like this sometime if you can get the chance. You have to know your enemy to fight it, amirite?

Take all that for what you will.

Do you have a demo of that? It would be quite enjoyable to watch.

As for aimbots, on D*S there are currently about 20 or so bans. about 17 or so are permanent or close to it. About 15 or so of those are for aimbots. So yes, they do exist, but most of them are the same person. Sort of the same situation with deconners.

[Plague Bringer]

Admins (not the server owners) are, always have been, and most likely always will be, the most retarted idiots out there when to comes to banning the right people. There is no amount of education that'll get those fucktards to ban the right people, the only exception to that is the admins on SST| an,d from what I hear, D*S.

[Nux]

Many admins are just normal people. Normal people aren't always the most understanding kind of people. You for example are a normal person who has a rather harsh prejudice against admins.

[Seffylight]

Do you have a demo of that? It would be quite enjoyable to watch.

Sorry. We were just dicking around at the time, so none of us demo'd it.

If I ever do something like that again, though, I'll grab a demo just for you Ray.

[Foobicam]

I think that wider distribution of tjw's backport with guid built in would help.

Not so that we can track griefers, but so that we have a whitelist of known good players.

A good blacklist will never be as effective as a good whitelist. Indeed, by its very definition, a blacklist allows everyone (except blah blah and blah).

This, combined with competant admins can easily reduce the problem to a managable level. If aimbotters are forced to add in measures to the aimbot, such as slower movement, less than 100% accuracy, etc, in order to avoid suspicion, then they are reducing the effectiveness of the aimbot.

Back to my main point, I think a good step for this would be to distribute the backport on the main website, for example saying that the stock 1.1 version has been deprecated etc etc, or even just a brief blurb and a link. The client on the official site is hopelessly out of date.

At one point a few months ago D*S required backport - the server would reject any player without a GUID.  IIRC that experiment didn't last long, but it did force everyone on at the time to at least download tjw.

+1 on deprecating the stock client and putting up tjw as the default client in trem.net's Files area.  Of course requiring GUIDs would have no effect on <the bot that shall not be named> since the tjw version of the bot is available on http://*mumble* and http://*ahem*cough*.    GUIDs are good for admin-ing even if they are no longer useful as a bot-free flag.

And your point on whitelists bears repeating - blacklists are worthless as long as new identities are free.  If Trem were as popular as WoW, we'd have to worry about a cottage industry of people building up good karma GUIDs and selling them to h4x0rz for real money.  But for now, karma (from which whitelists or privilege levels would be derived) + GUID authentication is the most promising approach to dealing with grieftrash.

[Eeeew Spiders]

Whereas on a server without Unlagged, feeding dretches just run straight into turrets.  With Unlagged, the noob humans are able to shoot the noob dretches first.

I am really puzzled by this statement. First you stated that Unlagged is not to help noobs. 2nd, if a guy can't aim, a guy can't aim with or without Unlagged.
A dum dretch is a dum dretch regardless of Unlagged. However if you exchange Unlagged with Aimbot in that last sentence, it makes perfect sense.

I'm on the watch for aimbotters but no one is (with the exception of a few) is logging on D*S and racking up a shitload of kills out the blue. In fact, an aimbotter wouldn't last a full match before kicked if they actually exploited the aimbot to its potential.

This is what people refer to when they say that the only good solution to aimbot is a well managed server.

[DHRUVINATOR]

Dretches running straight dont get killed only that way... aimbotters can kill dretches going side 2 side, wallwalking..

[switchcode]

Couldnt you autokick anybody wih a hit ratio of say 95% or over?
It could only kick in after a minimum of like 10 shots, cos it wouldnt be so rare to hit every time out of such a low number of shots fired, but Id challenge anyone to score over 95% shots on target without assistance..

[Patriotpie]

if you're botting on a server this is implemented on, just shoot the wall.

[Rabbitt]

Couldnt you autokick anybody wih a hit ratio of say 95% or over?
It could only kick in after a minimum of like 10 shots, cos it wouldnt be so rare to hit every time out of such a low number of shots fired, but Id challenge anyone to score over 95% shots on target without assistance..

10 Shots ? I know plenty of people myself included that can it more then 10 shots dead on depending on what your shooting at

[doomagent13]

Join in sd, spawn rifle, leave base and find a rant.

[kevlarman]

Join in sd, spawn rifle, leave base and find a rant.

not even that, i know at least one person that hits 90% of his shots in the entire game (it would be well over 95% if someone /shares him 350 for md)

[Sentinel]

KnuckleS

http://uploaded.to/?id=xt3zgd

[mooseberry]

OmG MINor NECROZ!

[Sentinel]

Aron

demo

[d0t]

I don't see at demo with Aron any shadow of aimbot. I know him and I know what he is able to do, and that was pure skills ( shooting, dodging ).

If you want compare - see how aimbot is acting like - download this demo. You can simply see at this demo that aimbotter's aiming is amazing accurate, and is pointing only one place at humans body.
In Aron case you can't say that is the same he wasn't shooting at the same point at goon's body.

Btw... Why didn't you record demo longer ? He abandoned Humans and joined aliens, you could record more. I think you knew that he is not aimboting and you just wanted to compromise him... huh ?
_______________

Demo with KnuckleS is too laged to say that he is aimbotting... make better one with his gameplay. And the same as above... Why the hell are you recording so short demos ?

That is what i think...
d0t.

[Sentinel]

I feel bad about it, but is impossible kill dragoon with one magazine of rifle without aimbot. And second, whole fight he have aimed exact in centre of dragoon without missed. Sorry but i know what i see. I respect clan d0t, you have pro players and i don't need compromise other players. I want only protect players who played fair with only skills, without cheats. Demo is so short, because, when i switched to spectators he turn off aimbot. I mus wait when he again turn on. He turning aimbot occasionally, not all game. I have no problem fight with him, when he is so good. Because i mean, he is beginner, or, another player play by its nick. Thats all, and Knuckles is unmistakable aimbot.

Nice day

[FooBar]

Wow, the lack of clue here is amazing.

Okay, first of all, Sentinel, NEITHER of your demos show aimbotting.

Second of all, d0t, your demo doesn't show aimbotting either.

Third, Sentinel, if you do some simple math you'll learn the following:

• 1 rifle bullet = 5 hp
• Rifle magazine = 30 bullets
• Max damage from one magazine = 5 * 30 = 150 hp
• Dragoon health = 200
• 200 > 150

Therefore, it's completely impossible to kill a goon with one rifle magazine no matter how good you aim.  The goon was already below 100 hp to start with, hence, easy kill.

Let's take these in order.  I was going to offer some long complicated analyses, but instead I'll do short biting sarcastic comments:

• KnuckleS : (from Sentinel) Several times, he literally RAN INTO dretches before he even noticed they were there.  His aim was all over the place.  Lasgun + jerky aim do not equal aimbot. Get a clue. Next!
• Aron : (from Sentinel) Sure, he consistently aimed at the goon.  Goons are big.  Easy to hit.  Up close, even easier.  What's important is, within the goon, his aim was variable, not fixed rigidly on one spot.  Not an aimbot. Next!
• Crusaider : (from d0t) This player sucks.  More importantly, his AIM sucks.  He had maybe 2 or 3 headshots during the first 10 minutes, and I think only 1 or 2 kills.  His aim did not ever rigidly lock on the closest enemy, he often mis-aimed, his aim often "hunted" even while focused on one target.  Once again, jerky mouse technique does NOT equal aimbot. Get a clue.  Next!

Someone post a demo of a real aimbot so these guys can learn to tell the difference.

[Sentinel]

OK, then post you example, because i am not idiot. When this demos are not aimbots, then i totally noob and i should leave this game, where some one cheats and that is all right.

[Shadowgandor]

If you suspect someone is aimbotting, try tking him a few times and see how he fares against you. I've met 2 aimbots once, in our Z|R server.
I made sure one joined aliens, so that i could join the humans and kill him of a few times. After he noticed that i wasn't being nice towards him, he fired back. I think that if you randomly move your mouse, the hit-ratio would've been better lol.

[Caveman]

This thread is so typical of Boons that get pissed off because they can't hit shit.

[d0t]

• Crusaider : (from d0t) This player sucks.  More importantly, his AIM sucks.  He had maybe 2 or 3 headshots during the first 10 minutes, and I think only 1 or 2 kills.  His aim did not ever rigidly lock on the closest enemy, he often mis-aimed, his aim often "hunted" even while focused on one target.  Once again, jerky mouse technique does NOT equal aimbot. Get a clue.  Next!

Someone post a demo of a real aimbot so these guys can learn to tell the difference.

Well... If you still don't see aimbotting in Crusaider gameplay check this demo of his gameplay.

If you want few more demos with aimbotters please visit this site with 6 aimbotters I've caught some time ago. Aimbotters from those demos are:

• 1st - Unnamed Play
  
• 2nd - Unnamed Play
  
• 3rd - {TNM}IcecoldkillaH
  
• 4th - Creative
  
• 5th - Queen of Noobia
  
• 6th - (SHE)Kainii2
  

If you still won't see any aimbotting there...Someone post a demo of a real aimbot for FooBar so he can learn to tell the difference. (  :evil: )

[PwNz!]

hard-disk or motherboard ID is harder.
work it into a public key system, and were going good.
Of course, being OSS it will get avoided, but it will slow the shit bags down.

it won't slow them down. the solution is to give out signed qkey's for a small donation ($5 or something), and allow servers the option to only accept guids signed by timbo. (timbo had a similar idea, except with a central server and accounts replacing the digital signatures)

timbo is wise

Dont turn this into wow, cause thats just like making it so u have to pay for trem. :/

[FooBar]

Hmm... second demo of crusaider is a mixed bag.  He's obviously aimbotting right at the very end, but only for a couple of seconds. Prior to that, no.  Fighting the goon, his aim is all over the place. Fighting the mara, same.  Only the mara at the end is it obvious.  His aimbot sucks, by the way: it targets his teammates as well!  That's how I was able to see it.

1st - Sure, it's an aimbot, he even admits it.
2nd - Same player.  Obvious, classic aimbot.
3rd - Yup, nice aimbot.
4th - Totally an aimbot, classic.
5th - Yup, aimbot.  Harder to tell at first because that player sucks so much.
6th - Yes, aimbot.  Not very clear until the end.  Used it very intermittently.  Sometimes completely failed to hit anything.

Okay, I apologize.  I re-watched the first Crusaider movie, and now I can see it. The reason I missed it before is, he's such a sucky player that even WITH the aimbot he can't get kills.    Plus, he turns it on and off all the time.

I still don't see it in the Aron demo, although he has pretty good aim.

The Knuckles demo is weird.  Re-watching it, it's not a classic aimbot at all.  No "lock-on" effect.  He's aiming all over the place.  And yet... he gets kills.  He never seems to be aiming at dretches, but he hits them anyway.  Does anyone else see that, or is it just me?  I guess this could be an aimbot, but it's missing most of the classic signs.

[Nux]

I was the one recording those crusaider demos. It's not just at the end that it's noticable. You can see him near the start having trouble keeping it from aiming at teammates. Plus, at times his aim follows the enemies as they go behind walls.

The Knuckles demo is weird.  Re-watching it, it's not a classic aimbot at all.  No "lock-on" effect.  He's aiming all over the place.  And yet... he gets kills.  He never seems to be aiming at dretches, but he hits them anyway.  Does anyone else see that, or is it just me?  I guess this could be an aimbot, but it's missing most of the classic signs.

That sounds like unlagged at work to me. On his screen it probably made a whole lot more sense.

[benmachine]

The Knuckles demo is characteristic of the kind of 'double lag' you get when one player specs another, an effect made more obvious by unlagged. It makes it much more difficult to determine whether or not he was actually botting but I have to say it looks pretty likely sometimes.