[Concept] Side-arms

[blood2.0]

aliens already have unlimited ammo and giving humans side arms wont effect the game play too much. 

[player1]

The targeting laser is not for defensive use!!! 

Srsly, it's for offensive use. Please read the above reply...

Cheers!

A bullet-firing hitscan ammo-based pistol.

@OP: Please respond...

A small shield which you can use to protect yourself from alien attacks. I don't know, 50% of the original damage or something?
Don't think of the halo shield or anything, but really a shield that's hold up with your hands. Mostly usable if you ran out of ammo, but no offensive use.

It needs a battery and walking backwards should slow you down.

I think the fact that you can't wield any other weapon at the same time and that it only reduces damage by 50% is nerfed enough, but those are both good suggestions if indeed it does prove too strong.

So - ahem - did this thread die, or are the targeting laser and shield the final two choices?

P.S. I think these sidearms should cost the user about 175 creds (equals 1 evo I believe), although I guess the argument could be made that if you turn in your blaster you can choose one of these from some sort of separate sidearm menu at the Armoury. Or maybe it could be a "spawn as" option (as in a separate, second submenu). Spawn as Rifle/Ckit. Sidearm choice: Hgun/Rkit/Ghook/Lpistol/Eknife/Pgun/Tlaser/Shield. You could, say, spawn as a Rifle with an Rkit, or a Ckit with a Lpistol. Even if you make them cost 175 creds, you could deduct that amount from the player's assets upon spawning (if he doesn't have enough he gets a message/warning/alarm and a blaster, or he doesn't get access to the submenu).

Edit'd 'cuz I really like this Concept more than all of the other recently proposed ones, and I would "vote" for this and the sister Concept in any Mod of the Month contest between now and the end of time.

[techhead]

The targeting laser is not for defensive use!!! 

Srsly, it's for offensive use. Please read the above reply...

Cheers!

I'm not getting this...

A bullet-firing hitscan ammo-based pistol.

You mean like my laser-pistol? I think mine sounds cooler, and of my sidearms that need ammo, no others many are energy weapons.

A small shield which you can use to protect yourself from alien attacks. I don't know, 50% of the original damage or something?
Don't think of the halo shield or anything, but really a shield that's hold up with your hands. Mostly usable if you ran out of ammo, but no offensive use.

It needs a battery and walking backwards should slow you down.

Granted, don't know about how the shield should work with respect to balance, so I didn't include it.

P.S. I think these sidearms should cost the user about 175 creds (equals 1 evo I believe), although I guess the argument could be made that if you turn in your blaster you can choose one of these from some sort of separate sidearm menu at the Armoury. Or maybe it could be a "spawn as" option (as in a separate, second submenu). Spawn as Rifle/Ckit. Sidearm choice: Hgun/Rkit/Ghook/Lpistol/Eknife/Pgun/Tlaser/Shield. You could, say, spawn as a Rifle with an Rkit, or a Ckit with a Lpistol. Even if you make them cost 175 creds, you could deduct that amount from the player's assets upon spawning (if he doesn't have enough he gets a message/warning/alarm and a blaster, or he doesn't get access to the submenu).

I really think a redesign of the armory menu would be more elegant, just look at games like Urban Terror and even *gasp* Wolfentsien: ET.

[player1]

targeting laser

offensive use

I'm not getting this...

You point the Targeting Laser at an enemy structure. If anyone is firing a chaingun, flamethrower or lucifer cannon at it, instead of the usual aim penalties these weapons suffer from, more of their scattered fire or splash damage gets concentrated on the target. You don't point it at enemy players, it does not control the aim of your own defensive structures, and because of interference, you can't use it near reactor or repeater power. It's sole purpose is against enemy structures, in the enemy base. I'm talking about an offensive anti-structure Targeting Laser like they had in Tribes, not a Defense Control Laser like was proposed on the MGDEV site (sorry, I never followed the link to see that we were talking about two different things ). I do NOT want to control the Human team's defensive structures. I want to coordinate and concentrate offensive heavy weapons fire (player-wielded and -aimed chainguns, flamers or lucis) against enemy structures. I'm not talking about the Benmachine/Risujin idea. I'm talking about the way they did it in Tribes. It's a cool idea, check it out.

A bullet-firing hitscan ammo-based pistol.

You mean like my laser-pistol? I think mine sounds cooler, and of my sidearms that need ammo, no others many are energy weapons.

I played Deus Ex all the way through by putting all of my experience points, implants and weapon mods on/towards/in furtherance of the pistol before any other weapon or ability. Me likee Space marine standard issue bullet pistol. Laser pistol is cool, too, no doubt.

A small shield which you can use to protect yourself from alien attacks. I don't know, 50% of the original damage or something?
Don't think of the halo shield or anything, but really a shield that's hold up with your hands. Mostly usable if you ran out of ammo, but no offensive use.

It needs a battery and walking backwards should slow you down.

Granted, don't know about how the shield should work with respect to balance, so I didn't include it.

As I said, I think the fact that it's the only thing you can "wield" (your "gunhand" being occupied with it) and that it only takes about 50% damage makes this "sidearm" pretty weak (you can't hurt anybody or anything, unless you bring along a nade, and you still are taking half-damage). A good fallback on a base-rape run, but otherwise no major advantage.

P.S. I think these sidearms should cost the user about 175 creds (equals 1 evo I believe), although I guess the argument could be made that if you turn in your blaster you can choose one of these from some sort of separate sidearm menu at the Armoury. Or maybe it could be a "spawn as" option (as in a separate, second submenu). Spawn as Rifle/Ckit. Sidearm choice: Hgun/Rkit/Ghook/Lpistol/Eknife/Pgun/Tlaser/Shield. You could, say, spawn as a Rifle with an Rkit, or a Ckit with a Lpistol. Even if you make them cost 175 creds, you could deduct that amount from the player's assets upon spawning (if he doesn't have enough he gets a message/warning/alarm and a blaster, or he doesn't get access to the submenu).

I really think a redesign of the armory menu would be more elegant, just look at games like Urban Terror and even *gasp* Wolfentsien: ET.

That would serve quite nicely. A separate "sidearm" sub-menu or mixed in with the regular menu items? Cost of these items? Please continue...

I continue to applaud this Mod [Concept].

Sidearms vs. Traits, ftw!!! 

Originally I said: Good idea, but could use some tweaking, but now I say if you can get someone to make the Alien Traits (hint: Relics buffed/nerfed), then by all means someone code this, now! (j/k see poll choices)

btw: What models are proposed for the various sidearms? A one-colored overlay/reskin/glow of the blaster model, a la the Alien Traits? Or could one find a modeler interested in such a project? Please change my vote to make this now, or start a new thread with a new poll and include both Human Side-arms and Alien Playertraits in one huge, monthly megamod [Concept] thread. Then I can vote: Please, I beg of you, put this nearer to the top of the laundry list of things the rank-and-file think looks "kewl".

-psst- techhead: How was St. Pat's?

@OP: When you get a chance, can you list approximate "prices" for each of the suggested side-arms?

[Revan]

necro to save a good thread

[player1]

While I applaud the bump, I hardly think that two days (one of which is a nationally-sanctioned drinking holiday) quite constitutes the duration of thread-deadness required for a "necro". 

[Revan]

While I applaud the bump, I hardly think that two days (one of which is a nationally-sanctioned drinking holiday) quite constitutes the duration of thread-deadness required for a "necro". 

Two days? It seemed much longer.

[player1]

March 16, 2008, 05:26:28 PM » my post
March 19, 2008, 02:11:13 PM » ur post

OK, not including edits, maybe three days, tops.

@OP: Why hast thou forsaken us? Please reply to above quote-for-quote explication.

[_-+|[A]|+-_]

I find aliens are overpowerd and if you look at the stats of most servers you will find that im right, giveing humans a boost would be a good idea. 

[techhead]

You point the Targeting Laser at an enemy structure. If anyone is firing a chaingun, flamethrower or lucifer cannon at it, instead of the usual aim penalties these weapons suffer from, more of their scattered fire or splash damage gets concentrated on the target. You don't point it at enemy players, it does not control the aim of your own defensive structures, and because of interference, you can't use it near reactor or repeater power. It's sole purpose is against enemy structures, in the enemy base. I'm talking about an offensive anti-structure Targeting Laser like they had in Tribes, not a Defense Control Laser like was proposed on the MGDEV site (sorry, I never followed the link to see that we were talking about two different things ). I do NOT want to control the Human team's defensive structures. I want to coordinate and concentrate offensive heavy weapons fire (player-wielded and -aimed chainguns, flamers or lucis) against enemy structures. I'm not talking about the Benmachine/Risujin idea. I'm talking about the way they did it in Tribes. It's a cool idea, check it out.

Sounds complicated and/or odd. Not to mention the possibility of griefing that could be done. Point at a "bad" target, and now your teammates find their guns redirected away from what they were aiming for.

I played Deus Ex all the way through by putting all of my experience points, implants and weapon mods on/towards/in furtherance of the pistol before any other weapon or ability. Me likee Space marine standard issue bullet pistol. Laser pistol is cool, too, no doubt.

I also didn't quite feel that a bullet pistol really fit into the theme of the terran arsenal.

As I said, I think the fact that it's the only thing you can "wield" (your "gunhand" being occupied with it) and that it only takes about 50% damage makes this "sidearm" pretty weak (you can't hurt anybody or anything, unless you bring along a nade, and you still are taking half-damage). A good fallback on a base-rape run, but otherwise no major advantage.

I can think of a few uses, some potentially game-breaking. Remember, 5 tyrant-slashes to kill a bsuit with this on.
1. Use one as you run past alien defenses, then kill the base from the inside with your saw, luci, or pulse. (Unless its an all-trapper base)
2. Use it while you close the distance with your saw.
3. Use it with a bsuit to do suicide nade-runs without the suicide.
4. Use it to help save your ckit's life as you flee the base.

That would serve quite nicely. A separate "sidearm" sub-menu or mixed in with the regular menu items? Cost of these items? Please continue...

I continue to applaud this Mod [Concept].

Sidearms vs. Traits, ftw!!! 

Originally I said: Good idea, but could use some tweaking, but now I say if you can get someone to make the Alien Traits (hint: Relics buffed/nerfed), then by all means someone code this, now! (j/k see poll choices)

btw: What models are proposed for the various sidearms? A one-colored overlay/reskin/glow of the blaster model, a la the Alien Traits? Or could one find a modeler interested in such a project? Please change my vote to make this now, or start a new thread with a new poll and include both Human Side-arms and Alien Playertraits in one huge, monthly megamod [Concept] thread. Then I can vote: Please, I beg of you, put this nearer to the top of the laundry list of things the rank-and-file think looks "kewl".
@OP: When you get a chance, can you list approximate "prices" for each of the suggested side-arms

When I get a chance, I will, and whoever wants to code and/or model for this, please feel free to do so. A one-color overlay on the blaster would probably suck, so I guess modifiying the blaster model for some (laser-pistol, grappling hook) and making new models for others.

[Prince_Andrei]

How about a replacement side-arm that is a handheld stealth device? You couldn't wield your main weapon while using it, but when it's on, it makes you invisible to alien radar and cloaks you predator-like visually. It could have a five second charge up time and be used only for 10 seconds before needing another charge. I suggest this in part because it would decrease camping and increase offensive human strategy. You could even make it where it wouldn't work with bsuits or specific weapons, like the luci. Too many games end up spending 80+% of the time with rants sitting at all human base exits. With this, you could run behind a rant that is doing a hit-and-run and be out of radar range before the 10 seconds is over...

[Revan]

How about a replacement side-arm that is a handheld stealth device? You couldn't wield your main weapon while using it, but when it's on, it makes you invisible to alien radar and cloaks you predator-like visually. It could have a five second charge up time and be used only for 10 seconds before needing another charge. I suggest this in part because it would decrease camping and increase offensive human strategy. You could even make it where it wouldn't work with bsuits or specific weapons, like the luci. Too many games end up spending 80+% of the time with rants sitting at all human base exits. With this, you could run behind a rant that is doing a hit-and-run and be out of radar range before the 10 seconds is over...

GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!

[player1]

This is my favorite Mod That Never Got Made.

(bump yours today!)

[wannabe]

BEST!

[benmachine]

I actually started work (well, helped Badger start work) on introducing a semi-automatic pistol as an alternative to the blaster.
It's still knocking around somewhere but it's not in any usable state.

[player1]

I know I'll wake up in a cold sweat tonight, dreaming that I only had a jammed semi-auto pistol and a useless ckit, when this thing dropped down from the pipes above.

Maybe they'll both be ready in time for 1.3.

[starwarswins]

                                                                   Side-Arms
1. Enhanced Pistol
Description. An enhanced pistol that has more damage, faster pojectiles, faster ROF, and better accuracy.

Secondary fire. A charged shot.

Appearance. Same as pistol or larger pistol.

Cost. 100-200

2. Repair Kit
Would heal only buildings but has limited ammo.

Secondary fire. Sacrafice all ammo but automaticly repairs a building for 30 secs and /or can give a destroyed building 20 health.

Appearance. Small Ckit with gray color.

Ammunition. 20-30 repair cycles, must have full charge to save a building

Cost. 100-200

3. Energy Carbine (I.E. Carbine<Assault Rifle but Carbine>Submachine Gun)

Description. A fully automatic carbine that shoots instant hit, heavy damage, slightly larger pistol shots,a little bit faster than the   las gun, but you must sell both your primary weapon and pistol to use as recharging ammo pack needs more room.

Secondary fire. A long range charged shot or zoom or slow(I.E. tremX pulse rifle secondary fire).

Appearance. A larger version of the enhanced pistol with shoulder thing(stock I think its called), long barrel, and grip.

Ammunition. Unlimited possibly an overheat if required for balance.

Cost. 200-350 or 400-550 depending on power perferably 400-550.

4. Poison gun
Description. A melee weapon that poisions THE ALIENS FOR ONCE.

Damage. 20 at hit then disables regeneration (or does 5-8 damage if is easier to code) then 1 extra damge per second.

Spread. Same way as alien poison. Should last for about same time as alien poison.

Secondary Fire. None

Appearance. Pistol that has an open top with a visible green syringe and a needle sticking out of the end.

Ammunition. 1-3 or 5-10 shots.

Cost. 100-250 or 300-450 depending on effectivness

                                                               Balancing
I like the idea of giving the booster armory style upgrades. The aliens could have options such as
Extra speed. 1 evo
Extra health. 1 evo
Faster regeneration. 1 evo
Extra damage. 1evo
Straighter,faster firing, extra damaging spikes(goon only). 2 evo
A secondary fire explosive blob but weaker than tremX and only one. 1 or 2 evos depending on balance
A secondary fire grappling hook(I.E. webs). 1 or 2 evos depending on balance
Aliens should only be allowed to have 1 or 2 extras.

[googles]

Im currently working on a portal gun, maybe this could be your image of a *teleport gun*?

[Redsky]

I'm currently working on a portal gun, maybe this could be your image of a *teleport gun*?

indeed he is!

Good ideas! I liked the one where you can buy extra hp/regeneration/damage(my add) for evos as balance change(but no more than 1 enhancement).
The best in my opinion would be: laspistol(unlimited but overheating after 8 shots(one after another) than after 5s cooldown it would be able to shoot again 4 times only-the longer you wait(up to 10s) the more times you can shoot-8 shots is max), other great ideas: healkit/repairkit- infinite ammo, but veeery low rate.

While reading about your ideas for side arms... have you ever played in DeusEx? there are this spybots... you just activates and you guide(in limited range/time) it whiles your body is not moving anywhere-if bot is down(killed) or you press mouse button you return to your own body - simple.
I would leave helmets radar on the view(scanning any activity near real body) as body might be left without any protection
We could use that idea, though i would do walking(maybe even wallwalking) spybot in form of eg. nade(DeusEx2, which sucked-fun weapons tho). Bot could also explode whan killed/triggered dealing little damage (20-50 damage).

Techhead: Its so sad you dismissed your sentinel robots mod idea .

PS:LoL Spell Check wants to correct "DeusEx"==>"Durex"

[techhead]

I made the concepts for other people to use as inspiration. If someone wants to use them and make their own thing with them, they can go ahead. If they want to make my mod as I propositioned it, I would love to consult for them and help them along with the specifics.
The truth is, I have little experience in modeling or coding, so I would not be able to do much actual work on my mod, and I would not want to force my idea on someone unwilling to help.

P.S. If you want, I can take your disappointment in the lack of progress as your way of saying you wish to volunteer to do modeling.
P.P.S. My next idea will be one I've been pondering on for a whileTrem Fortress

[Yarou]

No.

[Player]

                                                                   Side-Arms

2. Repair Kit
Would heal only buildings but has limited ammo.

Secondary fire. Sacrafice all ammo but automaticly repairs a building for 30 secs and /or can give a destroyed building 20 health.

That can be abused if the person is standing next to a arm just keep using it than recharging your ammo would make it harder for rants to get past human defenses if they keep getting saved

[googles]

I may or may not attempt the grappling hook..tbh, it would be pretty easy in theory, just use some velocity code and the endpos of a trace...

[Kaleo]

Im currently working on a portal gun, maybe this could be your image of a *teleport gun*?

Translocator? Hmmm...

No.

Hi Yarou. Typical you, Mr Troll.
Would you like some milk and cookies?

[benmachine]

I may or may not attempt the grappling hook..tbh, it would be pretty easy in theory, just use some velocity code and the endpos of a trace...

Depends how cool you want it done. Zelda-style hookshot: relatively simple. Something like Metroid's grapple beam: a little more difficult.

[Roanoke]

Here's my take on the shield. Infinite ammo, and disintegrates when a rant charge hits it, and you take no damage, and the rant is stopped. No effect otherwise. Can be on for an unlimited amount of time.

[googles]

The hooker shot is very easy, just do a trace, and work with some velocity...

[Hendrich]

To contribute to this thread, has anyone thought of a Portable Scanner Deceive (PSD)? The PSD can scan its surroundings to detect alien or alien structures around the player, similar to a helmet. But, you can see the outline of the aliens/alien structures in a polygon-like style (Or something similar).

For example, with a helmet you trying to find a hiding dretch outside of the ATCS bunker after you killed all the other aliens and their spawns. You boot up the PSD and you see the outline of the dretch hiding inside the bunker, thats one way the PSD can be useful. Another is when you want to scout ahead of your base and see where other aliens/structures are located, but you don't want to give yourself away. Boot up the PSD and you can see other structures at a safe distance from alien radar. The PSD's scanning range can be increased while using the helmet.

Well, thats my idea, I can only imagine how difficult it would be trying to make that thing work, Eghhhhh...... Anyways, keep this thread alive, its one of the best ones around!

[Syntac]

Yay, legal wallhax!

The hooker shot is very easy, just do a trace, and work with some velocity...

[Hendrich]

Damn Syntac, are you always on the forums waiting to reply to anything that pops up? Your one hell of an night owl (and thats a compliment!).
And yes, in a way, it is a legal wallhax. 

The hooker shot is very easy, just do a trace, and work with some velocity... (Dirty Thoughts)

Thats the best idea ever, code it.