Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Critters on February 16, 2008, 01:54:29 am
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Let me tell you...Im not. (not trying to be a party pooper)
Just by playing on the MG test server for 2 days i hate 1.2 (though i was really pumped for it)
I signed up for their forum. And posted in the feedback thread, that the turrets move to slow.
They said that is how it is going to be. It will "prevent" camping.......
LOL
Hummies camp becuase they get killed in outside of base. Now they made the turrets painfily slow, therefor lettng you get killed not only outside base but also inside.
When i said that they prettey much said go away...and so i did.
I check back at the forum. For just looking and i saw that a few people did agree with me. The the head guy dude. Just seemed to not see them.
I really hope 1.2 is more then just a few quick fixes :(. I mean new aliens and weapons.
but then they would have to call it 2.0 ???
I love tremulous.
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I really hope 1.2 is more then just a few quick fixes :(. I mean new aliens and weapons.
It isn't.
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Oh, cool, a complaint about one change without any notion of the giant list of others that counterbalance it.
Thanks for this informative misinformation thread. We didn't have enough of them already.
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I agree that the slow turrets are complete BS. Can't stand playing with them if i'm on the humans team. Especially if i'm trying to repair the base. I like the not camping (because you don't have a base) but i've seen slow turrets rendered useless by skilled players way to many times to make me think its a good solution to camping.
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It's true, I was playing by my self on the server and could take out all turrets as a basi.
And yes I am exsited for 1.2
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Those turrets sure are BS.
Only way they can become effective is giving them nasty weapon like mdriver. ^^
But I guess that would make them miniature obelisk from C&C. *Charging sound* *pewwwwwwww....." Burn GDI scum!
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they already do roughly twice as much damage as a mass driver
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But I like mass driver. :3
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tesla's anyone?
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they already do roughly twice as much damage as a mass driver
What difference does it make if its slow?
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Oh my... Talking about C&C obelisks makes me want one in trem. Or super tesla that works similar to red alert teslas.
Ok... just ignore that.
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they already do roughly twice as much damage as a mass driver
What difference does it make if its slow?
You die really fast. Not just a bit fast, but really fast. All you people whining about the 'new' turrets clearly have yet to play a normal game of Tremulous with them.
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they already do roughly twice as much damage as a mass driver
What difference does it make if its slow?
You die really fast. Not just a bit fast, but really fast. All you people whining about the 'new' turrets clearly have yet to play a normal game of Tremulous with them.
I'm not whining, I'm just asking.
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If you build a 1.1 style base, your are doomed. The dretches will just walk in.
If however, you build a 1.2 style base, I have seen plenty that can't be touched by anything at s1 short of a goon suicide.
You need to build differently.
You also need to play a few proper games on both sides before we listen to you. There are a *lot* of changes.
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Wow, the OP played for two days and all he could talk about was the slow turrets. Makes me think: Hrm, n00b Human, camps turrets, hasn't thought of other strategies, let alone adjusting to new conditions, posts a new thread with a sloppy opening post about the first thing a n00b would notice, didn't say anything about playing as an Alien (just how hard it was to camp the turrets, not how easy it was to get past them), gave it a whole two days, and came here to post his gripes, without using the "search" feature. I don't know David, this person sounds like a valuable beta-tester to me; you could be passing up the opportunity to listen to him whine for several months. ::)
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Everyone wants to get rid of cons before thinking about complimenting.
I think many neat features are in the version by mg but I honestly feel sorry for the fella who coded the new stuff on those turrets.
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Everyone wants to get rid of cons before thinking about complimenting.
I think many neat features are in the version by mg but I honestly feel sorry for the fella who coded the new stuff on those turrets.
Why feel sorry? He did what is needed, I personally think that once people have adapted to 1.2, they'll be thankful. Well, if the game is balanced that is.
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Everyone wants to get rid of cons before thinking about complimenting.
Talking about cons is all right if you have more than two days to back it up, and your opinions aren't those of a complete n00b (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4528;sa=showPosts).
Now your opinion, whitebear, I would be interested in. And I'm sure the new turrets are the most noticeable thing about 1.2. But I cannot and will not give a flying crap about what this particular OP has to say until he shows that he knows what he's talking about, which he can't, since he so obviously doesn't. Two whole days to say "i hate 1.2"? What a show of endurance! How much time he has put in to thoroughly review the months and months of work done by volunteers! He must be tired from all that turret camping and endless feeding. Yes, and a whole seven posts on the forum, each more inane than the last. Sorry, but he's a bonehead, and comments by more respected members who may agree with his "analysis" notwithstanding, I rate him a complete n00b who should just prove his worth to the community by deleting this nonsense.
Sorry, Caveman wasn't in today, so i thought I'd fill in. ;D
By the way, whitebear, welcome back. Where'd ya go?
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Well, I think 1.2 will be fun if they fix the fixes. if you know what i mean. I gess 1.2 is prettey good. But they have to learn to take in the players' feedback
BTW im no Noob.
Oh and I love C&C i have all of them.
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In order to balance a game, you either need professional playtesters to play it for some hours and give a report, or you get the average joes to play the game for a long time and gather statistics on the wins/losses and various details about those games played (team sizes, loss margin, each team's stage/kills, etc). Since nobody has the money to hire professional playtesters to play some rounds of Tremulous and give a report, the latter option is the one used.
You say you played for two days. Long before MGDev even existed, there was trem.tjw.org with most of the same changes (at the very least, the turrets had been changed long before MGDev). Many games were played there, and statistics gathered. In the eyes of those tweaking variables to balance the game better, the turrets were changed to the way they are now for the greater good of the game.
While input from people is certainly valid, and I'm sure welcomed, someone who has "played for two days" doesn't have nearly the experience as games that had been running for months with a large sampling of varied players - unless you happen to be a professional playtester and left that part out of your post :>
You say "Hummies camp becuase they get killed in outside of base. Now they made the turrets painfily slow, therefor lettng you get killed not only outside base but also inside." How is this any different than aliens? If I'm a dretch or a granger, and I'm camping in the alien base, a human can walk to the nearest entrance and shoot me far from the range of any defensive structures. I could be sitting on a field of acids, and still get shot and killed. Now, a human can be sitting on a field of turrets, and a skilled dretch can come in and eat him before the turrets can lock on. Even without weeks of gathering stats on games played, that sounds more balanced to me. If you're worried about builders getting killed, take a page from the alien playbook - keep a somewhat strong player in the base with you while you build, to help out the defensive structures and try to prevent the builder from becoming an easy target.
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BTW im no Noob.
phail (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7408.0;topicseen)
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In order to balance a game, you either need professional playtesters to play it for some hours and give a report, or you get the average joes to play the game for a long time and gather statistics on the wins/losses and various details about those games played (team sizes, loss margin, each team's stage/kills, etc). Since nobody has the money to hire professional playtesters to play some rounds of Tremulous and give a report, the latter option is the one used.
You say you played for two days. Long before MGDev even existed, there was trem.tjw.org with most of the same changes (at the very least, the turrets had been changed long before MGDev). Many games were played there, and statistics gathered. In the eyes of those tweaking variables to balance the game better, the turrets were changed to the way they are now for the greater good of the game.
While input from people is certainly valid, and I'm sure welcomed, someone who has "played for two days" doesn't have nearly the experience as games that had been running for months with a large sampling of varied players - unless you happen to be a professional playtester and left that part out of your post :>
You say "Hummies camp becuase they get killed in outside of base. Now they made the turrets painfily slow, therefor lettng you get killed not only outside base but also inside." How is this any different than aliens? If I'm a dretch or a granger, and I'm camping in the alien base, a human can walk to the nearest entrance and shoot me far from the range of any defensive structures. I could be sitting on a field of acids, and still get shot and killed. Now, a human can be sitting on a field of turrets, and a skilled dretch can come in and eat him before the turrets can lock on. Even without weeks of gathering stats on games played, that sounds more balanced to me. If you're worried about builders getting killed, take a page from the alien playbook - keep a somewhat strong player in the base with you while you build, to help out the defensive structures and try to prevent the builder from becoming an easy target.
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Ok let me clear things up.....2 day ON THE MG test server.
For me i have been playing trem for 2 years.
I think anyone with in playing for 1 day can see aliens mostly always win. Slowing turrets help with the matter. They did though make them more powerful tho.
BTW i can easly take out a turret with a drentch in 1.1 nevermind 1.2.
There are lots of details i like about 1.2. Like the battle suits. Thy really make you taller now. From the wearer's point of view. And i also like the text and when it say you have caps on.
I find there is no point in making every one super pumped for 1.2. It is just a simple update. If it was like 2.0 or somthing...then i can undersand. I really hope the makers of trem are reading this.
Anyway, over all it is pretty good. But it is over rated. It will be nice for when it comes out. But they should at least make it easyer for those poor hummies
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I suggest you just keep playing 1.1.0 forever, saves us a lot of irrelevant and unfounded whining too.
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i hate 1.2
I gess 1.2 is prettey good.
There are lots of details i like about 1.2.
??? ::) :-\
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i hate 1.2
I gess 1.2 is prettey good.
There are lots of details i like about 1.2.
??? ::) :-\
His unfounded whining about the turrets, which are way more useful in 1.2 than they are in 1.1.
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after 7-8 years of developement, the programmers could make a turret what even Lava Croft can kill with a dretch. :-D
btw i've seen smart things on dev server, and i like it. ofc i didnT see everything but i don't really like the HP changes, as basilisks and tyrants are more vulnerable.
basilisks are not used so often at 1.1, i think there will be huge a gap between old and new players about this class.
as i heard they are the new healers (instead of tyrants) of the alien race, but plz consider that 80% of the recent tremulous players doN't know that tyrants are having healing aura, and they can't be healed by boosters.
a proper maunal coud fix that ofc, and I know that Norf is working on it, though i beleive the community should make a youtube manual to make the game basics understandable very quick.
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basi hp was nerfed because they were far too strong
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I'd be interested how did you decide what is "too strong". what kind of statistics/measurements or... individual reports did you use? MG dev stats?
[i as one thinks that basilisks are ofc very strong at 1vs1, but they are almost completely usless against organised groups of humans.]
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I admit that I should play some more on the dev server my self If I want to adapt to the great new coding MG devs have written for bunch of thrash such as myself to enjoy. I hope to see ya all online. ^^
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i hate 1.2
I gess 1.2 is prettey good.
There are lots of details i like about 1.2.
??? ::) :-\
LOL
oops
well there you go my stupidity at work...
anyway. What they should really do is make it ezer for himmies. Insted of making 1.2 they need to make 2.0...new weapons, aliens...maybe car and trucks for hummies. Just to make it more fair. Then you can also add the 1.2 fixes into 2.0. That would have been the smarter idea. And that would be a reason to be pumped
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i say Critter is cute, isn't he? :-)
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*nods*
Where are our UFOs?
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....lol
anyway..... Is this the end of my topic?
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Don't think so... We most likely entertain our selfs by flaming your post for few days or so.
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anyway. What they should really do is make it ezer for himmies. Insted of making 1.2 they need to make 2.0...new weapons, aliens...maybe car and trucks for hummies. Just to make it more fair. Then you can also add the 1.2 fixes into 2.0. That would have been the smarter idea. And that would be a reason to be pumped
I think you just dismissed yourself.
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anyway. What they should really do is make it ezer for himmies. Insted of making 1.2 they need to make 2.0...new weapons, aliens...maybe car and trucks for hummies. Just to make it more fair. Then you can also add the 1.2 fixes into 2.0. That would have been the smarter idea. And that would be a reason to be pumped
I think you just dismissed yourself.
Critters pretty much went from n00b to idiot right there in that one post, didn't he? ::) :P :laugh:
Don't think so... We most likely entertain our selfs by flaming your post for few days or so.
Damn straight.
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Don't think so... We most likely entertain our selfs by flaming your post for few days or so.
and then i come to defend the innocent, saying:
OMFGH4XDONTFL4M3T3HN00BASU'RN00BURSELFOR4TL34STUW3R3=D0NTTR0LLH1MFFS!
EDIT: I just realised that we are really work like this... so... Lava, YOU suck it down XD
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You need to stop focussing on me, I'm starting to blush.
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you're such a cute and predictable symbol of an elite online moron that i feel a must to mention you in every single posts of mine, i am sorry but it's a status of yours, nothing personal.
the positive side of this is that you are always providing new english words that i've never heard before, so I'm forced to use online dictionaries day by day - therefore i can train my otherwise poor english knowledge.
the on-topic side of this is the fact that people are used to forget that they were once younger than they actually are.
to scourge the weak is not a nice thing.
even on the internet.
edit before edit: typo.
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tesla's anyone?
Acctually, I do like that feature...
1.1 made teslas crap, but if they don't rely on the DC then they would be more useful.
I always thought that a mixture of rets and teslas was a good idea, but once the dc goes down, your stuffed.
Perhaps if they made it so that teslas only required the DC to be built, but could function without it.
Also, as was mentioned somewhere else, I think that the research idea is a really good one, but I think keep the stages. You know, like you can research things in s1, then more things in s2 and then the same for s3.
Also, S4 FTW!!! :D
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And what would you add to s4? A machine gun that does 1000 dps and a Rant that can walk through walls?
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drentch
Oh Critters, you can drentch me all day :D
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:p
well this topic when the wrongway............
anyway......
yea.....S4 would be cool but rants through walls? intersting.
So i think im done with this topic....you guys can flame each other and ill go about my stuff :)
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I think people in Hungary need to find a hobby besides me.
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If you build a 1.1 style base, your are doomed. The dretches will just walk in.
If however, you build a 1.2 style base, I have seen plenty that can't be touched by anything at s1 short of a goon suicide.
You need to build differently.
You also need to play a few proper games on both sides before we listen to you. There are a *lot* of changes.
Hrm, I was wondering if you might have a few tips on what a 1.2 base looks like. Do you have any screenies? Is there a new thread about it I wonder.
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in general you want defenses spread out with turrets covering each other, teslas are useful for keeping maras/dretches out, and in general you want to avoid camping at all costs because no amount of builders can keep up with 2 +goons sniping your base.
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and in general you want to avoid camping at all costs because no amount of builders can keep up with 2 +goons sniping your base.
/me thinks that n00bs will try to camp more if +goons are sniping.
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Well they wont be camping for long.
Either kill the goon, or die.
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Slow turrets? Have you been in alien side? If there is no human on humans base, you can pretty much solo all turrets. If there is 1 guy, its damn had to do same damage - if you get trapped, boom, you are dead. Turrets dont make slow damage at all times, they do now like instant kill. 150 hp to 0 in half a second if you dont move, thats reality and humans should use it. At s1 and s2, human should block alien movement, turrets do the rest.
Where i can find list of differences between trem 1.1 and 1.2?
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And what would you add to s4? A machine gun that does 1000 dps and a Rant that can walk through walls?
Duh...
Jeez...
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In-game change log can be found from esc menu.
Ones that aren't yet documented into it can be found here (http://svn.mercenariesguild.net/log.php?repname=MG+Development+Repository&path=&rev=0&sc=0&isdir=1).
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Well they wont be camping for long.
Either kill the goon, or die.
And respawn again..
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in general you want defenses spread out with turrets covering each other, teslas are useful for keeping maras/dretches out, and in general you want to avoid camping at all costs because no amount of builders can keep up with 2 +goons sniping your base.
Well they wont be camping for long.
Either kill the goon, or die.
Slow turrets? Have you been in alien side? If there is no human on humans base, you can pretty much solo all turrets. If there is 1 guy, its damn had to do same damage - if you get trapped, boom, you are dead. Turrets dont make slow damage at all times, they do now like instant kill. 150 hp to 0 in half a second if you dont move, thats reality and humans should use it. At s1 and s2, human should block alien movement, turrets do the rest.
Thanks for actual information as to how you are adapting, as opposed to useless whining about something which easily could have been considered a flaw in 1.1 (that is, how amazingly easy and boring the turrets were to camp). It was bound to get changed, and I care more about how to deal with it, than what the average Nexuiz player (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4528) thinks about it.
Cheers!
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Well they wont be camping for long.
Either kill the goon, or die.
And respawn again..
I meant 'die' as in, game over, you lose, your base got eaten.
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in general you want defenses spread out with turrets covering each other, teslas are useful for keeping maras/dretches out, and in general you want to avoid camping at all costs because no amount of builders can keep up with 2 +goons sniping your base.
Well they wont be camping for long.
Either kill the goon, or die.
Slow turrets? Have you been in alien side? If there is no human on humans base, you can pretty much solo all turrets. If there is 1 guy, its damn had to do same damage - if you get trapped, boom, you are dead. Turrets dont make slow damage at all times, they do now like instant kill. 150 hp to 0 in half a second if you dont move, thats reality and humans should use it. At s1 and s2, human should block alien movement, turrets do the rest.
Thanks for actual information as to how you are adapting, as opposed to useless whining about something which easily could have been considered a flaw in 1.1 (that is, how amazingly easy and boring the turrets were to camp). It was bound to get changed, and I care more about how to deal with it, than what the average Nexuiz player (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4528) thinks about it.
Cheers!
i love that game. It is such a spin off of ut 2004 tho....I play it all the time. So i gess that counts me as an average Nexuiz player .....huh
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Yes, that would be you (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4528).
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I heard a while ago that in 1.2 Teslas are available without the DC, but that the DC allows for self repairing and a few extra additions. Is this true?
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Yup. Teslas are self-sustaining, and DC provides structure repair.
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Aliens healing slower away from the base is is like a giant compared to rets shooting with delay. Don't quote me on this, but I think dretches can't kill bulidings anymore.
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Don't quote me on this, but I think dretches can't kill bulidings anymore.
dretches can't kill defensive structures after they have finished building (it was discovered fairly quickly that dretches could take down human baseses with relative ease), they can however destroy all structures that are still building, making them dangerous during base moves.
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Yes, that would be you (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4528).
wait...i don't get it......what?
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As fun as I found taking down human bases with dretches, I do think it's wise to stop it from happening. Since aliens can swarm all the corners of the map at the start, whereas humans are restricted to defending each other in tight groups (when played tactically) it's fair that only they should have the ability (and incentive) to attack the alien base at the start (when evos and credits are low or zero).
This is fair because the aliens can still focus on killing their attackers for points (and thus the ability to attack their base). Mainly, rushing was always easier, swifter and more hard hitting as alien against human and so left a severe lack of balance in the initial game.
EDIT: This, I will mention, is one of few changes I completely agree with so far. I've yet to be persuaded about others such as the new decon system, the new luci and so on.
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I'm not exsited because Trem 1.2 will got Unlagged...
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You say something ezra (hi and welcome back btw)..., and i just realised it yesterday.
i played 1 vs 1 (only dretch vs rifle for frags) with a guy on the European dev server, and despite the slow regeneration rate and the minus 5 hp of the dretch, we both won with the alien side.
just some minutes earlier i mass drived mid-air dretches on a 1.1 server, so i guess there was not much problem with our aim (somewhere around average).
so, aiming was strange a bit, and we didn'T lag at all (both 50-60 ping). i didn'T feel this difference at the USA server and my lag was smoothed there, but the lowping-elitist european players would lose their swiftness maybe if this unlagged mode would stay.
but ofc it requires further tests, if u (anyone) see me in-game let's go and practice there to see.
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I'm not exsited because Trem 1.2 will got Unlagged...
Which you can easily turn off, so your argument is flawed.
@OPTIMUS: The Euro MGdev server has unlagged turned off.
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hehe, so I wonder then if it's 'ON' on the MG dev EU actually :-D
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hehe, so I wonder then if it's 'ON' on the MG dev EU actually :-D
I do not compute.
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oh, sry, i didn't see it at first, now i was surprised it wasn't an [EDIT].
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@OPTIMUS: The Euro MGdev server has unlagged turned off.
I didn't know that.
Doesn't make any sense though. Several of the weapons and classes have been rebalanced because of unlagged, e.g. the chaingun is less powerful, the tyrant's claw length and marauder's claw width have been reduced.
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I'm hearing a lot of people saying changes have been made because of deconning; camping; spamming; feeding; lagging. I for one hope these aren't the actual reasons for the proposed gameplay changes.
To remove deconning
[1]Clever but drastic: Remove the base building ability.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Combine deconning with building, such that deconners are forced to only temporarily disrupt (like they always did) and as a result make base moving stupidly easy. [We're picking this?]
[3]Sensible alternative: Don't play with deconners or learn how to deal with them.
To remove camping
[1]Clever but drastic: Remove the base element.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Make the base less safe to stick around. [Are we going with that one?]
[3]Sensible alternative: Don't play with campers or learn how to deal with them.
To remove spamming
[1]Clever but drastic: Remove the shooting feature.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Turn all weapons into mass drivers (exaggeration) by speeding up projectiles and/or lengthening reload times. [Is this what we choose?]
[3]Sensible alternative: Don't play with spammers or learn how to deal with them.
To remove feeding
[1]Clever but drastic: Remove the team points system.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Make all weapons so easy to use that your basic noob will have no choice but to own with them. [shall I tick this one?]
[3]Sensible alternative: Don't play with feeders or learn how to deal with them.
To remove lagging
[1]Clever but drastic: Remove the real-time aspect.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Give the lagging party the benefit of the doubt, so that not just them but all have a distorted perspective [unlagged anyone?]
[3]Sensible alternative: Don't play with laggers or learn how to deal with them.
In general
[1]Clever but drastic: Turn tremulous into something else entirely.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Remove a characteristic of the game that people can't be bothered to adapt to.
[3]Sensible alternative: Take it as a challenge and live with it.
[1] Can be good but would go against a lot of progress
[2] Can be good too, but screws with an already loved game
[3] I'm currently in favour of as it has no chance of adding unfamiliar problems.
Better the devil you know.
EDIT: Thanks for spell checking the topic title. Now how about changing 'for' to 'about'.
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[3]Sensible alternative: Take it as a challenge and live with it.
That's the most important thing about Trem. Actully nevermind just not for trem but for all games. There are way too may Flamers and Griefing in video games. If you lose big deal Live With It.
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Nux+Slayer just owned the developement team <.<
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If you say so.
I think all nux did was show his total lack of knowledge of what's been / being done
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but he is right that the game that many guys were almost addicted to, is going to change. safer moving, lower hp aliens, optimizing for unlagged... theese features will make the gema easier for new players ( i guess a big part of the changes are aiming this ), but the old ones will have to face that all they achieved are turning to be doubtfully effective in the next release ;-)
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If they do release 1.2 big deal. Some people may even make a classic 1.1 Mod. But even if 1.2 does release. We will just learn to get good at it and play 1.2 like 1.1.
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Not to be a party pooper but i don't this that is going to happen. Even as good as i am with alien, now it is way to easy, way too easy. I used to be the best hummie but now im not. I still know how to build a base tho. With 1.2 no matter how many turrets you have they don't shoot really.
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Not to be a party pooper but i don't this that is going to happen. Even as good as i am with alien, now it is way to easy, way too easy. I used to be the best hummie but now im not. I still know how to build a base tho. With 1.2 no matter how many turrets you have they don't shoot really.
that just means that you don't know how to build.
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*nods*
Those turrets can be made deadly or they can be wasted by using trem 1.1 common base layouts.
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this is how to get rid of camping keep 1.1 turrets but make them sometimes shoot humans in the base this way camping is suicide. i cant mod but if you did that the camping problem would be fixed. Plus i cant stand the speed of lusi's in 1.2 they are even when they are base rushing but when they camping humans are invisible. i really liked lusi's as humans and as aliens but in 1.2 they are just a noob weapon.
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Uhh, you might be thinking of Tremx with those invisible humans.
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If you say so.
I think all nux did was show his total lack of knowledge of what's been / being done
All I did was give possible remedies to these key problems. In doing so I was suggesting that any minor change (a change which doesn't break a core aspect of the game) is just as likely to cause new problems as it is to alleviate old ones. I give the view that familiar problems are preferable to new ones.
In all of this, I've not said that these are the actual reasons for the changes. Only that I hope they aren't.
So how can this be an indication that I know nothing about what has been/is being done? Maybe you could tell me these aren't the reasons for any changes. If deconning, camping, spamming, feeding or lagging have been reasons for changes, would you give me a picture of what has been changed and how it solves the problem?
If on the other hand you just feel like professing ignorance on my part with no detail as to how you came to that conclusion, perhaps you'd be better off stewing in your own private enlightenment.
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Well Nux, you just indirectly called everyone working on the 1.2 changes foolish. Are you now going to be surprised when they don't speak to you in a thoughtful manner, when you haven't choosen to do so?
A lack of common civility is really lacking on these boards. Can't we all just get along? :P
Incidently, people blow all of this out of proportion. Auto HTTP downloads is what's important.
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I'd argue that I've been quite thoughtful in what I've said. The 'foolish' description is a straight forward way of expressing my distaste for it. If I had ONLY stated that it were foolish, I'd be giving no better an argument than the response I've had. Yet I haven't only stated it; I've given reasons and explored alternatives which can be commented upon.
Now, what interests me is that you've inadvertently answered my question. By taking offence to the 'foolish' option it seems to me that [2] must be the choice you're going with. So long as you're seeing everything in it's proper context, am I to understand these ARE the reasons for the changes you have made?
Please understand that I've all the willingness in the world to talk about this rationally and civilly. I do agree with some changes and look forward to seeing the development team make an even greater game out of it.
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Some of the more wrong things you said:
Make the base less safe to stick around. [Are we going with that one?]
Its easier to take a 1.1 base, but build 1.2 style and its just as strong. Standing on a turret like a retard will get you killed, but thats a good change IMO.
Turn all weapons into mass drivers (exaggeration) by speeding up projectiles and/or lengthening reload times. [Is this what we choose?]
If all = lucy, then sure.
Make all weapons so easy to use that your basic noob will have no choice but to own with them. [shall I tick this one?]
Two teams. 'Own' is, I assume, a relitive term. Do the math.
Give the lagging party the benefit of the doubt, so that not just them but all have a distorted perspective [unlagged anyone?]
eh?
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Some of the more wrong things you said:
Make the base less safe to stick around. [Are we going with that one?]
Its easier to take a 1.1 base, but build 1.2 style and its just as strong. Standing on a turret like a retard will get you killed, but thats a good change IMO.
Turn all weapons into mass drivers (exaggeration) by speeding up projectiles and/or lengthening reload times. [Is this what we choose?]
If all = lucy, then sure.
Make all weapons so easy to use that your basic noob will have no choice but to own with them. [shall I tick this one?]
Two teams. 'Own' is, I assume, a relitive term. Do the math.
Give the lagging party the benefit of the doubt, so that not just them but all have a distorted perspective [unlagged anyone?]
eh?
Well firstly I'd like to thank you for addressing my points in detail.
Its easier to take a 1.1 base, but build 1.2 style and its just as strong. Standing on a turret like a retard will get you killed, but thats a good change IMO.
Does this mean the base is safe, but the people in it aren't? (relatively speaking)
I'd argue that the base being dangerous to aliens at all is cause for camping it. The only disadvantage I see to staying in the base is the difficulty in moving around (you can't dodge as easily). Yet it is the very people who can't dodge anyway who usually choose to camp. Also, given the new optimal base layout (spread out) there is more space to dodge in (for the people who can) and since they used to leave the base because it was too cramped now have less incentive to leave it.
I propose that the camping problem is a natural consequence of having a race that doesn't have ranged attacks versus a race that does and also has a base to use the ranged attacks from.
If all = lucy, then sure.
I said 'all' because you can still spam with other weapons. It's just not as easy. I said 'exaggeration' after all.
As for the sped up luci, when I used it I was astonished by how damn easy it was to kill things with it. I think you've truly made the devil cannon and this is not the devil I know. NOT a welcome change.
Two teams. 'Own' is, I assume, a relitive term. Do the math.
How about I use an extreme example to illustrate this point. Imagine a game where the only weapon was a button that, when pressed, kills any enemy you like instantly. In this example you might note that the chance of winning or losing a game is 50/50. That sounds fair.
Of course it isn't fun at all. I propose that the fun in a game is the development of skill in the use of tools in the game. I feel as though there is a balance to be struck between how easy they are to pick up for starters, and how much room there is for improvement. Tremulous guns are already quite easy to use for beginners. I don't think they need to be any easier.
eh?
That's just a complaint about the use of unlagged. I snuck that in there for personal reasons. You may ignore it as it's a subject that's been talked to death. Suffice to say, it's a good thing for people who aren't me.
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Sorry, I'll speak more directly. Someone disagreeing with you does not make them foolish. Thinking it does makes you foolish.
Notice I said everyone working on 1.2. I am not working on 1.2. Oh gawd the assumptions...
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I described the [2] solution as foolish. If you don't think the [2] solution is foolish, that doesn't make you a fool. If you have a problem with me calling it foolish then explain to me why it isn't.
Please don't side track the discussion. I could take your offence to the rather soft term 'foolish' to mean you're sensitive to the subject of my post.
Let me state here and now that to take part in this discussion and to oppose me in my views does not make you a fool. I'd be happy to withdraw the use of the term 'foolish' and replace it with 'unfavourable' or 'Choice I personally have little faith in'. This though would still be a phrasing that you may oppose and might like to focus on discussing while side stepping the topic at hand.
I admit I thought you were working on 1.2. I didn't however say you were in my post. I only proposed that you were going with that choice, to mean 'the choice you'd pick' and you may very well know of the reasons for the 1.2 changes better than I do. If someone who IS working on 1.2 could join in I'd appreciate it.
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I described the [2] solution as foolish. If you don't think the [2] solution is foolish, that doesn't make you a fool. If you have a problem with me calling it foolish then explain to me why it isn't.
why don't you tell us in detail how come it is so foolish? You are not the kind of person I would gladly waste my time discussing how foolish is it to extend some feature to solve problems around it.
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'how come it is so foolish?'?
Which 'it' are we referring to? In each of the 'unfavourable' (as I said I would phrase it from now on) options I gave hints as to what problem it might cause.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Combine deconning with building, such that deconners are forced to only temporarily disrupt (like they always did) and as a result make base moving stupidly easy. [We're picking this?]
This, I thought, was clear enough. The new build system doesn't solve the deconning problem (the reason many have given for it's introduction) and also makes base building a little too easy (in my opinion). Also in my opinion, the notion of a structure vanishing with no builder next to it is crazy. What could be called 'remote deconning' looks silly because there's no indication what just made the structure vanish (whereas the ckit pointing at it in the original system serves as enough of a hint). Particularly, I don't see it as fair that the mara who secured the node from being deconned in a move should have his prize vanish from beneath him.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Make the base less safe to stick around. [Are we going with that one?]
Does this mean the base is safe, but the people in it aren't? (relatively speaking)
I'd argue that the base being dangerous to aliens at all is cause for camping it. The only disadvantage I see to staying in the base is the difficulty in moving around (you can't dodge as easily). Yet it is the very people who can't dodge anyway who usually choose to camp. Also, given the new optimal base layout (spread out) there is more space to dodge in (for the people who can) and since they used to leave the base because it was too cramped now have less incentive to leave it.
I propose that the camping problem is a natural consequence of having a race that doesn't have ranged attacks versus a race that does and also has a base to use the ranged attacks from.
The more you make this change effective, the less you need the base at all. If you have the turrets do a bad job of protecting humans, then how can they still be good at protecting the base? This problem is more about balance and I'm optimistic that improvements could be made. That said, I don't think you're going to eliminate camping this way. New players will still be safer in the base than out. You could very easily end up contributing to the feeding problem.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Turn all weapons into mass drivers (exaggeration) by speeding up projectiles and/or lengthening reload times. [Is this what we choose?]
As for the sped up luci, when I used it I was astonished by how damn easy it was to kill things with it. I think you've truly made the devil cannon and this is not the devil I know. NOT a welcome change.
This change will detract from some of the variation of weapons in the game and/or make more powerful weapons more potent than is in my opinion fair.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Make all weapons so easy to use that your basic noob will have no choice but to own with them. [shall I tick this one?]
How about I use an extreme example to illustrate this point. Imagine a game where the only weapon was a button that, when pressed, kills any enemy you like instantly. In this example you might note that the chance of winning or losing a game is 50/50. That sounds fair.
Of course it isn't fun at all. I propose that the fun in a game is the development of skill in the use of tools in the game. I feel as though there is a balance to be struck between how easy they are to pick up for starters, and how much room there is for improvement. Tremulous guns are already quite easy to use for beginners. I don't think they need to be any easier.
This change could make the game less interesting for long term players. My fear is that too much emphasis is being put on balancing public games (full of new players) and not enough thought is going into the minority of 'experienced' matches.
[2]Foolish but less drastic: Give the lagging party the benefit of the doubt, so that not just them but all have a distorted perspective [unlagged anyone?]
I personally don't like how a faulty or slow connection is 'trusted' as much as a fast/clean connection. I can see how it can be liked though so I won't bring it up again.
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this thread is rapidly turning into the "when is 1.2 coming out" thread. you would save yourself a lot of bother to realise that not only will 1.2 will never come out, but the crappy mgdev changes that every hates because they are "too stupid" is not 1.2 but just a mod which less people play then tremx.
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this thread is rapidly turning into the "when is 1.2 coming out" thread. you would save yourself a lot of bother to realise that not only will 1.2 will never come out, but the crappy mgdev changes that every hates because they are "too stupid" is not 1.2 but just a mod which less people play then tremx.
I lol'd.
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GO NUX!!! you argued well.
There are no "fools" in this world. It is mostly people making mistakes or people doing dumb stuff. Wars are won by numbers or smart moves. It is won by smart people on the other side doing somthing dumb.
But tremx?
that is all i play. Not many people want to wait for the 2 kb/s to download 2.5 mb. That is most likly the reason. i waited for over an hour and im glad I did. Also not every one knows about the auto download.
The tremulous team should really look at tremX and see what they can do to make it better.
I have to say it is the best mod for tremulous. It is basicly tremulous 2.0. You can tell the creater tried to make TremX more even for both teams but he/she failed in the fact that they made a adv.tyrant. Even with invis humies and the Xeals the aliens mostly always win still. If anything they should make 1.2 more even or just make a tremulous 2.0.
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It is basicly tremulous 2.0. You can tell the creater tried to make TremX more even for both teams
It's funny you say that, considering that his stated goal when he started out was to break Tremulous.
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TremX has everything you can think of when it comes to Tremulous. Except balance. If our changes end up with something resembling balance, we confidently assure you, it was a complete accident.
Invisibility
Grenade Launchers
Uber-lasers
Ammo packs
Force Fields
Et cetera, ad nauseam
Screw balance, who needs it?
All joking aside, I actually support MGDev as a whole, although I do disagree with some specific changes (20 hp dretch, 60 hp basi, and 80 hp adv basi. Why change B to compenaste for previous change A, when change A could be toned down) and I believe some other changes were a little too "over the top" (Lucifer, range of barb splash).
But as a whole, I support it, play on it whenever someone else is there, and I think that they will smooth any kinks out in the end.
EDIT: I looked at the recent changes, and Barb splash range was fixed an hour and a half ago. Told ya they are still working on it!
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The most recent things are always the most frequently changing. The mortar-style barbs is the most recent thing.
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The New Build System (the one I don't like)
1. As a human builder I am able to replace our only two telenodes with an armoury. In the old system you couldn't decon multiple things at once like you are able to now. This is far worse than it used to be. Just because a deconner has to build a new thing while deconning old doesn't mean he can't disrupt the game just as much as ever (quite possibly even more so).
2. You may as well mark all buildings for decon as soon as you build them since this allows you to make insanely simple base moves when it's attacked. If ever you have a particular building you want deconned (because it's being camped by aliens) you can then just unmark the safe buildings next to you that might get replaced and build your new one. Once everything's in order, you can then mark it all for decon again.
Since this is the best strategy (where incompetent builders aren't a threat) it might as well be default for the building to be marked for decon. That said, I am opposed to this system and would prefer to be rid of the marking system all together.
3. Having structures just disappear with nobody around it is like having people shoot lasers out of their ass. It looks stupid and isn't fair on their bewildered enemies.
Can I have some comments?
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1. As a human builder I am able to replace our only two telenodes with an armoury. In the old system you couldn't decon multiple things at once like you are able to now. This is far worse than it used to be. Just because a deconner has to build a new thing while deconning old doesn't mean he can't disrupt the game just as much as ever (quite possibly even more so).
no, you aren't.
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I AM able to do this actually, since I just tried it out. Am I to understand the version I just used is out-dated? If so, good.
Now how about the problem of deconners replacing all but one node with some structure to impede the spawn queue and building the reactor where the aliens can keep it. Before, if the deconner wanted to give the aliens the reac he would need to decon, run from the human base to the alien base, then build again- in which time the reac can be rebuilt at the human base again. Now the deconner can start building it somewhere else before anyone even notices it's gone.
How about the only armoury? Can I replace that with something else? Or any vital structure for that matter?
What if I WANT to replace all the nodes with an armoury as a swift tactical move? (though this is perhaps an unlikely case, perhaps we've all spawned in a small space and need an armoury to buy equipment from).
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I think that buildings deconned should have a unique death animation, without the explosion of course. It would be preferable to the buildings simply disappearing. Of course, the BBox would dissappear, allowing players and other buildings to go through them.
Aliens could probably substitute the normal death animation, followed by the model disappearing, followed by the creep decal shrinking away.
Humans would need death animations that suggested the buildings being dismantled or such.
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Why change B to compenaste for previous change A.
EDIT: I looked at the recent changes, and Barb splash range was fixed an hour and a half ago. Told ya they are still working on it!
@ change B thing: Well maybe they shouldn't have changed A. The should make B stronger. Not only would it make it more fun but also more even.
@ EDIT: Well at least that gives me some comfort, to know maybe they are taking the feed back in, but they should really listen to the players. Not just go on your own theorys. That would make 1.2 much better.
(I really hope MG sees this topic and post. It will do them good)
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STFU+GTFO
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STFU+GTFO
English please?
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He says: Shut the F*** up and get the F*** out.
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STFU+GTFO
English please?
Yes, you're definitely a gamer. ::)
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STFU+GTFO
English please?
Yes, you're definitely a gamer. ::)
Ya if you don't know what that means you don't have a life!!! ;)
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@ change B thing: Well maybe they shouldn't have changed A. The should make B stronger. Not only would it make it more fun but also more even.
Exactly my point.
In the case of HP, each change A are as follows:
Dretch BBox reduced from 302 to 242, and was thus harder to hit and had their HP reduced. I am somewhat for that change, as I said that Dretch models were tiny compared to their BBoxes. This change was coupled with increasing the size of the model by 1.2 times. It also added the problem of dretch fitting into certain holes in certain maps, including arachnid.
Basilisk became perhaps too powerful, and the Adv. Basi had a staggering 9 hp/sec regen. HP was lowered, and now Adv. Basi can heal to full in 9 seconds flat.
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I signed up for their forum. And posted in the feedback thread, that the turrets move to slow.
They said that is how it is going to be. It will "prevent" camping.......
LOL
Hummies camp becuase they get killed in outside of base. Now they made the turrets painfily slow, therefor lettng you get killed not only outside base but also inside.
When i said that they prettey much said go away...and so i did.
I check back at the forum. For just looking and i saw that a few people did agree with me. The the head guy dude. Just seemed to not see them.
I really do mean to necro an old post but for a pretty good reason I think. I found this thread today going through my past posts and seeing if there was anything worthwhile posted long after I stopped reading the thread. I looked at how Critters had made a comment about the turrets and the communities response to his criticism. Admittedly he may have not given the new speed a fair go, but I thought that he was being attacked a bit much but I didn't say anything at the time since I knew very little about the changes to trem.
I decided that I would try and see for myself what he was talking about so this morning I hopped onto MG Dev Server No 1 (no-one but me there of course) and I discovered that the turrets indeed turned VERY rapidly. Faster it seems than 1.1. I'm not complaining about the turret speed. If this server (svn 1024 dated Dec 12 2008 or something quite near it) is the closest we have to 1.2 then I think Critters point was valid and the dev's have changed the speed. My point? It seems that people are too eager to destroy others points of view without due consideration. I hope that I have made my point clear.
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the turrets have always turned much faster than 1.1 (it was either the first or second balance change ever, i don't remember which at this point).
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the turrets have always turned much faster than 1.1 (it was either the first or second balance change ever, i don't remember which at this point).
I remember them being faster firing once they locked on, but taking longer to lock on, though its been a while since I've played it. I thought, however, this was the reason dretches lost the ability to damage rets, because it was too easy to avoid that lock on and certain excellent dretches could decimate the entire human base in less than a minute.
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the turrets have always turned much faster than 1.1 (it was either the first or second balance change ever, i don't remember which at this point).
I remember them being faster firing once they locked on, but taking longer to lock on, though its been a while since I've played it. I thought, however, this was the reason dretches lost the ability to damage rets, because it was too easy to avoid that lock on and certain excellent dretches could decimate the entire human base in less than a minute.
they take 750ms to "spin up" after they are locked onto a target before they fire, but their actual turn rate is quite a bit faster than in 1.1 (in 1.1, if you can manage to get the turrets pointing in the wrong direction, it becomes very easy to do something like hop onto the reactor or chomp a pair of humans and take next to no damage, on mgdev a turret facing in the wrong direction takes almost no time to get pointed in the right one)
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Sorry guys but human players actually have to shoot aliens now. I know it is hard to adjust but its for the better.
I think the sum of all the changes works well together. It feels different but not worse.
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It seems that my point was missed somehow. :S
My point was that it seems that flaming is easier than being constructive or even ignoring posts.
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1.2: THE LEGEND
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The recycle flag on structures in 1.2 is brilliant and another welcome addition. And it eliminates (or at least curves) deconning problems.
On the downside of the strategy changes, there is the higher learning curve (FPS-wise), and the adaptation period for 1.1 veterans (strategy-wise). But I got the impression that people who went to MGDev games were quite pleased with the overall feeling.
It's clear that 1.2 will change tactics quite a bit for both humans and aliens. It should, in theory, provide for much more action and more dynamic games all around.
"Camping" usually implies humans are doing it, but in fact in 1.1 both humans and aliens are camping: humans in their base, the aliens just outside it. For humans, in 1.1 there's this general feeling of clinging to the base as a nice warm and safe place and going out only for bright-eyed and bushy-tailed hit-and-runs. As for the aliens, they develop a feeling of owning the rest of the map and think they can take their time, stay outside the human base laughing and joking at their expense in between short hit-and-runs for snacks, and generally make a slumber party of it. It comes across as some sort of kids movie; the little boys' treehouse vs the little girls' pajama party.
1.2 will force decent human players to give up their warm secure blanky and roam the map more, which in turn will cut the aliens short on their feeling superior and in control.
However, I don't personally feel that this will be a perfect and complete solution to camping, anymore than recyclable structures are a perfect and complete solution to deconning. If humans want to camp there are probably camp configurations that will allow it to certain extent. Old habits hard to break and all that. Not to mention there will always be the dumb players who don't get armor and get head pounced in their own base.
Anyway, I've got a suggestion: change the sound on the turret fire for 1.2. Something a bit lower perhaps, coarser, more rough, more "mean" that the 1.1 sound. I think that FPS players base their behaviour on all kinds of external stimuli and sound makes no exception. The coarser sound should serve to get across the feeling that the turret damage is different now. It would help aliens adjust better by linking the different sound to a different set of reactions and create a new set of "muscle memory".
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The recycle flag on structures in 1.2 is brilliant and another welcome addition. And it eliminates (or at least curves) deconning problems.
A good deal of 1.1 servers have had this as well, just not with the cgame additions.
On the downside of the strategy changes, there is the higher learning curve (FPS-wise), and the adaptation period for 1.1 veterans (strategy-wise). But I got the impression that people who went to MGDev games were quite pleased with the overall feeling.
It's clear that 1.2 will change tactics quite a bit for both humans and aliens. It should, in theory, provide for much more action and more dynamic games all around.
Putting it lightly.
"Camping" usually implies humans are doing it, but in fact in 1.1 both humans and aliens are camping: humans in their base, the aliens just outside it. For humans, in 1.1 there's this general feeling of clinging to the base as a nice warm and safe place and going out only for bright-eyed and bushy-tailed hit-and-runs. As for the aliens, they develop a feeling of owning the rest of the map and think they can take their time, stay outside the human base laughing and joking at their expense in between short hit-and-runs for snacks, and generally make a slumber party of it. It comes across as some sort of kids movie; the little boys' treehouse vs the little girls' pajama party.
1.2 will force decent human players to give up their warm secure blanky and roam the map more, which in turn will cut the aliens short on their feeling superior and in control.
You, apparently, don't play on any good servers. It is rarely like this when you're playing with equal opponents.
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well the animations are awesome and maybe they will import the flying alien.
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You, apparently, don't play on any good servers. It is rarely like this when you're playing with equal opponents.
Granted. But is that the norm or rather the exception? I'd venture to say that the vast majority of Tremulous players are average at best.
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Off Topic: "average at best" <-- great name for a clan
On Topic: i liek taht "new stimuli for new effects" idea
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At hs1, goons own the map. At as3, rants own the map. This is IMO the major balance issue with the game.
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Ahhh, but humans have that critical Stage Two to rampage through the aliens base.
And really now, a rant isn't so bad if you have a saw, chaingun, luci, or teammate handy.
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Are you excited for 1.2?
No.
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well he beat me to it.
No.
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Can't say differently.
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It's new and refreshing. I'm not waiting on 1.2, as 1.1 is fine, but I certainly wouldn't turn it down if the Devs said they could release tomorrow.
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I am very excited. It looks like it's going to be awesome. You know what else would be awesome? If you got off the forums.
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It looks like it's going to be awesome.
According to lastest news 1.2 have few very strange and weird ideas. cant judje before release, but on this moment i bet on 1.1 and most players around community do not wanna such 1.2 'tweaks' also. =]
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Don't judge without seeing it for yourself. Seriously, 15 minutes on the MGDev server, even by yourself, may change your mind. Try to take on the human base and see how it goes.
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I like "1.2", but most of the gameplay in 1.1 is fine. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. There will be riots.
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You can't tell me there aren't any things in the 1.1 gameplay you'd like to see changed.
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I honestly think the 1.1 gameplay is fine. The only thing I would like to see in 1.2 is better default entities and stuff.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
+1
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It looks like it's going to be awesome.
According to lastest news 1.2 have few very strange and weird ideas. cant judje before release, but on this moment i bet on 1.1 and most players around community do not wanna such 1.2 'tweaks' also. =]
Actually, many of the changes that they talk about I think needed to be done.
EDIT: I've lost 2 karma since this post. Oh dear.
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1.2 didn't fix many of the problems that I had with 1.1. I had hoped 1.2 would bring more useful 'lisks and teslas, which it had. Mark-for-decon is an excellent tool. The better scoring system is nice. Turrets, from a human perspective, were just fine. Now, I've played on MG Dev quite a bit, and while I do like most of what has changed, the entire gameplay dynamic has been altered, and a lot of people will not like it. Hopefully the players that 1.2 brings in will funlily the loss of 1.1 players. (Any word on whether the devs plan on continuing Tremulous after 1.2? Perhaps it's a bit early to ask, but I really hope Tremulous doesn't go abandonware after 1.2. Wouldn't be surprised. Few years on the project, might be time to move on.)
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I'm getting a Geforce 6200 PCI card just to prepare my PC for v1.2. Its sad, but it'll be well worth it just to play all of the maps at a frame rate higher then 10 FPS. Can't wait for the release.
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I honestly think the 1.1 gameplay is fine. The only thing I would like to see in 1.2 is better default entities and stuff.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
+1
Fully agreed. I wish few balance tune, not 'fully new incredible crap solution'. Most of announced things in mods right now. Rest things... a bit weird. Better tune render engine a bit, remake models/maps and some code work. Tremulous pretty good right now, its just need some polish. On this point of development most of trem players which i know says 'i gonna continue 1.1 even after release or just find another game when there will be too few 1.1 players'.
And... hell yeah, +1 to quoted!
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I like the 1.2 changes, tho it has been coming for too long to be 'exited' about it. I would also like better entites (and ofc some physics, but that won't happen :( )
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I dislike mark system - it makes building damn a lot easier and i don't really see a point in it. Deconner can mark RC and build it near aliens base or in some rarely used place on map. It also kills teamplay, in 1.1 (at least in humans) you have to find someone to decon stuff from other base in order to free some bps, with marks you can move entire base alone. I know it was sometimes really hard to find someone who would decon or at least bother read teamchat - but if there are only illiterates in your team, you wouldn't win anyway. Also it makes rc move on game start much more less risky on greater distances. I see no point in replacing old build system - I'd rather improve it.
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I'd rather improve it.
What changes would you make?
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1.2 didn't fix many of the problems that I had with 1.1. I had hoped 1.2 would bring more useful 'lisks and teslas, which it had. Mark-for-decon is an excellent tool. The better scoring system is nice. Turrets, from a human perspective, were just fine. Now, I've played on MG Dev quite a bit, and while I do like most of what has changed, the entire gameplay dynamic has been altered, and a lot of people will not like it. Hopefully the players that 1.2 brings in will funlily the loss of 1.1 players. (Any word on whether the devs plan on continuing Tremulous after 1.2? Perhaps it's a bit early to ask, but I really hope Tremulous doesn't go abandonware after 1.2. Wouldn't be surprised. Few years on the project, might be time to move on.)
1.2 hasn't. It hasn't been released yet so you should use the present tense.
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I'd rather improve it.
What changes would you make?
I'd improve designated builder role. If not-designated builder is trying to move RC, he's calling a teamvote instead with question "Player 'XXX' wants to decon The Reactor". This vote would pass even if it's 1:0, so you would be able to move rc in 1:1. Once vote passes, builder can decon rc like every other building (once). The weak point of this concept is that it will be harder to move RC/OM at beginning of the game - maybe make players able to move rc like in 1.1 in first minute of the game?
Another change to designated builders: if XXX is trying to decon one of their building, they should decide if they want to allow him to do so. I was thinking about big centered text saying "'XXX' attempts to decon your building. Would you like to allow him to do so? (F1 - yes, F2 - no)' lasting for long. Also, the building should be marked. If there's no designated builder in XXX's team, he will just decon it like in 1.1.
Getting designed designated builder status, should look like in 1.1, you call a teamvote to designate you, and your team decides if they want you designated. But if you don't want to be designated builder anymore, you should be able to reverse it without calling another vote.
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Designated builder is an even bigger and more intrusive change.
It also fucks you over for getting anything done, and is basically crippling the game-play and preventing moves just to try to stop deconers. It's like saying someone might try to shoot me sometime, so I should chop my legs off so I'm a smaller target.
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@ Creature. Oshit. Nitpick. Good catch, though.
@ Davod/Asvarox/Taiyo: Mark decon is definitely a better choice than designated builder, if only because it allows a base to be rebuilt by all of your team after an attack. Although I do agree that, sometimes, I prefer the tense feeling when you're trying desperately to get the reactor move just right, that just isn't how it works anymore. Either some asshat decides to build the RC somewhere else, or it just never gets deconned. It's hard to find a good human team these days. Mark decon might be a big change, but (I feel) it's necessary.
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As long as backwards compatibility is kept in the client I don't see what would prevent people from hosting and playing on 1.1 servers if they don't like 1.2.
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As long as backwards compatibility is kept in the client I don't see what would prevent people from hosting and playing on 1.1 servers if they don't like 1.2.
Protocol 70 over 69
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I meant they can keep the old client, or both, and use them as they please.
Or do you mean to say this will be a problem at master server level? That only 1.2 servers will be available?
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@up
I'm sure just after a week of 1.2 release (will it ever happen) there will be "1.1 gameplay mod".
Designated builder is an even bigger and more intrusive change.
It also fucks you over for getting anything done, and is basically crippling the game-play and preventing moves just to try to stop deconers. It's like saying someone might try to shoot me sometime, so I should chop my legs off so I'm a smaller target.
Current designated builders are cutting our legs off, indeed. My last poset in this topic was about improving it, so it will cut a finger, not whole leg. And I'm sure after few brainstorms it won't cut anything but it still will be preventing deconners.
As for "preventing moves" - I have no idea why my propositions would prevent them. Base moves are possible in 1.1 too :police:
Mark decon is definitely a better choice than designated builder, if only because it allows a base to be rebuilt by all of your team after an attack.
You can build even with you aren't a designated builder.
As I stated before marking makes building a lot of easier, removes another tactical aspect of game and makes it require less teamwork - in 1.1 when you are moving a base you have to find at least 1 other player to help you, and when you find one that cooperates with you, it gives you a lot of fun. In 1.2 you can do it alone. I find doing something alone in a team-based game boring.
In 1.1 while moving base you had to make sure that every building in your old base is gone, also your enemy could camp them, so you lose some bps at sd (mostly happens to humans, but there was a game, where aliens couldnt move their om becase humans camped it (http://gameboom.net/files/o8/K13PTo/shot0037.jpg) [(c) K13PTo]). 1.2 removes it (but i think it can be fixed - marked building will disappear only when it's powered).
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@up
I'm sure just after a week of 1.2 release (will it ever happen) there will be "1.1 gameplay mod".
Designated builder is an even bigger and more intrusive change.
It also fucks you over for getting anything done, and is basically crippling the game-play and preventing moves just to try to stop deconers. It's like saying someone might try to shoot me sometime, so I should chop my legs off so I'm a smaller target.
Current designated builders are cutting our legs off, indeed. My last poset in this topic was about improving it, so it will cut a finger, not whole leg. And I'm sure after few brainstorms it won't cut anything but it still will be preventing deconners.
As for "preventing moves" - I have no idea why my propositions would prevent them. Base moves are possible in 1.1 too :police:
Mark decon is definitely a better choice than designated builder, if only because it allows a base to be rebuilt by all of your team after an attack.
You can build even with you aren't a designated builder.
As I stated before marking makes building a lot of easier, removes another tactical aspect of game and makes it require less teamwork - in 1.1 when you are moving a base you have to find at least 1 other player to help you, and when you find one that cooperates with you, it gives you a lot of fun. In 1.2 you can do it alone. I find doing something alone in a team-based game boring.
In 1.1 while moving base you had to make sure that every building in your old base is gone, also your enemy could camp them, so you lose some bps at sd (mostly happens to humans, but there was a game, where aliens couldnt move their om becase humans camped it (http://gameboom.net/files/o8/K13PTo/shot0037.jpg) [(c) K13PTo]). 1.2 removes it (but i think it can be fixed - marked building will disappear only when it's powered).
Blah, the current building system is unwieldy to a skilled builder. Team work with building is mostly 'don't do that' and arguments. Marked decon streamlines the process but doesn't make it any easier. You still have to keep track of what you mark, what you don't. If you want to move long range, having two people still is faster and safer than one. I don't get the whole argument against making the game play better. Maybe we should all use 1 button mice and laptop sized keyboards to really show skillz.
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It would be nice if the builder hud showed what buildings you had and if they were marked / hp / whatever.
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Nothing wrong with the Trem we already have.
and Camping IS part of the game.
Just tart up other parts of v1.1.0
like maybe with a list of Humans you can play as
in different combats.
Also different colored aliens, i dunno.
But something has got to be done to stop the hackers.
Having two kinds of Trem running is only going to split
the community = less players on either version.
and maybe Tremulous will die faster.
A piss easy map editor would be a good attraction.
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A piss easy map editor would be a good attraction.
The existing one, while not exactly being piss easy, is not difficult to learn to use. Aside from that there are a lot (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shitload) of maps for tremulous (http://downloads.mercenariesguild.net/maps/), and a decent amount of good ones - they're not played nearly as often as the default ones. I think this is mostly because newbies who don't know how to turn on auto-download, or update their client, cannot play - which makes it less enticing for anyone who can play the map.
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and Camping IS part of the game.
in 90% of public games almost whole humans team is camping at rets with chainsuits before and after sd. If they leave their rets, they wont go far away from them.
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A piss easy map editor would be a good attraction.
aa2map (http://aa2map.y7.ath.cx/)
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The New Build System (the one I don't like)
1. As a human builder I am able to replace our only two telenodes with an armoury. In the old system you couldn't decon multiple things at once like you are able to now. This is far worse than it used to be. Just because a deconner has to build a new thing while deconning old doesn't mean he can't disrupt the game just as much as ever (quite possibly even more so).
2. You may as well mark all buildings for decon as soon as you build them since this allows you to make insanely simple base moves when it's attacked. If ever you have a particular building you want deconned (because it's being camped by aliens) you can then just unmark the safe buildings next to you that might get replaced and build your new one. Once everything's in order, you can then mark it all for decon again.
Since this is the best strategy (where incompetent builders aren't a threat) it might as well be default for the building to be marked for decon. That said, I am opposed to this system and would prefer to be rid of the marking system all together.
3. Having structures just disappear with nobody around it is like having people shoot lasers out of their ass. It looks stupid and isn't fair on their bewildered enemies.
Can I have some comments?
It's not as bad as you put it, but I have to confess I'm not in love with the marked decon system either. Primarily cause I think it's unneeded, and too complex. I think all the troubles with the old system could be solved with minor tweaks, like making human buildables start with 25% of health, for safer, while still weak, base moving, and never allow to decon the last node nor the last armory. And the reactor could just loose its health slowy until reaching 0 and dissapearing, process that could be stopped by repairing it. That'd be enough and simple as now. But it doesn't matter. It's done already and won't change, and it's ok.
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people seem to be forgetting that in 1.1 human base moves are extremely risky(sometimes even with good teamwork), while alien base moves are effectively zero risk. marked deconstruction doesn't balance it out, but it does make it much closer.
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As I stated before marking makes building a lot of easier, removes another tactical aspect of game and makes it require less teamwork - in 1.1 when you are moving a base you have to find at least 1 other player to help you, and when you find one that cooperates with you, it gives you a lot of fun. In 1.2 you can do it alone. I find doing something alone in a team-based game boring.
people seem to be forgetting that in 1.1 human base moves are extremely risky(sometimes even with good teamwork), while alien base moves are effectively zero risk. marked deconstruction doesn't balance it out, but it does make it much closer.
I find these points of view rather simplistic. It's not so cut and dry.
@Asvarox, you're not doing anything alone, you're still doing it for the team. It's just become easier to do it by yourself. I find that too many human base moves and fallbacks fail because you can't coordinate two builders well enough. And that's a communication problem. Solutions are obvious: either provide better communication (which is not guaranteed, even with VoIP), or simplify the job of building for individual players so perhaps you can manage better without 2+ builders.
@kevlarman, I wouldn't go as far as to call alien base moves "zero risk". If you don't do it right you're going to mess it up for your team just as well. And a granger is much easier to kill than a ckit suit.
The basic differences are exactly two: eggs can power structures, and the adv grangers have wallwalk and thus extra mobility. This makes it easier for a single granger to escape the humans long enough to rebuild OM and an egg. But like I said above, there are other aspects that balance this.
IMHO, marked decon is a very fine middle ground for mitigating both base moves and malicious decons.
@Asvarox: regarding camping. If you camp as a naked rifleman in S1 it's understandable. Even advisable: if you lack the skills, at least don't feed the dretches.
But if you camp in S2 with larmor+helmet+pulse or in S3 with lucisuit, then it's either because the aliens are completely pouring it on and it's all you can do to survive... or it's a psychological problem. It's this last issue that's a real problem in Trem: humans with good enough equipment who nevertheless camp.
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They camp *because* they have good gear. The campers are generally the same people who feed, it took them so long to get that gear that they don't want to lose it.
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The basic differences are exactly two: eggs can power structures, and the adv grangers have wallwalk and thus extra mobility. This makes it easier for a single granger to escape the humans long enough to rebuild OM and an egg. But like I said above, there are other aspects that balance this.
Nah, the basic difference is that if humans are detected is almost a guaranteed fail because building with aliens around is too hard even with a bunch of people defending (defenders most times make it harder, actually), and a guaranteed fail is almost a guaranteed defeat. Aliens can recover fine for a failed move. Just have some eggs elsewhere and it's no big deal for them.
That's why I say most of the troubles would be solved if human structures started with a small percentage of health, at least when using the advanced constructor kit. That way humans would be able to place a few turrets that aren't teamkilled by a rifle or a jumping dretch (while still being a piece of cake for a mara), and that'd be enough to attempt many more moves than with the current system without the need of marked decon.
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@Asvarox, you're not doing anything alone, you're still doing it for the team. It's just become easier to do it by yourself. I find that too many human base moves and fallbacks fail because you can't coordinate two builders well enough. And that's a communication problem. Solutions are obvious: either provide better communication (which is not guaranteed, even with VoIP), or simplify the job of building for individual players so perhaps you can manage better without 2+ builders.
Is that about building in 1.1 or 1.2? P: and btw what did you mean in "you're not doing anything alone, you're still doing it for the team"?
And that's a communication problem. Solutions are obvious: either provide better communication (which is not guaranteed, even with VoIP)
I assume it's about 1.1 . Acutally there is no problem with communication (last time i checked, chat worked just fine), but with teammates' attitude. You need to find someone that knows what teamwork means. Some servers are filled up with lone warriors that seem to have recompiled client that doesn't display teamchat. These players are mostly newbies, noobs and (always-)pissed players that think "this guy annoyed me hard by killing me in last game and saying nothing so I have to kill him 100 times to satisfy my dick".
If you camp as a naked rifleman in S1 it's understandable. Even advisable: if you lack the skills, at least don't feed the dretches.
It's understandable only if aliens have goons since it's better if you kill them close to rets and medi where you can hide and where you can count more on your teammates. If you are really new, of course it's better for team to don't leave the base and shoot dretches from larger distances, but you can't except you will gain some experience this way. IMO it's ok if you feed (note i didn't type massfeed) because you have no skills; I've never kicked a newb for feeding even if server allows me to.
people seem to be forgetting that in 1.1 human base moves are extremely risky(sometimes even with good teamwork), while alien base moves are effectively zero risk. marked deconstruction doesn't balance it out, but it does make it much closer.
Human base move are the most exciting thing in human building aspect of Tremulous which can either make your team lose or gain big advantage and have some great fun. Human base moving is risky, but the risk is rewarded by having base in great spot that is really hard to rush (eg. garden in niveus, ele room in karith). Aliens can move their base basically everywhere they want, but their base is much more weaker than humans base. Even well built base sometimes can be killed by 1 luci who can take down all the defenses if he know where they are, or at least killing all eggs by luci jumping over the possible trapper spots. Aliens can't do that - even if they jump over rets on nodes, there's small chance he will destroy any of them before rets kill him. And sniping them (assuming they are in snipeable spot) will takie much more longer than killing eggs with luci. Smart luci will kill aliens base faster than smart rant/goon or anything (exception is 1.2 adv mara which can neutralize every human base that doesn't contain teslas). Of course it's true only if they have clear way. But I find easier to kill an egg in aliens base with luci even if there's a rant than jumping on node if there's a chainsuit.
building with aliens around is too hard even with a bunch of people defending (defenders most times make it harder, actually)
Yes if teammates are dumb enough to shoot dretches that are between rets with their pulse rifles and if builder is stupid enough to build and ignoring those bunch of aliens rushing his structures. But yes your building hp idea seems to be nice.
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This is quickly turning into a strategy debate and we're not on the appropriate section for that.
Is 1.2 going to be such a big difference? I think we all agree that yes, it will. But it doesn't matter. As long as you can see both 1.1 and 1.2 servers and you can connect to any of them confortably using the same client I guess we'll just have to wait and see how people like it. The important thing is that Trem is evolving and we get a choice.
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As long as you can see both 1.1 and 1.2 servers and you can connect to any of them confortably using the same client I guess we'll just have to wait and see how people like it. The important thing is that Trem is evolving and we get a choice.
That's not going to happen, but it would not be surprising to see a mod with approximately the same game play as 1.1.
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There has been talk about 1.2 for along as I've played this game...and till i see results: meaning a release, I won't believe it.
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1.2 is vaporware
EOF
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That's not going to happen, but it would not be surprising to see a mod with approximately the same game play as 1.1.
Amanieu says (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9756.msg163809#msg163809) the TremFusion client will work with both 1.1 and 1.2 servers.
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Trem 1.2 is coming soon, I can feel it in meh bones. (They don't lie (I hope))
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That's not going to happen, but it would not be surprising to see a mod with approximately the same game play as 1.1.
I really hope that doesn't happen. And I'm of the ones who don't like the marked decon that much, but I would be upset to see such mod.
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Amanieu says (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9756.msg163809#msg163809) the TremFusion client will work with both 1.1 and 1.2 servers.
Last I heard TF was dropping support for both...
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[Some stuff I said]
It's not as bad as you put it, but I have to confess I'm not in love with the marked decon system either. Primarily cause I think it's unneeded, and too complex. I think all the troubles with the old system could be solved with minor tweaks, like making human buildables start with 25% of health, for safer, while still weak, base moving, and never allow to decon the last node nor the last armory. And the reactor could just loose its health slowy until reaching 0 and dissapearing, process that could be stopped by repairing it. That'd be enough and simple as now. But it doesn't matter. It's done already and won't change, and it's ok.
To put things in perspective, that was over a year ago I said that. You should understand that my beliefs can easily change over this time.
That said, I still don't like the marked decon system. I feel as though there are alternative changes that haven't been fully explored which would work better. For instance have you tried shortening build times for human buildings but keeping the ckit build timer lengthy?
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I still believe that 1.1 building system just needs some tweaking, but now I see I've been missing another side of this point - mark decon can be tweaked as well.
For example (I probably suggested it already), marked buildings can disappear only when they are powered. This would bring back bps holding tactic for aliens. If a building isn't powered, builder should build a repeater/rc near them, or decon them like in 1.1 (if you click "mark building" button near unpowered building, it disappear like in 1.1). Another idea is to make building speed (and timer length) based on how many bps repeater is using. Basically more bps= faster building (I know it doesn't sound logical, but we are talking about balance :P ), starting from 1.5 for normal building time to 1.1 (or 1.2 :angel: ). Normal building speed can be provided only by rc.
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For example (I probably suggested it already), marked buildings can disappear only when they are powered. This would bring back bps holding tactic for aliens. If a building isn't powered, builder should build a repeater/rc near them, or decon them like in 1.1 (if you click "mark building" button near unpowered building, it disappear like in 1.1).
I like this, although I still think there should be a way to decon 1.1 style. Aside from anything else it's feeding. Maybe a "nuke all marked buildings near me" button :).
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Deconners would be pleased :D
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"nuke all marked and unpowered buildings near me" button then >_>. And only if you have an RC elsewhere.
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/me marks all buildings, runs outside, builds RC, runs back in and hits nuke all button
Here's an idea, if you have such issues with early game moves so much harder for humans than aliens, make repeater s1.... duh.
Thats the advantage aliens have, they don't have to move OM to make a new base at s1, where as humans have to move rc, rendering their old base powerless.
This new mark system hardly changes anything, it only irritates people who want to decon specific things at a time, and want them deconned then, not as your building.
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Bah. I don't like the thought that the building system is restricted for the sake of deconners. It just feels like they've griefed the game on a whole new level.
If you are really that bothered about deconning, how's about putting in an automatic teamvote system where a set amount of people have to agree before a vital building can be deconned.
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hey guise i got sum noobs buildin dem Turrets on mah atcs wallz and i mlike 'omfg i cant decon dis shit y0 cauze liek i gotta build 999 other Turrets first and the drenche sare gunna com n fuk us up b/c u decon my GOOD Turrets!!' and i like pie
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Summing up a bunch of IMO interesting tweaks to 1.1 system that have been said here:
- Allow repeater since s1
- Make human buildings build faster while keeping the ckit reload time the same.
- Advanced ckit buildings start with 15 or 20% health while keeping the same build time.
- Do not allow to decon the last node nor the last armory.
- Reactor uses marked decon or unpowers slowly until extinction.
They are individually minor changes, but I think if putting all together they would solve human building problems without the need of drastically changing it.
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- Make human buildings build faster while keeping the ckit reload time the same.
IMO, the build time is just right the way it is. I agree with other ideas, but what do you mean with "Reactor ... unpowers slowly until extinction"?
Oh and armory should be deconnable if that is the only way to build a node.
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You already can't decon the last node.
And the last arm is just stupid, would require you to have two arms when moving it, which sucks.
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But the last node can be destroyed. I don't think having 2 armos for 10 seconds while moving it is worse then not having an armory for 10 seconds.
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I don't think having 2 armos for 10 seconds while moving it is worse then not having an armory for 10 seconds.
This is a pet hate of mine. Too often I see people (including old players) deconning the thing before they've placed the new one needlesly. They have plenty of BP and it wasn't in the way. Not sure why they decide to leave the team without it for that amount of time but whatever the reason, it's annoying and can be the difference between getting that early advantage or not.
Though this applies to the armoury move, I'd say leaving the team with 1 spawn for an amount of time is more costly as it fills the spawn queue up, leaving you to watch as the enemy raids your base.
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But the last node can be destroyed. I don't think having 2 armos for 10 seconds while moving it is worse then not having an armory for 10 seconds.
I always have 2 armorys when moving. Decon other stuff build armory and then decon armory and build other stuff (in fact I rarely build the same thing which was deconed). Who doesn't do it like that isn't doing it right, imo. Human team is very weakened without arm and there's no advantage in no having it. But well, I understand what he says and may be a drawback for some people. I think a minor one, tho.
IMO, the build time is just right the way it is. I agree with other ideas, but what do you mean with "Reactor ... unpowers slowly until extinction"?
I mean it as an alternative to marked decon. You "decon" it, but doesn't yet dissapear. It goes loosing health until dissapearing. If you repair it during this proccess, it stops loosing health, so you can cancel the decon.
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- Allow repeater since s1
Who cares about s1 aliens bases? They always suck. Aliens have to move their base at s1 and completely rebuild it at s2. Humans need to build a base at s1 sometimes even without moving rc and then move it at s2... using repeaters. Giving humans them at s1 would disturb this balance (server Noobulous allowed repeater at s1, moving bases was extremely easy - one naked rifle pwns dretches while buildier builds a base in garden room on niveus. Since builder could build rets much faster, chances of succeed were really high.).
- Make human buildings build faster while keeping the ckit reload time the same.
- Advanced ckit buildings start with 15 or 20% health while keeping the same build time.
No, if you make humans building too fast and easy, I'd be nearly impossible to disturb humans' base moves for aliens at s2 vs. s2. And as far I could see building time of rets and medi (which are really important at the beginning of building) is fast enough.
Anyway back to offtopic:
When you need to move arm at spot which is partly blocked by it (like default arm on atcs) it's just a waste of time to make another one and then move first. Especially when you have to build some rets too.
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When you need to move arm at spot which is partly blocked by it (like default arm on atcs) it's just a waste of time to make another one and then move first. Especially when you have to build some rets too.
Make human buildings pushable ;D
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Just bear in mind that balance in a game like tremulous doesn't have to mean giving both teams the same ability (in this case, the ability to move thier base). I would like to think a more mobile human base would be fun, but it might just shift the focus away from combat too much. I'd like to see these alternatives tested.
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Anyway back to offtopic:
When you need to move arm at spot which is partly blocked by it (like default arm on atcs) it's just a waste of time to make another one and then move first. Especially when you have to build some rets too.
It is a waste of time for you, but if you don't do it, then you're wasting everyone else's time.
As for the rest of your post: The whole point is making human base moves easier. Just as marked decon does.
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Anyway back to offtopic:
When you need to move arm at spot which is partly blocked by it (like default arm on atcs) it's just a waste of time to make another one and then move first. Especially when you have to build some rets too.
It is a waste of time for you, but if you don't do it, then you're wasting everyone else's time.
As for the rest of your post: The whole point is making human base moves easier. Just as marked decon does.
1) I prefer to make my team not having arm for 15 secs and be able to build at least 2 bonus rets. Not to mention that arm isn't used THAT often
2) And my post was telling you to don't make human moves so easily. As I said in my last wall of text in this thread, aliens' bases are easy to move and easy to destroy. Humans' bases in other hand are hard to move and hard to destroy. I agree it's ABIT harder to move it than destroy it, but it doesn't mean we should give humans instant building and unlimited rc range. As Nux said
Just bear in mind that balance in a game like tremulous doesn't have to mean giving both teams the same ability (in this case, the ability to move thier base).
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Yes I am excited for 1.2 However, there are many details I beleive should be added. One of the main things should be gametypes. search for the post. Tremulous Needs Gametypes. Cause it does. Yerrr.
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DNF died. 1.2 will come out first (or, more likely, never).
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instead of editing the turrets why didnt they come up with a new structure and make turrets s2
i had a few ideas
this one i got from staring at a fish tank, some sort of contraption you place on the ceiling with three "guns" that release energy spurts sort of like the lucifer cannon but slower and maybe half or a quarter of the damage?
From staring at ACTS and seeing how people like the tesla coils
if you look in this image (http://www.the-nextlevel.com/reviews/gamecube/sonic-heroes/sonic-heroes-3.jpg)
sorry i couldnt find a better one. but theres an energy gate infront of that ramp
you could have two tall poles (tall enough they dont fit in the side indents which leaves them exposed for the aliens to still be able to attack) that can be placed inside the base or outside the center door that have plasma or energy or whatever inbetween them.
just to make it fair and semi realistic when humans get near like the doors it shuts off and after a brief time delay (maybe enough for a oretch to get through) it reactivates
i cant think of two much from that unless you wanted to have a map with a like... teleporter so that the bases are seperate from the arena
which leaves you to either destroy the teleporters to trap them in the base or since the humans are more mobile in 1.2 to make them move their base elsewhere. but i have a feeling most of the people who have been playing a while will just build new teleporters and put turrets near them
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wut
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aimless (http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/data/media/19/meandering-river_3404.jpg)
<tag>zonik (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5861041605628565414)<untag>
wandering (http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Art/HEALTH/070319/AP_MIND_WANDERING.widec.gif)
can i git a wut wut?
(dewd, try a lil o' teh ol "4mat ur text plz" (http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/ahh_my_eyes.gif))
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I was excited... in 2007.
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DNF died. 1.2 will come out first (or, more likely, never).
Well, I bet you feel stupid now.
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nice necro
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-_- This is almost as bad as FrozenSand, who make Urban Terror... 4.2 was due to be minor fixes, but the never released it and suddenly claimed it will be a complete remake... Please go faster, DarkLegion Development....
I appreciate the work but the suspense is too much!
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DNF died. 1.2 will come out first (or, more likely, never).
Well, I bet you feel stupid now.
Kick in the tits. Or the testes. Or something.
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Anybody have news?
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Anybody have news?
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http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12403.0
http://tremulous.net/files/
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?board=19.0
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I used to be excited. But now I have come to realize that 1.2 is never coming.
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I used to be excited. But now I have come to realize that 1.2 is never coming.
It is coming like a baby coming out of its mother's womb. But it is coming so slowly that it is dying in the process.
Even if it lives it will have brain damage for sure.
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1.1 yayyyy.