1.2 Gameplay Changes

[jit]

I played the beta and liked it, but to me it just feels like one of those games that you leave to collect dust once you beat it. I'm looking foward to the full release of 1.2 when its done.

ya bro. once they add a new HUD and then the claws for aliens and the new weapon details. trem might look good. but if they add like 3 more alien classes and a few more guns. trem will be so much better.

[Conzul]

Played a bunch more, I think it'll work.
Learned to rape with the basic Dragoon, the Dretch, and Basic Rifle. (requires much more skill and focus than 1.1)
Found out that like in 1.1, the team which is on the ball will win.
Found that the Lucifer Cannon isn't that overpowered, you just gotta intercept it before it's in your base.

Only problems: Dretch is worth too much if you kill it.
               ROF for the Pulse Rifle is a bit too much, should be closer to 3/4 or 2/3 of what it is.
               Given it's ROF, secondary shot for the Lucifer Cannon should do more damage.

Observations:  Jetpack seems to have been left behind, I almost never see it in use.
               Chokepoints are the friends of humans, never aliens (Uncreation, anyone?)
               Human bases must be built with care, or they won't last you one respawn. (atcs, any setup where the aliens spawn near hBase).
               Found an application for the tyrant, I can park it in front of the Overmind and go do something else, that way the first
               shots won't hurt the OM, and I'm helping my team.
               After 5-10 games I'm wasted. 1.2 doesn't seem as recreational as 1.1, more hardcore like BF 2142 or a Ghost Recon game.

[HellsAngelz]

After a lot of trolling, complaining, and perspective, i've come up with some points about 1.2 i'd like to make.

The  grab range cannot be further than the swipe range. At the very least make them equal.
As i've said before, you cannot grab someone before you smash their face in. You can do both at the same time, but generally your first will reach the face before you can grab their neck.
Obviously the Tremulous devs don't know how to fight, which makes the basilisk a pussy alien. So what if it has healing aura, that doesn't make it the healer. Tyrant in 1.1 had healing aura and he also had 400 fucking hitpoints, you cut down basi health and then give it healing aura?

gg. in a "Oh boy Hells is trolling and mega pissed again" way.

[HellsAngelz]

OH MY GOD!!!

MAKE THE BASILISK GRAB TOGGLEABLE!

Think about it.
Most experienced or inexperienced basi players will notice the disorienting problem when they don't know when they'll grab, and at times get stuck because they're grabbing when they don't know it. Make it the basi's choice to grab or not, don't force it. Have it an instance like zap, barb, etc, and I swear people will love the concept. Only lazy people want an automatic basi grab.


By the way, I think a lot of pro's find it frustrating because some noob who doesn't even know how to bind, and has 200 more hours experience in 1.2, can outkill them.
I found that out the hard way today.

Please devs consider the toggle for basi grab, i'm going to be late for school cause of this post. lol. XD

[Asvarox]

1) I see no reason why you would want grab toggleable, as it basically doesn't have any disadvantages, it doesn't slow down/stop the lisk. Well, it makes a sound (which theoretically might be a problem, but I can't find any practical situation where could be). It works just like auto repair for ckit.

2) Well if someone played 200h of GPP and then kicked your ass, this means that he's just better than you. Knowing how to bind doesn't make you shoot better. Norf has like 100 times bigger knowledge about trem than me, and I can still kick his ass 

[khalsa]

After a lot of trolling, complaining, and perspective, i've come up with some points about 1.2 i'd like to make.

The  grab range cannot be further than the swipe range. At the very least make them equal.
As i've said before, you cannot grab someone before you smash their face in. You can do both at the same time, but generally your first will reach the face before you can grab their neck.
Obviously the Tremulous devs don't know how to fight, which makes the basilisk a pussy alien. So what if it has healing aura, that doesn't make it the healer. Tyrant in 1.1 had healing aura and he also had 400 fucking hitpoints, you cut down basi health and then give it healing aura?

gg. in a "Oh boy Hells is trolling and mega pissed again" way.

Haha.

Please realise that ALIENS are not Humans, and don't have fists. It's extremely conceivable that the basilisk grabs with it's arms, but only deals damage with it's mouth. So that grab range can very easily be longer than swipe, or something.

[FreaK]

Obviously the Tremulous devs don't know how to fight, which makes the basilisk a pussy alien. So what if it has healing aura, that doesn't make it the healer. Tyrant in 1.1 had healing aura and he also had 400 fucking hitpoints, you cut down basi health and then give it healing aura?

What are you trying to say here? Giving the basi the healing aura was a great idea. It was probably the most underused alien in 1.1, now it is used a lot more and is so important to the alien team.

[HellsAngelz]

Explain to my why basi attacks with his mouth. He is not a tyrant, he is not a dragoon, he has a small mouth and to be frank if I met one in real life i'd kick it. I wouldn't worry about the tiny thing biting me.
It's small, it has to use it's reach to it's full advantage otherwise it's going to die. Yes, basi was used much less in 1.1, but it was much more theoretically correct and much more effective than a mobile booster.
Hp was cut down, effectiveness of the basi is worse. Trust me, a noob who has no clue what the grab range is going to chase the human and try to bite him then all of a sudden the human stops while the basi is still moving. Dead basi. Toggling basi grab (you can make it on automatic, and have it optional to be toggled off.) it'll just save me a lot of headache and frustration.

[FreaK]

Explain to my why basi attacks with his mouth. He is not a tyrant, he is not a dragoon, he has a small mouth and to be frank if I met one in real life i'd kick it. I wouldn't worry about the tiny thing biting me.
It's small, it has to use it's reach to it's full advantage otherwise it's going to die. Yes, basi was used much less in 1.1, but it was much more theoretically correct and much more effective than a mobile booster.
Hp was cut down, effectiveness of the basi is worse. Trust me, a noob who has no clue what the grab range is going to chase the human and try to bite him then all of a sudden the human stops while the basi is still moving. Dead basi. Toggling basi grab (you can make it on automatic, and have it optional to be toggled off.) it'll just save me a lot of headache and frustration.

I still don't understand what you are arguing about. How was the basi more effective in 1.1? The basi now is a lot more effective than it was in 1.1, and you cannot argue against that. The basi can heal its team and it also has a longer grab range, i'm not too sure about the bite range ( I think that is less than 1.1). The longer grab range makes it 10x easier to grab your target and kill him. Why would you want it to toggle it off and on? I think that would just confuse noobs even more.

[HellsAngelz]

You guys obviously have no experience with basi, it's range was the best attribute to it. So what that they can grab from far away now? They still have to move close to hit, and by the time they get to the human the grab is already reset and the human has moved accordingly. Good game noob basi players, good game.
Oh right while the devs develop the game they forget the fact we're the true players of Trem, we spend more time than they do developing. good game devs, good game. lol.

[FreaK]

You guys obviously have no experience with basi, it's range was the best attribute to it. So what that they can grab from far away now? They still have to move close to hit, and by the time they get to the human the grab is already reset and the human has moved accordingly. Good game noob basi players, good game.
Oh right while the devs develop the game they forget the fact we're the true players of Trem, we spend more time than they do developing. good game devs, good game. lol.

You obviously have no experience with the new basi. If you grab a player with the new lisk and fail to keep that grab then that is your fault and you are not experienced enough. The new lisk is by far easier than the 1.1 lisk, and it is more effective. The rest of your post just shows how stupid you really are, I think you should stop embarrassing yourself with these stupid posts.

[Demolution]

good game devs, good game. lol.

It actually is quite good. You should try playing sometime.

[wolfbr]

seems to be balanced, but still think it needs some adjustments:

exemple: humans weapons> some weapons are powerful considering that the aliens are weaker, especially using teamwork

i have some suggestions.

Humans

painsaw> add overheating bar.

rifle> add more spread reduce the efficiency in medium/long distance, and add 2x scope(for long range,less spread and and movement).

shotgun> easy to hit, the 1.1 shotgun is fine to me.

lasgun> add ammo clip and some spread exemple> 30/40 cells per clip, fast reload(like a half life'S 2 AR2), and add 4x scope(for long range,less spread and and movement) .

Mass Driver> the the 1.1 Mdriver is good in 1.2(and add 4x/8x scope).

chaigun> the 1.2 is good against small aliens, would be improved rifle, the Flamethrower already has the function of killing small aliens(and add overheating bar)

Flamethrower> hum, nice, but, yet it is easy to cause damage to yourself and allies.

Prifle> the speed is good, but, strong. add some spread(this gun would be useful in short distances), and add overheating bar.

Lcannon> i like it, but, i like the old lcannon, could be interesting to have 2 lcannon(close and long range)

in relation to aliens, I have no more suggestions, I'll play a little more aliens to see if I have more ideas that could perhaps help improve the game.

[StevenM]

please DO NOT add any of this.^

[David]

lasgun> add ammo clip and some spread exemple> 30/40 cells per clip, fast reload(like a half life'S 2 AR2), and add 4x scope(for long range,less spread and and movement) .

So what makes the lasgun worth buying then?  No reloads and accuracy are it's thing.  Your way it's just an expensive version of the rifle.


I vote we take all your suggestions, and then half all the aliens damage to make up for it.

[Conzul]

Fuck overheating bars.
Those Ideas are gay. We all know about how the humans have the advantage in offensive power. The diversity you are trying to introduce has no purpose. [mumbles to self] what will they try next? humans that can be controlled by alien hosts? mumble mumble

Oh, and if you need a scope, the map you're playing on is too big.

[wolfbr]

my suggestions are to encourage teamwork, and to diversify the gameplay.
currently(1.2), Battle suit + Lcannon = an army of one man, I do not see many disadvantages in some weapons, I believe that the game would be more fair and balanced.

tremulous 1.1 = Humans afraid of aliens.
tremulous 1.2 = aliens afraid of Humans.

it would be interesting> aliens = humans(both with their differences, pros / cons, different gameplay experience).

what will they try next? humans that can be controlled by alien hosts? mumble mumble

this idea could be interesting if well prepared (i like half life )

[Asvarox]

I am more affraid of rifle battlesuit than lasgun battlesuit.

my suggestions are to encourage teamwork, and to diversify the gameplay.

You really think that changing lasgun and pulse to another versions of riffle or giving half of the weapons "overheating bar" diversifies the gameplay?

The only think I agree with, is the rifle, far too effective as a free weapon. It's much harder to kill few rifles as a dretch than to kill few dretches with a rifle. Maybe reduce ammo in a clip to 25?

Oh, and aliens =/= humans and will never be (unless you make them exactly same)

[wolfbr]

I am more affraid of rifle battlesuit than lasgun battlesuit.

my suggestions are to encourage teamwork, and to diversify the gameplay.

You really think that changing lasgun and pulse to another versions of riffle or giving half of the weapons "overheating bar" diversifies the gameplay?

The only think I agree with, is the rifle, far too effective as a free weapon. It's much harder to kill few rifles as a dretch than to kill few dretches with a rifle. Maybe reduce ammo in a clip to 25?

Oh, and aliens =/= humans and will never be (unless you make them exactly same)

currently lgun, prifle and chaigun are other versions of rifle, My suggestion would be to diversify the weapons.

exemple:

rifle= free gun, usable in any situation.
lgun= like a assault rilfe, good in medium/long range, slow fireinterval, is not very good at short range.
Prifle = like a SMG, good in close/medium range, is not very good at long range.
chaingun= strong in close range or vs gons and tt, but, is not good against small aliens or long range.

about "overheating bar", help reduce in "bullet spam", crazy psaw and in other things.

[Asvarox]

I am more affraid of rifle battlesuit than lasgun battlesuit.

my suggestions are to encourage teamwork, and to diversify the gameplay.

You really think that changing lasgun and pulse to another versions of riffle or giving half of the weapons "overheating bar" diversifies the gameplay?

The only think I agree with, is the rifle, far too effective as a free weapon. It's much harder to kill few rifles as a dretch than to kill few dretches with a rifle. Maybe reduce ammo in a clip to 25?

Oh, and aliens =/= humans and will never be (unless you make them exactly same)

currently lgun, prifle and chaigun are other versions of rifle, My suggestion would be to diversify the weapons.

exemple:

rifle= free gun, usable in any situation.
lgun= like a assault rilfe, good in medium/long range, slow fireinterval, is not very good at short range.
Prifle = like a SMG, good in close/medium range, is not very good at long range.
chaingun= strong in close range or vs gons and tt, but, is not good against small aliens or long range.

Adding a spread will make them even more similar to rifle, and I fail to understand your point about chaingun or pulse rifle (which, btw, are ineffective on mid/long range already) being similar to rifle

[Conzul]

A few days ago I took out a healthy adv.goon with a lgun in the atcs hall. I had to give it credit, it didn't try to run away. I play with very low mouse sensitivity, as both teams. I literally have to pick my mouse up and move it back across the pad to turn more than 200dregrees. LGUN is awesome, 1.1 and 1.2 I find myself using it well into s2 to get money for s3

[Haraldx]

It's extremely conceivable that the basilisk grabs with it's arms, but only deals damage with it's mouth.

How the heck basi can do damage with its mouth if it has no lower jaw? Look at him guys! he has no lower jaw!

[Conzul]

It's extremely conceivable that the basilisk grabs with it's arms, but only deals damage with it's mouth.

How the heck basi can do damage with its mouth if it has no lower jaw? Look at him guys! he has no lower jaw!

Maybe it tells bad jokes, causing the human to suffer a slow, debilitating brain aneurysm. Coupled with bad gas, bad jokes can be fatal.

[mana]

Giving my 2cent here

playing the 1.2 version for a couple of days (played 1.1 alot) I think it is an improvement overall.

Wether it is balanced or not is hard to say. I recognized though that organized humans seemed much more effective than aliens with a similar level of organization (good builders, coordinated attacks, a goon "wingmen" ..). I have the feeling that this partly is an issue due to the meele-character the aliens have and the design of the maps. Any good example I could make here could get many "but"'s in response and I dont have a solution I can offer. I just somehow saw alien teams loose very clearly quite even though player experience levels "seemed" similar on both teams.

If we look at the main tacticaly relevant attributes of a map (as I see it, please correct me) we see that they may suite humans more often if the map is not very well balanced:

Map attributes:

• big size (good for aliens)
• small size (good for humans)
• wide areas (good for humans)
• small passages (good for humans if map small, good for aliens if map big)

I think we should ask ourself how it can be achieved that the impact of the design of a map on the outcome percentage can be lowered. (Sorry complicated english here) Finding a clever way to reduce alien blocking each other may? One that makes sense in a fun yet "realistic" way.

As an open question: With the increased human base portability (repeater BPs) is that balanced now? Is what aliens got in return enough? :-)

An issue that remains from 1.1 is the starter-friendlyness of the aliens. They are not - It may not be an issue that everyone agrees on but no noob feeds as fast as one in a dretch *g* IMHO.

After this post I might seem like an alien lover but infact I allways use autojoin. But since 1.2 it seems to put me into the alien team alot more often - makes me wonder.

bottom line: good work guys! Lots to do still

cheers
Mana

[Conzul]

Map attributes:

    * big size (good for aliens)
    * small size (good for humans)
    * wide areas (good for humans)
    * small passages (good for humans if map small, good for aliens if map big)

Large maps are never good for the alien team, as they are largely non-prone to building forward bases. Most adv. alien players will dc an forward base attempt by other aliens.

[Bissig]

Map attributes:

    * big size (good for aliens)
    * small size (good for humans)
    * wide areas (good for humans)
    * small passages (good for humans if map small, good for aliens if map big)

Large maps are never good for the alien team, as they are largely non-prone to building forward bases. Most adv. alien players will dc an forward base attempt by other aliens.

Wrong. Due to the fact that aliens move very fast and that they don't need to go back to base to heal, large maps are usually much better for the alien team.

[Colynn']

Off-topic question: Is it possible to use custom HUDs? I plan to create a HUD for 1.2, the default one is ok but I'm tired of it.

[jit]

Off-topic question: Is it possible to use custom HUDs? I plan to create a HUD for 1.2, the default one is ok but I'm tired of it.

im pretty sure you'll be able to. also, i think that 1.2 will have a completely different hud than what we see in gpp.

[David]

Huds in 1.2 AFAIK will work the same as now, however there are some changes to something or other and all the current huds will have to be changed or something.  There's a new cvar (ui_hudFilesEnable maybe?) which defaults to disabling custom huds to stop 1.1 huds breaking the gpp client.  Not sure if that cvar will make it to 1.2 or not.

[Colynn']

It doesn't seem to work.

I created an ui folder in S:\Program Files (x86)\Tremulous\gpp\, and then I put in this HUD.
I launched Tremulous, type cg_hudFiles "ui/orb_hud.cfg" and then "ui_cgHudFilesEnable 1". After that, /devmap atcs.

The screen became strange, I got all the assets displayed and it took me back to the menu with this error.

Code: [Select]

ERROR
Default HUD could not be found

Code: [Select]

----- finished R_Init -----
Loading vm file vm/ui.qvm...
File "vm/ui.qvm" found in
"S:\Users\Gauthier\AppData\Roaming\Tremulous\gpp\vms-gppr1960.pk3"
...which has vmMagic VM_MAGIC_VER2
Loading 811 jump table targets
VM file ui compiled to 673923 bytes of code
ui loaded in 4536672 bytes on the hunk
Loaded 44 of 44 emoticons (MAX_EMOTICONS is 64)
UI menu file 'ui/menus.txt' loaded in 230 msec
UI menu file 'ui/ingame.txt' loaded in 19 msec
UI menu file 'ui/tremulous.txt' loaded in 16 msec
UI help file 'ui/help.txt' loaded in 1 msec (16 infopanes)
File "ui/" found in "S:\Program Files (x86)\Tremulous\gpp\data-gpp1.pk3"
]\condump lol
Dumped console text to lol.
No sign of my "ui/orb_hud.cfg".