Author Topic: Anti-Camping Ideas? [updated]  (Read 55241 times)

The Me

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Anti-Camping Ideas? [updated]
« on: October 22, 2008, 01:56:55 am »
Why do humans camp? They have no incentive to leave the base (other than winning) and there is definitely a reason not to. Humans camp and they get credits, a lot of credits. Rants sitting outside the humans base gets impatient, runs in, dies, and thus the humans earn credits. If a human leaves the base, the single rant sitting outside the base instantly mauls them and why go bother that rant if he isn't doing anything to you? The answer to camping is not to promote adv. goons, for the humans respond to adv. goons attacking not by going out and killing them, but rather camping even harder and making sure they kill the goon before it can snipe their base.
Also, humans are much more dependent upon their structures then aliens are. Healing wise aliens don't even need their structures (other than touching a booster for accelerated healing) while the humans have to stand on top of the little green circle commonly known as the medistation, to replenish their health. Attack wise, humans need to constantly replenish their ammo while aliens can stay out attacking as long as they would like. Also, aliens can upgrade any where, given the Overmind is up, while humans have to run back to base to buy their upgrades.

Both the following ideas address one of the major problems with Tremulous, camping:

New alien: Another alien, most likely s3, cost around as much as rant, has a lot of health:
In itself, it is, theoretically but not visually, a big mobile hive , the player controlling it can slowly move toward human base, and set itself down. Once the player sets themselves down, they go into swarm view. Swarm view should either be the player as the swarm of bee-like-aliens flying, by looking in the direction of intended flight and holding the "forward" key, or some variation of that. Or, swarm view could be a sort of spectator view except the player mark a human and the hive automatically attacks the player (if they are in range). This will require humans to go out of the base and attack the attacker unless they wish to give it easy kills. Also, it will add some more strategy to the game. When this new alien feels itself being attacked, the user could un-siege and start slowly trying to run away when he does this, the hive stops attacking and starts making their way back to their host. (could have a feature where the hive will automatically attack the treat to their host while the host is moving) As opposed to the adv. goon, while this alien cannot attack buildings, he will be able to attack the humans from out of their view so they must go find it instead of just wait for it to come into their base.

Repeater BP:
Have BP set and customizable as it is now, but intead of it the BP being set for the total bp, have it set the BP given off by the Reactor and have a separate setting for the BP given off by a repeater. Say the Reactor BP is set as 80, in the area covered by the reach of the RC's power, the human team could only have eight telenodes or ten turrets or 4 telenodes and five turrets etc. If a player builds a repeater, the area of power the repeater supplies will have its own BP. Say the Repeater BP is set at 20. Per repeater, the builders could only make two telenodes or two turrets or a turret and a medistation, etc. Don't immediately think this will make the humans unstoppable. Remember that repeaters can only be placed outside of other areas of power so, the amount is limited to the size of the map. Also, (if the server does not make their repeater bp ridiculous) say the repeater BP is 20, the most defending structures that could hold is two turrets, this can easily be taken out by a goon, mara, or good basi. And, if the humans create too many repeaters, they will not be able to maintain them all and the aliens will be able to easily take them out. As for showing BP, my idea is if a player with a ckit walks into an area with power, display the remaining BP for that area, if they are not in an area with power, display a "X" or lightning bolt, or some other indicator as to no power.
Reasons for Repeater BP idea: It will reduce camping by rewarding players for leaving their base instead of punishing them by hurting their main base. In theory, the more repeaters the humans create, the more powerful they become. These repeaters will allow humans to stay out longer instead of having to return to base by allowing the to run through their base routine at the "mini-base" built by the humans. If the humans are on the defensive, the mini-bases will require constant upkeep against the average alien team, thus requiring the humans, if they wish to keep the mini-bases to stay by them instead of the main base. If placed strategically, the mini bases can be used to guard the main base so that the humans do not have to worry about sneak attacks.
Already done before.

New Human Weapon/Class:
How about having a "medic gun" something like all those class-based fps's out there. The classic thing to drop a small health pack or ammo. Or, straight from Team Fortress 2, a gun that a player can target a teammate with, and heal them constantly. I prefer the first one. The gun would of course have some type of regulator, like a recharge time on the hud (one for ammo one for health pack). As for incentive to be a medic, you could either have only the incentive of helping your teammates, or for the more selfish players (could also help noobs enjoy the game a little bit more by getting them some big guns) have the medic get a small token if one of the people they healed (and they are still by) kills an alien. Why I say they have to be around them is to prevent players from abusing this by hurting a teammate then healing them in base and letting the player run off while the medic earns creds. This way, they have to be out there helping. I personally like this idea better than my new alien class because it is much easier to add and would help stop camping and I personnally would love being a medic :D.

Minor sub-idea: for players carrying a ckit, display the range of power with, by tinting the affected are or floor some color. (such as in starcraft)

Ah and I suggest making basis or adv basis invisible on the radar so they can actually sneak up on people in s2 :D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 12:33:25 am by The Me »

Hendrich

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 03:40:40 am »
Hmm, The Me, did I play with you the TremFusion server?  ???

Anyways, I like your ideas, I especially like the Hive idea. But un-fortunately every idea will have its faults, which some players will state as this thread grows. Me, I'm too lazy to post faults unless its obvious, and you put your time into these ideas. The problem I found (Without me being too lazy :P ) Was the Starcraft/BP showing thing. Yea, that'll be nice to have, but it'll cause significant lag. 25% of the lag on most machines running Tremulous is based on the green outline shown before building anything, so having this huge circle might affect performance. Not sure if this is true or not, but I agree with your ideas.

I would love to see this put as a mod. The new alien just sounds kick-ass to have.  ;)


kevlarman

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 05:11:01 am »
Hmm, The Me, did I play with you the TremFusion server?  ???

Anyways, I like your ideas, I especially like the Hive idea. But un-fortunately every idea will have its faults, which some players will state as this thread grows. Me, I'm too lazy to post faults unless its obvious, and you put your time into these ideas. The problem I found (Without me being too lazy :P ) Was the Starcraft/BP showing thing. Yea, that'll be nice to have, but it'll cause significant lag. 25% of the lag on most machines running Tremulous is based on the green outline shown before building anything, so having this huge circle might affect performance. Not sure if this is true or not, but I agree with your ideas.

I would love to see this put as a mod. The new alien just sounds kick-ass to have.  ;)


90% spam, 10% completely incorrect information...
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
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Nux

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 11:53:50 am »
Firstly, I'm getting a little tired with comments (particularly from moderators) like yours, kevlarman. You're not telling me anything that shouldn't already be self evident from the post itself. If you're going to say the information is incorrect then go on to explain HOW it is incorrect.

*Follows his criticism with useful information*

The Me: Your first suggestion sounds scary. I can see the swarms of swarms already. Giving the aliens more outside capability when it's probably for that very reason the humans are afraid to go out seems like a step in the wrong direction.

Your BP idea on the other hand is a lot better and in fact has already been implemented on tHc servers in europe. I'll try to get back to you about it if you're interested.

SlackerLinux

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 01:53:09 pm »
Firstly, I'm getting a little tired with comments (particularly from moderators) like yours, kevlarman. You're not telling me anything that shouldn't already be self evident from the post itself. If you're going to say the information is incorrect then go on to explain HOW it is incorrect.

*Follows his criticism with useful information*

The Me: Your first suggestion sounds scary. I can see the swarms of swarms already. Giving the aliens more outside capability when it's probably for that very reason the humans are afraid to go out seems like a step in the wrong direction.

Your BP idea on the other hand is a lot better and in fact has already been implemented on tHc servers in europe. I'll try to get back to you about it if you're interested.

he doesn't really need to explain the 1st proposal gives aliens another OP alien they don't need. isn't the tyrant and adv goon enough

the 2nd points already been made(coded) somewhere. humans dont need more bases.
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Lava Croft

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 03:54:57 pm »
@Nux: I suggest you go to bed and sleep until the end of days.

@TheMe: The only way to make people stop camping is to change the people that camp.

In other words, stop playing with lamers, and/or start playing on a server where you can remove campers from the game.

The Me

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 07:02:09 pm »
*Follows his criticism with useful information*

The Me: Your first suggestion sounds scary. I can see the swarms of swarms already. Giving the aliens more outside capability when it's probably for that very reason the humans are afraid to go out seems like a step in the wrong direction.

Your BP idea on the other hand is a lot better and in fact has already been implemented on tHc servers in europe. I'll try to get back to you about it if you're interested.
Well, lets say there are "swarms and swarms of bees" as long as the humans don't stand still, they should be fine also I was imagining the alien being fairly easy to kill (if a human goes to attack it). As for making them afraid to go out of their base, I would imagine this making them scared to stay in their base for if they do, they get attacked by an enemy which they cannot attack back from in their base. If they go attack the enemy, they are almost certain to be able to kill it as long as they don't get mauled by a rant.
he doesn't really need to explain the 1st proposal gives aliens another OP alien they don't need. isn't the tyrant and adv goon enough

the 2nd points already been made(coded) somewhere. humans dont need more bases.
As I said, this alien does not need to be over powered... the creator could set it to whatever damage and health to make it fair. The Tyrant is good to wipe out attackers, the goon takes out buildings and this alien will take out campers or more hopefully bring them out.
@TheMe: The only way to make people stop camping is to change the people that camp.

In other words, stop playing with lamers, and/or start playing on a server where you can remove campers from the game.
No, as I said, people camp because they can attack the aliens from within their base without having to worry about being killed. Take away that and there would be no reason to camp. Add and incentive to go out of the base and then that should eliminate camping all together. Im not saying both my ideas are the best and only ways, I just disagree with only countering camping by making the humans defenses weaker and allowing for adv goons at an earlier stage. The weaker rets require the humans to camp because if they leave, one mara can take out their defenses (I tested this myself by building the average base and attacking with a mara). So basically if they leave the base against a team with atleast one good alien, their base is doomed.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 10:29:47 pm by The Me »

tsurano

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 08:59:09 pm »
Hmm, The Me, did I play with you the TremFusion server?  ???

Anyways, I like your ideas, I especially like the Hive idea. But un-fortunately every idea will have its faults, which some players will state as this thread grows. Me, I'm too lazy to post faults unless its obvious, and you put your time into these ideas. The problem I found (Without me being too lazy :P ) Was the Starcraft/BP showing thing. Yea, that'll be nice to have, but it'll cause significant lag. 25% of the lag on most machines running Tremulous is based on the green outline shown before building anything, so having this huge circle might affect performance. Not sure if this is true or not, but I agree with your ideas.

I would love to see this put as a mod. The new alien just sounds kick-ass to have.  ;)


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@The Me
The hive idea would make it impossible for aliens to defend their base.  Instead of punishing hums for camping, why not reward for not camping?

The Me

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 10:28:51 pm »
@The Me
The hive idea would make it impossible for aliens to defend their base.  Instead of punishing hums for camping, why not reward for not camping?
read my second idea which has apparently been done, especially read the "Reasons" part of it.

TheLuciferSausage

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2008, 02:28:49 am »
Fast Camping Solutions without needing to code:

1. Base irradiation: When humans have more than 500 credits and stay near a turret for more than 5 consecutive minutes, they get damaged.
2. Admin actions: Warn camper, then kick him. Or !slap/bother him.
3. Motivate team: Say things like "let's attack in groups", "follow me", do the "come on!" looking at a camper...
4. Donate/Share: some players say they need to camp because they are defenceless outside base with a rifle and they will feed.
5. Increase BPs: give enough build points to allow humans to create a forward base.
6. Decrease BPs: less buildings so they don't feel so much secure inside base.

Disclaimer: Yes, just 1 and 2 will work with lammers.

Lava Croft

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2008, 04:53:56 am »
@TheMe: 'Stop playing with lamers' implies that you stop playing with peope that camp; problem solved.

player1

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2008, 06:44:24 am »


Aliens camp, too. If a rant isn't willing to take on turrets with a healing ability and 400 hp, he can shut the hell up about me not coming out to play with him. If I am in my house, and you are living on my lawn, who is camping? I say come in and get me, oh big bad wolf.

Humans, stick together. Chase the Aliens. Enjoy their surprise when you actually leave your base. Oh, and, it's cold out there, so don't forget to put a hat on.

Cheers, campers.

Camping. Shut the fuck up about it and rush already.

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Nux

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2008, 12:35:16 pm »
Fast Camping Solutions without needing to code:

1. Base irradiation: When humans have more than 500 credits and stay near a turret for more than 5 consecutive minutes, they get damaged.
2. Admin actions: Warn camper, then kick him. Or !slap/bother him.
3. Motivate team: Say things like "let's attack in groups", "follow me", do the "come on!" looking at a camper...
4. Donate/Share: some players say they need to camp because they are defenceless outside base with a rifle and they will feed.
5. Increase BPs: give enough build points to allow humans to create a forward base.
6. Decrease BPs: less buildings so they don't feel so much secure inside base.

Disclaimer: Yes, just 1 and 2 will work with lammers.

1. I've tried this and found it very annoying. I'm not the kind of person who likes to stay still at all, yet even I suffered for 'camping' (by that definition) when I was forced back by the aliens. This is part of a group of solutions which attempt to eliminate camp by giving humans more of a disadvantage in already bad circumstances. That's just not fun.
2. It 'works' but is ideally not required.
3. More advice than motivatio. Players don't have to- and tend not to -follow it.
4. Yes, but the other lazy/scared people tend to use the free points to fire a constant stream of spam balls at the exit they're so afraid of using.
5. Best idea listed but doesn't this just mean camping in the extended base?
6. No Base -> No Camping (+No Humans) Yes, that's hyperbole but illustrates the point. This fits into the same group of solutions as 1.

EDIT:

@Nux: I suggest you go to bed and sleep until the end of days.

Will you wake me up before you overthrow heaven and cast judgement on all of us? :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 12:48:32 pm by Nux »

TheLuciferSausage

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2008, 01:59:08 pm »
Indeed Nux, none of them are really THE solution.
Our admin team discussed on how to avoid camping, we tried all those 6 items plus a lot more and we declared it was a human tremulousian natural fenomenon. Unevitable.

We now have binds that !warn, !slap or even !kick the player in the cursor aim, this way is easier to bother jetcampers and campers without having to go to spectators or wasting time typing the name and reason.

janev

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2008, 03:16:43 pm »
I find frequent use of !ban 52w works just fine.
Sure you lose a few players but hell... you wouldn't want to play with them anyway.
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The Me

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2008, 08:39:38 pm »
@TheMe: 'Stop playing with lamers' implies that you stop playing with peope that camp; problem solved.
I'm not complaining about camping. I am suggesting ways to fix it. You can't escape lamers, because as it is, when the base under lockdown by aliens and all the exits have 3 rants, humans have either camp, or feed and give the rants outside the base more evos so they can continue guarding the exits even if they die.

Syntac

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2008, 08:44:50 pm »
Remember, camping doesn't just mean staying in your base. It's staying in the same place for an extended period of time. This also applies to aliens who guard every single entrance to the human base and never actually, you know, try to attack it.

How do you fix the camping problem? Simple. Kick 'em.

TheLuciferSausage

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2008, 11:39:04 pm »
aliens who guard every single entrance to the human base and never actually, you know, try to attack it.

I'm curious, :P
In the spanish community we call it "gatecamping". How do you guys define that?

mooseberry

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2008, 01:41:23 am »
Like he said, just camping...
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daenyth

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2008, 04:32:08 am »
They have no incentive to leave the base (other than winning)
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zybork

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2008, 07:03:16 pm »
Quote
Why do humans camp? They have no incentive to leave the base (other than winning) and there is definitely a reason not to. Humans camp and they get credits, a lot of credits. Rants sitting outside the humans base gets impatient, runs in, dies, and thus the humans earn credits. If a human leaves the base, the single rant sitting outside the base instantly mauls them and why go bother that rant if he isn't doing anything to you? The answer to camping is not to promote adv. goons, for the humans respond to adv. goons attacking not by going out and killing them, but rather camping even harder and making sure they kill the goon before it can snipe their base.
Also, humans are much more dependent upon their structures then aliens are. Healing wise aliens don't even need their structures (other than touching a booster for accelerated healing) while the humans have to stand on top of the little green circle commonly known as the medistation, to replenish their health. Attack wise, humans need to constantly replenish their ammo while aliens can stay out attacking as long as they would like. Also, aliens can upgrade any where, given the Overmind is up, while humans have to run back to base to buy their upgrades.

I *perfectly* agree on all this. But the rest: Forget it.

I have some other suggestions:

  • 1 Reduce strength of dretch head-bites to 34, this would mean that a dretch has to hit me 3 times, not just 2, while I have to hit a fast moving small target 5x with my rifle to get it down. This prevents me from running back to my base too soon.
  • 2 Make armoury less vulnerable or give reactor armory capability. Otherwise we have to care like hell and can't risk to let that precious piece of metal get down, so we don't dare to run too far away from it. Either make arm as strong as reactor, or make reactor capable of armoury function. I would prefer the latter.
  • 3 Give humans more ammunition, I usually don't dare to use up all my ammo, because otherwise I may have nothing to defend myself while running home. Other solution: Feed. Then I don't need ammo for my way back.
  • 4 Reverse charging process of Luci. Luci charges automatically and remains in that state unless triggered. If triggered before full reload, bursts are weaker. If secondary button is pressed, just fire a small burst that discharges Luci just a little.
  • 5 enable humans to refill each others ammo. Go to a teammate, aim at him and push "use structure" button to give him a certain amount of your own ammo (one clip of rounds or 25pt energy). Bullet-based weapons and energy based weapons wielder may help each other, flamethrowers are the exception, they can only recharge other flamethrowers.
  • 6 Weaken power of advgoon-barbs, weaken power of tyrant slashes ONE RANT in our base can be the end. ONE GOON+ to snipe the armoury + one tyrant can be the end. Weakon their weapons, dammit! Or else half a dozen have to defend the base just to get rid of two. Once a goon+ shows up and starts to snipe, there is no way of going out, because you mustn't let that bug get down your base.
  • 7 Slow down regeneration rate of goons and tyrants to "pretty slow". If they want to regenerate quickly, they must be near the overmind or near a booster. This should buy humans enough time to leave their/make aliens depend more on their own base.

This means to improve humans/weaken aliens, so some improvements to aliens should be done as well:

  • a Increase grab distance of basilisk
  • b Make goon+ and tyrant able to "squish" dretches and basilisks and grangers If you get in the way of a tyrant or a goon+ plus you are a small alien: Bad luck. You will be "stepped on" or squished like between two moving blocks. No penalties will be given to big aliens squishing small ones: The small ones are to blame for blocking.
  • c Make wallwalking aliens able to bounce off the floor when falling down. If you are a wallwalking, "small" alien, and you fall down, push the crouch-button to bounce off the floor like a ball. So, if you drop from a bigger altitude, you will be reflected up to heigher then you could jump.
  • d Allow marauders to grab the ceiling or wall when touching it. If you are mara, you can hit the crouch-button during jump, and then you can grab the ceiling/wall you touch and stick on it like a wallwalking small alien, but you cannot move for you are too heavy, if you'd set one foot loose, you'd fall down, so you can't move on the ceiling or walls. Maybe this could be modified in that way, that advanced marauders can only grab walls, not the ceiling, because they are too heavy to grap themselves to ceilings.

Summary:

Make humans less dependent on their base, make aliens' weapons weaker, but make aliens themselves more agile

Maybe this would solve the "marshmellow problem", because I camp myself much more often when human then when I play aliens.
I have retired from Tremulous. Definetely. If you play a game just because it has become a habit, but u'r only feeling like a kindergarten teacher - well, maybe I am just getting too old (hell, I was a teenager when DukeNukem3D was *new*) - it's probably not a bad idea to just let it be. And I do.

Don't take this personally. Have fun, guys.

UniqPhoeniX

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2008, 11:45:20 pm »
1 Reduce strength of dretch head-bites to 34
They would have to hit your head 4-5 times, because you can use medikit and heal between headbites, unless you stand still. And 5 shots on rifle are faster then 2 hits on dretch. IIRC headbite damage was reduced from 2x to 1.5x (dretch =72)
2 Make armoury less vulnerable or give reactor armory capability.
Ever thought of building armory behind the reactor? Oh and check & repair your base from time to time, not when reactor/half the base is already smoking.
3 Give humans more ammunition
Learn to use the ammo you have without wasting. I can't remember the last time I had trouble with that.
4 Reverse charging process of Luci
Let luciers have full load ready at all times (ie remove the main disadvantage of it)? I'd prefer if it wasn't made into a ultimate weapon, it's already very good at destroying the enemy base. And how would you fire weaker shots to save ammo when you don't need a full shot?
5 enable humans to refill each others ammo.
Pulse with battpack has a total of 375 ammo, if he can give that to a luci+battpack, it will get a total of 510 ammo... If this was ever made, it would need to change the amount depending on the weapon or only allow refilling of same weapons. Also I doubt that any trem bullet-based weapon can use another ones ammo.
6 Weaken power of advgoon-barbs, weaken power of tyrant slashes
They are quite well balanced IMO, humans strength comes from teamwork... and using the right weapons/upgrades.
7 Slow down regeneration rate of goons and tyrants to "pretty slow".
Regen rates are changed in mgdev.

a Increase grab distance of basilisk I rarely use basi, so idk.
b Make goon+ and tyrant able to "squish" dretches and basilisks and grangers
Sure, this will help a lot of newbs to leave the game. In mgdev basilisks increase heal rate, but if they constantly get squished by touching a big alien, none of them will help the bigger aliens. A noob goon/rant can be a huge pain for dretches by blocking in base, and easily cause them to lose.
c Make wallwalking aliens able to bounce off the floor when falling down.
I see no need for this.
d Allow marauders to grab the ceiling or wall when touching it.
I wouldn't mind being *able* to grab walls for 1-2 sec to get to some higher places.

Hendrich

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2008, 01:10:56 am »
How to stop camping problems? Camp back. Hell yea.  :police:

Just get on a better server to play on. If people are camping, either rush their ass with your buddies, kick them or leave the server because there isn't much to do about it. Find ways to stop their camping spree, go with your teammates to weaken one defense structure at a time, etc. The developers are making solutions to the camping problem whereas here we're just making up ideas that un-balance gameplay.

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Paradox

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2008, 01:22:26 am »
Teleport any camper into the opposite teams base, and take away 99% of their health.

∧OMG ENTROPY∧

player1

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Re: Anti-Lame Thread Ideas?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2008, 04:26:13 am »
Camping. Shut the fuck up about it and rush already.

oh crap is zybork back on his favorite soapbox again?

zybork

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2008, 10:45:27 am »
Tremulous IS unbalanced: Aliens are in favour in short range fights, but most of the fights happen in a short range, only rarely can humans act out their long range capabilities, the projectiles are either slow (pulse, luci), inaccurate or short ranged (chaingun, shotgun, flamer, painsaw), weak (rifle, lasergun) or have a  painfully slow rate of fire (mass driver).

However, the biggest problem we have in a game that is "camped down" is the lack of tactical knowledge in special or, in general, simple stupidity. A well organized human team is always superior to any alien team, but honestly: How many times did you ever play in a well organized human team? You have one or two leets, who knock down the aliens literally alone, some newbies who don't know anything (but that's not a problem, we all were newbs once) and then a lot of people running around having no clue what to do. (That's why I wanted to introduce the TM-guild http://www.antivegan.at/tm ,but I am not good at marketing.)

When alien, yo now do not really need a strategy, you can just press on with the attack, and you will win. For humans, this is different. If they are unorganized, they're dead. And they're dead most of the time. That's my experience so far, and I am much more dangerous when playing alien then I am when playing human, altough the speed of my reflexes and tactical knowledge remains the same. But playing alien, I am nearly always a lone fighter - and succeed.

Here is an excerpt of my bindings btw:

Code: [Select]
bind F10 "say friendly fire isn't!"
bind g "sell weapons; buy rifle; sell upgrades; buy helmet; buy gren; say_team I try to run and nade their base now."
bind l "say_team Don't go alone, team up!"
bind m "say_team Form teams of 3 to 4 and attack!"

Lack of tactical knowledge now is something that won't change, so programmers should do something about it - to restore balance.
I have retired from Tremulous. Definetely. If you play a game just because it has become a habit, but u'r only feeling like a kindergarten teacher - well, maybe I am just getting too old (hell, I was a teenager when DukeNukem3D was *new*) - it's probably not a bad idea to just let it be. And I do.

Don't take this personally. Have fun, guys.

kevlarman

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2008, 08:08:10 pm »
try playing on mgdev some more, many people have whined about and/or praised (yes there have been people who did both) the fact that aliens can no longer succeed without teamwork.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
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Hendrich

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2008, 09:44:58 pm »
Quote
Tremulous IS unbalanced

And the ideas in this thread is helping it?  :P

The only problem  I had with the mgdev server was their utterly gay alien-sexual font. I didn't see any reason to change the old one, now its harder to read text.  :-\


rotacak

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2008, 11:25:29 pm »
try playing on mgdev some more
And how? "VM_Create on UI failed" -> quit

kevlarman

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Re: Anti-Camping Ideas?
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2008, 11:55:39 pm »
try playing on mgdev some more
And how? "VM_Create on UI failed" -> quit
enable downloads.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
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|..d| #
|.@.-##
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