no Overmind = no alien regeneration, aliens legs/arms,reload for all guns...

[wolfbr]

one idea:
the game is unbalanced in sudden death, because the ammunition from humans is limited, and if the reactor is destroyed, the aliens only have to hit and run, and wait for the humans become out of ammo.
thus, the OM would be more important, and the game would be more balanced, especially in sudden death.

other idea:
for aliens, you can see your arms and legs in fist person vision, like avp(not natural selection, that the camera is inside the mouth of the aliens)

and alien vision, you can see in dark places, and especially see the hidden human(like avp : ) )


off:some stuff from avp 3 appear to have been taken from the tremulous, like you do not see your arms all the time, just when you attack(like future 1.2) or looks down, and the small crosshair for aliens(that was not present in earlier versions, avp 1 and 2), and gons Pounce for aliens in avp2 and avp3. : )

[CreatureofHell]

Once the reactor is destroyed aliens are very likely to win anyway.

[Plague Bringer]

off:some stuff from avp 3 appear to have been taken from the tremulous, like you do not see your arms all the time, just when you attack(like future 1.2) or looks down, and the small crosshair for aliens(that was not present in earlier versions, avp 1 and 2), and gons Pounce for aliens in avp2 and avp3. : )

lol

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

one idea:
the game is unbalanced in sudden death, because the ammunition from humans is limited, and if the reactor is destroyed, the aliens only have to hit and run, and wait for the humans become out of ammo.
thus, the OM would be more important, and the game would be more balanced, especially in sudden death.

other idea:
for aliens, you can see your arms and legs in fist person vision, like avp(not natural selection, that the camera is inside the mouth of the aliens)

and alien vision, you can see in dark places, and especially see the hidden human(like avp : ) )


off:some stuff from avp 3 appear to have been taken from the tremulous, like you do not see your arms all the time, just when you attack(like future 1.2) or looks down, and the small crosshair for aliens(that was not present in earlier versions, avp 1 and 2), and gons Pounce for aliens in avp2 and avp3. : )

you do know that in SD, if you kill the overmind, no alien will be able to further evolve, and all you have to do is hunt down dretches and grangers (aside from whoever had evolved beforehand)..... right?

yes, the crosshair did exist in avp 1 & 2 for aliens.  and for the record, it is more likely they took elements from avp 1 & 2 than trem to concoct new avp.  aside from the idiotic cinematic one shots.  whoever came up with that needs to be shot, that does not work in a deathmatch game.

furthermore, aliens regen slow enough without creep or a basi.  if you ask me, the game is already tweaked out to be consistently slightly in the humans' favour, no need to make it glaringly so.

or, if you like, mod the game to be like this yourself (it is open source after all) and run your own server.  you can name it "alien duckshoot" or something similar.

[wolfbr]

exemple:
3x humans vs 3x aliens in sudden death:

2 battle suit+chaingun and one luci x 2 tt and 1 gon

no human base, no alien base
who wins?

simple, aliens, aliens can regenerate, they just need to play with humans until they spend all their ammunition, attack and retreat, blood regeneration, attack and retreat again, until all humans are dead, sure that the game is in favor of humans?
humans can not regenerate itself without the medi, or get more ammunition without the armory, or reload their weapons without the reactor.

but, aliens no need to reload ammunition (just gon, but he does it alone), and can regenerate themselves, again, sure that the game is in favor of humans?

--
course, the game would be balanced to have this change, exemple: no more super rocket launcher luci(i like more the old luci from 1.1), or nob guns like 1.2 chaingun or super splash shotgun. : ), one thing I do not like the new balance is the guns are easy to use and master, while it is more difficult to play with aliens.
1.2 aliens vs 1.1 humans are perfect to me : )

[Haraldx]

If the humans are noobs then it's not the fact aliens are overpowered. I have chopped down many tyrants single handedly using a chainsuit. When dodging it's attacks, try going to the place where would the tyrant, and if the tyrant tries to run away, you can just pump him with bullets while rushing him instead of running away like most noobs do. If done correctly the tyrant will not find cover from bullets in time and will be forced to either rush you and try to kill you or get chaingunned. Goons are more of a problem - they are smaller and can dodge better, their pounce is also a much faster way to move than tyrants charge attack. Never really been good at killing goons, but if I kill them I use a gun with rather good spread - shotgun, chaingun, flamer or rarely painsaw.

[wolfbr]

very calm, patience, and Errors of the adversary, it is possible to kill a large alien alone, however this is only possible on some maps(maps with various obstacles).
maps in wide open or closed, it is almost impossible a good chainsuit to kill a good tt alone, and when you're getting, the monster runs, and then comes back, you're low on ammo, then he kills you.

in normal games, only the human returns to base to reload ammunition, but if they do not have a base, it is no defense, this is not true for aliens.

maybe this change that I suggested, could affect the game a little, maybe if all the weapons have "reload"(Lgun) or "overheating"(flamer,chaingun,luci secondary fire..), it would help balance the game, and the aliens always have an opening for attack.

[Venkman]

in normal games, only the human returns to base to reload ammunition, but if they do not have a base, it is no defense, this is not true for aliens.

The factor that you keep overlooking or, more accurately, negating is that humans CAN heal. Humans CAN reload. If their base is gone, the game is over. If both bases are gone, the game is pretty much over and basically a draw. All that's left is the bragging rights of a final clash (or more often, a great chase.) Also, the humans' range is enough to compensate for any alien's maneuverability. That's when it comes down to weapon/class and each player's individual skill.

And unless EVERY alien that had evolved passed Dretch/Granger at the time of their base's destruction is still alive after the last spawn goes down (in which case, they're doing it wrong or they got snuck... in which case, they're doing it wrong) most of them could very easily fall prey to even a halfway-competent group of naked rifles.

P.S.
I miss you guys, this game, and most importantly a real internet connection. Soon, though... Hopefully, soon.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

very calm, patience, and Errors of the adversary, it is possible to kill a large alien alone, however this is only possible on some maps(maps with various obstacles).
maps in wide open or closed, it is almost impossible a good chainsuit to kill a good tt alone, and when you're getting, the monster runs, and then comes back, you're low on ammo, then he kills you.

in normal games, only the human returns to base to reload ammunition, but if they do not have a base, it is no defense, this is not true for aliens.

maybe this change that I suggested, could affect the game a little, maybe if all the weapons have "reload"(Lgun) or "overheating"(flamer,chaingun,luci secondary fire..), it would help balance the game, and the aliens always have an opening for attack.

here's the kicker, friend tyran needs to get close to you to kill you.  if you can see friend tyran, you can shoot him, meaning you can eventually kill him.  if you know the proper use of your stamina and how to dance up close with the tyrant, one suit is definitely a match for him.  furthermore, the use of your one medkit at the most opportune time gives you a good counterbalance to alien regeneration.  on top of that, the tyrant must aim his slashes at the vague "head" of the suit for maximum damage.  if the human shoots the tyrant anywhere on his hitbox, he takes full damage.

so learn the maps, learn your equipment, and learn how to work with your team (even if they are just a collection of random fucks on us1 or whatever) and you'll see friend tyran isnt too big a deal.  i'd be more worried about mara+ and goon+, were i you.

[jm82792]

I don't fully understand what your trying to communicate.
But in my opinion the humans are definitely more base orientated.
If they lose the medistation they are partially fried.
If the arm is gone  they are toast.
For aliens if they have an egg and om they are fine.
But that's just how trem is and it seems balanced.

[wolfbr]

in some games(sd and no alien base), one tt(or gon) alone kill several humans, run, regenerates itself, and back to do it all again, it seems balanced?

it would be interesting humans are less dependent on their base, the aliens and more dependent on their base.
I understand that the two races have to be different, but fun is not only humans get defensive or aliens offensive.

and,he human need for small changes are not as powerful in certain situations(good team work), exemple> reload(lgun,blaster) or overheating(psaw,flamer,chaingun) for all humans weapons, inaccurate for some guns(rifle(basic weapon, no need much power and lgun) ; )

[jm82792]

Perhaps limit them to only being able to buy one kind of energy weapon from rc?

[wolfbr]

or, you cant reload all time in reator/reapealer(time delay, like 3 or 5 minutes) for prevent reactor campers(lucis an prifles).
pleas, ammo pack for humans in s3 : ) (maybe +25% ammo, maybe, 40/50 ammo clip for rifle or 400/500 for chaingun, the weapon model change to, lige cmag for rifle and shogun)

no overmind = alien regeneration, but, defenses would be a little better,is to let more fun for people who build, and who invades.

another thing would be to change a bit is turrets, the gun turret have longer range, however, the shots would be inaccurate(like TFC/TF2, hl/hl2 or natural selection), more for fun, in close range, humans buy teslas, for long range, buy turrets, make sense for me : ).

same for aliens, close range, buy acidtubes, long range, buy hives. : )

in both cases, short range Structures has the advantage of causing damage to several enemies at once, seems fair and fun for me.

and i hate super luci and ninja maras,the problem of lucis is that it devalues ​​the other weapons, rapid fire, great damage, easy to use, unlike 1.1 luci, and goon and tt aare weaker in gpp, mara and powerful and more viable(at least, so was the last time I tested the gpp). i hate to see a arm of luci+battle suit or mara rush in gpp severs, 1.1 aliens are far overpowerd, but, players vary in the equipment and alien class

[Venkman]

in some games(sd and no alien base), one tt(or gon) alone kill several humans, run, regenerates itself, and back to do it all again, it seems balanced?

Did the Aliens win? Did that one Rant manage to take out your entire base without dying once? If so, then you and/or your team are, how can I put this nicely? Just the worst.

And if Aliens didn't win, then what are you complaining about? It is balanced because that group of humans could just as easily have taken out one rant with the right kind of coordinated fire.

human need for small changes are not as powerful in certain situations(good team work), exemple> reload(lgun,blaster) or overheating(psaw,flamer,chaingun) for all humans weapons, inaccurate for some guns(rifle(basic weapon, no need much power and lgun) ; )

If you think the rifle is inaccurate, you need to practice burst firing. And if you really think Aliens are OP, then try playing as them. For one, it will show you why you're wrong. Also, looking from the outside in may teach you better human strategy.

[Tremulant]

the problem of lucis is that it devalues ​​the other weapons, rapid fire, great damage, easy to use, unlike 1.1 luci

This is you, right, the guy without a single luci kill to his name and only 30 minutes of experience in GPP for the last phase?
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=3156

[Qrntz]

the problem of lucis is that it devalues ​​the other weapons, rapid fire, great damage, easy to use, unlike 1.1 luci

This is you, right, the guy without a single luci kill to his name and only 30 minutes of experience in GPP for the last phase?
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=3156

Code: [Select]

Random Quote:  i hate the new lucilol.

[wolfbr]

the problem of lucis is that it devalues ​​the other weapons, rapid fire, great damage, easy to use, unlike 1.1 luci

This is you, right, the guy without a single luci kill to his name and only 30 minutes of experience in GPP for the last phase?
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=3156

base defender gameplay style, and game to test things without compromise, and yes, awhile since I do not play GGP, I prefer the 1.1, try to attack the arguments out instead of attacking the person, kid trol ; )

in some games(sd and no alien base), one tt(or gon) alone kill several humans, run, regenerates itself, and back to do it all again, it seems balanced?

Did the Aliens win? Did that one Rant manage to take out your entire base without dying once? If so, then you and/or your team are, how can I put this nicely? Just the worst.

And if Aliens didn't win, then what are you complaining about? It is balanced because that group of humans could just as easily have taken out one rant with the right kind of coordinated fire.

human need for small changes are not as powerful in certain situations(good team work), exemple> reload(lgun,blaster) or overheating(psaw,flamer,chaingun) for all humans weapons, inaccurate for some guns(rifle(basic weapon, no need much power and lgun) ; )

If you think the rifle is inaccurate, you need to practice burst firing. And if you really think Aliens are OP, then try playing as them. For one, it will show you why you're wrong. Also, looking from the outside in may teach you better human strategy.

I just said that basically aliens are powerful in sd(alien regeneration), because Humans have limited resources, and the aliens do not, and for few naked humans is basically impossible to kill a pro tt/advgon(draw), if humans can kill, it's much playing time he spent with several players waiting(like CS round games style)

you got it wrong, I think the rifle needs more "inaccuracy"(like lgun), not less inacuracy, since dretchs are weaker, the rifle could be a bit weaker, yet still easy to use.

for me, lgun need the actual rifle spread, and rifle need more spread(obviously ,would be more accurate than the chaingun)

[Meisseli]

I'll prefer attacking the person instead, how about play the game before you start to mumbo jumbo weird changes with poor English.

Having so much feedback with not playing GPP is indeed an impressive feat you have achieved.

[Garion]

let's replace humans with the predators (like avp )

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

let's replace humans with the predators (like avp )

what, not preytors?

clearly wolfbr needs to learn to bind dodge.  a rant goes down in what, 2 charged luci shots and 2 secondary?  its nearly possible to get that before a fully charged rantcharge expires.

trust me, in most situations a rant is going to be camping/defending the alien base.  when 1 rant attacks the humans (with "lesser" alien backup) the rant is there primarily to take bullets for the maras and goons, and perhaps get a tesla down or two.  the exception is a rantrush, and if you are on the receiving end of a rantrush, your team did something very wrong, or just wasent good enough for the opposition.

discussion of rants being OP in SD when neither team has a base is moot.  it's SD, and there are no bases.  that is not the "normal" state of the game and the game should not be balanced for such.

do you have a plan for SD when the OM dies and all the aliens have available are dretches (which cannot attack structures) and grangers?

[Menace13]

Code: [Select]

Random Quote:  i hate the new lucilol.

That's his ONLY quote.

[wolfbr]

do you have a plan for SD when the OM dies and all the aliens have available are dretches (which cannot attack structures) and grangers?

and aliens who evolved before the OM be destroyed? that aliens do not lose their strength, the only downside is that regenerate more slowly without the base, but that does not get on most maps.

maybe, if the aliens been allowed to regenerate only when killing someone, they would not be weak in sd, and would not be so strong(eat some heads/hearts to get some life)
--
I will not waste my time responding trolls : ), but, I'm not forced to play only on official servers, and i like the 1.1(and the new luci is not funny/strategic as the old in my opinion), and this topic is not to argue GGP, but SD(sd in the foreground), and go to the kitchen to make coffee with milk for you while watching hentai and Equant eat fat things : )- end

[Tremulant]

the problem of lucis is that it devalues ​​the other weapons, rapid fire, great damage, easy to use, unlike 1.1 luci

This is you, right, the guy without a single luci kill to his name and only 30 minutes of experience in GPP for the last phase?
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=3156

base defender gameplay style, and game to test things without compromise, and yes, awhile since I do not play GGP, I prefer the 1.1, try to attack the arguments out instead of attacking the person, kid trol ; )

The fact that you're talking out of your arse and have no concept of how the game plays is pretty key to the argument, sorry. The only trolling going on here appears to be the generic manshoot fan demanding changes while refusing to play the game they'd be applied to, good stuff.

Now, for further lulz, we have RAKninja pretending to have actually played a meaningful amount of GPP, too.

clearly wolfbr needs to learn to bind dodge.  a rant goes down in what, 2 charged luci shots and 2 secondary?

I see zero luci cannon kills in your tremstats, but an awful lot of deaths by it. I personally find it very hard to take down a rant with the new luci, even with dodge.

you got it wrong, I think the rifle needs more "inaccuracy"(like lgun), not less inacuracy, since dretchs are weaker, the rifle could be a bit weaker, yet still easy to use.

for me, lgun need the actual rifle spread, and rifle need more spread(obviously ,would be more accurate than the chaingun)

I hate to state the obvious, but you're not making any sense.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Now, for further lulz, we have RAKninja pretending to have actually played a meaningful amount of GPP, too.

clearly wolfbr needs to learn to bind dodge.  a rant goes down in what, 2 charged luci shots and 2 secondary?

I see zero luci cannon kills in your tremstats, but an awful lot of deaths by it. I personally find it very hard to take down a rant with the new luci, even with dodge.

hey, your right.  on this qkey (and gpp phase) i have played human less times than i have fingers.  i'm an alien player, sue me. i also have 11 rifle kills, but 600+ rifle deaths.  i must not understand how the rifle works, or, it must be really hard to kill dretches with a rifle, and i just suck that bad.  as you mentioned, i'm on the receiving end of the luci, not the giving end.  still, it is not that hard to kill a rant.  especially as rants tend to draw the fire of every human in visual range.

and while you, personally, have trouble with rants, i fight many people who have no problem facing one down at close range wit shotty/larmor/helmet, or other similar combos.  hell, the painsaw is considered acceptable for rantfighting.

edit, on the subject of tremstats, i have far more kills with rant than you, and far less deaths by rant.  does this mean i am expert rant player?  i have more kills as basi than you have for all aliens minus mara and dretch combined. you have an overall score per game of  158, mine is 113.  i have seven more hours of playtime as alien.

now, any more brilliant observations of statistics you would like to make, and guesses as to what these statistics actually indicate, or perhaps you would like to refute my claims that both luci and rant are fine, and to claim otherwise is to announce that you need to "play the game more"?

[c4]

I see zero luci cannon kills in your tremstats, but an awful lot of deaths by it. I personally find it very hard to take down a rant with the new luci, even with dodge.

The issue in this case isn't even the luci.  It's the fact that the devs made high damage attacks out of tools for movement on aliens.  I don't recall in 1.1 ever using rant trample to kill bsuits.  I also don't recall pouncing s2 humans to death.  What was it, EIGHT pounces in 1.1?  

The underlying issue in fact is that Lucifer Cannon vs Rant is that even if you dodge backwards 90 feet, the tyrant will miraculously still have enough charge left to fuck you in the ass.

hey, your right.  on this qkey (and gpp phase) i have played human less times than i have fingers.  i'm an alien player, sue me. i also have 11 rifle kills, but 600+ rifle deaths.  i must not understand how the rifle works, or, it must be really hard to kill dretches with a rifle, and i just suck that bad.  as you mentioned, i'm on the receiving end of the luci, not the giving end.  still, it is not that hard to kill a rant.  especially as rants tend to draw the fire of every human in visual range.

and while you, personally, have trouble with rants, i fight many people who have no problem facing one down at close range wit shotty/larmor/helmet, or other similar combos.  hell, the painsaw is considered acceptable for rantfighting.

edit, on the subject of tremstats, i have far more kills with rant than you, and far less deaths by rant.  does this mean i am expert rant player?  i have more kills as basi than you have for all aliens minus mara and dretch combined. you have an overall score per game of  158, mine is 113.  i have seven more hours of playtime as alien.


now, any more brilliant observations of statistics you would like to make, and guesses as to what these statistics actually indicate, or perhaps you would like to refute my claims that both luci and rant are fine, and to claim otherwise is to announce that you need to "play the game more"?

RAKNinja SUKC AT TREMMLUS

[Tremulant]

and while you, personally, have trouble with rants, i fight many people who have no problem facing one down at close range wit shotty/larmor/helmet, or other similar combos.  hell, the painsaw is considered acceptable for rantfighting.

I suppose i tend to think in terms of the rants i've had trouble with, the easy ones can't be as memorable, a rant that can not only use trample to good effect but also slashes effectively is an absolute bugger to deal with, putting distance between you and them is essential, and at this point the luci becomes too easily dodgeable.

edit, on the subject of tremstats, i have far more kills with rant than you, and far less deaths by rant.  does this mean i am expert rant player?  i have more kills as basi than you have for all aliens minus mara and dretch combined. you have an overall score per game of  158, mine is 113.  i have seven more hours of playtime as alien.

compared to me you almost certainly are an expert rant, i'm terrible, i really should practice more, but i find maras far more fun.

now, any more brilliant observations of statistics you would like to make, and guesses as to what these statistics actually indicate, or perhaps you would like to refute my claims that both luci and rant are fine, and to claim otherwise is to announce that you need to "play the game more"?

I queried the idea that it was easy to take down a rant with a luci, are you taking rants down left right and centre with lucis, or are your rants being taken down by them?

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I queried the idea that it was easy to take down a rant with a luci, are you taking rants down left right and centre with lucis, or are your rants being taken down by them?

as i almost always play alien, it's almost always my rants that fall to lucis.  a human that knows how to dodge and use the luci is usually all i can handle solo.  these are usually the same players that hunt rants with shottys and such.  granted these players are few in the unwashed masses of US1.

it seems, at least from rant's-eye-view, that there is something of a sweet spot for fighting rants, just outside of swipe range is also just about as far as you need to be to minimise splashing yourself with luci.  constantly dodging in a circle around the rant, and switching direction unpredictably allows you to ensure he cant just trample you, because if he misses he will be wide open for a shot in the back.  uncontrolled spinning while charging often hangs you up in level geometry, also allowing a somewhat easy kill.  or you can dodge-skip backwards ahead of the trample (or perhaps allowing an instant of the trample to boost your own velocity backwards) unloading charged-shot + secondary after charged-shot + secondary and have the rant dead before his charge bar is fully depleted.

short version, when taken down as a rant against a solo human, most often it is a lucifer (suit or just armor) wielding human.  less often are chainguns (suit only, armor does not seem to allow them to live long enough to make the kill most times) or shotguns(suit or armor).  all other weapons are negligible, solo.

[c4]

Maybe the trouble is more on your end, RAK.  If you run straight at a Luci from a distance there is no way in hell you're going to survive. You have to wait for them to make the first move.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Maybe the trouble is more on your end, RAK.  If you run straight at a Luci from a distance there is no way in hell you're going to survive. You have to wait for them to make the first move.

nah, that doesent fit my playstyle.  i rarely start charging less than 2-3 rant-lengths away, anyway.  backskipping lucis are usually found in long halls, such as the ATCS hall.

as i said, i dont have trouble as a rant.

anyone else wanna jump on my back for saying the luci and rant are fine?

[Tremulant]

anyone else wanna jump on my back for saying the luci and rant are fine?

That's not quite why they're jumping on your back.