Portal - future tremulous mod?

[googles]

This will be a joint project between me and amanieu, this WILL now be the portal gun, and no longer the buildable...

[Paradox]

New weapon:
CKIT with a luci cannon out the front, and chaingun tines rapping around it.

Perfect.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

what do you mean portal? -.-

[googles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TluRVBhmf8w

i dont think i need to explain anymore

[+ OPTIMUS +]

it's awesome :-)

Troy already implemented the teleportation between 2 hovels into tremulous :-)

it would balance the humans with that ^^


idn if it's a bug paradise, maybe yes :-D

[techhead]

I have thought about it myself, but i thought of several limitations within both the Quake 3 engine and Tremulous itself:
1. The vis_portals would suck FPS like there was no tomorrow. (See: Pulse control room)
2. Quake 3 teleporters do not conserver momentum. (See: Any map with teleporters, really)
3. The camera/portal would display over a flat surface. (See: Pulse control room)
4. Even if you fixed 1, 2, and 3, engine limitations would prevent a smooth transition.
5. Multiplayer Portal gets... odd... even if you do have symmetrical teams.
6. Tremulous maps are not designed for a portal gun.
7. Tremulous balance is not designed for a portal gun. (2-man saw rush, for an example)

[googles]

solutions(maybe?):

1. i wasnt planning on using the portal method, just the main idea. I could create a blackhole looking thing and call it the wormhole gun
2. i wouldnt use the given teleporter function, id use the function that the !switch command uses
3. see 1
4. see 2
5. i would assign a name above everyones portal
6. check my comments below
7. as i said before, this isnt meant for balanced its just a little project i would like to do

Comments: think of it this way..this gun would be able to shoot teleporter holes, meaning if you step into it, it will instantly teleport you to the other hole. If there is only one portal then if you step into it, you will be teleported back out of it

[+ OPTIMUS +]

i'm starting to wonder if teleportation would prevent passive human strategies.

maybe it could. even telenodes, what are generally used for teleporting, could be portals. the need of outposts would make humans way more offensive i guess, and it would make bigger maps more fun. i just wonder.

[blood2.0]

i'm starting to wonder if teleportation would prevent passive human strategies.

maybe it could. even telenodes, what are generally used for teleporting, could be portals. the need of outposts would make humans way more offensive i guess, and it would make bigger maps more fun. i just wonder.

like in tremx?

[DarkEnix]

just wondering if this would happen

 (1) shoots portal at atcs middle and 1 at human base
 (2) shoots portal at atcs alien base and 1 at human base
 (1) steps in his portal but it went into alien base , saying : WTF , I GOT INTO ALIEN BASE!!
 while
 (2) steps in his portal and came into the middle throwing a nade , saying : SHIT!! , I WASTED A NADE ON NOTHING!!


which means

human->portal1->portal2
human->portal1->portal2
they may juz switch randomly

though i would love to help making the game.qvm for weapons
^^

[==Troy==]

if you want to  implement a proper portal, then it will take you a bit of coding, for example, if it is a hole in a brush, no matter if it is a portal, or just a blue circle, you will have to detect that the circle will not extend over the brush, and will not intercept other brushes on top of it.

Saving a momentum while teleporting is as easy as cake (my hovels do that, they even save the pounce damage when you use them as goon).

I have thought about telenodes as portals, but it does not seem to be the best choise, since noone will be able to choose where he wants to be teleported in general.

teleporting entities such as turrets shouldnt be a big problem either.

But still I wouldnt try to take on such mod personally.

[HeaveN]

what about having a new structue, like Teleport End(that could look just like a node) and you can build only one. Then you could teleport from normal nodes and the teleport end the same way the hovelport works.

[Shadowgandor]

lol
-makes a portal going from human base to alien base-
Guys, grab the lucies and start spamming the hell out of the gate!
Perfect, attacking the aliens by camping =)

[TinMan]

I've never heard of any Quake 3 mods that have used anything like a portal gun, but it would be possible.

The first problem would be the actual code for the portal gun and the entity of the portable portal - I'm not sure if you've ever played Gmod, but outside of the game Portal, all the other attempts at putting it into existing mods were really bad and the portal entity created a lot of lag. In Portal they fixed most of those problems with the HL2 engine, but the game is still more resource demanding than Quake 3. Have you ever played on an unlimited bp server? It would lag like that.

The second thing is the tremulous aspect of it. Why would anyone want portals on tremulous? I could see wanting to plant cameras and stuff, that's a nice thing that can be done. Portals in any multiplayer team game would be extremely confusing. People memorize maps so they don't have to deal with others teleporting up behind them, it would ruin the game for many.

What you need to think out before anyone would probably consider wanting this:
- How would it be implemented? How would non-backported clients handle it?
- How would you stop people from hacking at the code and using it to teleport away when they have 4 hp?
- How would teammates interface with your portal?
- How would you identify your own portal?
- How would you identify an enemy portal?
- Can your teammates use your portal?
- Can the enemy use your portal?
- Can you get telefragged if your portal sends you into another player or a building?
- Can objects such as grenades go through the portal? (like in Quake 4)
- Can you destroy someone's portal?
- How does a dretch create a portal?
- How would you stop people from using the portal to glitch outside of the map?
- How much would you pay me to help you with this?

[Paradox]

For the portal appearance on a wall or something, use a decal.

That way it will stick to the brush.

[benmachine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F31kVvyx1Fw

[googles]

I've never heard of any Quake 3 mods that have used anything like a portal gun, but it would be possible.

The first problem would be the actual code for the portal gun and the entity of the portable portal - I'm not sure if you've ever played Gmod, but outside of the game Portal, all the other attempts at putting it into existing mods were really bad and the portal entity created a lot of lag. In Portal they fixed most of those problems with the HL2 engine, but the game is still more resource demanding than Quake 3. Have you ever played on an unlimited bp server? It would lag like that.

The second thing is the tremulous aspect of it. Why would anyone want portals on tremulous? I could see wanting to plant cameras and stuff, that's a nice thing that can be done. Portals in any multiplayer team game would be extremely confusing. People memorize maps so they don't have to deal with others teleporting up behind them, it would ruin the game for many.

What you need to think out before anyone would probably consider wanting this:
- How would it be implemented? How would non-backported clients handle it?
- How would you stop people from hacking at the code and using it to teleport away when they have 4 hp?
- How would teammates interface with your portal?
- How would you identify your own portal?
- How would you identify an enemy portal?
- Can your teammates use your portal?
- Can the enemy use your portal?
- Can you get telefragged if your portal sends you into another player or a building?
- Can objects such as grenades go through the portal? (like in Quake 4)
- Can you destroy someone's portal?
- How does a dretch create a portal?
- How would you stop people from using the portal to glitch outside of the map?
- How much would you pay me to help you with this?

what everyone seems to forget, is that this isnt meant for normal gameplay, its only a little fun mod that isnt meant to be balanced

to tinman:

- How would it be implemented? How would non-backported clients handle it? like any other mod..
- How would you stop people from hacking at the code and using it to teleport away when they have 4 hp? creating another portal will remove both previous portals if the second portal is the third one made
- How would teammates interface with your portal? walk through it..
- How would you identify your own portal? you will have your name above the portal
- How would you identify an enemy portal? there will be team coloring(humans blue, aliens red) with the names
- Can your teammates use your portal? yes
- Can the enemy use your portal? yes
- Can you get telefragged if your portal sends you into another player or a building? yes
- Can objects such as grenades go through the portal? (like in Quake 4) no, only players
- Can you destroy someone's portal? no, they can only be reset
- How does a dretch create a portal? they dont
- How would you stop people from using the portal to glitch outside of the map? if you could explain how a player WOULD id tell you how
- How much would you pay me to help you with this? 9000 bubble dollars(gay ass spongebob joke)

i am also thinking of a living time for the portals...maybe they disappear after 10 secs?

i also forgot to add, once someone that can model( hi you sexy modelers) wants to help me, ill work on the code. no use in working on a untimatly unfinished project with busted models right?

[==Troy==]

some not so clever questions

as google has replied, all the answers are obvious.

The only question is the challenge to code it up for every entity. Since it has already been done on Q3 engine (thanks ben, it was interesting to watch), then it shouldnt be a big problem. I still think that the  effect / input required is quite low here...

Can anyone remind me of where is the vis module in the SC?


As for modelling google, dont expect a lot of input from modellers till you get the code 100% working. Use ckit to start with, then someone will for sure will get you the model.

[TinMan]

lulz:

- How would it be implemented? How would non-backported clients handle it? like any other mod..
* Different mods are handled different ways by the server and client.
- How would you stop people from hacking at the code and using it to teleport away when they have 4 hp? creating another portal will remove both
previous portals if the second portal is the third one made
* This was a question aimed at the portal effect, if your server has this on it then no doubt someone will modify it to exploit the portals as a plain teleporter, like the teleport item in Quake 3.
- How would you identify an enemy portal? there will be team coloring(humans blue, aliens red) with the names
* What about in and out? Different gfx?
- Can objects such as grenades go through the portal? (like in Quake 4) no, only players
* Good, that eliminates a large amount of the problems you'd run into.
- Can you destroy someone's portal? no, they can only be reset
* WEAK SAUCE, lol
- How does a dretch create a portal? they dont
* o'rly? What aliens do?
- How would you stop people from using the portal to glitch outside of the map? if you could explain how a player WOULD id tell you how
* Easy, shoot into one of the many places you can spawn glitch. e.g. bridge on Karith

Why would you use models for the portals? I could understand a portal gun, but not portal models...
I can model. You need those alien anus doorways from Prey as the portals.

[googles]

i meant the gun model, and to your glitch example, that not sure that can be stopped but still..who cares this isnt meant for normal gameplay servers lol

Troy: if you would like to work on it together contact me, you seem to know alot about this and could prob help me loads

[==Troy==]

i meant the gun model, and to your glitch example, that not sure that can be stopped but still..who cares this isnt meant for normal gameplay servers lol

After tweaking with the hovelports (check the Amsterdam Unlimited) I have not got any glitchbuild possible in general, at least for the last 2 months of testing there were none.

It can be done by a simple bbox check size increase, or an additional points that you are checking, but thats a bit harder.


Another problem you might have is that the portals will actually look like a simple teleportals, rather than a door, so that the entity is being partially teleported, which will require quite a bit of coding on the client side. (unless you will duplicate the entity on both sides and gradually drag it from the brush (yay to hacks) but then some parts of it might stick out from the other side, which is not nice, but on the other hand it will help you to fix the bug with glitch portal, due to the checks being done while you are moving through portal).


@ TinMan, wait for it to be coded to start with... Its not about balance but rather a challenge and fun of it. Why you take it so offencively? 

[Jalaco]

I love the idea Google and about blue and red portals... Why would they need to be diff teams? You could just have shoot1 shoot a red portal shoot2 shoot the corresponding blue portal. If you can go through enemy portals it makes no diff what color they are. How nice would that be for traps. Have an alien shoot a portal right by a trapper and some acids a hummie wanders in and UnnamedPlayer0 was melted by an acid tube... =P just suggestions.

oh and btw I want to be a beta\alpha\gamma tester please and iff theres any other way I can help just let me know.

\\^// Jalaco \\^//

[googles]

i meant the gun model, and to your glitch example, that not sure that can be stopped but still..who cares this isnt meant for normal gameplay servers lol

After tweaking with the hovelports (check the Amsterdam Unlimited) I have not got any glitchbuild possible in general, at least for the last 2 months of testing there were none.

It can be done by a simple bbox check size increase, or an additional points that you are checking, but thats a bit harder.


Another problem you might have is that the portals will actually look like a simple teleportals, rather than a door, so that the entity is being partially teleported, which will require quite a bit of coding on the client side. (unless you will duplicate the entity on both sides and gradually drag it from the brush (yay to hacks) but then some parts of it might stick out from the other side, which is not nice, but on the other hand it will help you to fix the bug with glitch portal, due to the checks being done while you are moving through portal).


@ TinMan, wait for it to be coded to start with... Its not about balance but rather a challenge and fun of it. Why you take it so offencively? 

well the thing is..my idea was to replace the bullet marks made when you shoot at a wall with a portal, downside with that is i have no idea how to link/make that into an entity and not just client side rendering

[==Troy==]

you better off with spawning a portal entity. Using the cleint-side marks is not possible, since you will have to synchronise between the clients and have some control over it from server side.

Easiest will be to take a  look at the teleport trigger and start off from there, and also try to dig up that source for the portal  done for the Elite Force.

[techhead]

Saving a momentum while teleporting is as easy as cake (my hovels do that, they even save the pounce damage when you use them as goon).

Would hovel-port-coded portals preserve momentum with respect to the orientation of both portals?

[googles]

Good news! i created a gun that can shoot teleporters that will teleport you to w/e they hit but the problem is..i cant get portals to work right, i cant make it spawn an entity

[your face]

Oooo, sounds awesomely l33t!  Can't wait!

[TinMan]

Send me a diff and I can check it out.

[googles]

Send me a diff and I can check it out.

i didnt put alot of effort into the space check into the gun, just used another function to do it with a little modding

this is very buggy and is just a test weapon, use the blaster to fire the teleporters

patch was based on the latest(38) SVN revision of the p-g-qvm

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tme2xf

[Divmax]

Send me a diff and I can check it out.

i didnt put alot of effort into the space check into the gun, just used another function to do it with a little modding

this is very buggy and is just a test weapon, use the blaster to fire the teleporters

patch was based on the latest(39) SVN revision of the p-g-qvm

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tme2xf

Correction, revision 39, and the latest is revision 40. One thing I noticed, sometimes it refuses to shoot.

EDIT : It refuses to shoot when your bbox is touching a wall.
EDIT2 : If you move after you shoot, your immediately teleported to the current location of the projectile. And spamming the blaster sometimes causes the thing to not shoot.
EDIT3 : Uh oh, you can shoot through playerclip brushes and get stuck there, same thing happens when you try to teleport to objects that are diagonal.
EDIT4 : You can glitch with this Screenshots below.