Are you excited for 1.2?

[Atom Eve]

this thread is rapidly turning into the "when is 1.2 coming out" thread. you would save yourself a lot of bother to realise that not only will 1.2 will never come out, but the crappy mgdev changes that every hates because they are "too stupid" is not 1.2 but just a mod which less people play then tremx.

I lol'd.

[Critters]

GO NUX!!! you argued well.

There are no "fools" in this world. It is mostly people making mistakes or people doing dumb stuff. Wars are won by numbers or smart moves. It is won by smart people on the other side doing somthing dumb.

But tremx?

that is all i play. Not many people want to wait for the 2 kb/s to download 2.5 mb. That is most likly the reason. i waited for over an hour and im glad I did. Also not every one knows about the auto download.

The tremulous team should really look at tremX and see what they can do to make it better.
I have to say it is the best mod for tremulous. It is basicly tremulous 2.0. You can tell the creater tried to make TremX more even for both teams but he/she failed in the fact that they made a adv.tyrant. Even with invis humies and the Xeals the aliens mostly always win still. If anything they should make 1.2 more even or just make a tremulous 2.0.

[Atom Eve]

It is basicly tremulous 2.0. You can tell the creater tried to make TremX more even for both teams

It's funny you say that, considering that his stated goal when he started out was to break Tremulous.

[techhead]

TremX has everything you can think of when it comes to Tremulous. Except balance. If our changes end up with something resembling balance, we confidently assure you, it was a complete accident.
Invisibility
Grenade Launchers
Uber-lasers
Ammo packs
Force Fields
Et cetera, ad nauseam
Screw balance, who needs it?

All joking aside, I actually support MGDev as a whole, although I do disagree with some specific changes (20 hp dretch, 60 hp basi, and 80 hp adv basi. Why change B to compenaste for previous change A, when change A could be toned down) and I believe some other changes were a little too "over the top" (Lucifer, range of barb splash).
But as a whole, I support it, play on it whenever someone else is there, and I think that they will smooth any kinks out in the end.

EDIT: I looked at the recent changes, and Barb splash range was fixed an hour and a half ago. Told ya they are still working on it!

[Lakitu7]

The most recent things are always the most frequently changing. The mortar-style barbs is the most recent thing.

[Nux]

The New Build System (the one I don't like)

1. As a human builder I am able to replace our only two telenodes with an armoury. In the old system you couldn't decon multiple things at once like you are able to now. This is far worse than it used to be. Just because a deconner has to build a new thing while deconning old doesn't mean he can't disrupt the game just as much as ever (quite possibly even more so).

2. You may as well mark all buildings for decon as soon as you build them since this allows you to make insanely simple base moves when it's attacked. If ever you have a particular building you want deconned (because it's being camped by aliens) you can then just unmark the safe buildings next to you that might get replaced and build your new one. Once everything's in order, you can then mark it all for decon again.

Since this is the best strategy (where incompetent builders aren't a threat) it might as well be default for the building to be marked for decon. That said, I am opposed to this system and would prefer to be rid of the marking system all together.

3. Having structures just disappear with nobody around it is like having people shoot lasers out of their ass. It looks stupid and isn't fair on their bewildered enemies.

Can I have some comments?

[kevlarman]

1. As a human builder I am able to replace our only two telenodes with an armoury. In the old system you couldn't decon multiple things at once like you are able to now. This is far worse than it used to be. Just because a deconner has to build a new thing while deconning old doesn't mean he can't disrupt the game just as much as ever (quite possibly even more so).

no, you aren't.

[Nux]

I AM able to do this actually, since I just tried it out. Am I to understand the version I just used is out-dated? If so, good.

Now how about the problem of deconners replacing all but one node with some structure to impede the spawn queue and building the reactor where the aliens can keep it. Before, if the deconner wanted to give the aliens the reac he would need to decon, run from the human base to the alien base, then build again- in which time the reac can be rebuilt at the human base again. Now the deconner can start building it somewhere else before anyone even notices it's gone.

How about the only armoury? Can I replace that with something else? Or any vital structure for that matter?

What if I WANT to replace all the nodes with an armoury as a swift tactical move? (though this is perhaps an unlikely case, perhaps we've all spawned in a small space and need an armoury to buy equipment from).

[techhead]

I think that buildings deconned should have a unique death animation, without the explosion of course. It would be preferable to the buildings simply disappearing. Of course, the BBox would dissappear, allowing players and other buildings to go through them.
Aliens could probably substitute the normal death animation, followed by the model disappearing, followed by the creep decal shrinking away.
Humans would need death animations that suggested the buildings being dismantled or such.

[Critters]

 Why change B to compenaste for previous change A.

EDIT: I looked at the recent changes, and Barb splash range was fixed an hour and a half ago. Told ya they are still working on it!

@ change B thing: Well maybe they shouldn't have changed A. The should make B stronger. Not only would it make it more fun but also more even.

@ EDIT: Well at least that gives me some comfort, to know maybe they are taking the feed back in, but they should really listen to the players. Not just go on your own theorys. That would make 1.2 much better.
(I really hope MG sees this topic and post. It will do them good)

[player1]

STFU+GTFO

[Critters]

STFU+GTFO

English please?

[mooseberry]

He says: Shut the F*** up and get the F*** out.

[player1]

STFU+GTFO

English please?

Yes, you're definitely a gamer.

[mooseberry]

STFU+GTFO

English please?

Yes, you're definitely a gamer.

Ya if you don't know what that means you don't have a life!!! 

[techhead]

@ change B thing: Well maybe they shouldn't have changed A. The should make B stronger. Not only would it make it more fun but also more even.

Exactly my point.

In the case of HP, each change A are as follows:
Dretch BBox reduced from 30² to 24², and was thus harder to hit and had their HP reduced. I am somewhat for that change, as I said that Dretch models were tiny compared to their BBoxes. This change was coupled with increasing the size of the model by 1.2 times. It also added the problem of dretch fitting into certain holes in certain maps, including arachnid.
Basilisk became perhaps too powerful, and the Adv. Basi had a staggering 9 hp/sec regen. HP was lowered, and now Adv. Basi can heal to full in 9 seconds flat.

[FisherP]

I signed up for their forum. And posted in the feedback thread, that the turrets move to slow.

They said that is how it is going to be. It will "prevent" camping.......

LOL
Hummies camp becuase they get killed in outside of base. Now they made the turrets painfily slow, therefor lettng you get killed not only outside base but also inside.

When i said that they prettey much said go away...and so i did.
I check back at the forum. For just looking and i saw that a few people did agree with me. The the head guy dude. Just seemed to not see them.

I really do mean to necro an old post but for a pretty good reason I think. I found this thread today going through my past posts and seeing if there was anything worthwhile posted long after I stopped reading the thread. I looked at how Critters had made a comment about the turrets and the communities response to his criticism. Admittedly he may have not given the new speed a fair go, but I thought that he was being attacked a bit much but I didn't say anything at the time since I knew very little about the changes to trem.

I decided that I would try and see for myself what he was talking about so this morning I hopped onto MG Dev Server No 1 (no-one but me there of course) and I discovered that the turrets indeed turned VERY rapidly. Faster it seems than 1.1. I'm not complaining about the turret speed. If this server (svn 1024 dated Dec 12 2008 or something quite near it)  is the closest we have to 1.2 then I think Critters point was valid and the dev's have changed the speed. My point? It seems that people are too eager to destroy others points of view without due consideration. I hope that I have made my point clear.

[kevlarman]

the turrets have always turned much faster than 1.1 (it was either the first or second balance change ever, i don't remember which at this point).

[Annihilation]

the turrets have always turned much faster than 1.1 (it was either the first or second balance change ever, i don't remember which at this point).

I remember them being faster firing once they locked on, but taking longer to lock on, though its been a while since I've played it.  I thought, however, this was the reason dretches lost the ability to damage rets, because it was too easy to avoid that lock on and certain excellent dretches could decimate the entire human base in less than a minute.

[kevlarman]

the turrets have always turned much faster than 1.1 (it was either the first or second balance change ever, i don't remember which at this point).

I remember them being faster firing once they locked on, but taking longer to lock on, though its been a while since I've played it.  I thought, however, this was the reason dretches lost the ability to damage rets, because it was too easy to avoid that lock on and certain excellent dretches could decimate the entire human base in less than a minute.

they take 750ms to "spin up" after they are locked onto a target before they fire, but their actual turn rate is quite a bit faster than in 1.1 (in 1.1, if you can manage to get the turrets pointing in the wrong direction, it becomes very easy to do something like hop onto the reactor or chomp a pair of humans and take next to no damage, on mgdev a turret facing in the wrong direction takes almost no time to get pointed in the right one)

[temple]

Sorry guys but human players actually have to shoot aliens now.  I know it is hard to adjust but its for the better.

I think the sum of all the changes works well together.  It feels different but not worse.

[FisherP]

It seems that my point was missed somehow. :S

My point was that it seems that flaming is easier than being constructive or even ignoring posts.

[Archangel]

1.2: THE LEGEND

[Urcscumug]

The recycle flag on structures in 1.2 is brilliant and another welcome addition. And it eliminates (or at least curves) deconning problems.

On the downside of the strategy changes, there is the higher learning curve (FPS-wise), and the adaptation period for 1.1 veterans (strategy-wise). But I got the impression that people who went to MGDev games were quite pleased with the overall feeling.

It's clear that 1.2 will change tactics quite a bit for both humans and aliens. It should, in theory, provide for much more action and more dynamic games all around.

"Camping" usually implies humans are doing it, but in fact in 1.1 both humans and aliens are camping: humans in their base, the aliens just outside it. For humans, in 1.1 there's this general feeling of clinging to the base as a nice warm and safe place and going out only for bright-eyed and bushy-tailed hit-and-runs. As for the aliens, they develop a feeling of owning the rest of the map and think they can take their time, stay outside the human base laughing and joking at their expense in between short hit-and-runs for snacks, and generally make a slumber party of it. It comes across as some sort of kids movie; the little boys' treehouse vs the little girls' pajama party.

1.2 will force decent human players to give up their warm secure blanky and roam the map more, which in turn will cut the aliens short on their feeling superior and in control.

However, I don't personally feel that this will be a perfect and complete solution to camping, anymore than recyclable structures are a perfect and complete solution to deconning. If humans want to camp there are probably camp configurations that will allow it to certain extent. Old habits hard to break and all that. Not to mention there will always be the dumb players who don't get armor and get head pounced in their own base.

Anyway, I've got a suggestion: change the sound on the turret fire for 1.2. Something a bit lower perhaps, coarser, more rough, more "mean" that the 1.1 sound. I think that FPS players base their behaviour on all kinds of external stimuli and sound makes no exception. The coarser sound should serve to get across the feeling that the turret damage is different now. It would help aliens adjust better by linking the different sound to a different set of reactions and create a new set of "muscle memory".

[Archangel]

The recycle flag on structures in 1.2 is brilliant and another welcome addition. And it eliminates (or at least curves) deconning problems.

A good deal of 1.1 servers have had this as well, just not with the cgame additions.

On the downside of the strategy changes, there is the higher learning curve (FPS-wise), and the adaptation period for 1.1 veterans (strategy-wise). But I got the impression that people who went to MGDev games were quite pleased with the overall feeling.
It's clear that 1.2 will change tactics quite a bit for both humans and aliens. It should, in theory, provide for much more action and more dynamic games all around.

Putting it lightly.

"Camping" usually implies humans are doing it, but in fact in 1.1 both humans and aliens are camping: humans in their base, the aliens just outside it. For humans, in 1.1 there's this general feeling of clinging to the base as a nice warm and safe place and going out only for bright-eyed and bushy-tailed hit-and-runs. As for the aliens, they develop a feeling of owning the rest of the map and think they can take their time, stay outside the human base laughing and joking at their expense in between short hit-and-runs for snacks, and generally make a slumber party of it. It comes across as some sort of kids movie; the little boys' treehouse vs the little girls' pajama party.
1.2 will force decent human players to give up their warm secure blanky and roam the map more, which in turn will cut the aliens short on their feeling superior and in control.

You, apparently, don't play on any good servers. It is rarely like this when you're playing with equal opponents.

[cactusfrog]

well the animations are awesome and maybe they will import the flying alien.

[Urcscumug]

You, apparently, don't play on any good servers. It is rarely like this when you're playing with equal opponents.

Granted. But is that the norm or rather the exception? I'd venture to say that the vast majority of Tremulous players are average at best.

[player1]

Off Topic: "average at best" <-- great name for a clan

On Topic: i liek taht "new stimuli for new effects" idea

[Amanieu]

At hs1, goons own the map. At as3, rants own the map. This is IMO the major balance issue with the game.

[Kaine]

Ahhh, but humans have that critical Stage Two to rampage through the aliens base.

And really now, a rant isn't so bad if you have a saw, chaingun, luci, or teammate handy.