[Concept] Side-arms

[techhead]

For February's Mod of the Month, I present to you:

Side-arms
Blaster Alternatives

Most of the time the blaster is just eating space in the inventory. A lot of ideas have been proposed lately to enhance the cooperative aspects of the human team. While the primary weapon cannot be replaced or augmented, why not allow players to use the armory replace the blaster?

Some possible sidearms:

• Healgun -- Use on teammates or yourself to slowly restore health
• Repair Kit -- A mini-construction kit that can only repair structures
• Grappling Hook -- Grab onto map objects and pul yourself in. Limited Ammo
• Laser Pistol -- A hit-scan blaster. Limited Ammo
• Energy Knife -- A weaker, stabbier Painsaw
• Pulse gun -- Push nearby players around, or shoot at floor to boost self
• Other -- I will add your idea if it I deem it suitable

All of these are possible concepts, presented to you as pliable, moldable, modifiable clay scupltures.
This concept has been respectfully stolen/borrowed from my friends at MGDev.

[player1]

Two things:

1) I like it (ofc)

2) in b4 "What do Aliens get?"

more 2 follow... (ofc)

P.S. Whew! The month is nearly over. I though you forgot!

2a) in b4 "Flashlight for shotgun!" (no j/k)

2b) in b4 "NRG/Chainsaw Bayonet for Rifle"

2c) in b4 "Nade Launcher for Rifle"

[Atom Eve]

I really like this idea. It adds even more variety to the human team, which is really the human team's big thing. I think it'd make a fun mod at the very least, and (with a lot of playtesting and maybe -- maybe some counter-balancing) it could make a viable addition to the main game.

[player1]

Two possibilities (stuff that I've seen done in the past):

1) Beacon Gun/Targeting Laser - Place waypoint beacon for team to find location (possibly has HP or deleterious effect on Aliens - very mild radioactivity maybe?); also direct/concentrate heavy weapons (luci, flamer, chaingun?) fire with targeting laser (secondary fire or becomes targeting laser after single beacon deployed?)

2) Teleport Gun - Place teleport beacon, when fired again, teleports player back to teleport beacon

[techhead]

Replies, in no particular order:

1. Teleport gun has the potential abuse of a chainsuit fighting its way towards the OM, using the beacon, and then going back to base and buying a painsaw. Fun in Unreal, but doesn't fit here.

2. Counter-balancing is absent here, unfortunately.

3. "Defense control laser" is absent here, as it would be:
A -- Camper's dream weapon, and we all know camping already.
B -- Multiple people with them might conflict, making feuds with turrets pointing back and forth between to points uselessly.
C -- Not really elegant way of doing things, IMHO, let the defenses do their job.

[your face]

i like the idea of a .... OO


KNIFE! 

[Geni3]

"Everybody knows you run faster with a knife"

[Paradox]

Only if aliens get something too.

[Odin]

In before Lava_Croft:

A bullet-firing hitscan ammo-based pistol.

[mooseberry]

How about hl2 style revolver. 

[player1]

@techhead:

Yeah, I'm just going through the list of stuff I've seen done, trying to help you eliminate the possibilities.

Teleport Beacon would definitely be too advantageous for Humans (maybe you could limit it to builders only; i.e. you gotta have a ckit to carry it? but then what stops you from selling the ckit and buying a bsuit & luci? yeah, OK, so much for that); I figured as much. How about the kind where you just switch places with your victim?

The Targeting Laser wouldn't be to direct defenses like turrets & teslas. Hell, the aiming code does that better than a player can (or people wouldn't use aimbots). I was thinking more of how it was used in Tribes (there it aided in Mortar firing): it would cut down on the scattered nature of offensive fire weapons which aren't very concentrated, like lucis, flamers, and chainguns. Offensive tool, not defensive tool. If I'm pointing it at an enemy structure, and you fire at it with a luci, flamer or chaingun, your accuracy is less penalized than it normally would be. More of your shots (or more of the damage anyway) would hit the target (or at least be less scattered). So instead of having to crouch with a chaingun, you could have a buddy "spot" the target for you. Would only work for certain high-ticket, scattergun-type offensive weapons, and only against enemy structures. If you actually target one, your team's offensive fire that is aimed there would be less scattered (again, just lucis, flamers and chainguns, not everything, and only a slight improvement, bullets wouldn't go around corners or anything). Again, probably just a :hrm: idea, but I wanted to clarify that it's not for defense/camping.

Fun thread, dude.

Cheers!

P.S. A couple-few other possible choices: Sawglove (limited reach), Gauntlet (melee attack), Magic Daikatana/Halo Sword (yeah, I know), Deus ex/Half-Life club/truncheon/pipewrench/crowbar/2X4/pipe/blunt force trauma instrument of choice, Shocklance/Zapper/Freezer/Immobilizer (limited range/power/ammo/duration), Crossbow, Bladethrower, Sai/Star/Nunchuks/Staff, Broadsword/Battleaxe/Mace/Flail, Bolo/Sling, 3-pack of Mini-nades (1/3 damage), 5-pack of Mini-Prox-Mines/Sticky Nades (1/5 damage), etc. I also agree with Odin: how about a nice Space Marine pistol?

P.P.S. What would you call the mod? Better Blasters, Incorporated? Side-arms Mod? Btw, I like all of the ones you originally suggested.

[Taiyo.uk]

How about making the blaster exchangeable for another side-arm (at cost) at S2 or 3. A low power meelee weapon and the healgun seem like good candidates. The repair-only ckit will probably encourage camping and a hitscan sidearm will probably be too powerful. How this will affect the balance will need some experimentation to establish.

[==Troy==]

For February's Mod of the Month, I present to you:

Side-arms
Blaster Alternatives

Most of the time the blaster is just eating space in the inventory. A lot of ideas have been proposed lately to enhance the cooperative aspects of the human team. While the primary weapon cannot be replaced or augmented, why not allow players to use the armory replace the blaster?

Some possible sidearms:

• Healgun -- Use on teammates or yourself to slowly restore health
• Repair Kit -- A mini-construction kit that can only repair structures
• Grappling Hook -- Grab onto map objects and pul yourself in. Limited Ammo
• Laser Pistol -- A hit-scan blaster. Limited Ammo
• Energy Knife -- A weaker, stabbier Painsaw
• Pulse gun -- Push nearby players around, or shoot at floor to boost self
• Other -- I will add your idea if it I deem it suitable

All of these are possible concepts, presented to you as pliable, moldable, modifiable clay scupltures.
This concept has been respectfully stolen/borrowed from my friends at MGDev.

About 80% of this will require modelling, and only 10% is an actual coding.
Besides grappling hook, everything is doable, and quite easy.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

i'd only recommend a small melee stuff wich can push 999 dudes and campers outta my way without wasting ammo kthnxbai :-D

[whitebear]

About 80% of this will require modelling, and only 10% is an actual coding.
Besides grappling hook, everything is doable, and quite easy.

And most of the code can be copy pasted from random q3 modding tutorial.

Side arm would be used too rarely to be worth of the modeler's time.

[doomagent13]

Grappling hook shouldnt be too hard, actually.  Several other q3 based games have one = copy & paste = done!

[+ OPTIMUS +]

Grappling hook shouldnt be too hard, actually.  Several other q3 based games have one = copy & paste = done!

yup, it's simple, back, back + low punch "getoverheeere". hold block and push the joy updownupdownupdown, and then you got the fatality.

seriously on the topic:
i wish that our standard blaster sidearm wouldn't be a usual switch of the weapon when the primary stuff disappears in the back of the model. it's fun to blast trough the map and take the lucicannon only for jumps and near om, but i beleive that at 2008 a game should be a little more realistic than that. just to see the primary weapon of the vielder, even it's a ckit. it can be on the model's back, or hummies could use the blaster with left hand while the other is in the right hand, but this solution now is... poor.

[Thisguy]

you could just add more weapons that are only available when you sell your pistol (make pistolsellable no money 4 it tho) and all weapon compatable with nomal guns.

for aliens abilities like speed, atk up ect...

allin all it would make games a little more interesting.

[Paradox]

If you add anything, make it a grappling hook.

Thats the only thing that could be remotely balanced.

[n.o.s.brain]

how about the booster acts as an armoury at s2, alowing aliens to "buy" upgrades, like speed, poison, bile-dretch-like bomb, improved attack, improved armour, etc...

[benmachine]

3. "Defense control laser" is absent here, as it would be:
A -- Camper's dream weapon, and we all know camping already.
B -- Multiple people with them might conflict, making feuds with turrets pointing back and forth between to points uselessly.
C -- Not really elegant way of doing things, IMHO, let the defenses do their job.

A -- if the turret's turn speed is still capped then you can't improve on the aim of turrets. It is therefore exclusively for turning them around, probably while the base is empty
B -- part of the fun >:)
C -- bleh.

[thirdstreettito]

I like the idea. Anything I can do to help?

[techhead]

The laser-pistol is identical to the blaster in all but three respects:
1. It's hit-scan
2. It uses ammo and can run out of it
3. It costs money, money you had to earn.
Is this not balanced? Would you pay money as a ckit to be able to fend off a couple dretch easier while building and maintaining your forward base? Or for more reassurance when doing painsaw rush? You could make it even shoot slower, if it's that bad a concern. Not to mention, buying it would also lock you out of one of our other attractive options.

Pulse-gun was an idea that came to me kinda as: "Gravity hammer without damage" For those that don't know, the Gravity hammer is a big melee weapon that when smashed, it pushes people, map scenery, and even vehicles away from itself. My idea, abliet simpler was that of a instant (or near instant) hit weapon with knockback, limited range, 0 damage, and splash.

Energy knife would be pretty similar to Granger slash, a close range weapon of last resort, as supposed to a ranged weapon of last resort, the blaster. That, and people have been asking for some sort of combat knife for ages.

The repair-kit was there for people to both defend and repair bases without selling their weapon, wether it be a main base in Sudden Death, or a forward base that lacks an armory.

If whoever codes this idea sticks in a defense control laser, I won't complain at all. It just seemed a little useless for anything except pointing turrets around and prioritizing targets, unless targets marked with a laser could be outside the turret's maximum range.

[whitebear]

Many of those are neat ideas if we had side arm available while holding the primary weapon. Meaning that you can press <bound button here> to blast dretch off circling the turret while waiting the ckit timer to reach zero.
The energy knife would be nice but more bigger and dagger like weapon that can fend off the goon while charging my luci.
Possibly as choice to grab two side arms instead of primary weapon to dual wield them.

But I still claim that no modeler is going to bother with this. And to all those who keep asking "what for aliens/humans then?". Don't keep suggesting counter balancing ideas. This gives less chance for the idea to ever become alive.

[Revan]

Many of those are neat ideas if we had side arm available while holding the primary weapon. Meaning that you can press <bound button here> to blast dretch off circling the turret while waiting the ckit timer to reach zero.
The energy knife would be nice but more bigger and dagger like weapon that can fend off the goon while charging my luci.
Possibly as choice to grab two side arms instead of primary weapon to dual wield them.

But I still claim that no modeler is going to bother with this. And to all those who keep asking "what for aliens/humans then?". Don't keep suggesting counter balancing ideas. This gives less chance for the idea to ever become alive.

or the laser could have unlimited ammo but overheat?

bah! Just give my lightsaber and force powers and ill be happy

[whitebear]

Aren't light sabers built by the user.
Also the force powers in online games has one true name. Packet editor.

[techhead]

Whitebear, dual-wielding weapons is not there for the exact reasons you listed. If you want secondary, swap to secondary. If you want primary, swap to primary.

And I plan on posting an Alien-themed mod-of-the-month within a week from toady, probably today or tomorrow. This concept is posted as a Human thing, the other will be an alien. Having both in the same thread would get in the way of discussion of either, as there would be two unrelated conversations going on simultaneously.

[player1]

The targeting laser is not for defensive use!!! 

Srsly, it's for offensive use. Please read the above replies...

Cheers!

[Shadowgandor]

A small shield which you can use to protect yourself from alien attacks. I don't know, 50% of the original damage or something?
Don't think of the halo shield or anything, but really a shield that's hold up with your hands. Mostly usable if you ran out of ammo, but no offensive use.

[whitebear]

It needs a battery and walking backwards should slow you down.