Disable human dodge backwards?

[Heli]

I understand dodging to the side but could we disable or return the range of dodging backwards (or forwards).  It's not really 'dodge' and humans don't naturally jump as far backwards as they do forwards.  The bunny hop is quite weird.

Just a thought.

[mooseberry]

Your arguments against dodge seem to be based on the idea of "realism," and I would like to say as far as things go, this game is not very realistic. When creating new game mechanics, balance and enjoyment I think take higher roles than how realistic looking something is in a game fighting giant aliens.

[Firstinaction]

I see what your saying.  But when your human and you can't jump as far back then your done.
Think of it this way- when you see a big alien creature in front of you, you might want too jump back as far as possible. 

[CreatureofHell]

This is why the animation needs to be turned into the backflip. 

[Cadynum]

You're right, but unfortunately it's not going to change.

[Ripple]

(Don't put to much thought on this, I'm a largely alien player who subscribes to the creed of Humans R OP!)

    I too dislike backwards dodge, and I have a suggestion for a replacement: "Drop".
It's kind of like dropping into the position of a one-handed pushup. This doesn't get you farther from the alien, but if it's a pouncing goon/jumping dretch/bouncing mara, it will let them sail harmlessly over your head. Maybe you can hold back+dodge to remain in this position if you timed it sloppily, and when you let go you pop right back up.

    Functionality meets Realism.

[kharnov]

This doesn't get you farther from the alien, but if it's a pouncing goon/jumping dretch/bouncing mara, it will let them sail harmlessly over your head. Maybe you can hold back+dodge to remain in this position if you timed it sloppily, and when you let go you pop right back up.

Hi, it's called crouching.

[Tremulant]

In the name of realism i propose that there be a chance of tripping over and falling flat on your back when back-peddling, obviously back-peddle speed should be a lot slower than walking, too, or maybe holding shift when back-peddling should reduce the likelihood of falling over.

[OhaiReapd]

I see what your saying.  But when your human and you can't jump as far back then your done.
Think of it this way- when you see a big alien creature in front of you, you might want too jump back as far as possible.  

If you can't track back faster than an alien and need dodge to do it, you are very very bad. I can back track goon pounces and rant charges all day. Dodge should be disabled backwards or I want to be able to dodge forwards as well.

[Ripple]

This doesn't get you farther from the alien, but if it's a pouncing goon/jumping dretch/bouncing mara, it will let them sail harmlessly over your head. Maybe you can hold back+dodge to remain in this position if you timed it sloppily, and when you let go you pop right back up.

Hi, it's called crouching.

Nah, crouching brings you to about half of your standing height. I mean like a belly-to-the-deck, 1/4 of standing height thing. Don't say it wouldn't be more effective.

In the name of realism i propose that there be a chance of tripping over and falling flat on your back when back-peddling, obviously back-peddle speed should be a lot slower than walking, too, or maybe holding shift when back-peddling should reduce the likelihood of falling over.

Someone isn't taking things seriously.

[Tremulant]

In the name of realism i propose that there be a chance of tripping over and falling flat on your back when back-peddling, obviously back-peddle speed should be a lot slower than walking, too, or maybe holding shift when back-peddling should reduce the likelihood of falling over.

Someone isn't taking things seriously.

It's just as serious a suggestion as many of the complaints.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Your arguments against dodge seem to be based on the idea of "realism," and I would like to say as far as things go, this game is not very realistic. When creating new game mechanics, balance and enjoyment I think take higher roles than how realistic looking something is in a game fighting giant aliens.

in the interest of balance i purpose that aliens get side dodging, and a FORWARD dodge, but no back.  in the interest of balance, i suggest that this forward dodge has twice the range of a human back dodge, and twice the speed.  this is for "small aliens"  at mara it can be adjusted, then rant will have a rediculously small dodge.

kind of like how human dodge should be modified by what armor they are wearing.  is is modified by armor, isnt it?  if not, making it so will go a long way to balance.

or, we can do the easy thing, disable human back dodge.  it is OP and unbalancing.  especially when used where there is a negative elevation behind the dodging human (for instance, in the hall of ATCS, humans can dodge a mile if they back-dodge at the top of one of the ramps)

my interpretation of developer intent is that offence is to be rewarded, defence less so.  dodge runs counter to this sentiment as it encourages a far more defensive style of play.  so, in the name of balance, not realism, i ask that back dodge be removed.

[Heli]

Your arguments against dodge seem to be based on the idea of "realism," and I would like to say as far as things go, this game is not very realistic. When creating new game mechanics, balance and enjoyment I think take higher roles than how realistic looking something is in a game fighting giant aliens.

True - I'm thinking more about balance though.  Maybe have dodge backwards take up more energy?  All I know is that a good human player can do 4 backward dodges and that will take out most aliens.  Good thing most players don't know that though.

[Dracone]

All I know is that a good human player any random fuck can do 4 backward dodges and that will take out most aliens. Good thing most players don't know that though seem to have a key bound to dodge.

[OhaiReapd]

All I know is that a good human player any random fuck can do 4 backward dodges and that will take out most aliens. Good thing most players don't know that though seem to have a key bound to dodge.

New sig. Thanks

[ziplocpeople]

Humans run faster strafing than they do going backwards, I think dodge should work the same way. It's only logical.

[Tremulant]

Simple solution, stop avoiding using dodge, start fucking up norf's stats with it to the point that he can see it's unbalancing the game, this applies to any change you feel is op.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

just wondering, as i find playing human distasteful, isnt it possible to use back dodge as a boost to backwards strafejumping?  if this is indeed the case, would it not be true that no alien class could ever hope to reach a human who has backdodges and sucessfully strafejumped twice?

i've seen some quite high speeds on players doing the dodge from on top of ATCS hallramp, i shudder to think what would be possible with just two additional jumps.

[Cadynum]

Simple solution, stop avoiding using dodge, start fucking up norf's stats with it to the point that he can see it's unbalancing the game, this applies to any change you feel is op.

It's practically impossible to extract any relevant dodge data from the stats. It has to be balanced based on feeling.

I think dodge is for the worse based on two reasons. First off it doesn't make a lot of sense and is what you can call 'unrealistic'. If your counter argument is that tremulous is not realistic you have missed the point. Nobody is complaining about the telenode, a device creating clones with a throughput of 6 humans per minute*. The reason why some dislike dodge, including me, is that it doesn't make sense. It looks stupid and is unrealistic when you accelerate backwards or to the side faster than you can sprint forwards.  If your counter argument to this is to replace the animation with a backflip I think I just stop typing right now.

The second reason is for the game mechanic itself. When humans stick together there is almost never any need for dodge. It's mainly useful if you're out adventuring by yourself. The exception is against dretches where dodge, unfortunately, is quite useful. It's unfortunate because dretches are already horribly weak.

[Tremulant]

We're constantly told that humans are ZOMG OP, the stats will surely bear this out, yes you wont be able to tell if it's directly related to dodge, but you'll see a sharp drop off in the aliens ability to kill these god-like humans. Then again, the other half of the time people are screaming about aliens being ZOMG OP, the main issue is that many people just aren't very good, so throw a few skilled players into a match and you get some very grumpy ragequitters whining about nolifers.

Dodge doesn't make a lot of sense graphically, that much is true.

[Ripple]

...the main issue is that many people just aren't very good...

Simple solution, stop avoiding using dodge, start fucking up norf's stats with it to the point that he can see it's unbalancing the game, this applies to any change you feel is op.

+1

Also it is interesting to note:

•Realistic physics and motion - no bunny hopping or quick back peddling

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Also it is interesting to note:

•Realistic physics and motion - no bunny hopping or quick back peddling

is there anything that uses q3 as a base that actually follows that?

[Ripple]

Also it is interesting to note:

•Realistic physics and motion - no bunny hopping or quick back peddling

is there anything that uses q3 as a base that actually follows that?

Hah, probably not, but it doesn't change the fact that they said they wouldn't.

[Heli]

Also it is interesting to note:

•Realistic physics and motion - no bunny hopping or quick back peddling

is there anything that uses q3 as a base that actually follows that?

Hah, probably not, but it doesn't change the fact that they said they wouldn't.

I think though that page is referencing Trem 1.1.  When 1.2 comes out, they'll probably update it to remove that line as it will include quick back peddling.

[vcxzet]

[Meisseli]

Disabling backward dodge is useless since there's practically no additional delay in turning your mouse 90° thus making a sideward dodge.

[Dracone]

If dodge is nerfed in any way I guarantee we see a severe increase in complaints by human players who use dodge in relation to getting raped in combat by pretty much every alien.

Whether or not things came about in this sequence, this is the way I see it:

1.) Bunch of aliens were given boosts on attacks/abilities that are extremely difficult to dodge using simple movements (given a decent or better alien player). Said attacks take a great deal less skill than the former primaries (chomp).

2.) The ability of humans to avoid these attacks becomes pathetically underpowered, and skilled simple movements are no longer enough. So the humans are given an ability to help them on this, AND a stamina boost to go with it. The result is that the human's way of avoiding the buffed alien attacks takes little to no skill itself, and is also abusable if combined with getting pounced.

Don't give me any of that jump bullshit, jump won't do shit for you against a goon that's legitimately accurate with pounce (and this isn't saying much). Maybe against the ones who take the pounce's OP for granted and spam.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Disabling backward dodge is useless since there's practically no additional delay in turning your mouse 90° thus making a sideward dodge.

except, you know, you have to stop shooting the alien.

[Meisseli]

Disabling backward dodge is useless since there's practically no additional delay in turning your mouse 90° thus making a sideward dodge.

except, you know, you have to stop shooting the alien.

Oh, do I have to make a recording of some sort or should you try for yourself how much that delay is, making you unable to score perhaps even two to three rifle shots!

[Saliva]

Disabling backward dodge is useless since there's practically no additional delay in turning your mouse 90° thus making a sideward dodge.

There is a delay that depends on the player. Even the better players will lose firepower doing that even if they are using a shotgun or mass driver. You must also take into account that you need to find your target again after making the sidedodge. Luci is the only exception when timed right.

I don't like dodge because of it's effect on dretch but it's not all bad. Dodge is important when using painsaw or flamer. It really helps that you can sidedodge closer to an alien.