Author Topic: 1.2 Gameplay Changes  (Read 1117982 times)

StevenM

  • Posts: 292
  • Turrets: +40/-33
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #330 on: January 21, 2010, 10:46:30 pm »
i dont think youve gotten very used to 1.2 yet powa buddy. its not 1.1 you cant just go and do the same things and expect to be pro. think about it and re-define your game. adaptation/survival thats what its about, darwinism ftw.

bob0

  • Posts: 80
  • Turrets: +11/-9
Re: Tutorial: how to set up sprint and dodge
« Reply #331 on: January 21, 2010, 10:48:56 pm »
Silver, I thank you for actually playing GPP before commenting :).  Contrary to the opinions of several others, I believe that a few hours, usually at least six games, are enough to comment on gameplay.

I was just saying in that one example, a basi easily downed a lot of turrets.  I've seen some set ups that work pretty damn good, but usually especially in open spaces those rets just lock on way to slow and are way to easy to avoid.
Usually, when something only happening a few times or once, it isn't a good reason to dislike it IMO; I think a better reason would to dislike the balance changes is if it's common.  I watched somebody who dretched 5 bsuits in a row, but that doesn't mean much since dretches usually don't get past the first, especially when there are multiple humans.

Aside from that, when non-newbies build, basis usually have a lot of trouble killing the turrets.  I'm willing to contend that basis will be unable to kill more than one turret at a time with most (most) human base setups that worked in 1.1.

I would much rather see that(now dead) A server with the store credits/5,000 dmg granger barbs as 1.2 than this shit norf + mg devs developed.
I'm honestly sorry to hear that you would probably rather play the A / X server (they're the same, right?) than GPP balance.  I would much rather play 1.1 than the X server.  Btw, multiple people outside of MG helped with the implementing the balance, including myself, who's written the most non-trivial (in my opinion) change of the new balance, zone BP.

Quote
I said nothing about change being harder in a narrow space.  You're retarded.  I said that trample is in-effective in a CRAMPED place with lots of pretruding objects that block the majority of the trample from reaching the human.  I think it's better in slightly open places especially ones with clean walls.  Bumpy jagged walls are hard to pin the humans on.
-Trample is only useful in open spaces, a lot of maps lack these.  To narrow of places are way to rough on aliens in general because of their size.  Also, when you can utilize trample properly, it's like 7 tremx Acid Barbs from Advanced Tryants.  Seriously, why the fuck would you want to make Tyrant so shitty in general but then give it one attack if utilized right that can kill an entire fleet of rushing humans in under 700 milliseconds?
By stating that trample is only useful in open spaces, you imply that it's not useful in spaces that are not open.  I, and probably most other active GPP players, agree that trample is much harder in open spaces.  The trick is to corner the human and trample him against against a wall.

Where did you state or imply that trample is only ineffective specifically in cramped places with lots of protruding objects?


Quote
I also didn't say change was harder, I just said it was stupid.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  Did you forget the word "the" while you were referring to the balance changes, or did you mean to type "charge"?  As far as either goes, could you please explain what you mean by saying they are "stupid"?  Both seem pretty intelligent to me ;)

Trample isn't too tough to dodge, btw; even without using "dodge".  I'm also open for convincing otherwise, as with anything else.


Quote
-Marauder slashing is pointless, you can do so much more damage with zap.  Zap is still way overpowered.
I would love to convince you otherwise; I've been practicing! ;)
Also, zap does less damage than a headslash, and zap has longer repeat than slash.

Quote
I actually think 1.2 is easier to play than 1.1.  It just has a lot of stupid features I'm really not a fan of.  This is, however, my and solely my opinion.  Everyone here, has some difference of opinion to some minor degree and no matter what we do, some of us will always think what we think.  It will be hard to effect that.  Even though some of us give up and don't argue, we still hold those opinions.  
I think this would be a good thing, but I disagree with you.  The menus thus far (I think there will be new ones in the final or later on) haven't changed much.  If you're fighting against a person more skilled than you are with the new balance changes, you'll still normally find killing them more difficult.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 10:51:07 pm by Z+ SM p(EEn- »
bob

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #332 on: January 21, 2010, 11:52:49 pm »
i dont think youve gotten very used to 1.2 yet powa buddy. its not 1.1 you cant just go and do the same things and expect to be pro. think about it and re-define your game. adaptation/survival thats what its about, darwinism ftw.

Why adapt to something less enjoyable than the previous version?  

@ bob - you said that I would make newbies think change is harder.  I never said that change was harder, I said it was stupid.  Thats all.  The it-refers to change in that statement.  I think the 1.2 balance changes are stupid.  Clear enough for you?

I re-emphasized the trample stuff later on.  I typed too fast in the first post throwing out quick thoughts.  I think its useful in places that you can turn around, and that the walls aren't jagged.  Even listed a specific map.

You're re-quoting an old quote that we've already discussed with the zap/slash mara stuff.

I was not playing against people more skilled than me and I only lost one round.  My score was always at the top of the list when I played.


Also like I said, I've played about 30 hours on gpp, and over 300 hours on mgdev.


This was the first time I played with balance and testing in mind on gpp though, I usually just check if anyone's on AA and goof off.

I also gave up playing on mgdev a few months before gpp was released. 


I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

bob0

  • Posts: 80
  • Turrets: +11/-9
Re: Tutorial: how to set up sprint and dodge
« Reply #333 on: January 22, 2010, 01:19:41 am »
Btw, I honestly don't care if you're views differ from mine, since there are many GPP players against which to fight :)

you said that I would make newbies think change is harder.  I never said that change was harder, I said it was stupid.  Thats all.  The it-refers to change in that statement.  I think the 1.2 balance changes are stupid.  Clear enough for you?

Btw, Silver, I found your comments slightly amusing, but also slightly annoying, as they can mislead new players.  Oh well, I just hope no new players will believe that a basi can easily penetrate a decently-built human base or that charge is actually harder in narrower places, before trying it out first. :)

If you meant that making change is hard, I don't see how you could interpret my message as that, nor did I intend it to be; or if you meant that that playing with the new balance changes is hard, that's not true, because it's still relative; i.e, an experienced player will most likely have a better time than a more inexperienced player.

Now, I don't mean to be harsh, but I really don't want players to believe the absurd comments (not all of them were) before they playing it themselves.  The perhaps most absurd claim, if not the turrets, is that using a tyrant without charge is worse than using an adv. granger.  Tyrants are faster than adv grangers, deal 100dmg; their range is twice the adv granger's range, and their width is five times the adv granger's width.  Since tyrants are faster, deal more damage, have much more health, and are more lenient with their aim, they are more powerful than adv grangers.  You also claimed that regen is too slow even with basilisks around.  You heal faster next to a basilisk than you would normally in 1.1 balance.

Norfenstein is considering making the Marauder faster, perhaps by increasing their air acceleration.

I also must admit that having reasons for disliking the new balance, no matter how bad they are, is better than just outright baselessly claiming that the new balance sucks.  Thank you. :)
bob

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: Tutorial: how to set up sprint and dodge
« Reply #334 on: January 22, 2010, 01:25:41 am »
Btw, I honestly don't care if you're views differ from mine, since there are many GPP players against which to fight :)

you said that I would make newbies think change is harder.  I never said that change was harder, I said it was stupid.  Thats all.  The it-refers to change in that statement.  I think the 1.2 balance changes are stupid.  Clear enough for you?

Btw, Silver, I found your comments slightly amusing, but also slightly annoying, as they can mislead new players.  Oh well, I just hope no new players will believe that a basi can easily penetrate a decently-built human base or that charge is actually harder in narrower places, before trying it out first. :)

If you meant that making change is hard, I don't see how you could interpret my message as that, nor did I intend it to be; or if you meant that that playing with the new balance changes is hard, that's not true, because it's still relative; i.e, an experienced player will most likely have a better time than a more inexperienced player.

Now, I don't mean to be harsh, but I really don't want players to believe the absurd comments (not all of them were) before they playing it themselves.  The perhaps most absurd claim, if not the turrets, is that using a tyrant without charge is worse than using an adv. granger.  Tyrants are faster than adv grangers, deal 100dmg; their range is twice the adv granger's range, and their width is five times the adv granger's width.  Since tyrants are faster, deal more damage, have much more health, and are more lenient with their aim, they are more powerful than adv grangers.  You also claimed that regen is too slow even with basilisks around.  You heal faster next to a basilisk than you would normally in 1.1 balance.

Norfenstein is considering making the Marauder faster, perhaps by increasing their air acceleration.

I also must admit that having reasons for disliking the new balance, no matter how bad they are, is better than just outright baselessly claiming that the new balance sucks.  Thank you. :)


I thought you said change not charge, my bad.

You took me so literal on the tyrant/adv granger thing to go as far as to attempt and explain the differences.  I can't even begin to think of a cohmprehendable reply to that.  I mean... seriously?

I didn't say healing aura with lisks suck, I said GETTING a lisk on your team sucks.  Not many volunteers and you need your hard hitters for fighting.

The turrets do suck.  Open your fucking eyes.  THEY HAD TO DISABLE DRETCH'S ABILITY TO HURT BASES BECAUSE A DEVELOPER WAS ABLE TO DRETCH ENTIRE BASES WITH EASE.  HOW DOES THAT NOT REGISTER IN YOUR TINY HEAD THAT THE TURRETS ARE TOO SLOW AT AIMING.


I'd appreciate if you'd stop trying to mock me with such ill-regarded compliments also. 


Also, I don't necessarily have anything to comment on the balance but..


THE NEW GAMEPLAY IS COMPLETELY HORSE SHIT
I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

mooseberry

  • Community Moderators
  • *
  • Posts: 4005
  • Turrets: +666/-325
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #335 on: January 22, 2010, 01:38:45 am »
Good to see you're keeping an open mind.  ::)
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन

~Mooseberry.

bob0

  • Posts: 80
  • Turrets: +11/-9
Re: Tutorial: how to set up sprint and dodge
« Reply #336 on: January 22, 2010, 01:42:02 am »
You took me so literal on the tyrant/adv granger thing to go as far as to attempt and explain the differences.  I can't even begin to think of a cohmprehendable reply to that.  I mean... seriously?
Yes, because several of the other comments were absurd too.

Quote
I didn't say healing aura with lisks suck, I said GETTING a lisk on your team sucks.  Not many volunteers and you need your hard hitters for fighting.
It's perhaps true that getting a lisk on your team sucks, but you did imply in your post that healing aura with lisks suck:
Quote
The regen is too slow, even with lisks around.

Quote
The turrets do suck.  Open your fucking eyes.
They deal more damage each second and have longer range, in exchange for the spin-up.  They can be very powerful.  My favorite place for them in niveus is in the window room.  They're totally deadly there.

Quote
THEY HAD TO DISABLE DRETCH'S ABILITY TO HURT BASES BECAUSE A DEVELOPER WAS ABLE TO DRETCH ENTIRE BASES WITH EASE.
Wrong.  That's not the reason for the change.  Dretches can also be deadly to a building base.  I've played many games in which a building RC was dretched.

Quote
HOW DOES THAT NOT REGISTER IN YOUR TINY HEAD THAT THE TURRETS ARE TOO SLOW AT AIMING.
If turrets aim too slow now, then it was even worse in 1.1, since they aim twice as fast now; however they do have a spinup.

Looks like silver's taking over for me in more than just the server. =D
And he's done a great job.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 01:45:26 am by Z+ SM p(EEn- »
bob

kevlarman

  • Posts: 2737
  • Turrets: +291/-295
Re: Tutorial: how to set up sprint and dodge
« Reply #337 on: January 22, 2010, 01:57:55 am »
Quote
THEY HAD TO DISABLE DRETCH'S ABILITY TO HURT BASES BECAUSE A DEVELOPER WAS ABLE TO DRETCH ENTIRE BASES WITH EASE.
Wrong.  That's not the reason for the change.  Dretches can also be deadly to a building base.  I've played many games in which a building RC was dretched.
no, that's exactly the reason. however allowing small aliens to get past the turrets was the entire point of the change. if a basilisk could hide behind a single turret without getting shot at, that's the builder's fault.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

bob0

  • Posts: 80
  • Turrets: +11/-9
Re: Tutorial: how to set up sprint and dodge
« Reply #338 on: January 22, 2010, 02:30:40 am »
Quote
THEY HAD TO DISABLE DRETCH'S ABILITY TO HURT BASES BECAUSE A DEVELOPER WAS ABLE TO DRETCH ENTIRE BASES WITH EASE.
Wrong.  That's not the reason for the change.  Dretches can also be deadly to a building base.  I've played many games in which a building RC was dretched.
no, that's exactly the reason. however allowing small aliens to get past the turrets was the entire point of the change. if a basilisk could hide behind a single turret without getting shot at, that's the builder's fault.

Oh.  I was wrong there.  I should have looked at the reason, first. :)
It's a good reason, anyhow.
bob

KillerWhale

  • Spam Killer
  • *
  • Posts: 469
  • Turrets: +63/-26
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #339 on: January 22, 2010, 02:55:50 am »
If you think the new turrets are bad, you really need to see a proficient builder use them.
A good builder can make the new turrets absolutely devastating; more so than the 1.1 turrets.

If you build like it's 1.1, they're going to suck.
If you build like it's 1.2, they're going to be amazing.

You decide.

FreaK

  • Posts: 295
  • Turrets: +45/-59
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #340 on: January 22, 2010, 03:06:34 am »
If you think the new turrets are bad, you really need to see a proficient builder use them.
A good builder can make the new turrets absolutely devastating; more so than the 1.1 turrets.

If you build like it's 1.1, they're going to suck.
If you build like it's 1.2, they're going to be amazing.

You decide.
+1 if you build a good base in 1.2 everything gets raped.

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #341 on: January 22, 2010, 03:55:45 am »
If you think the new turrets are bad, you really need to see a proficient builder use them.
A good builder can make the new turrets absolutely devastating; more so than the 1.1 turrets.

If you build like it's 1.1, they're going to suck.
If you build like it's 1.2, they're going to be amazing.

You decide.
+1 if you build a good base in 1.2 everything gets raped.

Which only emphasizes the human overpowered thing.  It also helps increase human camping.

I also have to disagree, any base, unguarded in 1.2 is easier to kill than any 1.1 base.  Which means the turrets are less effective.
I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

mooseberry

  • Community Moderators
  • *
  • Posts: 4005
  • Turrets: +666/-325
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #342 on: January 22, 2010, 04:14:09 am »
If you think the new turrets are bad, you really need to see a proficient builder use them.
A good builder can make the new turrets absolutely devastating; more so than the 1.1 turrets.

If you build like it's 1.1, they're going to suck.
If you build like it's 1.2, they're going to be amazing.

You decide.
+1 if you build a good base in 1.2 everything gets raped.

Which only emphasizes the human overpowered thing.  It also helps increase human camping.

I also have to disagree, any base, unguarded in 1.2 is easier to kill than any 1.1 base.  Which means the turrets are less effective.

... So you agree that they are better, but that makes humans overpowered, but you also disagree and think that the turrets are less effective. Also better turrets somehow equals more camping? Ok.
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन

~Mooseberry.

bob0

  • Posts: 80
  • Turrets: +11/-9
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #343 on: January 22, 2010, 05:19:19 am »
This is a good niveus base.  Of course, it's not impossible to destroy it, but it's pretty tough to hurt.

These turrets are well placed.

Quote
15 -244.0162048 -22.0350731 63.0625004 0.0 -46.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 -46.0 1.0 2 0 0.0
10 -530.0811768 458.0515289 228.0625000 0.0 117.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 -330.0 295.0358948 1.0 2 0 0.0
9 -534.0731384 336.0407196 212.0625000 0.0 -179.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 -179.0 1.0 0 0 0.0
9 -361.0417786 175.0383087 212.0625000 0.0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 1.0 1.0 0 0 0.0
1 1328.0 224.0 303.0125000 0.0 405.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 405.0 0.0 0 0 0.0
12 -364.0313721 -52.0143719 13.0625000 0.0 -1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 -1.0 1.0 2 0 0.0
14 -330.0547119 27.0262064 7.0625000 0.0 -44.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 -44.0 1.0 2 0 0.0
10 -591.0699280 83.035957 20.0625000 0.0 -80.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 -358.0762177 59.0353149 1.0 2 0 0.0
1 928.0 -144.0 207.0125000 0.0 217.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 217.0 0.0 0 0 0.0
1 1272.0 -16.0 303.0125000 0.0 315.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 315.0 0.0 0 0 0.0
10 -591.0362854 412.0197449 20.0625000 0.0 96.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 -358.062347 321.0634277 1.0 2 0 0.0
2 1488.0 128.0 303.0125000 0.0 17.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 17.0 0.0 0 0 0.0
4 1136.0 0.0 254.0406281 0.0 0.0 0.0 -0.0600000 0.0 0.0800000 30.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0.0
10 -548.0219543 -34.0392651 68.0625000 0.0 -135.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0 -135.0 1.0 2 0 0.0
4 1480.0 -96.0 303.0125000 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0.0
10 -614.0336365 255.0940186 20.0625000 0.0 -177.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0 -177.0 1.0 2 0 0.0
10 -219.0422424 548.0461853 20.0625000 0.0 42.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0 42.0 1.0 2 0 0.0
4 928.0 240.0 207.0125000 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 30.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0.0
10 -467.0594543 491.0838898 84.0625000 0.0 -145.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0 -145.0 1.0 2 0 0.0

I think the window room is the best location for the human base in Niveus, but it's hard to move there.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 05:21:12 am by Z+ SM p(EEn- »
bob

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #344 on: January 22, 2010, 05:36:09 am »
If you think the new turrets are bad, you really need to see a proficient builder use them.
A good builder can make the new turrets absolutely devastating; more so than the 1.1 turrets.

If you build like it's 1.1, they're going to suck.
If you build like it's 1.2, they're going to be amazing.

You decide.
+1 if you build a good base in 1.2 everything gets raped.

Which only emphasizes the human overpowered thing.  It also helps increase human camping.

I also have to disagree, any base, unguarded in 1.2 is easier to kill than any 1.1 base.  Which means the turrets are less effective.

... So you agree that they are better, but that makes humans overpowered, but you also disagree and think that the turrets are less effective. Also better turrets somehow equals more camping? Ok.

No, I think the base as a whole is more effective if built right.  I think the turrets themselves are less effective though because of the spin up time.  Better turrets lead to better camping, not more camping.  In hand though, that can lead to more camping, if it's more effective to as the base can hold off things better.  Also, the base alone, is easier to kill than an empty 1.1 base(discluding rc hops) if you understand how to move fast enough.  You can usually get 1 turret with no damage, where in 1.1 unless you were good at using the rets to block each other you almost always lost a fair bit of hp to get a ret or two.  

The bases are more effective, the the turrets as individuals are less effective.  I know it sounds like a weird concept, but it really makes sense if you think about it.  


--Edit---


Before we continue any further.

I just wanted to clarify, while a lot of my posts are written out of pettyness and an attempt to mock.(or at least appear that way)  I'm only doing these posts because I care.  I want 1.2 to be something I feel is successful and in the end I know probably none to very very little of my feedback will ever produce any outcomes towards the game itself.  But how can I sit back and bitch about 1.2 later if I don't feel that I put every ounce of effort I could into assisting it's production.  I'm going to try and keep the flames down and be less offensive because it's only making me sound like an idiotic hot-head.  It's not my intention, I'm just semi-overstressing from work and stuff and then attempting to use witty-sarcasm but I'm failing pretty bad.

On the other perspective.  Please understand this, not all of my posts are thorough and induce my entire thought-train.  They will also contain mistakes.  I am only human and I miss-interpet things and sometimes have difficulties explaining myself to the details I would like to.  Please try not to take my posts as literal as you can and look more at the concept of my suggestion.  Make sure you're understanding all perspectives of my view points before you're fast to troll it if you're going to reply.  I want to question every change because thats the only way I can begin to understand it and make a well-founded decision about it.  So just as I will question your questions, question my questions.  Thats the only way all of us can be productive and mature.

Sorry for being immaturish and trollish.  Please work with me to understand I'm not trying to be an ass, it's just my nature.

I hope to play a lot of gpp games, and give some well educated feedback that can be helpful, but in the end I will still stand by my opinion, and so far my opinion is not in favor of gpp.  I like 1.1's gameplay more.  Cheers hope to see you all in game.   ;)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 05:51:52 am by Silver »
I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

bob0

  • Posts: 80
  • Turrets: +11/-9
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #345 on: January 22, 2010, 06:49:20 am »
Before we continue any further.

I just wanted to clarify, while a lot of my posts are written out of pettyness and an attempt to mock.(or at least appear that way)  I'm only doing these posts because I care.  I want 1.2 to be something I feel is successful and in the end I know probably none to very very little of my feedback will ever produce any outcomes towards the game itself.  But how can I sit back and bitch about 1.2 later if I don't feel that I put every ounce of effort I could into assisting it's production.  I'm going to try and keep the flames down and be less offensive because it's only making me sound like an idiotic hot-head.  It's not my intention, I'm just semi-overstressing from work and stuff and then attempting to use witty-sarcasm but I'm failing pretty bad.

On the other perspective.  Please understand this, not all of my posts are thorough and induce my entire thought-train.  They will also contain mistakes.  I am only human and I miss-interpet things and sometimes have difficulties explaining myself to the details I would like to.  Please try not to take my posts as literal as you can and look more at the concept of my suggestion.  Make sure you're understanding all perspectives of my view points before you're fast to troll it if you're going to reply.  I want to question every change because thats the only way I can begin to understand it and make a well-founded decision about it.  So just as I will question your questions, question my questions.  Thats the only way all of us can be productive and mature.

Sorry for being immaturish and trollish.  Please work with me to understand I'm not trying to be an ass, it's just my nature.

I hope to play a lot of gpp games, and give some well educated feedback that can be helpful, but in the end I will still stand by my opinion, and so far my opinion is not in favor of gpp.  I like 1.1's gameplay more.  Cheers hope to see you all in game.   ;)
Well written :)

As far as whether or not stronger turrets affect camping goes, I don't believe the result is much different.  Stronger bases can encourage and enable humans to leave their base, but they also makes camping more effective.  Players will benefit from sitting in their base since it's the safest place in which to be and most dangerous for aliens, while they also need at least a little defence.  GPP certainly doesn't fix the problem of camping.  The proper solution to camping is to require them to go outside their base for resources (BP, free funds, etc.).  This concept was originally implemented by Risujin.

I still play on 1.1 servers occasionally, and I like GPP's gameplay more; but that's just my opinion, of course.

Since the matter of FF seems to be an issue, I'll say this: I sometimes prefer FF on when I'm playing with decently skilled and decently behaved players.  Teamkillers can get really annoying; newbies with horrible aim can too, but they're usually easily avoidable.  I don't have a strong opinion about friendly fire.  I'm just glad that Norf's "going to try to make the game acceptable to people that have either opinion".  Unless I missed something, I'm fairly sure that the decision to turn FF off was, if not to not ignore balance for that setting, a bit arbitrary, and to later turn FF on, perhaps most importantly to balance for it.

Edit: Btw, I'm writing this post without much thought after a long an stressful day, and I'll think about edits tomorrow since kevlarman seems to think this post is spam.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 07:09:11 am by Z+ SM p(EEn- »
bob

jit

  • Posts: 258
  • Turrets: +4/-13
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #346 on: January 22, 2010, 07:23:00 am »
i actually like the 1.2 turrets and i don't think they make humans overpowered. the same amount of rets in 1.2 can be more effective than in 1.1 if you use them correctly. also, gpp is a lot funner than 1.1. something more difficult is always funner as along as its not too difficult.

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #347 on: January 22, 2010, 07:28:36 am »
i actually like the 1.2 turrets and i don't think they make humans overpowered. the same amount of rets in 1.2 can be more effective than in 1.1 if you use them correctly. also, gpp is a lot funner than 1.1. something more difficult is always funner as along as its not too difficult.

I don't think it's more difficult.  They designed it to lower the learning curve, making lisk and mara easier/more valuable to use.

I do like that the building process is more complicated, however.  It gives it more of an RTS feel.  I just don't quite like the rets, I feel they should deal slightly less damage and have a little better spin up range.  Also teslas should be less like shocking and more like a pulsing pushback.  To help keep maras from raping.  They should do minor shock damage, and be able to do some kind of knockback every 2-3 seconds.  That'd be better than a constant minor knockback.
I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

StevenM

  • Posts: 292
  • Turrets: +40/-33
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #348 on: January 23, 2010, 06:00:16 am »
i like the slower turrets. if some d-bag is just standing on them, its alot easier to take him/her out and make your escape taking less damage. therefore camping may not be as effective in certain situations.

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #349 on: January 23, 2010, 01:45:51 pm »
i like the slower turrets. if some d-bag is just standing on them, its alot easier to take him/her out and make your escape taking less damage. therefore camping may not be as effective in certain situations.

It also means you're more likely to be required to camp.  It seems an adv mara could hop into a well built base and do a lot of damage before it died every time, even with 1-2 of us there.  We had to be very well keen to have at least 3 people at base at any point every H game I've played.  Which is a hassle, especially on transit when we were chasing down the last few grangers as they attempted to eggspam and keep an overmind up.
I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

bob0

  • Posts: 80
  • Turrets: +11/-9
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #350 on: January 23, 2010, 07:15:48 pm »
It seems an adv mara could hop into a well built base and do a lot of damage before it died every time, even with 1-2 of us there.  We had to be very well keen to have at least 3 people at base at any point every H game I've played.  Which is a hassle, especially on transit when we were chasing down the last few grangers as they attempted to eggspam and keep an overmind up.
The best ways to avoid zap are, in my experience, to spread out buildables (as aliens spread their buildables against humans' s2 grenade), or to prevent the marauder from being able to zap consecutive times without receiving damage.  The latter is usually be the better layout whenever it's possible.  The window room human base in niveus I posted is an excellent example of a non-zap-friendly base, since a marauder will already be hurt a lot before being close enough to zap anything, and he has no safe spots behind which to hide.  In niveus default base spot, the best spots imo for turrets are in the corners, since marauders will have a tough time zapping them.

I wouldn't consider a zap-friendly base well built. 
bob

StevenM

  • Posts: 292
  • Turrets: +40/-33
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #351 on: January 23, 2010, 09:06:53 pm »
that may be so powa, but im pretty sure. if we are raping that maras base, in other words we arent camping and constantly applying the pressure, which isnt so farfetched now in 1.2. it has 2 options, try and take out the human base, risking failure/death. Not only this but should that mara succeed, its gonna have to take out a majority of the human team, which is extremely difficult now that regen is limited. Not to mention if it does choose to go back. it probably will end up dying anyway.

people dont camp because of turrets or because of any of the gameplay changes. people camp because they are stupid and/or lack any skill. Both of which the devs have no control over. The only thing i would suggest is a tutorial explaining the objective, adjusting your sens and boost binds, gfxs and some basic tactics for all too see. otherwise we are stuck with these idiots.

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #352 on: January 23, 2010, 09:23:50 pm »
You're assuming you can manage to win the game in that one rush though.  You could fail to succeed your rush and find that the single mara did a more effective rush than your whole team.
I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

David

  • Spam Killer
  • *
  • Posts: 3543
  • Turrets: +249/-273
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #353 on: January 23, 2010, 09:38:30 pm »
Then you should learn to build.

Also learn to defend.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Silver

  • Posts: 376
  • Turrets: +307/-62
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #354 on: January 23, 2010, 10:22:28 pm »
Defending unfortunately, equates to camping a lot.  One person defends, then 5-6 people are defending.

You can't deny that adv mara is one of the best base rushing classes now. 

I will admit though that I'm not very familiar with 1.2 building yet though.
I SUKC AT TRMELUS

IABZ IS JESUS

FreaK

  • Posts: 295
  • Turrets: +45/-59
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #355 on: January 23, 2010, 10:25:58 pm »
Defending unfortunately, equates to camping a lot.  One person defends, then 5-6 people are defending.

You can't deny that adv mara is one of the best base rushing classes now. 

I will admit though that I'm not very familiar with 1.2 building yet though.
Adv mara's can rape bad bases in 1.2 however if you spread out the base right then mara's won't be able to touch it.

Vape

  • Posts: 254
  • Turrets: +30/-87
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #356 on: January 24, 2010, 08:54:26 am »
In all the 1.2 games I've played I really haven't seen a base that wasn't bad.
-If you think its a joke, it's like thinking that kicking a dog/shooting someone innocent in the leg is funny.
Meisseli is a dump face ... Telling that gpp have no cheat is like tell that Meisseli mother dont suck cock !!!!

MitSugna

  • Guest
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #357 on: January 24, 2010, 10:15:05 am »
You should have waited for norfenstein; he knows how to build a base in 1.2

mooseberry

  • Community Moderators
  • *
  • Posts: 4005
  • Turrets: +666/-325
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #358 on: January 24, 2010, 10:41:10 pm »
I should hope so.
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन

~Mooseberry.

Jet~

  • Posts: 58
  • Turrets: +8/-246
Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #359 on: January 25, 2010, 05:57:03 pm »
I played the beta and liked it, but to me it just feels like one of those games that you leave to collect dust once you beat it. I'm looking foward to the full release of 1.2 when its done.
The real world and computer world couldn't be further apart.

>.>Jet<.<