Author Topic: 1.2 Gameplay Changes  (Read 1111685 times)

SlackerLinux

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #510 on: November 03, 2010, 02:07:13 am »
I just wish they would use the great "amsterdam unlimited" mod as the basis of further development of Tremulous (not many changes would have been necessary though)
I kind of wanted the opposite: the best "vanilla" version of Tremulous possible to give modders a balanced foundation to build from.
+1 thats exactly how trem should be
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umca

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #511 on: November 03, 2010, 02:47:40 am »
I'm afraid there's no delicate way to put this, it would appear that all of the Amsterdam unlimited features you mention are a load of bollocks.

Unlike you I played both versions so delicately bollocks yourself.

It was a lot of fun and allowed both teams a greater variety of tactics, which I miss. In case of gameplay the mentioned mod is more advanced than 1.2 (Fanboys of 1.2 - please note: I am not saying that your favourite is bad.)



There is a learning curve indeed. Give it some 1-2 weeks and explore the new strategies & most importantly building, and see how it goes.

Never played Amsterdam Unlimited, mainly due to the Unlimited (BP) part, and can't really say I think highly of the changes you mentioned but I don't know how they play together. 1.2 plays extremely well in my opinion though.

BP were limited on this server, depending on the map! (atcs was like 120 bp I think)

Actually I like the new building system, could use more bp though.


Tremulant

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #512 on: November 03, 2010, 03:02:26 am »
I'm afraid there's no delicate way to put this, it would appear that all of the Amsterdam unlimited features you mention are a load of bollocks.

Unlike you I played both versions so delicately bollocks yourself.

It was a lot of fun and allowed both teams a greater variety of tactics, which I miss. In case of gameplay the mentioned mod is more advanced than 1.2 (Fanboys of 1.2 - please note: I am not saying that your favourite is bad.)
If you can pick out a good handful of features listed in your previous post which aren't just pointless gimmicky crap, please do. I've played several extensively modded versions of 1.1, with similarly silly features to those you mention, they've all had one thing in common, they're none of them a well balanced and enjoyable experience.

Anyway, norf's explained his position, there really is no point in further discussing the server and its mod in this thread at this point.
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umca

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #513 on: November 03, 2010, 03:55:14 pm »
If you can pick out a good handful of features listed in your previous post which aren't just pointless gimmicky crap, please do. I've played several extensively modded versions of 1.1, with similarly silly features to those you mention, they've all had one thing in common, they're none of them a well balanced and enjoyable experience.

Anyway, norf's explained his position, there really is no point in further discussing the server and its mod in this thread at this point.


I can assure you that all "gimmicky crap" was used, providing some tactical depth, compared to that 1.2 feels a bit "flat".

Some stories I can remember:

The healing ckit:
On karith we (humans) built in elevator-Room. In SD all buildings on the ground floor were destroyed, so Humans basically could not buy ammo and regain health fast enough (they had to take elevator which took too long or buy jetpacks which wasted creds). Aliens were already talking like "gg" to us.
Then we actually discussed the situation and the decision was made that two ppl with jetpacks and ckits should remain in base, keep a repeater up and heal ppl to 120 hp, while all other players (there were around 12 vs 12 in total) buy energy weapons (which can be reloaded at the repeater) and rush in waves.
Well, after some hard fight and teamplay we pushed back the aliens and sensationally won the game.

Invisilisk and mines:
Humans were camping to gain credits and protect their last, well hidden arm and periodically attacking us aliens, killing one egg after another while our attempts to kill their base did not prevail, especially their mines drained our stock of evos.
We were running out of evos so we made a plan: First we shared our evos, then a dretch-storm was launched where we cleaned the human base of mines. Finally everone evolved to rant, goon or mara, except two experienced players who took adv. basilisk.
The rants, goons and maras then attacked the human base but just as a distraction, so that the two basilisks could become invisible for 4 seconds and take down the last arm, which was accomplished.

Having fun with mines:
You move out nothing but a gun and a mine. Suddenly you hear the distant roar of an approaching tyrant. Hastily you stick the mine at the back of the entrance and lie in waiting, being the bait. There it moves around the corner - a hungry rant in pursue - the strongest and most dangerous of the alien hive. What a beast! Instinctively you open fire, pumping a whole clip into that massive body, but seemingly to no effect. Unimpressed the monster stares at you, recognizing you are alone, poorly armed and an easy prey. Triumphantly it roars, then charges at you, trying to smash you with one hit and teaching you a lesson not to fuck with a tyrant. You already smell the rotten breath of death but suddenly there is an explosion, the tyrant screams in agony and dies right before your feet.
A second later the chat line bursts of some "FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU"´s, followed by rough curses and swears to take bitter revenge. You just smile and enjoy the moment.

Epic games/moments like these never gonna happen in 1.2 and this type of fun, thrill and teamwork you will never ever experience in 1.2 at this stage.

However, what I like in 1.2 so far is the faster paced and more fluent game, the less camping and the building system.

As a conclusion: For me trem 1.1 is more like a tactical game, like counterstrike 1.6 - while trem 1.2 is more like an "arcade" game, like Urban Terror. Both do have their own advantages and disadvantages.


I guess we can agree on that.

Tremulant

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #514 on: November 03, 2010, 04:25:06 pm »
So trem becomes more tactical if you don't just rely on your wits and strategy to exploit the classes and weapons at your disposal, but rather throw a bunch of ill thought-out and overpowered wankery into the mix? interesting, i would have thought the opposite were true...

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Meisseli

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #515 on: November 03, 2010, 04:38:01 pm »
Healing ckit? No thank you, we have a medistation already, making it actually strategical for aliens to destroy it and poison humans, or humans to protect it rather than not need it at all!

Mines make camp a hell more effective which doesn't sound so good to my ears. The kind of distraction you talked about can be achieved without any invisible basilisks, just make tyrants rush first to take the bullets and follow with marauders for example.

Killing tyrant in the way described can also be done with a grenade, with it actually being challenging since you need to time it right!

At least those features weren't a turn-on for me nor did they seem to offer any great strategies, sorry.

Plague Bringer

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #516 on: November 03, 2010, 05:51:45 pm »
Mines, invisilisks, and heal-guns. TF2, anyone? ARCADE, anyone?

Counterstrike had weapons and classes, and people used them strategically without any mines or invisibility cloaks or medkits. And, might I add that referring to anything that includes any of those three things as "1.1" is so disingenuous it's nearly the equivalent of your parent's marriage. Or mine. Oh.  :(
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Tremulant

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #517 on: November 03, 2010, 07:59:05 pm »
I'm curious, in the rifle wielding human with concealed proxy mine vs. tyrant scenario, if the rant were to spot said mine could it then do anything to trigger or defuse the thing without incurring damage?
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UniqPhoeniX

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #518 on: November 03, 2010, 11:45:25 pm »
As I used to play on 1.1 AU server a lot, I got to say that those features were anywhere from great, to pointless and even utter crap.

Ckit healing: Great
This added a lot to gain from teamplay, mainly since 1.1 human outposts were basically crap, and it was not overpowered in any way because you'd have 1 less player shooting at aliens. It introduced an actual support class for humans. It could also heal to 120 hp, but since you needed another player to do it for you, it encouraged working together more.

Bouncy luci/barb: great
Both added significant variety without being too powerful.

Hovelport: good
increased the usefulness of alien outposts mostly.

Invisilisk: sometimes good when humans camped (which was often since it was 1.1)
Without domination it's always possible to camp hard enough to drag out a game, however this mod changed that at least in some cases.

Shotgun secondary: sometimes useful

Flamer secondary: mostly used to spam

Forcefields: useless
Used in ~2% of games (afaik), tho they had some value if used right. May have been due to many players simply not knowing of their existence.

No barbs at evolve: bad
Even tho evolving to +goon and instantly sniping armory/rets was sometimes too good, this was the wrong way to solve it, often taking away the chance of sniping when humans were out of base.

Mines: crap
Basically being a 550 cred 1UP since it not only made no sound when dropped, it jumped at the alien triggering it, always dealing maximum damage, thus allowing you to very effectively use it in a 1vs1 fight against large aliens. There was(or is?) no way to safely detonate it without a granger. Often entire corridors could be blocked off by a single mine in the middle of the floor in plain sight until a dretch/granger came around. It did have some good uses, but those don't make up for the bad ones.

Personal Defence System (PDS): Crap, with a capital C
IF a human team manages to camp long enough to afford enough of these (600cred each, 3 max), and aliens do not have lots of funds, it guarantees a win because aliens had no reasonable means to stop rushes nor recover. Even a single fully equipped bsuit could sometimes simply stand in alien base with swarms of dretches rushing at him and have plenty of time to carefully destroy lots of buildings and sometimes even get away with it.

Aelita

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #519 on: November 04, 2010, 12:34:18 am »
Bouncing barbs are awesome.

Norfenstein

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #520 on: November 05, 2010, 01:48:13 am »
Geez guys, what's with all the hate for mods? After playing tremulous for almost a decade I'm honestly starting to pine for some of those "gimmicks" to make it interesting for me again.

umca, do you know if the source code for AU is available somewhere?

Aelita

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #521 on: November 05, 2010, 11:25:18 am »
Geez guys, what's with all the hate for mods? After playing tremulous for almost a decade I'm honestly starting to pine for some of those "gimmicks" to make it interesting for me again.

umca, do you know if the source code for AU is available somewhere?

whoa shit is this a troll!!!

Tremulant

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #522 on: November 05, 2010, 01:53:40 pm »
I don't suppose it helps that most of my experience of mods, besides xserverx which always seemed to be played on atcs, involved lolmaps and/or stupid numbers of build points. I suppose i did enjoy tremx a little at the time but korx is anything but fun, not to mention the needless and fantastically ugly reskinning.

the only mods i've found that were actually worth playing for any length of time were the arcade mod and domination.
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Plague Bringer

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #523 on: November 05, 2010, 07:06:26 pm »
Geez guys, what's with all the hate for mods? After playing tremulous for almost a decade I'm honestly starting to pine for some of those "gimmicks" to make it interesting for me again.
Coming from Mr. Balance-Changes. Anyone else find that unnerving?  ::)

Not that mods are bad, though. Hell, I played Halo Custom Edition a helluva lot more than I ever played vanilla. I've had a lot of fun on uBP and, hell, HvH and X. Mods are generally aimed at creating a more extreme experience. Take BenMachine's, or again, uBP or X or HvH. Hell, SST| played nothing like vanilla. It's good to have a distinction, is all, and it's bad when people start confusing the modded experience for the vanilla experience (or vice versa).
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Norfenstein

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #524 on: November 06, 2010, 08:40:56 pm »
Geez guys, what's with all the hate for mods? After playing tremulous for almost a decade I'm honestly starting to pine for some of those "gimmicks" to make it interesting for me again.
Coming from Mr. Balance-Changes. Anyone else find that unnerving?  ::)
Yes, because obviously I'm not allowed to want more than one thing at a time, and that I intend to contradict the post I made immediately before the one you quoted, as well as years of precedent in developing 1.2 because, what the hell, 1.2 should have forcefields and rubber barbs. ::)

David

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #525 on: November 07, 2010, 05:35:06 pm »
The hate for mods is because most of the current ones are shit, just adding more bigger guns with no thought to balance.
Things like domination and relics were good, they added without unbalancing.
Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
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swamp-cecil

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #526 on: November 07, 2010, 09:03:19 pm »
Name: Creep Bomb (should get a better name.) (Technically alien buildable landmine)
BP: 3
Stage: 3
SD: 2 on the server at once in SD
Damage: instant kill on unarmoured human, 65 on larmour and 40 on BSuit.
HP: (if shot at and killed, it wont explode) 25
Splash radius: size of RC
Knockback: as if you got hit by a lucy
Building timer: 6/8 sectors
Buildable on walls: No
Cannot TK. kills and Death's with it count on tremstats?
Message: *PlayerName* Found *playerName*'s creepbomb
*PlayerName* Thought it was a penny, by *playerName*
these are stupid suggestions, don't even waste our time.
I don't like your negative attitude.

Meisseli

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #527 on: November 07, 2010, 10:01:12 pm »
The hate for mods is because most of the current ones are shit, just adding more bigger guns with no thought to balance.
Things like domination and relics were good, they added without unbalancing.
Name: Creep Bomb (should get a better name.) (Technically alien buildable landmine)
BP: 3
Stage: 3
SD: 2 on the server at once in SD
Damage: instant kill on unarmoured human, 65 on larmour and 40 on BSuit.
HP: (if shot at and killed, it wont explode) 25
Splash radius: size of RC
Knockback: as if you got hit by a lucy
Building timer: 6/8 sectors
Buildable on walls: No
Cannot TK. kills and Death's with it count on tremstats?
Message: *PlayerName* Found *playerName*'s creepbomb
*PlayerName* Thought it was a penny, by *playerName*
Read the first quote, then the second. Something's horribly wrong.

DraZiLoX

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #528 on: November 14, 2010, 06:37:01 pm »
Relics were fun & cool!

umca

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #529 on: November 16, 2010, 01:12:18 am »
No barbs at evolve: bad
Even tho evolving to +goon and instantly sniping armory/rets was sometimes too good, this was the wrong way to solve it, often taking away the chance of sniping when humans were out of base.

Well, you are writing primarily from an alien perspective.

However a good alien dretch/lisk/mara could just bypass the human attack, evolve to goon and kill an armory with one bouncy barb - and this all in like 3 seconds (if there was no mine to stop the goon...)

I remember this maneuver was one of your specialities.  ;)

(And of course humans were knowing this which resulted in camp, so "No barbs at evolve" encouraged humans to leave base as the mentioned maneuver was not possible)



Mines: crap
Basically being a 550 cred 1UP since it not only made no sound when dropped, it jumped at the alien triggering it, always dealing maximum damage, thus allowing you to very effectively use it in a 1vs1 fight against large aliens. There was(or is?) no way to safely detonate it without a granger. Often entire corridors could be blocked off by a single mine in the middle of the floor in plain sight until a dretch/granger came around. It did have some good uses, but those don't make up for the bad ones.

Of course you are right, mines were not perfect (though I think the idea itself of humans having mines is not that bad), and for aliens a pain in the ass. A skilled luci guy would throw the mine and at the same time fire at it so it explodes, thus killing a 400 hp rant almost instantly. But as with the "No barbs at evolve" - it balanced the game.

So all in all what I would really like to see in 1.2 is Ckit healing (120 hp), Bouncy luci/barb and Hovelport.

The other stuff contains IMO some interesting ideas too (except forcefields - those were really useless)


umca, do you know if the source code for AU is available somewhere?

I was just a regular player now and then on that server (which is still on-line btw)

However UniqPhoeniX was a former admin, so perhaps he knows more. I also remember some names of other admins being Troy, Tim, Sisco, Memorex, ASD, Fr4q, revenge02, Mindedie, Little'Butterfly.

UniqPhoeniX

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #530 on: November 16, 2010, 10:48:11 am »
This is kind of offtopic, but: AFAIK there are no statistics which would say whether those changes balanced the win ratio, but even if they did, they also took out a lot of skill (sometimes noob with pds / mine > pro(s) with dretches / goon/rant) and made the game more frustrating.

On some maps you just can't bypass a proper rush, and even if you do, you often lose lots of health, which means you only get to use barbs for destroying the base, and that is only if humans didn't simply leave a mine on every entrance.

Bouncy barb did 1.8x the damage (198) of normal barb (110) while costing 3 barbs, and thus was only more effective against rets/DC (medis were kind of difficult to hit with it :P) and ofc humans if you had a clear shot. The proper way to make armories less snipeable IMO was to increase it's HP like in gpp.

Another thing I didn't mention is the effect of no barbs together with mines: if you wanted to snipe, you had to evolve 20+ sec before attacking, but with mines, you either evolve after you make sure there are no mines (just before you attack) or you take the chance of losing your goon pretty much instantly.

Firstinaction

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #531 on: November 22, 2010, 10:44:26 am »
Goons are overpowered now.  I use too eat dragoons for breakfast until a sudden warp in the galaxy and everybody is getting better with goons. Like every time They are looking another direction after pouncing at you, they instantly, instantly  turn and your dead on sight. WOW its gay if you think about it.  But I just wanted too share that with the community.

superspirality

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #532 on: November 22, 2010, 03:17:16 pm »
But I just wanted too share that with the community.
You are not supposed to.
Seriously.

jm82792

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #533 on: February 10, 2011, 02:58:27 am »
Goons are overpowered now.  I use too eat dragoons for breakfast until a sudden warp in the galaxy and everybody is getting better with goons. Like every time They are looking another direction after pouncing at you, they instantly, instantly  turn and your dead on sight. WOW its gay if you think about it.  But I just wanted too share that with the community.
Yeah a few people do tons of micro pounce.

OhaiReapd

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #534 on: March 22, 2011, 12:15:22 pm »
Goons are overpowered now.  I use too eat dragoons for breakfast until a sudden warp in the galaxy and everybody is getting better with goons. Like every time They are looking another direction after pouncing at you, they instantly, instantly  turn and your dead on sight. WOW its gay if you think about it.  But I just wanted too share that with the community.

GOONS are overpowered. Okay, ignore the buff to humans that force goons to pounce.  ???

wolfbr

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #535 on: June 15, 2011, 02:26:24 am »
some things(MODS) could be added to the tremulous, like invisible lisks, but, please, not acid bombs for tt or xael team kill gun, i like more 1.1 luci(more tactical).

AnthonyOscar

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #536 on: February 20, 2014, 07:59:44 am »

Very very exciting post it was.. You have mentioned most of the changes..DO you know latest game changes? Please share them..
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:03:57 am by Undeference »

xenocidal

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #537 on: November 19, 2016, 06:17:37 am »
Hello.. is anyone still playing 1.2? I don't see any servers :/

your face

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Re: 1.2 Gameplay Changes
« Reply #538 on: November 27, 2016, 04:19:09 am »
check out grangerhub http://forum.grangerhub.com/
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