We've played enough Saturday games without changing the balance that I feel confident about needing to change a few more things:
I personally just try to accept the fact that maybe THEIR suggestion is better than mineThis is where we differ. And I don't mean better than mine personally, I mean better than the general populations.
No I do not have to admit that at all. Change gameplay, maybe. Improve, no.
Come on, now, you'd have to admit that some of them will improve gameplay.
P.S.
cl_allowdownload needs to be set to 1 this time around. None of that prompting shit either. If it isnt 1, we are stuck with another ten years of ATCS.
What's wrong with the prompt? Over here in the UK running code on someone's computer without there permission is illegal. Would you prefer a 50-page EULA to sign away all the rights to your computer just to play?
The stats are frankly full of bullshit games between retarded public players.
I just don't care about developers' whims.Whose whims do you think produced 1.1? The exact same process used to make 1.1 is being used to make 1.2, and by pretty much the exact same people. The only difference is now the sausage-making has an audience.
The stats are frankly full of bullshit games between retarded public players.
Those players you so blithely diagnose as retarded are the vast majority of players.
I just don't care about developers' whims.Whose whims do you think produced 1.1? The exact same process used to make 1.1 is being used to make 1.2, and by pretty much the exact same people. The only difference is now the sausage-making has an audience.
1. Those players you so blithely diagnose as retarded are the vast majority of players.
2. Do you honestly believe that your metathesiophobia should prevent updates which the vast majority of players have agreed are good?
David, I did not say I had an irrational dislike of the new changes. I said that I play what I enjoy. Do you have a problem with that? I did not say anything about Norf. I said, "The devs are great." If you had read, not just skimmed, you would have picked up on my stoic indifference. Please don't skim.
I am going to play 1.1 equivalents almost exclusively in the future just as I have in the past. Please keep this in mind when reading my bullshit.A refusal to consider the other side generally sits as irrational in my book.
Yes. I don't think the vast majority of players are intelligent enough to know what the fuck is going on (just as most people aren't). It would be something of a miracle if Trem players were that competent.So you're picking the arrogant option then?
When you are fixing things, you have an update - when you are changing things, you have a mod. I have very simply contended that you can't justify putting a Hershey bar in a Snickers wrapper. We don't want to buy it.And you could argue that nothing has been changed, simply fixed to be closer to how it was originally intended. And you yourself advocated added classes and weapons as being an "update".
So where are the useful things? Where is the balanced, tested mappack? Anti-hack features? I am being repetitive because you tried to dismiss my main post without having actually read it.I ignored those in your original post as I assumed it was common knowledge that there will be different maps in 1.2. There's also the official map repo and www-downloads default enabled, so playing and finding good custom maps should be a lot easier. The anti-hack thing has been suggested and shot-down many times. I won't bother rehashing all the reasons why it doesn't work here.
Nobody wants to play 1.1)
Do you honestly believe that your metathesiophobia should prevent updates which the vast majority of players have agreed are good? Is your ego really that large or are you just trolling?
So tell me why any of us should bother to listen to a word you say?
Nobody wants to play 1.1)I do!
When you are fixing things, you have an update - when you are changing things, you have a mod. I have very simply contended that you can't justify putting a Hershey bar in a Snickers wrapper. We don't want to buy it.And you could argue that nothing has been changed, simply fixed to be closer to how it was originally intended. And you yourself advocated added classes and weapons as being an "update".
Yes. I don't think the vast majority of players are intelligent enough to know what the fuck is going on (just as most people aren't). It would be something of a miracle if Trem players were that competent.So you're picking the arrogant option then?
Your ability to misquote is astounding. I said that like Ozzy I supported the addition of perhaps one weapon and class within the proven and established framework of 1.1, not in the new mess of 1.2 modifications (and so far there are no new classes or weapons anyhow). Please refer to my first post.When you are fixing things, you have an update - when you are changing things, you have a mod. I have very simply contended that you can't justify putting a Hershey bar in a Snickers wrapper. We don't want to buy it.And you could argue that nothing has been changed, simply fixed to be closer to how it was originally intended. And you yourself advocated added classes and weapons as being an "update".
You said (twice now) that adding new classes would be "an update". You also said that "changing things" is a mod. Adding classes is very much "changing things". Maybe you should take your own advice and read things.
Thorn: You know I'm not a developer, and am totally unaffiliated with the developers. Pull you head out of your fucking arse and thing before you type.
"Norf can't dodge" and "Norf keeps losing" were my attempts to identify the motivations behind the specific set of changes in this topic's list (the other two lines in italics that don't mention Norf's name were also supposed causes I identified - they are answers to the question "why 1.2?" - please thoroughly reread my first post before you come to me with further misunderstandings). I used Norf's name because this is his topic, he's actively posting, and I think he's important. I am telling you I don't have a problem with Norfenstein (whom I don't know). Please leave it at that.you've never actually tried these changes, yet you seem to think you know better than someone who has been playing trem pretty much since it existed. "blade can't aim" and "blade keeps losing" are probably at least as valid as the arguments you're making.
Now why don't you take some new advice and try to get a grip on the language you attempt to speak. On the other hand, maybe you should just continue making a complete ass of yourself and claiming that the general concensus as it stands agrees with your opinions.
Thorn: You know I'm not a developer, and am totally unaffiliated with the developers. Pull you head out of your fucking arse and thing before you type.
Before Thorn's statements were making sense - now he willjust try toend you.
Norfenstein can't dodge.
Nerf dragoons and add a ridiculous dodge mechanic.
But if Norfenstein and humans are losing more than aliens, they won't be having fun.
What do you want, 50/50 balance without putting any effort into balancing maps? A lot of us love gameplay as it is. If you want to make a tennis court to play basketball on, call it Norfenstein's Mod.
You said (twice now) that adding new classes would be "an update". You also said that "changing things" is a mod. Adding classes is very much "changing things". Maybe you should take your own advice and read things.
And no, nobody wants to play 1.1. What you all want to play is what all the server currently run, modified 1.1 gameplay with a million bug fixes.
1.1 has no admins, lots of bugs, and as I recall poison and goon pounce have been changed, and probably other things that all servers have.
Norfenstein rules anyone on BOTH teams - the speech you are giving us is utter crap, Blade.
Tremulous Development server 0/30fixed that for you. the server that norf was testing these changes on before stayed populated long after other servers were removing their name just to get any players.
Tremulous Development Server2 0/18
AA 20/32
NO camping, NO baserapingIllogical people alright.
And as for the camping, as a human, there was really no need to camp, aside from when the large aliens all amassed and chomped the turrets.
It seems people are blindly defending 1.2 because its 1.2.It seems people are blindly attacking 1.2 because its not 1.1.
Rants can be taken down solo in 1.1. If you can't take a rant down at least a third of the time, you suck at the game.If they are afking/being 999/Having <70HP YES.
I would except that I posted a ton of shit and he responded to everyone *but* me.Because there's nothing to say. Your mind isn't going to change about wanting to stay with 1.1, and there really isn't anything wrong with that. What's unreasonable is wanting the developers to do free maintenance on 1.1 instead of making the game we want to make. We're doing this all without compensation, remember, and I think it's generous enough that we provide the source code so that anyone that does want something different than what we want can go ahead and make it without having to start from scratch.
Tremulous Development server 0/30
Tremulous Development Server2 0/18
AA 20/32
As far as the ATCS haters (certainly not saying I blame them :angel: ) I had a map idea that I've never brought up and frankly don't know if it would be allowed under the licenses for maps and their textures. I also don't think that mappers would go for it, an important consideration./me cheers! ;D
The idea was that 1.2 be distributed with a large texture pak containing everything needed for all default maps except the map (qvm? I fergit). Then servers could have the option of removing default maps from being even a voting option. As a result, server owners could remove any overplayed maps (atcs in this example >.> ) without damaging the integrity of maps that use its textures.
Except uncreation which should be hardcoded into the rotation of every server whether they like it or not :P
TBO, I can't imagine mappers would go for it and as I say, the texture licenses may complicate it as well. However, a large texture pack may may may stop new mappers from making everything with atcs textures >.>
Frankly I've had a whole lotta fun on atcs, but I sometimes wonder if its become the equivalent of a tic to new players.
--- snip ---
I hate to be so rude, but X is just, uh, how do I say this politely, retarded. I love dretching. It's one of the main things that attracted me to trem. Wall walking is the best thing ever and frankly, I've been playing FPS's for longer than many you have been alive (yes, I really am old) and very few FPSs over the years have the ability to throw the 3d aspects all to hell by making everything "down". There was a spaceship game years back that it reminds me of built on a doom engine I think, I forget the name of it though.
--- snip ---
1.1 is balanced. I'd argue Tremulous is probably the one of the finest examples of balanced gameplay.Then you'd be at the losing side of that argument. 1.1 is not very balanced at all.
The problem is that any idiot can corner camp with a rant. Any idiot can shoot their feet and kill 10 dretches from the splash damage. The game isn't broken, the difference in player skill is broken because Tremulous has a steep learning curve. The rant and the luci makes it painfully obvious.It's perfectly balanced, except when "any idiot" can use basic tactics. Okey.
1.2 changes a lot. I don't feel like dumping all over it. It is pretty obvious that there are some huge changes that will change the skill level of the game. Particularly, humans will require less skill than now and aliens will require more.I don't see how humans require less skill.
1.2 isn't as deadly as it used to be and that gives ranged attackers an advantage that the melee team just can't counter. Humans weapons aren't really weaker and aliens certainly lost some power, so when an alien does get in range after the humans take pot shots at them on approach, I don't know how they will compensate without their previous damage, range, and regen values.Aliens have lost powers as well as gained new ones.
You ppl don't realize that the devs could make whatever game they want the way they want it, either help or shut up... and the ppl who don't like the changes are much more vocal about it, so there are more posts from them. There will probably be a 1.1 balance mod anyway so stop crying about that. The devs are making the changes to classes/buildables that were under/overpowered, and saying that there are too many changes just means you haven't kept up with the progress. They didn't add all of those 1 week/month/year even.
There are some minor changes I don't fully agree with, but most changes are good imo and I support what the devs are trying to do. Camping can't delay games for as long any more, bases can't be rebuilt that fast, rants are more balanced, basi and mara have been improved, etc.
You ppl don't realize that the devs could make whatever game they want the way they want it, either help or shut up... and the ppl who don't like the changes are much more vocal about it, so there are more posts from them. There will probably be a 1.1 balance mod anyway so stop crying about that. The devs are making the changes to classes/buildables that were under/overpowered, and saying that there are too many changes just means you haven't kept up with the progress. They didn't add all of those 1 week/month/year even.
There are some minor changes I don't fully agree with, but most changes are good imo and I support what the devs are trying to do. Camping can't delay games for as long any more, bases can't be rebuilt that fast, rants are more balanced, basi and mara have been improved, etc.
If you have anything helpful to say, then say it, otherwise don't, that's what I meant... You keep saying that you don't like anything but not how to do it better. How would you solve human/rant camping, how would you make hives as useful as acids, how would you make people use basi and mara more? And don't say that pr0's don't need those changes because that is not even close to the majority of players. Devs want those problems fixed, you don't. Well you are not leading this project.
You also keep talking like you represent a majority, so prove it, or speak only for yourself.
The fact that 'good players' don't come here means they don't want their voice heard. So they either like 1.2 or have decided to stay with 1.1 balance.
You not having seen me is totally irrelevant. Maybe I don't live on the same continent?
Also amz181, Trem is still developed by the same devs, if you want to help then do it. If not then stay in 1.1.
You ppl don't realize that the devs could make whatever game they want the way they want it, either help or shut up... and the ppl who don't like the changes are much more vocal about it, so there are more posts from them. There will probably be a 1.1 balance mod anyway so stop crying about that. The devs are making the changes to classes/buildables that were under/overpowered, and saying that there are too many changes just means you haven't kept up with the progress. They didn't add all of those 1 week/month/year even.
There are some minor changes I don't fully agree with, but most changes are good imo and I support what the devs are trying to do. Camping can't delay games for as long any more, bases can't be rebuilt that fast, rants are more balanced, basi and mara have been improved, etc.
rant
counterrantdevs are nazis!
nahaaajahaaa
1.1 was unbalanced1.2 is unbalanced
You just fail to play it right*cough* I think you will find I am the better fragwhore so MY opinion is more valid
For once, I actually agree with Repatition. I think AMP would be a welcome addition.
The fact that good players don't come here means they would rather spend their time playing the game, nothing else.Or, they just don't care and you pretend to read their mind. Either speak for your own or don't, if they really cared they would go out of their way to take 5 minutes and say what they think of it.
ps. Ultimately the only way you can get someone to develop your ideas on their time is pay them. So you can huff and puff (a.k.a giving feedback) all you want without getting anywhere or hang back and see what the polished version of 1.2 looks like before giving your final verdict.
QuoteThe fact that good players don't come here means they would rather spend their time playing the game, nothing else.Or, they just don't care and you pretend to read their mind. Either speak for your own or don't, if they really cared they would go out of their way to take 5 minutes and say what they think of it.
And even then, they're still a minority.
Two things that should have happened:
1) 1.2 released with minor, non-major gameplay changes that will simply improve the overall Trem experience
2) More player feedback over the years. I doubt these disagreeable changes would have taken place if we had 20-30 "regular" players complained every week on the dev games. The fact of the matter is that we (the players) didn't have enough people voicing our opinions for them to be taken seriously. As a result, the 1.2-supporters' argument is essentially "you have not played enough on 1.2 to provide accurate and informed feedback." And in some ways, they are correct.
Hives don't need to be as useful as acids,
(I really hope you re-think the dragoon's pounce before you release 1.2...)he already did :\
I support 1.1. My leet signature proves it. kthx!This just made my day =D
If you hate the 1.2 balance changes, put this image in your signature:
http://cron.unvanquished.net/imgboard/src/1255747286279.png
They simply aren't fun.
How the hell does THAT make sense, wrath? The fact that there is an argument demonstrates that there are supporters for and protesters against! Do you think that just because there was an argument about 'nam in the 60's that the support and the protest was equal? That the ideas of pulling out and staying in were both equally as good? That's most likely (read, quite definitely) one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while. You will ALWAYS have arguments, and you will RARELY have an argument where both sides are equally valid. The statistics says that Tremulous 1.1 and "Tremulous" 1.2 have different levels of support. Also, it can be easily inferred that the development games are NOT, I repeat NOT, in any way shape or form a good or accurate representation of a public game. If the 1.1 master server goes down when 1.2 is released, there will be chaos, and the game will die. The learning curve for aliens is even more fucked up with the incredible lack of regeneration and the birth of alien base reliance. They are a pathetic race which will require proper handling to not die when assaulting human bases. Is anyone aware of why the balance issue is the way it is? It's a purely skill related balance issue, for any of you mindless punks who haven't realized. Newbies always go humans because aliens are so tough to control. Nerfing aliens was about the worst thing you can do. No one, and I repeat, no one, will want to play aliens on pub games anymore. It takes two seconds to get raped by turrets as a goon.
Two fucking seconds.
That's pathetic.
It takes two seconds to get raped by turrets as a goon.
Two fucking seconds.
That's pathetic.
Protip: Try throwing in some Hitler references too!
Funny, up to now people were complaining that the 1.2 turrets have been nerfed too much...Campers complain about the rets. If you have played as aliens, you know that the turrets do nothing on approach but will, and I mean will, kill you before you can get out of range. Attacking the human base is pretty much a kamikaze event now. They start slow but they hit harder and farther so I can't escape them. Throw in reduced regen for aliens and if you do manage to get out of the rets range, any human can gun down.
@tskuzzy: THANK YOU for the comment about the players who participate in the dev. games.
I've found that the majority of PUBLIC players merely camp more when adv goons come around because they feel the need to protect the RC/arm. Giving the aliens stronger classes quicker will only scare humans more and, thus, keep them in the base more. Sure, aliens will be able to destroy the bases, now, but that'll just lead to a shit tonne of wins and an imbalance favoring the aliens. Just throwing that out there.
When I hear barb splashes sinking my base, I go out and hunt the motherfuckers and yell at my teammates to do the same.To be fair, I've always went on the hunt and bitched at my team if they weren't as soon as I started seeing barbs flying. Unfortunately, that really doesn't do much, as most team mates don't listen, and those who would are probably hunting already.
When I hear barb splashes sinking my base, I go out and hunt the motherfuckers and yell at my teammates to do the same.Clearly you are not the "majority of public players" XD
Its quite obvious the veterans or the ones most familiar to Tremulous prefer 1.1, because they have been playing for years (Or a year, depends). "Balance" isn't about on who's preferences it is, its about if everyone (Or the majority) agrees whether the changes work or not, and I believe the devs realized thatNo
Its quite obvious the veterans or the ones most familiar to Tremulous prefer 1.1, because they have been playing for years (Or a year, depends). "Balance" isn't about on who's preferences it is, its about if everyone (Or the majority) agrees whether the changes work or not, and I believe the devs realized thatNo
Speaking for myself, I've played Tremulous for 3 years. I know the ends and the outs of damn near everything, read the source code, .h files. I've seen every trick in the book. I've played against every known player NA side that worth their salt.
It is beyond easy to sniff out changes that will tilt balance. When you play on both teams, you know what works and why. When you change things, you change the balance. These changes aren't benign and balance is usually razor thin. Some of these changes will make easy for a human player and harder for an alien. Throw in someone who's good now with the new humans and they will dominate.
Someone who is good at aliens will still be good. But the people that are middle of road in terms of skill (like most players) will not cut it on the alien team. On the human team, the average player will be better. But this isn't a one sided game.
There is no 'preference' unless you consider a one side game versus a balanced one a preference.
@ Devs of 1.2... Please, for the love of all that is hovel-shaped, stop trying to make things look and sound cool...WOAH A TURRET THAT RAPES GOON IN UNDER 3 SECS! I couldn't care less, it fucks up the gameplay. You've borked trem, as you have borked many players hearts. First you take for fucking ever to release 1.2, then when we all get to quench our anticipation, we find out what we've been waiting for sucks so much ass, that we go back to 1.1. Seriously d00ds, I'm not downloading 1.2, and I'm telling all my mates, that the devs are twats, cause they are. I don't want quicker, more retarded games. I liked 1.1, issues in 1.1 needed fixing. You fixed the issues, but you've made even more of them than you've solved.tl;dr
What I'm trying to say is, you've fucked up one of the greatest games available. I know 1.1 is free, but for fucks sake. You should be paying ME to download 1.2, cause there's no other way I'm getting it.
... and once we have a balance we all like ...
To be fair, we've been arguing against from the beginning.
... and once we have a balance we all like ...
Wishful thinking ?
I don't think the devs will start the balance testing all over because of some complaints here. After all it's their game.
If you want to influence the way the game develops, you have to contribute, that's how open source works. It doesn't mean you have to code or map or model something, but testing and giving feedback is also contributing. The 1.1 code will not disappear and if someone cares enough to actually work on it, there will be a 1.1 on 1.2 mod in a few weeks. (It doesn't need testing as it is already perfectly balanced, so it should be quick to make.)
One Question:I did, we argued about unlagged, we argued about alien regeneration, people complained about basilisks, mara zap changed about a million times, the RC used to be a weapon when you built a DCC, marked decon, etc....
Why did all of you wait until the devs were about to release 1.2, before you started freaking out?
There have been games on the dev servers for ages./me smells troll
* Hovel
o STAYS GODDAMMIT
* Hovel
o STAYS GODDAMMIT. i like glitching through map walls and i like other players doing it too. its epic awesome to glitchbuild a om in an unreachable place add a few spawns and you cant lose!!!!111
One Question:
Why did all of you wait until the devs were about to release 1.2, before you started freaking out?
There have been games on the dev servers for ages./me smells troll
as you can see it was removed for a reason the only way id like it back is if they took away the aspect that allowed people to glitch with it(granger hiding) which pretty much turns it into a useless free barricade
Hovel glitch-building has been fixed
>< just did an interclan on the dev server and it was really fun! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkz5eq-nqDQ>< just did an interclan on the dev server and it was really fun! :D
(http://cron.unvanquished.net/imgboard/src/1255804564016.jpg)
If this is already the case then ignore this post :-[done
a scared granger?
it just wastes bp
o srry wasnt thinking clearly...thxit just wastes bp
All zero points of it.
P.S.
cl_allowdownload needs to be set to 1 this time around. None of that prompting shit either. If it isnt 1, we are stuck with another ten years of ATCS.
Download are enabled by default.
What's wrong with the prompt? Over here in the UK running code on someone's computer without there permission is illegal. Would you prefer a 50-page EULA to sign away all the rights to your computer just to play?
EDIT: It'd probably be the server owner going to jail not the devs... fundamentally it's the same thing as drive-by-downloads on malware sites.
Not to mention TremX is as unbalanced as ever.. probably more than 1.1 is.
I don't seem to understand why it's illegal for Tremulous not to have auto downloading set to 1 but games like Team Fortress 2 has automatic updates automatically added in.
Whom does yur "unbalance" favor? I've been playing it on SoH's unlagged KoRX server, and it seems to me that the games are still going to the most skilled players win each game... Even when the noobs get an Adv. Tyrant or a Xael + Cloak. And having Stage-Count based on team credits earned allows for less killwhoring, since you can stage up by killing enemy structures as well.
But really, that's not even my argument here... I'm not saying KoRX is the best thing ever invented, I'm just saying that it's clearly superior to the horseshit the devs are trying to shovel on us. And if the KoR fuckwits can do better, and in a quarter of the time... + they kept the hovel. Gg.
Of course people with more skill will win. It's always like that!Hate to call you on this, but we've actually given various ideas for hovel usage.
So what really is "balanced"? Does "balanced" mean that a total newbie can whip a seven-year veteran? Does "balanced" mean that two kids who have played the same amount and have the same skill level always come to a standstill when they face each other?
All you 1.2-rage guys think that 1.1 is the best thing ever when it's obviously got it's problems and quirks. Hey, can YOU come up with a better function for the hovel? What's that? NO?! Then stfu and gtfo.
I don't seem to understand why it's illegal for Tremulous not to have auto downloading set to 1 but games like Team Fortress 2 has automatic updates automatically added in.
I am going to download a virus to your computer.
You have been informed, so it's OK right?
Amanieu's client-killer was just a few bytes as I recall. That download is going to finish faster than you can cancel it.
QVM are code. There are bugs that let them do anything they want to your PC, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.
And are you a lawyer? Are you planning to indemnify everyone in case they get sued?
I'm not a lawyer, so maybe it is legal. But I'd bet it's not and sure as hell wouldn't risk it.
QVM are code. There are bugs that let them do anything they want to your PC, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.Sure, same as maps are code.
No, not the same - maps aren't executed.
Well that's how this all started roci, was my appeal that map downloads be on by default. Khalsa or Kevlar (cant tell them apart) said that the problem is you cant tell a map from another type of pk3 until it's downloaded.
No, not the same - maps aren't executed.They contain instructions on how to render the map, how objects in the map should behave, etc. At it's basic level it's not that different from a QVM. They're both just ways of representing a series of instructions.
I am going to download a virus to your computer.
You have been informed, so it's OK right?
Well yes, although why you would accept is beyond me.
All you 1.2-rage guys think that 1.1 is the best thing ever when it's obviously got it's problems and quirks. Hey, can YOU come up with a better function for the hovel? What's that? NO?! Then stfu and gtfo.
Pseudo-lawyering aside who really gives a damn? The prompt is in. People will click yes. Seeing the prompt is the default (and actually replaces the no option).
I'd still take my hovel over the new 'cades, any day of the week.too bad u cant since they're removed!
Even if the hovel costs?
And I never saw the hovel used in real games. Probably because I play with smart people who know WTF they are doing and know it just isn't worth the build timer for a cade that only blocks tyrants.
Even if the hovel costs?
And I never saw the hovel used in real games. Probably because I play with smart people who know WTF they are doing and know it just isn't worth the build timer for a cade that only blocks tyrants.
Try leaving your closed "MG community" and playing on servers that people (other than MG) actually play on, and you'll find that the Hovel is utilized most every game, whereas barricades are not. And if by "smart people who know WTF they are doing" you meant your faildev MG Overlords, then I just had a hearty laugh at your expense.
PS: The new turrets suck ass.
I never saw the hovel used in real games.
I disagree. It was used most games because it's free. It's not like builders have a full buildtimer all the time unless you're playing UBP or some such. I think smart people will use something potentially beneficial when it is free. :)^That. It wouldn't be used if it wasn't free, 1 free barricade would be better in most cases because humans can't just jump over it.
Barricades are eminently more useful now, which made hovel useless.
Please play on the dev servers before arguing about them :)
Khalsa
In 1.1, of the hovel and the barricade, which structure was used in nearly every game, and which was almost never built? (Except by polaks who had been playingTremulous <5 minutes.) And yet, the developpers decided to nix the useful structure on their next release, and instead wasted months trying to make the barricades less shitty...
I'd still take my hovel over the new 'cades, any day of the week.
I think improving the barricade was a good idea, whats the point of a structure if its never used. Also, the hovel was only useful in certain situations. In some bases you couldn't even use it or didn't need it. The barricade is always used in bases in dev games because its so useful to a base now. Humans can jump on top of the hovel, shoot over the hovel. The only thing it was used for was a free barricade to block nades or block luci jumpers. A step backwards would be keeping to barricade the way it is and removing the hovel. That's not what happened, they improved the barricade so the hovel was no longer needed except if you wanted to glitch with it.Barricades are eminently more useful now, which made hovel useless.
Please play on the dev servers before arguing about them :)
Khalsa
I'm not a huge fan of quoting oneself, but it becomes necissary when smug morons make ill-informed posts based on their failure to read what was posted the first time. Tell you what Khalsa, I'll add 2 points to the font size, and make it red this time, just for you.In 1.1, of the hovel and the barricade, which structure was used in nearly every game, and which was almost never built? (Except by polaks who had been playingTremulous <5 minutes.) And yet, the developpers decided to nix the useful structure on their next release, and instead wasted months trying to make the barricades less shitty...
I'd still take my hovel over the new 'cades, any day of the week.
My complaint is that "the dev team" is so out of touch with how the game is being played, and how the playerbase is utilizing structures, that they went off and wasted a hell of a lot of time "improving" a structure ('cade) that was essentially a shittier version of the hovel. So now you've made 1.2 barricades almost as useful as a hovel, removed the hovel altogether, and somehow you think that's an improvement. Congratulations, you want a cookie? No. Because it's still a step backwards, even if it's only a quarter-step.
And I have been playing on your dev servers... where else would my complaints stem from. I understand you think it's okay to disengage your brain when "developping" shitty new ways to ruin the game, but please re-engage it before engaging me.
Thanks,
-Kaine
I think improving the barricade was a good idea, whats the point of a structure if its never used. Also, the hovel was only useful in certain situations. In some bases you couldn't even use it or didn't need it. The barricade is always used in bases in dev games because its so useful to a base now. Humans can jump on top of the hovel, shoot over the hovel. The only thing it was used for was a free barricade to block nades or block luci jumpers. A step backwards would be keeping to barricade the way it is and removing the hovel. That's not what happened, they improved the barricade so the hovel was no longer needed except if you wanted to glitch with it.
Ok, they improved the barricade thats why it wasn't removed. Thus making the hovel uselessI think improving the barricade was a good idea, whats the point of a structure if its never used. Also, the hovel was only useful in certain situations. In some bases you couldn't even use it or didn't need it. The barricade is always used in bases in dev games because its so useful to a base now. Humans can jump on top of the hovel, shoot over the hovel. The only thing it was used for was a free barricade to block nades or block luci jumpers. A step backwards would be keeping to barricade the way it is and removing the hovel. That's not what happened, they improved the barricade so the hovel was no longer needed except if you wanted to glitch with it.
THIS IS THE POINT. It should have been removed rather than the hovel, which I've seen used quite frequently.
YA IT WAS FREE BITCHES SO STOP THE FUCKING BITCHING ABOUT IT ALREADY OK I BET IF THE BARRICADE WAS FREE PEOPLE WOULD USE THAT BITCH IN 1.1 TOO MOTHERFUCKER.
Ok, they improved the barricade thats why it wasn't removed. Thus making the hovel uselessI think improving the barricade was a good idea, whats the point of a structure if its never used. Also, the hovel was only useful in certain situations. In some bases you couldn't even use it or didn't need it. The barricade is always used in bases in dev games because its so useful to a base now. Humans can jump on top of the hovel, shoot over the hovel. The only thing it was used for was a free barricade to block nades or block luci jumpers. A step backwards would be keeping to barricade the way it is and removing the hovel. That's not what happened, they improved the barricade so the hovel was no longer needed except if you wanted to glitch with it.
THIS IS THE POINT. It should have been removed rather than the hovel, which I've seen used quite frequently.
. . . because people usually ignore the hovel until it blocks them.
It'd be nice if the hovel were to remain, and allow for a separate spawn cue for grangers.
Just a thought.
Come to think of it, disallowing trappers being built on the floor might not be a bad idea either.
In 1.1, of the hovel and the barricade, which structure was used in nearly every game, and which was almost never built? (Except by polaks who had been playingTremulous <5 minutes.) And yet, the developpers decided to nix the useful structure on their next release, and instead wasted months trying to make the barricades less shitty...
I'd still take my hovel over the new 'cades, any day of the week.
As good as that sounds, it's probably not very viable since some maps might actually benefit from them. Perhaps a cvar could do the job, especially on ATCS-only servers?
It'd be nice if the hovel were to remain, and allow for a separate spawn cue for grangers.
Just a thought.
It'd be nice if the hovel were to remain, and allow for a separate spawn cue for grangers.
Just a thought.
THIS is the smartest fucking shit I've ever heard. Hovel can be used as a spawn, but only if you're spawning as a granger. Hell Yes.
@ everyone on blah blah barricades are better now: then they'd have to make one, free cade and it will get used, otherwise you're just going to see good builders making 4 more eggs all over a map. Still, it would be worse than a hovel, as taller is not better, but worse.
@ the mod who moved this topic, it may be "off topic" from what the original topic was (it isn't) but it certainly isn't off topic to tremulous, and belongs if nothing else in the feedback forum.
It'd be nice if the hovel were to remain, and allow for a separate spawn cue for grangers.
Just a thought.
THIS is the smartest fucking shit I've ever heard. Hovel can be used as a spawn, but only if you're spawning as a granger. Hell Yes.
@ everyone on blah blah barricades are better now: then they'd have to make one, free cade and it will get used, otherwise you're just going to see good builders making 4 more eggs all over a map. Still, it would be worse than a hovel, as taller is not better, but worse.
@ the mod who moved this topic, it may be "off topic" from what the original topic was (it isn't) but it certainly isn't off topic to tremulous, and belongs if nothing else in the feedback forum.
These are pretty good ideas me think.
@ everyone on blah blah barricades are better now: then they'd have to make one, free cade and it will get used, otherwise you're just going to see good builders making 4 more eggs all over a map. Still, it would be worse than a hovel, as taller is not better, but worse.Instead of getting one free blocking structure (hovel) builders now have a choice whether they want to spend their money on a barricade or something else.
Good, so all I have to do is find your one hovel, kill it and then no more building for the entire game!Well, Winnie, since you have to spawn as a granger from an egg at some point, logic should tell you that it would serve only as a separate que when it's alive.
Good, so all I have to do is find your one hovel, kill it and then no more building for the entire game!Well, Winnie, since you have to spawn as a granger from an egg at some point, logic should tell you that it would serve only as a separate que when it's alive.
I don't build much in public games. Something to do with wanting a stage increase before the rest of the team feeds the opponents.
All the same, the few times I do build (and during clan matches) I always utilize the hovel. Why?. . . because people usually ignore the hovel until it blocks them.
This is the key phrase. People ignore the hovel. Why? The hovel does no damage. The hitbox isn't large enough to block shots over it or to prevent humans from jumping on top of it. So what good is it?
The basic premise of an alien base in 1.1 is to delay and distract humans so aliens can finish them off quickly and easily. Properly placed, the hovel can 1) deny access to an alcove to prevent certain firing paths, 2) retard the ability of luci-jumpers, 3) be placed next to a path so the creep slows passing humans, 4) it's a hiding place for a granger to heal in in between spits, and 4) it acts as a barricade on narrow ramps. If a human does shoot it, it has more hitpoints than any other structure besides the overmind and it delays them.
Even with the changes made in 1.2, the hovel is still useful.
The only reason I downloaded Tremulous was because it had ahovelgranger in it. I think it's the same for everyone.
Then it's useless.Yeah, just like eggs that also provide spawning only when alive, right?
still sounds useless, lol..Then it's useless.Yeah, just like eggs that also provide spawning only when alive, right?
Good god, dude. When it's up, it allows grangers to spawn from it rather than eggs. When it's dead (or not yet built), they spawn from eggs. Chill.
Just remember that novelty is different from usefulness.
And shame on the mod who moved the topic. This is hardly Off-Topic material, even if not fully suited to where it originally was..My apologies to whomever that was for overriding the decision, but I've moved this to feedback.
I think I'd agree with you, keep it, make it worth a few bp, everyone will be happy.Just remember that novelty is different from usefulness.
Winnie, you managed to ignore every point I was trying to make. Sure, other structures could do all four of those, but the hovel is the only structure that is routinely ignored and allowed to do all four of those things in peace. The hovel has its own place in building. I didn't use it simply because it is a free but lesser replacement of something else. Some maps even call for 'cades in a few layouts.
If you must complain that people only used it because it was free, then make it 4 bp, like the repeaters. Then people can use it as they'd like.
And shame on the mod who moved the topic. This is hardly Off-Topic material, even if not fully suited to where it originally was..
Really?
Because I never noticed that(and I pay a fair bit of attention to these forums...)
The only reason I downloaded Tremulous was because it had a[/quote]hovelgranger in it. I think it's the same for everyone.
There was a year of asking for ideas as to what it could do.
No one came up with anything.
Well I remember I think norf having asked for hovel ideas a long time ago.You mean that long-ago-time when nobody with decent opinions used the forums?
Well I remember I think norf having asked for hovel ideas a long time ago.
it uses quake3's engine,
Otherwise, you aren't free to make any sort of comment about what would be cool. ::)
Otherwise, you aren't free to make any sort of comment about what would be cool. ::)
Comments are welcome. The people who do code it are also welcome to completely ignore comments and code what they wish, just as anyone would code what they wish.
Incidentally, not being a coder, they are welcome to completely ignore my comments as well, and I am then welcome to complain about how no one will code what I expressly want them to code.
Really, when someone says "then go code it", thats what they mean. Comment all you want, but if no one who codes wishes to code it, it will never be done. Best bet is to code it yourself :)
Fwiw, I miss the mdriver trails we had on mgdev for a bit.
Yeah, I liked the rail MD.Bring it back plz.
BasiliskSo they changes this after all, didn't they?
both
slash range reduced 96 -> 64
grab range increased 64 -> 96
jump magnitude increased 270 -> 310
silent footsteps
grabs no longer affects turrets
The grabbing doesn't work, but the running circles does. You can even do it to a single turret now.Wait, what? ??? How is circling a single turret new?
Ive dretched turrets by running in circles many times in 1.1? so now its just easy-erDretches can't hurt turrets in 1.2
Dretching turrets takes a bit longer on 1.2 though...
Fine, you can do it easily now.
In 1.1 it was a total bitch to do without getting shot up. Now it's trivial and the turret never fires a shot.
So you are saying tyrant is the easiest class for you to kill alone with shotty, but it's also capable of killing all humans?
Lightmap should have been cheat protected in 1.1 even, it does give an advantage.
3. Adv goon to s2 didn't doesn't do shit for camping.And if they have a tyrant in the hall, then it's S3 and so discussing the Adv Goon is pointless.
Humans now just stand by the doors, away from their base. Of course, they can't go out into the hall because of tyrants with charge. Forced camping l0l0l0l.
After having played 1.2 for a few days, i have to say, it hasn't been messed up, so to speak, but everything that made tremulous tremulous has been shifted to the point of it being a new game that i don't like. Obviously my opinion will be discounted instantly because it's only the opinion of one person, but i would like to put it out there.
After having played 1.2 for a few days, i have to say, it hasn't been messed up, so to speak, but everything that made tremulous tremulous has been shifted to the point of it being a new game that i don't like. Obviously my opinion will be discounted instantly because it's only the opinion of one person, but i would like to put it out there.
After having played 1.2 for a few days, i have to say, it hasn't been messed up, so to speak, but everything that made tremulous tremulous has been shifted to the point of it being a new game that i don't like. Obviously my opinion will be discounted instantly because it's only the opinion of one person, but i would like to put it out there.
It's the opinion of at least two.
Four. Except, I like 1.2 (MOSTLY) but it's not Tremulous anymore.After having played 1.2 for a few days, i have to say, it hasn't been messed up, so to speak, but everything that made tremulous tremulous has been shifted to the point of it being a new game that i don't like. Obviously my opinion will be discounted instantly because it's only the opinion of one person, but i would like to put it out there.
It's the opinion of at least two.
Make that three. This about sums up what many of us have been saying.
Four. Except, I like 1.2 (MOSTLY) but it's not Tremulous 1.1 anymore.
1.2 is about as much 1.1 as Deus Ex: Invisible War is Deus Ex. I pray you get the reference. If not, they're different. -.- So different, in fact, that they can be seen as completely different games with (oddly enough) similar titles.Four. Except, I like 1.2 (MOSTLY) but it's not Tremulous 1.1 anymore.
Fixed...?
1.2 is about as much 1.1 as Deus Ex: Invisible War is Deus Ex. I pray you get the reference. If not, they're different. -.- So different, in fact, that they can be seen as completely different games with (oddly enough) similar titles.