What's right and what's wrong, the GPP and you.

[ziplocpeople]

It's been a long time since the last major GPP Phase has been made, for the most part the last major phase to significantly change the balance (I'm referring to combat changes, not the less dramatic and exciting phase 6 & 7 releases which mostly fixed bugs, I'm not saying that they don't matter, they just aren't all that relevant to what I'm going to bring up.) The point being is that a lot of time has gone by, a lot of time for seeing exactly what's wrong and what's right- The things that are "wrong" should be examined for possible fixes. As an avid 1.2 supporter, I personally believe that most things are right, but there's some issues that leave me grinding my teeth at times.

Now let's prioritize, what's really wrong, and what's kinda/maybe wrong.

Major Offenders:

The Dragoon:
When it comes down to it, the new Dragoon is very quirky to say the least. The new pounce specifically is a major issue, take a quick look at tremstats and you'll see that the majority of players have more kills with pounce than slash. This isn't inherently an issue, just a statistic, what is an issue is how it works out in-game. The pounce doesn't make slashing redundant, it makes it nearly pointless with very little room for practical use. Aside from slash, all too often can someone spam pounce and kill someone wearing light armor + the helmet in less than 3 seconds, no matter how well they can dance, or how much they dodge. You can also kill the Reactor faster by sitting on top of it pounce spamming, than simply slashing- not only does this not make any sense (magikarp's splash attack should do more damage,) but it's a great example of "what's wrong." Another note, it's fairly often that I pounce someone, and due to the knockback the human is out of slashing distance, this just encourages the spam even more.

Possible solutions: I've been thinking (and you guys really should too, the more people coming up with ideas, the more likely we are to find one that's "right.")
1) Lower the pounce damage, give the slash a slight buff. -Lowering the damage would not only make spamming it less of a problem, but it would also make the knockback less of a problem as well (by lowering it,) giving a slightly buffed slash a new place in this world. A possible problem with this being that it could make light armor in stage 1 pointless, as pounce likely wouldn't kill them in one hit.
2) Lower the pounce range, lower the pounce knockback, and give the slash a slight buff. -This would make the pounce more difficult to spam, and once again give slash a place in the world. Problems? Well, it wouldn't fix spamming it against buildings, but I suppose increasing the delay between pounces could fix this, but possibly bring other issues.
3) Increase pounce range, lower pounce damage, once again buff slash. -I personally don't like this idea, but thought it'd be fair to mention. Too much like 1.1 goon imo, but it would fix the problems present in 1.2.
4) You guys come up with more ideas, if you wish.

*Personally, I think the 1.1 and 1.2 Dragoon are pretty impossible to compare, they're very different animals now- but that's not exactly the issue here.

The Basilisk:
The 1.1 Basilisk was almost completely inaccessible to newbies, so I completely understand the need to buff it, but as it stands now the changes are more than overkill. The main issue being the reversal of the slash and grab ranges, which indeed does make it accessible to newbies, but in the hands of anyone who isn't completely inept (exaggerating a little bit here, the little bit is the sad part) it can become annoyingly overpowered. I'd also like to give a friendly reminder that the basilisk is worth 1 frag, with this value there isn't much of an excuse for them to be this deadly/boring to play as. I know I'm not exactly the average player, but the fact of the matter is that I can get 9 frags with a basi (in many cases) faster than I can with any other class. One fun experience I had was in a 1v1, I had 150 ping and turned my cg_unlagged off from the start- I played as a basi the entire time (save for when I didn't have any frags) and still won (Okay, yeah this isn't the ideal testing spot for a basi, as humans should attack in groups but still.) IMO, the basi is absolutely no fun, and for the average player usually annoyingly difficult to deal with (or in some cases, pretty impossible.) Oh, also it really doesn't make sense that you can grab something, but be completely unable to slash it.

Possible solutions: Honestly, I don't see too many options here, maybe you guys can come up with more.
1) Average the grab and slash ranges, providing a nice medium. -Well, I personally like this idea- It would still be newbie accessible, but at the same time grab wouldn't be so overkill. Also, this would increase the effective range where you can grab and slash at once, making it easier to move around the target (say, if you're being shot at) while still doing damage. So in many respects it's not a complete nerf, more of a re-balance.
2) Well, uh, tinker with the values some, find the golden spot for each, we certainly don't have it now.
3) You decide.

*EDIT: Keep in mind the Basilisk in 1.2 is intended to be a support class, not a one man army.

Regular offenders: Not quite as annoying as the above.

Dodge:
Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with there being a dodge command. Hell, I use it quite a bit mixed in with my dancing, it's just abused a bit. There's really nothing more annoying than that one guy who backpedal-dodges constantly to the point where he's impossible to kill.

Solutions:
1) Make back-dodging less effective. -Well, this makes sense logically too, I mean can you jump backwards as far/fast as you can to the side?
2) Make dodging cost more energy. -This could fix the spamming issue, but penalizes more legitimate uses of it. Could make dancing popular again though.
3) Make dodging have a cool-down timer. -Pretty much the same comment as idea #2
4) If changes to the Dragoon get rid of the need for it, then remove it. -Ehh, dunno about that. I can do without, not so sure about newbies. Besides, it gets me down slopes/stairs faster than running.

Jetpack: Oh what better fits the definition of love-hate. It's great for getting places, it's easy to stay out of harms way... Sometimes a bit too easy depending on the map. There's plenty of ideas on the forums for this already, no need to be redundant, I'm already fairly certain that they won't be implemented.

Minor/Maybe offenders: Stuff that either doesn't matter that much, or doesn't matter to many.

Lasgun/Rifle: Maybe offender.
When it comes down to it, the lasgun is a redundancy. It's like the rifle, without the spread, and it costs 250 credits... Plus armor. What I'm getting at is that for the average person there's little incentive to use the lasgun, the rifle is a perfectly decent gun, so why pay 250 credits for something only marginally better?
Solutions:
Eh, just one idea really: Lower the price to 200 (Maybe less?), decrease damage to 8, increase speed to compensate. -Making it cheaper increases incentive to buy it, the damage and speed would be changed to reflect the price change, it's as simple as that.

Marauder: Maybe offender.
I'm only putting this in "maybe" because it's debatable. It's just that unless the humans have a really good builder (which realistically, when 1.2 is released and more players migrate to it, good builders will become harder to come by.) A human stage 1 or 2 base can be destroyed in a very short period of time, or even a stage 3 base that just plain isn't perfect enough. Debatably, zap is overpowered, and honestly I'm still not sure where I stand on this issue. If you have any ideas for improving it, go ahead and post below.

Hovel: Minor offender.
Grangers need homes too. Also, there's a hovel icon for a reason. Grangers put it there because they want their home back.
Solutions:
1) give it back.
2) Bring it back, shorten it (to the point where a human could jump on it,) keep the limit of 1, make it cost 8 bp, and make the spikes do damage. -I don't see anything wrong with this, but maybe I'm just too much of a granger fan. Yeah, probably that.

The Mysterious Beyond: Any other creative solutions to the above? Thought of another problem that I didn't list? Go ahead, post below. No, really. Post below. Even though I just know this will turn into a flamewar in no time, figured I'd at least make my voice heard. Kudos to anyone who reads this text.

[kharnov]

I have a few suggestions but not enough to make a whole new thread about them, so I'll stick them here. Maybe F50 can play around with them on his mod server if he has some spare time to code them.

Dragoon pounce: The dragoon gets on top of something, and then repeatedly flops around in place and somehow this damages it. Alternatively, it flops into you and somehow damages you. I really don't understand this. How about:

• Option A: Have the pounce do damage solely based off velocity. No velocity, no damage. Jump from the other side of the map and crash into something and a lot of damage. Then you have to chomp.
• Option B: Require the pounce to travel a certain distance before it can do its preset damage.

Lasgun: It's very reliable, but it's unimaginably bland. As Medi mentioned, the cost of 250 doesn't factor in the requirement of armor, because anything beyond the free rifle gives a very strong incentive to wear something. Also, the lack of reload doesn't change things, because someone properly dodging doesn't have to worry about the reload on another weapon. Personally I'd love to see it as some sort of beam gun, but since that will likely never be implemented, I'd rather see it do higher damage with a lower repeat rate and a smaller clip size. That way it fills the niche between the fast weapons with low damage and the slow weapons with huge damage. A hitscan projectile-less weapon with average damage and average repeat. We don't have that.

Flamer: Holy crap this weapon is underused now. Everyone used to love it, but now it doesn't really do anything. On Niveus, teslas have killed more things than flamer direct hits, and tyrants have crushed more than flamer splashes. How about increasing the range on it while keeping the current changes done to it in GPP? Real flamethrowers go out much further, anyway. Or make it cost less.

[SirDude]

Dragoon: YES YES YES.
but there are (debatable) better ways to fix it.

Basilisk:
Meh.

Dodge: NO.
It COULD be a issue in S2 with a nerfed goon, but the best fix for that (when good is nerfed) is make dodge move dramatically less distance but have its speed dramatically buffed.

Lassgun: outright FAIL, I'm not going to bother explaining this one as there will MAY be people heavily trolling you for not understanding (Thus making you retarded n00b) how the lassgun is one of if not the best gun in the game.

IMO: the Pulse rifle is the one who needs help, Its a lassgun; with a reload; that fires projectiles; only doing more damage then the lassgun because it shoots faster.

Rifle: Debatable, Rifle maintains useful at any stage but dretch doesn't.

[ziplocpeople]

Lassgun: outright FAIL, I'm not going to bother explaining this one as there will MAY be people heavily trolling you for not understanding (Thus making you retarded n00b) how the lassgun is one of if not the best gun in the game.

I'm not saying it's a bad gun, but in the hands of a "retarded n00b" 250 credits is too much to pay for a mildly upgraded rifle. Also, if you aren't going to explain something to me, next time do a better job not explaining.

Rifle: Debatable, Rifle maintains useful at any stage but dretch doesn't.

Like I said, rifle's a good weapon. At 250 credits + armor most people would rather save those credits for something better, like that pulse rifle you seem to hate. Oh, and in that case wouldn't my idea make the pulse rifle less redundant?

[kharnov]

make dodge move dramatically less distance but have its speed dramatically buffed

So basically, just like pressing A, S, or D?

How dramatic are we talking? Twilight-level or Greek tragedy-level?

[SirDude]

I'm not saying it's a bad gun, but in the hands of a "retarded n00b" 250 credits is too much to pay for a mildly upgraded rifle. Also, if you aren't going to explain something to me, next time do a better job not explaining.

Like I said, rifle's a good weapon. At 250 credits + armor most people would rather save those credits for something better, like that pulse rifle you seem to hate. Oh, and in that case wouldn't my idea make the pulse rifle less redundant?

I was saying i wasn't going to explain why the lassgun is better then the rifle, also i meant they would call you a "retarded n00b" not that i am.

But I'll guess explain anyway.
the rifle may have a higher Dps from its RoF but the lassgun has more damage per shot.
combined with never reloading and perfect accuracy means you can spray at any range, and with reasonalbe aim means it can kill things in less time with less ammo.
having a assload of ammo and being able to reload at the RC is a MASSIVE advantage over the rifle.

rifle vs lassgun is like AK vs M16.
ones dirt cheap and can crank out the damage but the other is more efficient in almost every aspect.

So basically, just like pressing A, S, or D?

How dramatic are we talking? Twilight-level or Greek tragedy-level?

"a dramatic Family Guy vs Simpsons vs King of the Hill flame war"

[Celestial_Rage]

Goon: yeah, although slash doesn't need a damage buff. Just a minor range and repeat buff.
Basi: I think the happy medium would be appropriate to start with.
Dodge: I don't find dodge an issue. It's rather predictable, and with goon pounce, you can easily pounce into range to chomp.
Jetpack: I would prefer to leave it as it is. If someone is jetcamping, it's one less defender.
Mara: Like it as it is. It isn't amazingly stacked. Anyone who can dodge remotely well can often take out the average mara with minimal armor.
The lasgun (I feel) is a happy medium between the rifle and the chaingun. It allows you to have the accuracy (better, actually) of a rifle without having to reload. Therefore, I think it is appropriately price, and overwhelmingly more useful than the rifle.
Hovel: Meh, I don't care either way.

[Anonymoose]

"a dramatic Family Guy vs Simpsons vs King of the Hill flame war"

Thats not even an argument man, Simpsons win by a landslide.

[ziplocpeople]

I was saying i wasn't going to explain why the lassgun is better then the rifle, also i meant they would call you a "retarded n00b" not that i am.

But I'll guess explain anyway.
the rifle may have a higher Dps from its RoF but the lassgun has more damage per shot.
combined with never reloading and perfect accuracy means you can spray at any range, and with reasonalbe aim means it can kill things in less time with less ammo.
having a assload of ammo and being able to reload at the RC is a MASSIVE advantage over the rifle.

rifle vs lassgun is like AK vs M16.
ones dirt cheap and can crank out the damage but the other is more efficient in almost every aspect.

Whoa, really?

The lasgun (I feel) is a happy medium between the rifle and the chaingun. It allows you to have the accuracy (better, actually) of a rifle without having to reload. Therefore, I think it is appropriately price, and overwhelmingly more useful than the rifle.

I do agree that it's much more useful than the rifle, but at the same time it isn't used all that much. Sure, it's used more than the flamer, but so's everything but the blaster. Plus, those changes wouldn't really make a massive difference in play-style, except ammo would deplete faster and it'd be cheaper. Also, I have no clue how you managed to compare the las to a cgun, but you did.
Anyway, that's just one of my many crazy ideas, I do think that dragoons and basilisks should be top priority balance-wise though.

[Celestial_Rage]

You don't have to reload a chaingun. Also, looking at stats, many good players like WarLock and Whales have incredibly high kill counts with lasgun.

[Tremulant]

While goon pounce spam does feel a bit unfair at times i don't really feel that it's led to a woefully unbalanced game, if anything gpp matches, when not severely stacked, are feeling rather well balanced to me at the moment.

The only weapon i really dislike in gpp is that bloody shotgun, though i've only made 16 fewer kills with it than i have with the pulse rifle. Thinking about it, i've got nearly as many marazap kills as i have lasgun, my stats should probably be ignored.

[Nux]

While goon pounce spam does feel a bit unfair at times i don't really feel that it's led to a woefully unbalanced game, if anything gpp matches, when not severely stacked, are feeling rather well balanced to me at the moment.

Suffice it to say: Balance does not a game make.

The lasgun is like the rifle? The lasgun is like the chaingun? I'm not even sure what game you guys are playing anymore.

The lasgun, if it is like any weapon, is like the only other hitscan weapon with perfect accuracy, the massdriver. Unless they've changed it, the lasgun has a higher damage rate and so is idealy the more effective weapon. I can think of only 3 reasons to use the massdriver over it:

1. The massdriver deals SUPRISE damage giving small or weak enemies little chance to do something about it.

2. The massdriver is easier to aim. You have time to judge a single important shot, rather than frantically try to keep the xhair constantly over the target (lasgun).

3. It's just more fun. It's satisfying to use a weapon that takes a minimal number of shots to kill with and can be relied upon to hit when you fire.

All of that aside, the lasgun is the superior weapon and can't really be compared to a lower accuracy weapon.

[Tremulant]

While goon pounce spam does feel a bit unfair at times i don't really feel that it's led to a woefully unbalanced game, if anything gpp matches, when not severely stacked, are feeling rather well balanced to me at the moment.

Suffice it to say: Balance does not a game make.

Sorry, i should have added "and quite enjoyable, too.",

[jm82792]

As much as I've tried to stay away from Trem it's been the replacement for mindless TV.....


The Flamer is practically never used, Dragoons jump through the flames, and it's instakill.
The weapon has a similarity to the PainSaw, if you are alone and have it, you have a high likelihood of saying "Oh Crap", and having nobody to cover you butt.
It's good if the aliens are out of evos, and you have dozens of dretches to kill.
It is a bad choice for any other uses since it fails at being a decent defensive weapon.

The Dragoon has a bad spam issue, they can pick 3 or 4 people off easy, and because of that it's much more power then all (most/any?) S2 humans on an individual basis.
Thus the humans are in packs all the time... The ability to have an advanced goon with a decked out S2 Human, and having an even chance of winning is rare.

[Celestial_Rage]

Dragoons take quite a lot of damage if they jump through flamer flames.

[F50]

The problem with the flamer is that it usually only does damage when the user is receiving damage, if not from the aliens themselves, then from the splash damage that is the ultimate reward for hitting an alien. Sure almost nothing can defeat a flamer without getting hurt, but even if the flamer is victorious, the flamer is usually badly hurt as well.

As for the long lost hovel, teleportation never was a good use for it, and that is perhaps the only variant of the hovel that gained much traction. If a sane variant of the hovel were to be created, it would probably make a nice mod (if one assumes that nothing official is going to happen, of course).


I'm not sure how the idea that the lasgun is redundant came into being, its a solid weapon, at least, I think it is...

[kharnov]

I started playing when 1.1 was out for just around 6 months.

So when 1.1 was already out you just happened to play for around six months? Okay.

[ziplocpeople]

I don't think you think at all.
I don't give a shit "who" medi is, get you ass kissing white-knightry mentality out of here.
I started playing when 1.1 was out for just around 6 months.

We get that you've been playing a long time (I've heard you say it a myriad of times,) I'd just like to take the time to point out that you haven't been playing much. http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=11723
Most of your time is on humans, so understandably you'd want to keep dodge. With this being said, I don't feel that roughly 23 hours of gameplay is enough to really have a feel for the game at all, even if you have played a little bit more, I don't feel it's enough (looking at previous phases reinforces this belief more than just as little bit.) For most games, I'd say it's enough, but then again most multiplayer games don't require up to 45 minutes to complete a single match.

All of that aside, I'm more than happy to see conflicting opinions above, it shows that people still care about trem. Though I'd like to note that the lasgun was clasified as a "maybe offender" just 'cause that's how I'd change it if it were up to me, tbh it's fine as it is.
Although, I'd like to point out that my opinion is the only correct one, and thus all posts contradicting my opinion(s) should be ignored/deleted. Thank you for reading this white text. Also, I just started re-reading Deadman Wonderland. God that's an awesome manga. /nerd

[OhaiReapd]

I started playing when 1.1 was out for just around 6 months.

So when 1.1 was already out you just happened to play for around six months? Okay.

Clearly he has a life. Which is why he "plays" trem.

[SirDude]

I am on a different Qkey/identity due to constant grayzone harassment.
i have been playing much more then that, but i do tend to play humans more then aliens due to the fact that i suck at spamming pounce, and it is just way to easy for me to spam mara zap on not-so-good bases that humans tend to make when I'm not building.
Using dodge doesn't make you a noob, using dodge usually means your not so much of a elitist to think only noobs use it. besides, its one of the only ways to dodge pounce spam.
This isn't Homestuck, and you are not DocSCRATCH. You are not omniscient, extremely powerful, or very charming.

[mooseberry]

Fucking hell people, can there not be one thread on these forums that contains just mature discussion of a topic before degrading into stupid insults/pissfights/etc? SirDude, in this case, it's mostly you, with Reapd and others as well. I'm watching all of you guys ಠ_ಠ. Please step up the quality up a bit. It is depressing just reading some of this. Ok, back ontopic.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

was going to point out some things, mainly about what sirdude was saying, and how little sense it all made, but in light of what moose said, i'll refrain.  aside from that bit about an ak and a m-16.  have you even actually fired either of those weapons?

i'll agree that goon might need some tweaking.  i dont play goon much, something about it just seems counterintuitive.  probably just my inexperience coupled with the folks i'm playing against knowing how to roast a newbie goon quickly.

for basi:  i'd like more equality between grab and swipe.  the long grab range does have its uses when defending bases though.  i'm kind of iffy.  i like the current bassi a lot.  it's useful as both support and for picking off "lone wolf" humans.  at hs3, i'd rather save evos for a mara than go basi, as humans have a large selection of tools to quickly have you being pooped out of an egg as a dretch.

lasgun:  i dont play human much, but when i do, i find that i'll grab a las when i can if i cannot get something better.  i tend to bleed our structures less, and the battery pack combined with reactor reload makes it much more useful than the rifle to me.  i wont take it on an attack on the alien base unless i have a lot of backup, but it does a great job at defense.

dodge:  if you'll excuse a bit of vulgarity, fuck dodge.  nothing pisses me off more than a bsuit hopscotching backwards against my rant charge killing me rather quickly with a luci.  irritates me more than those stubby rant arms.  in my opinion, no human should be faster than a speeding dretch.  perhaps i'm still a bit too used to quakeLive's strafejump angle to get it all the time here in trem, but often humans can hop backwards at a speed i cant attain as a dretch for 3 jumps or so. i dont mind dodging to the side so much, but it does seem wrong somehow that some humans use dodge to move around the map more than to...  well...  dodge.

mara:  excuse my newbishness, but how else are we supposed to take down human bases that are built even halfway decently with a few defenders?  mara+ should be good against a s1 base, they are s2 aliens.  at s2, having a DC in range helps take a bit of the sting out of periodic mara+ attacks, just so long as it isnt a rush.  during a rush, shouldent the humans be defending and concentrating fire?  too often as a dretch i distract humans from shooting the real dangers, such as ole mara+, by shooting ME (and my corpse.... humans seem to love shooting dead dretches) for a little while, allowing another couple of zaps.  at s3, humans have teslas.  personally, i have not found out the secret to taking out teslas as a mara+.  i'll usually rant up, kill a tesla, and bite the bullet as the whole H-team and all their defenses focus fire on the big fat alien that wont stop screaming.  to me, suggesting a zap nerf is akin to suggesting a naid nerf.

one last thing i find mildly annoying is lucijumping.  i can deal with blind lucispam.  it just gets to me that a human can march up, lucijump right to just about anywhere you'd care to put the OM, drop a naid, and straight up kill the OM and anything unlucky enough to be built near or defending it.  defensive structures and defensive players dont seem to be capable of stopping this.  i dont have any suggestions about changing it, because i'm not sure it needs to be changed - it is infrequently used it seems.  i just havent seen anything analogous that a single alien can do to the RC.  i havent seen everything, though.

[OhaiReapd]

was going to point out some things, mainly about what sirdude was saying, and how little sense it all made, but in light of what moose said, i'll refrain.  aside from that bit about an ak and a m-16.  have you even actually fired either of those weapons?

That was the thing that pissed me off the most about him.

i'll agree that goon might need some tweaking.  i dont play goon much, something about it just seems counterintuitive.  probably just my inexperience coupled with the folks i'm playing against knowing how to roast a newbie goon quickly.

Its not counter intuitive, its fucking backwards. Why would I use the SECONDARY move more than the PRIMARY. I don't understand what possessed devs to nerf chomp so much. Its a 3 evo alien, WEAKEN ITS HP. I don't care! Just don't take away the one attack that it actually has!

for basi:  i'd like more equality between grab and swipe.  the long grab range does have its uses when defending bases though.  i'm kind of iffy.  i like the current bassi a lot.  it's useful as both support and for picking off "lone wolf" humans.  at hs3, i'd rather save evos for a mara than go basi, as humans have a large selection of tools to quickly have you being pooped out of an egg as a dretch.

I completely agree, but I don't like how boring basi is now. I spent like a week learning basi on 1.1 and then I left for 1.2. I WASTED that time learning.

lasgun:  i dont play human much, but when i do, i find that i'll grab a las when i can if i cannot get something better.  i tend to bleed our structures less, and the battery pack combined with reactor reload makes it much more useful than the rifle to me.  i wont take it on an attack on the alien base unless i have a lot of backup, but it does a great job at defense.

It is, but I would like a faster repeat and lower dmg.

dodge:  if you'll excuse a bit of vulgarity, fuck dodge.  nothing pisses me off more than a bsuit hopscotching backwards against my rant charge killing me rather quickly with a luci.  irritates me more than those stubby rant arms.  in my opinion, no human should be faster than a speeding dretch.  perhaps i'm still a bit too used to quakeLive's strafejump angle to get it all the time here in trem, but often humans can hop backwards at a speed i cant attain as a dretch for 3 jumps or so. i dont mind dodging to the side so much, but it does seem wrong somehow that some humans use dodge to move around the map more than to...  well...  dodge.

I want it taken out, or nerfed to shit. I never use, I don't NEED to use it, why should others need it? I'm awful, so they can't be much worse.

mara:  excuse my newbishness, but how else are we supposed to take down human bases that are built even halfway decently with a few defenders?  mara+ should be good against a s1 base, they are s2 aliens.  at s2, having a DC in range helps take a bit of the sting out of periodic mara+ attacks, just so long as it isnt a rush.  during a rush, shouldent the humans be defending and concentrating fire?  too often as a dretch i distract humans from shooting the real dangers, such as ole mara+, by shooting ME (and my corpse.... humans seem to love shooting dead dretches) for a little while, allowing another couple of zaps.  at s3, humans have teslas.  personally, i have not found out the secret to taking out teslas as a mara+.  i'll usually rant up, kill a tesla, and bite the bullet as the whole H-team and all their defenses focus fire on the big fat alien that wont stop screaming.  to me, suggesting a zap nerf is akin to suggesting a naid nerf.

No nerf for mara. Its completely fine. 3 evos for an s2 alien. Completely balanced. If H has a bad builder, thats their fault, same as if their entire team feeds.

one last thing i find mildly annoying is lucijumping.  i can deal with blind lucispam.  it just gets to me that a human can march up, lucijump right to just about anywhere you'd care to put the OM, drop a naid, and straight up kill the OM and anything unlucky enough to be built near or defending it.  defensive structures and defensive players dont seem to be capable of stopping this.  i dont have any suggestions about changing it, because i'm not sure it needs to be changed - it is infrequently used it seems.  i just havent seen anything analogous that a single alien can do to the RC.  i havent seen everything, though.

This doesn't bother me, because it is much harder to luci jump in 1.2.

All in all, I agree with you.

[Tremulant]

dodge: *snip*.  dodge.

I want it taken out, or nerfed to shit. I never use, I don't NEED to use it, why should others need it? I'm awful, so they can't be much worse.

Why remove or "nerf to shit" a feature that you don't even need, surely if you can't possibly benefit from it then it's nothing more than a convenience to those who do utilise it? Initially i refused to use dodge, when i gave in and started using it i quickly found myself missing it when i returned to 1.1, and that's just bound to x alongside boost, it'd probably be even more useful if i actually bothered to bind it so i can dodge+ left and right in a practical manner. Even with dodge, i find it almost impossible to evade a skilled goon(possibly due to my tendency not to dodge anywhere but backward) , but i'm sure i'd have even more trouble without.

[OhaiReapd]

dodge: *snip*.  dodge.

I want it taken out, or nerfed to shit. I never use, I don't NEED to use it, why should others need it? I'm awful, so they can't be much worse.

Why remove or "nerf to shit" a feature that you don't even need, surely if you can't possibly benefit from it then it's nothing more than a convenience to those who do utilise it? Initially i refused to use dodge, when i gave in and started using it i quickly found myself missing it when i returned to 1.1, and that's just bound to x alongside boost, it'd probably be even more useful if i actually bothered to bind it so i can dodge+ left and right in a practical manner. Even with dodge, i find it almost impossible to evade a skilled goon(possibly due to my tendency not to dodge anywhere but backward) , but i'm sure i'd have even more trouble without.

I find it useless and it takes away the fun of the game. OH NO, I IM WEAK AND CAN'T DANCE, LETS PRESS MY HANDY DANDY BUTTON AND DODGE 300000 FEET BACKWARDS. Its annoying as an alien and aliens were nerfed enough. If they won't take out or nerf dodge, I want goon chomp range extended and widened. No alien can take out a dodge spamming dick wad.

[Celestial_Rage]

Most "dodge spamming dickwads" are extremely predictable, so, all you really have to do is be able to aim. Further, dodge helps humans avoid attacks like trample and pounce that aren't that easy to dodge using regular "dancing."

[KillerWhale]

perhaps i'm still a bit too used to quakeLive's strafejump angle to get it all the time here in trem

They're the same.

one last thing i find mildly annoying is (1)lucijumping.  i can deal with blind lucispam.  it just gets to me that a human can march up, (2)lucijump right to just about anywhere you'd care to put the OM, drop a naid, and straight up kill the OM and anything unlucky enough to be built near or defending it.  defensive structures and defensive players dont seem to be capable of stopping this.  i dont have any suggestions about changing it, because i'm not sure it needs to be changed - it is infrequently used it seems.  (3)i just havent seen anything analogous that a single alien can do to the RC.  i havent seen everything, though.

1) What? Why? You play Quake, do you have a problem with rocketjumping?
2) Assuming there isn't a dretch there to bite them and do enough damage to kill the jumper after the massive luci damage they will take.
3) ...reactor hopping?

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Most "dodge spamming dickwads" are extremely predictable, so, all you really have to do is be able to aim. Further, dodge helps humans avoid attacks like trample and pounce that aren't that easy to dodge using regular "dancing."

tell me, in the situation i posted above (rant charging bsuit), where do i aim to hit the guy dodging backwards?

i dont think dodge should be removed, but i think perhaps it should be disabled on bsuits.  or, alternately, lower the acceleration across the board for dodging backwards.  i have no issue with side to side dodge, just back.

perhaps i'm still a bit too used to quakeLive's strafejump angle to get it all the time here in trem

They're the same.

one last thing i find mildly annoying is (1)lucijumping.  i can deal with blind lucispam.  it just gets to me that a human can march up, (2)lucijump right to just about anywhere you'd care to put the OM, drop a naid, and straight up kill the OM and anything unlucky enough to be built near or defending it.  defensive structures and defensive players dont seem to be capable of stopping this.  i dont have any suggestions about changing it, because i'm not sure it needs to be changed - it is infrequently used it seems.  (3)i just havent seen anything analogous that a single alien can do to the RC.  i havent seen everything, though.

1) What? Why? You play Quake, do you have a problem with rocketjumping?
2) Assuming there isn't a dretch there to bite them and do enough damage to kill the jumper after the massive luci damage they will take.
3) ...reactor hopping?

QL and q3 have different angles for strafejumping.  it's well documented.

1) in quake, any player can have a rocket launcher.  give me an alien with a rocket analog, and we'll call it even.

2) luci splash and that nade tend to kill dretches before they have a chance to bite.  the overmind is usually dead or dying before the offending human bites the bullet, usually from his own weapons.

3. which alien that can jump onto a RC has the damage output of luci + nade? 

[KillerWhale]

QL and q3 have different angles for strafejumping.  it's well documented.

1) in quake, any player can have a rocket launcher.  give me an alien with a rocket analog, and we'll call it even.

2) luci splash and that nade tend to kill dretches before they have a chance to bite.  the overmind is usually dead or dying before the offending human bites the bullet, usually from his own weapons.

3. which alien that can jump onto a RC has the damage output of luci + nade? 

I'd like to see the documentation on that; it'd be news to me, and I play both.

1) Dragoon pounce is actually very analogous to rocket jumping...
2) Not smart dretches.
3) This also begs the question, is your team bad enough to let either of these things happen in the first place? If yes, then a mara can do just as much.

[jm82792]

Marauder RC hopping is fine...
Flamer needs help, goons needs help.
That's the core issues that needs to be addressed before 1.2 is finalized.