World Politics

[Mario]

Greetings,

Yes, there's an actual political thread on this forum. I'm not trying to talk or preach to everyone about how bad or good the U.S. is, and I'm sorry if I leave your country out. If you dislike politics but have an honest opinion that doesn't involve attacking anyone else who posts on this thread, feel free to post here. If you're a person who wants to just attack people who post here, or the person who began the topic, please do not post in this thread.

I've noticed a trend on the internet that really surprises me. People avoid talking about politics after a major election in the U.S.

Here's my opinion about this: We've established documents such as the Bill of Rights and the Constitution to protect our nation from tyranny and corruption. U.S. citizens refuse to take part in politics because it is sometimes confusing just as economics is to a lot of us. I believe we as a citizen in our country have some what of an obligation to a role in politics. CNN, MSNBC and FOX do not help our political environment here in the U.S. I know terminology and meanings sometimes can be confusing as big numbers and mathematical equations, but we have one of the most powerful tools here to help us better understand and you're using it right now. I work in Broadcasting right now. I've see how people hate these shows but turn it on these channels to see what they're going to say. In which case it gives them ratings, which contributes to keeping them on the air. Don't like the media? Turn the station.

A lot of U.S. citizens wake up everyday and they don't even know the Constitution exists. I've met these people before and it's shocking to me. I am concerned about the future of our country. I didn't even learn a hint of the Constitution until my senior year in High School. I didn't realize how important these documents were to everyday American life. In my opinion, children should at least begin learning about our Constitution in middle school. We're moving further away from these documents because people believe they're too old or they have begun to fail. These statements are faulty and high inaccurate. We should modify our Constitution from time to time; our Constitution will last for 200 more years if we protect it. The first ten amendments have been under heavy attack for nearly the last nine years. People are being arrested for peaceful assembly, arrested and detained without trail. You ARE INNOCENT until proven guilty by a panel of your peers (a jury). You are able to go to court and defend yourself against a ticket. NEVER fight the officer who issues it.

People believe there will be chaos if we keep semi-automatic weapons; but since we already have semi-automatic weapons and there are over 80 million registered gun owners in the U.S, I see no chaos. What sense would it make to remove legal weapons and let criminals keep the illegal ones? How would you like it if you're sitting at the computer right now reading this and a thief was climbing into your window knowing that there will be no resistance because we have no weapons? We have a right to protect life, liberty, and property. 'A right to a well regulated militia' is to be used as last resort. NO, being a gun owner doesn't mean you're part of a militia. Defending your property does not make you a militia member. This piece of the second amendment is the only thing that makes your Constitution still valid to this day. People believe revolting against the government is foolish, because they will easily deal with you. You have to also understand that we have service men and women who go to war to fight for the love of our country. We have fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters in the military. It is also their right to refuse orders that go against the Constitution, which they are sworn to protect from enemies, foreign and domestic. Patriots are everywhere.

Freedom of speech gives you the right to voice your respectable opinion, not the right to attack or slander someone, which I take responsibility for in some of my posts on other forums. Everyone should be given a chance to speak and address the issues. You should be able to debate, analyze and study the facts, concerns and details of ones argument and give an honest opinion back. I believe we've seen too much red and blue. Our representatives and elected officials believe it's in the best interest of either their party or the highest bidder (donator). If you serve the needs of your party or the highest bidder, you need to be removed from your position.

Freedom of assembly, as a peaceful or angry protester, you have the right to protest. Peaceful protesters should move out of the way of angry protesters to avoid being hit with teargas and rubber bullets. If you were removed from a protest and you're a law abiding citizen, then you should begin filing claims against the police department of which detained you. If your voice is not heard, then begin to demand the removal of your elected official through vote. It will get their attention. If you believe the courts are unjust, begin to remove the judges. All of this can be done by majority.

I urge you, take part in politics. It's not only for current events, but the future of our children who will be making the decisions for US later on in life.

Feel free to post your thoughts here.

"..there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it" - John F. Kennedy

p.s. Thank you for reading this long ass post all the way down to here

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

I enjoyed reading that, but my faveourite slightly off topic fact about US policy is that they refuse to offer aid to some African countries as they have been known to torture prisoners.

Ironic.

But apart from that, when I go to USA I do enjoy the freshness.
Guess I just haven't been around there long enough to see the sun go down.

[Demolution]

I applaud you in your efforts, but not enough people care to be able to change the direction of things in this country. Not that it would matter anyways.
It's hard to be motivated about voting when my vote is meaningless.

[Mario]

I enjoyed reading that, but my faveourite slightly off topic fact about US policy is that they refuse to offer aid to some African countries as they have been known to torture prisoners.

Ironic.

But apart from that, when I go to USA I do enjoy the freshness.
Guess I just haven't been around there long enough to see the sun go down.

It's sad to see the rest of the world like this. It's also sad to be lied to by the people who you trust also.

I applaud you in your efforts, but not enough people care to be able to change the direction of things in this country. Not that it would matter anyways.
It's hard to be motivated about voting when my vote is meaningless.

I agree. Electoral colleges kinda kill our voting system. It sucks.

I've been everywhere talking about the decline of the U.S. Dollar. It seems like people would rather cast you out as a conspiracy theorist than actually listening to you. I've been labeled as a fear monger who does nothing but spit out 'the world is going to end' type information. I get cursed out even when telling people that you should prepare for the worst scenario. I guess a lot of us don't believe in a good saying "It's better to have it and don't need it, then to need it and don't have it". I fail to see why everyone believes it is a perfect society that cannot be touched as long as we have our Playstations and Televisions. I'm aware that through out human history, empires have risen and fallen due to different reasons, and just because it's 2009 doesn't make it any different from 476 A.D or the 1980's.

It's common sense to look at our own debt and deficits. We're now $11.7 trillion in national debt, $3.80 billion per day. $16.2 trillion by 2012. It's simple, you cannot pay off a loan that has interest, by taking out another loan with interest, and paying the first loan off with it; and then taking out a third loan with interest to pay off the 2nd loan that has interest also. Gold skyrocketed over $1000/oz and USD continues to decline. Telling people this is troubling for me, because they have a hard time not understanding it or they refuse to listen to the truth.

[Bissig]

How come the U.S. is the only country on the planet in which the citizens feel the need to cram up their basement with automatic weapons and 10 000 rounds of ammunition?

[Mario]

How come the U.S. is the only country on the planet in which the citizens feel the need to cram up their basement with automatic weapons and 10 000 rounds of ammunition?

Ammo is available to us for around $120.00 USD on some sites for 1000 rounds of ammo. We're going to buy it, then shoot it or store it. People shoot off hundreds of rounds a day through different weapons, I know this because I own weapons myself. I'm not responsible for people going out on a rampage with illegal automatic weapons, but I'm not also not responsible for the guy going on a rampage with a chainsaw or a knife, or even the drunken driver behind the wheel of a car. People like to collect weapons, and it's in our Constitution to have weapons. It's good enough for me.

[mooseberry]

How come the U.S. is the only country on the planet in which the citizens feel the need to cram up their basement with automatic weapons and 10 000 rounds of ammunition?

I don't know, why?

[Ryanw4390]

How come the U.S. is the only country on the planet in which the citizens feel the need to cram up their basement with automatic weapons and 10 000 rounds of ammunition?

Because if we crammed up our basement with bolt action WWI era rifles we wouldn't stand a chance against the government.

The founding fathers of the United States understood the importance of the right for citizens to own guns (A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed - 2nd amendment), not so the people could use their guns to hunt deer and take target practice, but so they could stand up should the US be invaded by a foreign military force, and just as important, be able to stand up against the US government should they decide not to keep their end of the bargain.

[Mario]

Correct sir! 

[Demolution]

The general population stands absolutely no chance against a force such at the Army. Who controls that Army? The U.S. government. A few automatic rifles and submachine guns can't do much damage to armored vehicles, tanks, etc.

[your face]

That's why you read Ragnar Benson's books.

I torrented his collection, good stuff.

http://www.cracked.com/article_17016_p2.html

[mooseberry]

That's why you read Ragnar Benson's books.

I torrented his collection, good stuff.

http://www.cracked.com/article_17016_p2.html

Who was it that showed you that again?
 

[your face]

<3

[Ryanw4390]

The general population stands absolutely no chance against a force such at the Army. Who controls that Army? The U.S. government. A few automatic rifles and submachine guns can't do much damage to armored vehicles, tanks, etc.

I'm not saying I agree with terrorism or anything like that, but on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, the Taliban have been putting up a pretty good fight with not much more than a few automatic rifles and submachine guns.

I read a statistic that there are 90 guns for every 100 people in the United States. Obviously all of those guns can't take down a tank, but that is still over 200million citizens who are armed. I just don't see how the government could militarily defeat the people of the United States considering they are having trouble on a narrow, mountainous border in Pakistan.

[Rocinante]

I just don't see how the government could militarily defeat the people of the United States considering they are having trouble on a narrow, mountainous border in Pakistan.

This might be diverging from the topic a bit, but I think there's a simple explanation for this particular logic: organization.  Trying to get 200 million people to focus on one thing without a lot of training and order first is asking for defeat, even by a much smaller group.  I'm not saying it would be a slam dunk, or even a given.  But a trained military - or in the case of those folks in Pakistan, an indoctrinated paramilitary force - could do a lot of damage against a bunch of "ordinary folks".

[Luigi1]

this is alot of words to read 

oh well, i got nothing better to do..

[Mario]

Once again guys, assuming that the soldiers manning all of this equipment will continue to follow government orders. We have to remember that armor takes a while to get to its target. I would be more worried about air strikes than anything. People will share tactics and knowledge if that time ever came. People will teach about explosives, evasion, recovery. Everything that was taught to a soldier can be taught to you.

[Ryanw4390]

Once again guys, assuming that the soldiers manning all of this equipment will continue to follow government orders. We have to remember that armor takes a while to get to its target. I would be more worried about air strikes than anything. People will share tactics and knowledge if that time ever came. People will teach about explosives, evasion, recovery. Everything that was taught to a soldier can be taught to you.

Yeah I'm not entirely convinced US soldiers will fire on their own citizens in the first place.

[your face]

they are fed with nanobot pills that when activated control their body

[Superpie]

Yeah I'm not entirely convinced US soldiers will fire on their own citizens in the first place.

26.34% would.

[Ryanw4390]

Yeah I'm not entirely convinced US soldiers will fire on their own citizens in the first place.

26.34% would.

That's disheartening

[mooseberry]

Yeah I'm not entirely convinced US soldiers will fire on their own citizens in the first place.

26.34% would.

That's disheartening

U.S. Soldiers are sworn to defend the constitution. It's not an easy choice by any means, but if U.S. citizens truly prove a threat to the U.S.A. you can bet they will be in trouble.

[Ryanw4390]

Yeah I'm not entirely convinced US soldiers will fire on their own citizens in the first place.

26.34% would.

That's disheartening

U.S. Soldiers are sworn to defend the constitution. It's not an easy choice by any means, but if U.S. citizens truly prove a threat to the U.S.A. you can bet they will be in trouble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akwjAjcQnqM

I can't believe that happened in Pittsburgh.

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

But why would the U.S. Government want to shoot 200million of their own citizens?
After the dust settled, on the global stage they would have their arses kicked.
Both morally, socially, economically and physically perhaps.
A country is made of its own people, and that would be commiting suicide.


I reckon they would just assasinate any people who seem to be in command, so instead of killing 200000000 people, they just kill 200, and keep the worst of the rest in jail, some others under house arrest and the rest in their 'bad books'.

[Demolution]

I reckon they would just assasinate any people who seem to be in command,

Been done before...

[KillerWhale]

MSNBC and FOX do not help our political environment here in the U.S.

Hm, I would like to know your opinion on outside news sources, like BBC prehaps?

Is all media as corrupted as American media, or do we just live in a society that does not value the truth?

[janev]

Naturally the following are just my opinions and your mileage may vary. Sorry in advance if my English is not the greatest and I ramble on a bit about some subjects. So without further ado lets talk politics, Yay!
Mario
There are quite a few people around the globe that share your concerns about US monetary and fiscal policies. Not least among them are the Chinese and Japanese who hold large sums of that (dollar denominated) debt you mentioned. And lets not even open the can of worms that is the demographics of western society and the unfunded liabilities they entail. Suffice to say that 11 trillion is just the tip of the iceberg and I don't blame you for being worried. The laws of supply and demand are just that. Opaque markets may cause some lag but there would seem to be some sort of correction coming along.

It would seem the only way to prevent the proverbial shit from hitting the fan from time to time is to elect responsible politicians but alas that is kind of a global oxymoron. If you are interested in the web of debt that has been spun over that last few decades people like Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Jim Rogers and Nouriel Roubini have been talking about the problems for a while now even if folks tune out when the gloom and doomers speak.

About your constitution I am not really qualified to speak since I am not familiar with the document. I will however say, that from my limited experience, your education system seems lacking in creating a citizenry capable of making the right choices. Dumbing down the population with playstations and pop culture won't help people make informed decisions. Maybe you should not be pushing too hard for that democratic vote j/k. 

Your concerns about regulations on firearms seem justifiable since there are already so many firearms in circulation you will likely have to deal with that reality. You have to deal with the realities you face even if they are uncomfortable. I like to hold on to the idea, that dealing with the underlying social problems, as opposed to creating masses of expensive bureaucracy, is preferable.     

On the subject of oppressive governments any leader is only as good as the men whose shoulders he stands on. If that base erodes they lose their power. Those soldiers are also part of the power base. The only way to stay in power against the will of the majority is to use fear tactics and smoke and mirrors to trick the majority into thinking they are a minority. The other factor is that most people would rather give up bits of their freedom gradually then give up the safeness and stability of a known (even if flawed) system. Oh well.

Maybe you should stop worrying about the macroeconomic perspective and head over to www.survivalblog.com and start worrying about _your_ microeconomic solution.

Demolition
Who does that army consist of that you say is so much superior to citizens? Granted the disciplined and structured ways of military life raises the bar for dissent but do you really think a tanker will be keen to fire those 120mm HE shell into an apartment? 

[Bissig]

That "founding fathers militia blah blah" is about as convincing as creationism. It is 2009 now, not 1700-something. Did your guns stop the government from spying on all of you? Did the guns stop the market crash? Did the guns stop unconstitutional laws from being passed? Did your guns stop McCarthy?

The only thing up today that those guns provided is more deaths, more reasons for the government to train special forces and institute a "shoot first, ask later" policy throughout the police and the special forces. There are more cops in california shot down from motorcycles by citizens each year than the collective death toll in all of europes police forces.

Insanity seems to be an integral part of the personality of U.S. citizens.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/7313-3-california-police-officers-dead.html

http://www.aphf.org/lodstats.html

In Germany 6 (SIX!) police officers a year are getting killed while on duty.

[mooseberry]

MSNBC and FOX do not help our political environment here in the U.S.

Hm, I would like to know your opinion on outside news sources, like BBC prehaps?

Is all media as corrupted as American media, or do we just live in a society that does not value the truth?

The unfortunate truth is that most big name news sources (esp. Fox, but others CNN, MSNBC, etc) have switched their purposes from "telling their viewers what is happening in the world" to "telling their viewers what stories they think will get the most views." Now this does not mean that they are outright lying. (Which, in some cases however they are.) (You can also find many pictures of news sources that take images off google without bothering to check wherefrom, including that krispy kreme one with something like "suck dick" written underneath.) Pretty much everyone knows that the ultimate way for a tv show to make money (and therefor to succeed) is for a lot of people to watch it. To achive high ratings, they must create consumer intrest, and one of the best ways to do so is conflict. Commonly, news stations will exagerate the ammount of support for one reason (ex. birthers movement) the media played it up a lot more than it waS actually supported. Overall, the mainstream media mostly needs to start thinking of telling the real news and not just making a story.

P.S. I typed most of this and then didn't finish/post this for about 6 hours, so maybe it's not super relevent anymore, but hell I'm posting it anyways.

[Ryanw4390]

That "founding fathers militia blah blah" is about as convincing as creationism. It is 2009 now, not 1700-something. Did your guns stop the government from spying on all of you? Did the guns stop the market crash? Did the guns stop unconstitutional laws from being passed? Did your guns stop McCarthy?

I'm not really sure what to tell you other than say that you can't just pick and choose which parts of it you want to be law and which you don't. If there is a particular section that isn't popular, the constitution can always be amended with 3/4 of the states voting in favor of the change.

Just reading that first paragraph I can see you have a lot more trust in a government that spies on its people and passes unconstitutional laws then I do.