Author Topic: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.  (Read 34776 times)

SirDude

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Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« on: July 23, 2011, 03:14:08 pm »
Simple thread for people to list their simple ideas for fixes of trems issues no matter the issues they bring for. Make a separate thread to debate your ideas as this is simply a reference thread.

Teamwork might be better organized if there was a designated person to follow.

Normal grangers should be able to wall walk if on creep as transitions between a S1 alien base and S2 base is terrible.

Extend flamer range and make it narrower.

Give us some news on 1.2 development, every lawn needs to be watered from time to time.

Number key driven menus.

Remove 1 hit kills.
Sorry...

Revamp the CD in some way.

Tyrant charge seems too effective at attacking base multiple structures at times, reduce charge deterioration when attacking structures. 

Enhance basi swipe range.

Buff dretch health to take/almost take one more rifle round yet still die from one MD hit.

From what we have seen of the new 1.2 weapon models, let us use the red dots some have (not zoom). they look to awesome.

balance chomp with pounce.


OhaiReapd

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 04:38:17 pm »
Finally, something you post that could be construed as useful.

kharnov

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 06:21:37 pm »
Great! Another troll thread!

We were down on our quota for those recently.

Plague Bringer

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 06:24:11 pm »
ADS (Aim Down Sights) is a feature used in slower paced games. ADS generally features lowered sensitivity and slight zoom because it's used for accuracy. In Tremulous, ADS would be useless because of A) the speed of the aliens B) the crosshair C) the lack of bonus from ADS.

Also, do we really need a thread that's sole purpose is to direct us to other threads? ESPECIALLY about this topic?
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Haraldx

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 08:12:49 pm »
Oh god, another faggotry suggestion thread.
Teamwork might be better organized if there was a designated person to follow.
Care to explain?

Normal grangers should be able to wall walk if on creep as transitions between a S1 alien base and S2 base is terrible.
Oh yeah, now they can make eggs in places where HS1 can no way get up to.

Extend flamer range and make it narrower.
Reason?

Give us some news on 1.2 development, every lawn needs to be watered from time to time.
Stannum posts new pictures from time to time, however I agree.

Number key driven menus.
Last time I checked Jex remade the interface and it featured this.


Remove 1 hit kills.
Sorry...
You high?

Revamp the CD in some way.
Revamp the what? Compact disk?

Tyrant charge seems too effective at attacking base multiple structures at times, reduce charge deterioration when attacking structures. 
As much as I don't want to agree you, I have to.

Enhance basi swipe range.
Basi grab range is longer than swipe, if you can grab then you can swipe.

Buff dretch health to take/almost take one more rifle round yet still die from one MD hit.
That would be adding 5 more hp. Reason?

From what we have seen of the new 1.2 weapon models, let us use the red dots some have (not zoom). they look to awesome.
What would be the use of them then? Reason?

balance chomp with pounce.
Increasing the range a bit would do the trick, it was a bit over-kill in 1.1 tho.

...princibles of judgement do not apply to me.
I JUST MINED ANIMATED CREATURES

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 10:55:29 pm »
Simple thread for people to list their simple ideas for fixes of trems issues no matter the issues they bring for. Make a separate thread to debate your ideas as this is simply a reference thread.

Teamwork might be better organized if there was a designated person to follow.

Normal grangers should be able to wall walk if on creep as transitions between a S1 alien base and S2 base is terrible.

Extend flamer range and make it narrower.

Give us some news on 1.2 development, every lawn needs to be watered from time to time.

Number key driven menus.

Remove 1 hit kills.
Sorry...

Revamp the CD in some way.

Tyrant charge seems too effective at attacking base multiple structures at times, reduce charge deterioration when attacking structures. 

Enhance basi swipe range.

Buff dretch health to take/almost take one more rifle round yet still die from one MD hit.

From what we have seen of the new 1.2 weapon models, let us use the red dots some have (not zoom). they look to awesome.

balance chomp with pounce.


no, it is up to the players to decide that.  this is not battlefield.

get s2 and evolve, it's really not that hard.

no. flat out no.  nothing but nerf for flamer.

here is news on 1.2 development.  we. need. sounds.

nothing is stopping you from making your own hud with numpad driven menus

see my thread.

???

tyrants fall fast to concentrated fire.  kill the rant before he can charge, or else you invite the comparison "luci shots are far too effective on structures...."

basi range is fine.  trust me on this. 

see my 1hko thread...again.

laser sights? is that what you mean by "red dots"?  umm, ok, but pointless.

i'd rather have "range dependant pounce".
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Plague Bringer

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2011, 11:18:34 pm »
no, it is up to the players to decide that.  this is not battlefield.
you are suggesting that all sheep should herd themselves without a sheperd. that said, Tremhelper's idea wouldn't work too well, either.

get s2 and evolve, it's really not that hard.
you don't like one hit kills on a fresh spawn? get 1 evo and evolve, it's not really that hard. this is an incredibly stupid argument you've put forth.

no. flat out no.  nothing but nerf for flamer.

here is news on 1.2 development.  we. need. sounds.

nothing is stopping you from making your own hud with numpad driven menus
and you would say the same if the default HUD didn't display your health, or ammo, or inventory? his suggestion is legitimate and helpful. a menu system would (of course) be optional and it would introduce many players to binds - increasing the average skill level by at least a little bit.

see my thread.

???

tyrants fall fast to concentrated fire.  kill the rant before he can charge, or else you invite the comparison "luci shots are far too effective on structures...."
you have made the assumption that the luci is as effective vs alien buildings as the tyrant is vs human buildings. this is both fallacious and stupid. you give no evidence or basis for your claim, and have invited my rebuttal which is as follows: "tyrant trample is far more effective than the lucifer cannon".

basi range is fine.  trust me on this. 

see my 1hko thread...again.

laser sights? is that what you mean by "red dots"?  umm, ok, but pointless.


i'd rather have "range dependant pounce".
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Tremulant

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 01:10:49 am »

Ah, yeah, because trem has no crosshairs, so we'll need red dots and iron sights, that'll be really usef... no, wait.
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RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 01:16:40 am »
yes.  it is not too hard. players are not sheep.  someone says "rush!" or "defend the base!"  do it.  we do not need leader mechanics.

wallwalk and 1hko are two different things.  furthermore, countering a "stupid argument" with one just as stupid (by your own reasoning) is incredibly ignorant.  s1 grangers should not have any wallwalk.  transitioning the base through the stages is a big part of the game, and pretty much fine as it is.  you want to wallwalk and build shit on the walls and ceilings, get s2.  just like if you want to zap or shoot barbs.  just like if you want head protection and radar as a human.  

how do premade binds help introduce people to binds?  this is not ammo or health display we are talking about.  not something integral to the game, but something optional.  optional means "do it your damn self, lazyass".  binds do not improve aim, teach you the levels, or show you how to effectively use the tools at your disposal.  it therefore does not "increase the skill level", and is just a lazyman's way to get premade binds.  the bind command was introduced in what iD game?  how long ago was it released?  get the point?

let me ask you this, what can a rant break with one charge?  how big is rantcharge splash?  how much power does luci lose per unit of distance travelled?  as we are talking about rant/luci vs structures, what do you base your claims on?  hypocrite much?  if you are bothered by my lack of evidence or basis, why do you stoop to my level, instead of showing me up?  oh yea, because any evidence or basis either of us can show is anecdotal.  

Quote
A red dot sight is a common classification[1] for a type of non-magnifying reflector (or reflex) sight for firearms that gives the user an aimpoint in the form of a red dot.
we called them "reflex sights" in the military.  i was unaware that the common usage in the civilian world was "red dot".  regardless, such a sight is superfluous.  it provides no real benefit (as it should not) over the standard crosshair, and is purely cosmetic.  as such, if ever developed for trem, it should be among one of the lowest of priority projects.  again, if desired so badly, make it yourself.

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Plague Bringer

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 06:28:13 am »
yes.  it is not too hard. players are not sheep.  someone says "rush!" or "defend the base!"  do it.  we do not need leader mechanics.

YOU hop on US1 at peak hours and tell people to rush (preferably while the OM is up and A base isn't under siege). Unless you have someone who isn't a sheeple (I.E. most of the forum-goers), no one will rush. Seriously, try your luck. Please come back and post a demo or ten (for the sake of having a broad sample to judge the effectiveness of this strategy from). Pub players have no reason to listen to you. You have no bubble above your head that says "Commander!" They go about their business by themselves. Most of the time their objective isn't even to kill the enemy base until someone else starts.

wallwalk and 1hko are two different things.  furthermore, countering a "stupid argument" with one just as stupid (by your own reasoning) is incredibly ignorant.  s1 grangers should not have any wallwalk.  transitioning the base through the stages is a big part of the game, and pretty much fine as it is.  you want to wallwalk and build shit on the walls and ceilings, get s2.  just like if you want to zap or shoot barbs.  just like if you want head protection and radar as a human.

Congratulations, you have completely avoided my crushing your horribly fallacious argument by putting it in words more personal to you, by pretending that the subject of the argument matters. No. It is the argument, itself, that matters, and your argument is crap. It should have been obvious that I was mocking your argument and putting it into terms that you'd understand - not seriously contesting the logic of it. You need to restock your reserves of common sense - they are dangerously low.

how do premade binds help introduce people to binds?  this is not ammo or health display we are talking about.  not something integral to the game, but something optional.  optional means "do it your damn self, lazyass".  binds do not improve aim, teach you the levels, or show you how to effectively use the tools at your disposal.  it therefore does not "increase the skill level", and is just a lazyman's way to get premade binds.  the bind command was introduced in what iD game?  how long ago was it released?  get the point?
Go into console, and type...
/unbind all
/bind W +moveforward
Press W. What happens?
This game is absolutely chock full of premade binds, and people change their binds all the time through the menu system. Introducing a bind-menu system along with a notification/readme/tutorial/wiki telling people how to change it will get them using binds to their advantage. If you think that speed and efficiency are not things that constitute "skill", then I think you need to reevaluate your definition of skill. No, having a bind-menu will not automagically create Tremulous wizards. Neither Warlock nor Dracone nor Eye will not spread their e-seed through this bind-menu, BUT, I do believe that this bind menu will help players create positive habits such as evolving on the move and spending less time at the armory. And before you try and shoot that down, no, I do not believe that if you can evolve on the move you are skilled. I do, however, believe that if you are skilled you can evolve on the move. Binds also help with communication. While they are limited in how much they can communicate, the speed at which you can with them is unmatchable without using a VOIP program. Are you trying to tell me that communication, speed, and efficiency, are not measures of skill?

let me ask you this, what can a rant break with one charge?  how big is rantcharge splash?  how much power does luci lose per unit of distance travelled?  as we are talking about rant/luci vs structures, what do you base your claims on?  hypocrite much?  if you are bothered by my lack of evidence or basis, why do you stoop to my level, instead of showing me up?  oh yea, because any evidence or basis either of us can show is anecdotal.  

I'm not going to argue that tyrants or lucis are OP for a few reasons. The first being that they are incomparable. Why? They have different functions, different uses, different strengths, and are susceptible to different types of attacks. The luci can actually be used in a variety of different ways because of the different armors available to humans. Between the battlesuit, larmor & helm, battery pack, jetpack, and grenade, there are four+ different "classes" of luci, ranging from a light suicide unit to a heavy tank to an artillery unit. The second being that I have no evidence or opinion either way. I was not arguing against your points so much as I was your argument.


I stoop to your level because I prefer to mock your arguments than show them up. If you honestly believe that I am seriously arguing against you with your own arguments while at the same time calling them stupid or fallacious, you need to take a step back before attacking me and use whatever common sense you have left. Personally, I don't care if you look like an idiot because you can't tell when I'm mocking your arguments - but it saves me typing out a defense if you can figure that out by yourself.

"Red dot sight" has been popularized by the COD series. And for the record, I think an ADS system would be completely and totally pointless/ridiculous/unneeded/etc etc in Tremulous. Aliens move too fast for it to be of any benefit in the classical implementation. Tremulous is an arcade game - not a simulator. Such things serve no purpose in arcade games.

Keep in mind that when we're posting in a thread with outlandish suggestions and I'm attacking your arguments without any serious effort to shoot down your points, my goal is to attack your arguments without any serious effort to shoot down your points. You may call me flippant. I doubt I would disagree. That said, however, my attacking your arguments and not your points is a completely valid tactic. This is because I A) agree with your points or B) don't have enough opinion or evidence to agree or disagree with you. But I still want to argue with you. In shooting down your arguments I accomplish two things. One: Making us both look like asses, and two: Making you more aware of your own shitty arguments so that if we're ever in a thread where we agree and you post first, I won't have to create a brand new argument because yours was "because it's realistic" or some shit like that. :)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 06:29:56 am by Plague Bringer »
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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2011, 09:15:41 am »
Wow, so many arguments.
Teamwork might be better organized if there was a designated person to follow.
Maybe trem should get one of those pre recorded stuff like on L4D2 when you hold 'Z' or 'X' for that command/whatever. We need that /vsay on korx to work if we're gonna use that.

Normal grangers should be able to wall walk if on creep as transitions between a S1 alien base and S2 base is terrible.
Dude, look at 1.1 granger. You might as well be giving humans jetpacks and taking away dragoon.

Extend flamer range and make it narrower.
It ALREADY IS! In fact, i don't like the new flamer because it simply reaches too far. I think the general g_speed just needs to change down a bit, g_speed of 172 is pretty much 'realistic speed' if you look at the human model in slow motion. [set g_speed to 172, timescale to 0.1 or lower if it allows you to]

Give us some news on 1.2 development, every lawn needs to be watered from time to time.
Agreed. Two/three years before, there almost wasn't any news, for the fact there was almost never news. Like once a year?

Number key driven menus.
Possible, you could have another bindset for the menu just like one for aliens and one for humans, and that chat menu stuff from those custom HUD packs.


Remove 1 hit kills.
Sorry...
Aliens in my opinion is de powered in lagged. I think they've done enough to the dragoon to make aliens miserable. Also, i want 1.1's adv marauder back! The zap is way to powerful in a way, because people just use them as a -hit and run- while 1.1's marauder you have to STAY CLOSE or the zap will cut off. Also, i'm wondering, they should fix the 'zap through wall' glitch since the zap's hold is actually a range thing rather than a shooting thing.

Revamp the CD in some way.
Erm...

Tyrant charge seems too effective at attacking base multiple structures at times, reduce charge deterioration when attacking structures. 
Speaking of which, you could also do this in 1.1 although it is harder because the charge bar isn't there. Also, if you let go the charge button and quickly go to swipe and stop moving forward once you touch a structure, you can kill a medistat/turret practically instantly. I even have a demo/video of me doing that on youtube. This applies to both 1.1 and gpp.

Enhance basi swipe range.
Yer, i think they just need the 1.1 basi back.multiple reasons such as the longer swipe range and short grab range, the poison cloud actually poisons, the biggerhealth etc.] The new adv basi can't even survive in a battle with mass drivers and/or luci around. Also, the healing aura actually doesn't seem like it change much to the basilisk's healing speed itself when comparing the healing speed of 2/3 per second in 1.1.

Buff dretch health to take/almost take one more rifle round yet still die from one MD hit.
I think dretches are already overpowered in a way. I noticed that if you go to an australian server in 1.1, they are actually have pretty good rifle skills. I think the repeat rate should just be slowed down to help deal with dretches, it REALLY DOES help. I noticed how much it helped when i had my windows computer, the rifle speed was actually almost as slow as my lasgun, about 7 bullets per second, lasgun being 5.

From what we have seen of the new 1.2 weapon models, let us use the red dots some have (not zoom). they look to awesome.
I tried oticz custom HUDs, but that screwed my 1.1 trem. Anyways, the red dot HUD actually puts some colour into the crosshair, apart from that, it doesn't really do anything else.

balance chomp with pounce.
Play 1.1 and you'll see why it is slowed down. But i agree with you, the standard goon's chomp should at least the speed of the adv goon's, and the adv goon's the speed of a normal 1.1 dragoon. If not, the adv marauder could actually kill faster than a normal dragoon in terms of damage per second. (head bites from marauder do 40, since gpp's headbite is actually 1.5x not 2x, it does 60 although the head damage multiplier doesn't seem to be 1.5 in some cases. If you spam headbite, adv marauder does 180 damage/second on the head, while normal goon does 120.)

Also i would like to add these:

Unlagged: It doesn't work with pounce, zap, goon snipe and luci [againts the ground] for me. It seems to stay on the target/ground for a fair bit before exploding. Once i recorded a demo, i shot on the ground in front of the victim, and it didn't explode, the victim just ran over it, then it exploded. In the demo, it says i shot the barb late. [also the barb actually flies straight in a demo, does not go with gravity]. Also, if i do a similar thing with luci, i shoot a luci ball on the ground while running, i end up running over it, and if there's a dretch behind me, i end up killing it instead of luci jumping.

RC range: I'm not sure how a overmind arm could reach two human standing lengths while a zap can only reach the length of a medistat beside the rc.

BP recovery rate: I know it is to prevent people from instantly building it back, but i think it s a little too slow, especially how the recovery rates don't stack when more buildables die (for example a nade base, killing about 40 bps worth of turrets, it would take 5 minutes to recover them, and speaking of which, KoRx's bp recovery is actually way too fast, it isn't worth it!)

SD: You should at least to be able to build one arm, medi, booster [now that aliens rely on it as a medical recovery spot], and the powersource [om/rc].

human buildable self distruct: This should have a bigger timer, and also because if humans are moving rc, and they mark everything in the old base, it is unlikely they'll finish replacing all of them, and they blow up, making humans wait for the bp to recover.

Alien buildable self distruct: I'd rather the one in KoRx, it is more realistic, a human would struggle for food instead of jumping of a bridge. [for those who do not understand, the alien buildables would struggle for a creep than killing itself.] This is to match the human buildables staying without power.

Normal Granger's view distortion: Not needed, but i liked the fact of exaggerating how slow the granger is by using practically no view distortion. [humans seem to have a little distortion]

/video: I want live recording back! I know it may have been removed due to unstable frame rate in-game and the actual video fast forwarding every now and then when you have a low fps moment, but please, i want it to be able to be used again without having to record a demo first. Also, it shows how you actually play, unlike demos, which seem you're spectating yourself. [see my complaint about demo lag. Also search me on youtube, find one of my LIVE recordings [seen by the shit video quality. Also won't have the 'play' symbol on the right. I know i can remove that symbol, but i purpously left it there. Also try to get the video with a server with unlagged on, ignore the KoRx ones because thats not unlagged.]

RAKninja-Decepticon link=topic=16024.msg227383#msg227383 date=1311466600]
let me ask you this, what can a rant break with one charge?  how big is rantcharge splash?  how much power does luci lose per unit of distance travelled?  as we are talking about rant/luci vs structures, what do you base your claims on?  hypocrite much?  if you are bothered by my lack of evidence or basis, why do you stoop to my level, instead of showing me up?  oh yea, because any evidence or basis either of us can show is anecdotal. 

I'm not going to argue that tyrants or lucis are OP for a few reasons. The first being that they are incomparable. Why? They have different functions, different uses, different strengths, and are susceptible to different types of attacks. The luci can actually be used in a variety of different ways because of the different armors available to humans. Between the battlesuit, larmor & helm, battery pack, jetpack, and grenade, there are four+ different "classes" of luci, ranging from a light suicide unit to a heavy tank to an artillery unit. The second being that I have no evidence or opinion either way. I was not arguing against your points so much as I was your argument.

"Red dot sight" has been popularized by the COD series. And for the record, I think an ADS system would be completely and totally pointless/ridiculous/unneeded/etc etc in Tremulous. Aliens move too fast for it to be of any benefit in the classical implementation. Tremulous is an arcade game - not a simulator. Such things serve no purpose in arcade games.

[/quote]True...
although the last point - we could have a similar thing to the normal guns like what they've done to the KoRx's lasgun - two times scope or a 1.5x scope. But it probably encourage campers and snipers.

Also i think rant should have at least 375 hp because they seemed to lose their method of 'tanking in the human base just to kill one turret' method. You can't even run in a good-designed human base with a rant these days... only adv marauders (if possible in the situation) and adv goons usually do most of the base killing. Actually i got another idea. [oh noes, more text to read!]

Adv Goon's snipe: remove the explosion. 1,1's goon was already good enough. But if you do, do this as well:
Tyrant: If you're not gonna tank it back up like what the title 'tyrant' says, at least give it a bomb capability like 1/2 evo(s) per acid spit or something. It helps cope with the human nades. A reason for this is that if 5 humans have the guts to run into a good alien base and luci spam, the alien base would be doomed. If it was 3 humans, they would do critical damage. If 5 tyrants rush at once into a human base, they would die, killing probably only 5-8 turrets, or more.

To stop camping: Get humans a auto-healing system like in korx, but really slow. Like 1 hp every 5 seconds or something.

Also, add a portable solar panel to give ammo to energy weapons. Nah, joking. Ehe.

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 10:35:45 am »


YOU hop on US1 at peak hours and tell people to rush (preferably while the OM is up and A base isn't under siege). Unless you have someone who isn't a sheeple (I.E. most of the forum-goers), no one will rush. Seriously, try your luck. Please come back and post a demo or ten (for the sake of having a broad sample to judge the effectiveness of this strategy from). Pub players have no reason to listen to you. You have no bubble above your head that says "Commander!" They go about their business by themselves. Most of the time their objective isn't even to kill the enemy base until someone else starts.



Congratulations, you have completely avoided my crushing your horribly fallacious argument by putting it in words more personal to you, by pretending that the subject of the argument matters. No. It is the argument, itself, that matters, and your argument is crap. It should have been obvious that I was mocking your argument and putting it into terms that you'd understand - not seriously contesting the logic of it. You need to restock your reserves of common sense - they are dangerously low.


Go into console, and type...
/unbind all
/bind W +moveforward
Press W. What happens?
This game is absolutely chock full of premade binds, and people change their binds all the time through the menu system. Introducing a bind-menu system along with a notification/readme/tutorial/wiki telling people how to change it will get them using binds to their advantage. If you think that speed and efficiency are not things that constitute "skill", then I think you need to reevaluate your definition of skill. No, having a bind-menu will not automagically create Tremulous wizards. Neither Warlock nor Dracone nor Eye will not spread their e-seed through this bind-menu, BUT, I do believe that this bind menu will help players create positive habits such as evolving on the move and spending less time at the armory. And before you try and shoot that down, no, I do not believe that if you can evolve on the move you are skilled. I do, however, believe that if you are skilled you can evolve on the move. Binds also help with communication. While they are limited in how much they can communicate, the speed at which you can with them is unmatchable without using a VOIP program. Are you trying to tell me that communication, speed, and efficiency, are not measures of skill?



I'm not going to argue that tyrants or lucis are OP for a few reasons. The first being that they are incomparable. Why? They have different functions, different uses, different strengths, and are susceptible to different types of attacks. The luci can actually be used in a variety of different ways because of the different armors available to humans. Between the battlesuit, larmor & helm, battery pack, jetpack, and grenade, there are four+ different "classes" of luci, ranging from a light suicide unit to a heavy tank to an artillery unit. The second being that I have no evidence or opinion either way. I was not arguing against your points so much as I was your argument.


I stoop to your level because I prefer to mock your arguments than show them up. If you honestly believe that I am seriously arguing against you with your own arguments while at the same time calling them stupid or fallacious, you need to take a step back before attacking me and use whatever common sense you have left. Personally, I don't care if you look like an idiot because you can't tell when I'm mocking your arguments - but it saves me typing out a defense if you can figure that out by yourself.

"Red dot sight" has been popularized by the COD series. And for the record, I think an ADS system would be completely and totally pointless/ridiculous/unneeded/etc etc in Tremulous. Aliens move too fast for it to be of any benefit in the classical implementation. Tremulous is an arcade game - not a simulator. Such things serve no purpose in arcade games.

Keep in mind that when we're posting in a thread with outlandish suggestions and I'm attacking your arguments without any serious effort to shoot down your points, my goal is to attack your arguments without any serious effort to shoot down your points. You may call me flippant. I doubt I would disagree. That said, however, my attacking your arguments and not your points is a completely valid tactic. This is because I A) agree with your points or B) don't have enough opinion or evidence to agree or disagree with you. But I still want to argue with you. In shooting down your arguments I accomplish two things. One: Making us both look like asses, and two: Making you more aware of your own shitty arguments so that if we're ever in a thread where we agree and you post first, I won't have to create a brand new argument because yours was "because it's realistic" or some shit like that. :)

most of the people i see on US1 who do not at least lurk on the forums do not speak english.  i can think of a few exceptions, but they also tend to spam binds like "the enemy is weak! attack!".  as for those who are killwhoring without killing the enemy base - not even a little "commander" bubble will make them do so.  i see a fair amount of general cooperation on us1.  enough cooperation for me to form the opinion that any "commander" type mechanics would be wasted effort.

i avoided countering your argument?  how so?  did you happen to skim over "transitioning bases are a big part of the game" or the other references to s2 abilities?  furthermore, is the "fallacious argument" you just so obviously "crushed" not the very same one you gave to me in the 1hko thread?  so, are you not just weakening your position there, or anywhere else you care to use such an argument?  if you do not contest the logic of the argument, how do you object to the argument?  why does the subject not matter.... the subject is the entire point, without it there would be no debate.  also, sarcasm is not often conveyed properly through text.  you should think about that next time you attempt to be witty.

nice dodge about the age and proliferation of the bind system.  anyone who has played a game descended from an iD game online for a month should be aware of binds and how to use them.  yes we have default binds.  yes, people make their own custom binds.  if you want more than that, make your own bind package and distribute it.  why waste developer time with something so menial?  oh yea, laziness.

you seem to have missed what i was saying in your eagerness to bicker with me.  you also seem to have forgotten our discussion of s3 stuff.  taking what you know of my opinion on this matter ("s3 shit is fine") what do you think i was getting at in this thread?  your reasoning reserves seem to be quite low.  time to restock.

ah, CoD.  that explains the brainless simplification.  thanks.

so basically, you and i are typing a novel..... because you didnt like how i responded, even though you mostly agree?  i'm sure to you it seems the height of wit and logic.  i just wish i had some hallucinogenic drugs so that i could view it the same way.
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vcxzet

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 10:52:08 am »
tl:dr but I am sure that it is another one of those quality threads

Qrntz

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2011, 12:41:52 pm »
tl:dr but I am sure that it is another one of those quality threads
tl;d-- oh how did you get ahead of me. :(

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

Plague Bringer

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2011, 04:58:00 pm »
most of the people i see on US1 who do not at least lurk on the forums do not speak english.  i can think of a few exceptions, but they also tend to spam binds like "the enemy is weak! attack!".  as for those who are killwhoring without killing the enemy base - not even a little "commander" bubble will make them do so.  i see a fair amount of general cooperation on us1.  enough cooperation for me to form the opinion that any "commander" type mechanics would be wasted effort.
So when five people spam the same bind it means they are working together? Playing the objective at the same time as your team is not playing the objective with your team. Teamwork involves coherency and cooperation; Things that are rare on US1 unless some of the oldfags are playing.

i avoided countering your argument?  how so?  did you happen to skim over "transitioning bases are a big part of the game" or the other references to s2 abilities?  furthermore, is the "fallacious argument" you just so obviously "crushed" not the very same one you gave to me in the 1hko thread?  so, are you not just weakening your position there, or anywhere else you care to use such an argument?  if you do not contest the logic of the argument, how do you object to the argument?  why does the subject not matter.... the subject is the entire point, without it there would be no debate.  also, sarcasm is not often conveyed properly through text.  you should think about that next time you attempt to be witty.
I'm not going to bother arguing with you (about the argument bit) because you're right (oooh that hurt). That said, an argument is crap if you don't back it up. You'll find that in the 1HKO thread I gave plenty of reasons why it's a very good idea to switch to another class if you're pissed at being MD'd. Here, you gave nothing. Therefore your argument is still crap and I stand by my original point of it being stupid. Swish.

Also, take a look at the differences between human and alien base transitioning. Aliens have to rebuild every egg and acid, as well as place their booster and trappers. You'll find that they usually wait until S2 to relocate the OM, as well. Assuming a human rushes at 1:00, gets a good look at alien base, and then doesn't rush again until AS2 is five minutes along, they will find a completely different base. You may claim that this is an "acceptable difference", you may not. I'm not claiming either - just offering perspective.

Also, you seem to have skimmed over my saying that "while using binds does not mean that you are skilled, being skilled means that you use binds" point. I invite you to go back to read it and respond, but in short, I asked you what factors, in your mind, constitute "skill" in Tremulous, and if binds contributed (at all) to any of these factors


nice dodge about the age and proliferation of the bind system.  anyone who has played a game descended from an iD game online for a month should be aware of binds and how to use them.  yes we have default binds.  yes, people make their own custom binds.  if you want more than that, make your own bind package and distribute it.  why waste developer time with something so menial?  oh yea, laziness.
How does one learn about binds if they don't visit forums and don't care about what engine they're playing on? Binds are (believe it or not) a "tech savvy" thing. As is the console (cmd.exe), for example. Knowing how to use these things without Googling every time you need to is not something that most people are capable to do (isn't that pathetic? :P) Your argument of laziness seems to work against the devs, because your knowledge of proper game design is obviously lacking. The charge bar, for example, is a very menial and unnecessary feature of the HUD. It can be replicated in custom HUDS and it doesn't tell you anything that you can't guesstimate and learn to time properly. It sounds like it was "wasted developer time". Unfortunately, if you had an inkling of sense about you with regards to creating a "user friendly final package", you would understand that the menial things count.

you seem to have missed what i was saying in your eagerness to bicker with me.  you also seem to have forgotten our discussion of s3 stuff.  taking what you know of my opinion on this matter ("s3 shit is fine") what do you think i was getting at in this thread?  your reasoning reserves seem to be quite low.  time to restock.
Quote
I'm not going to argue that tyrants or lucis are OP for a few reasons. The first being that they are incomparable. Why? They have different functions, different uses, different strengths, and are susceptible to different types of attacks. The luci can actually be used in a variety of different ways because of the different armors available to humans. Between the battlesuit, larmor & helm, battery pack, jetpack, and grenade, there are four+ different "classes" of luci, ranging from a light suicide unit to a heavy tank to an artillery unit. The second being that I have no evidence or opinion either way. I was not arguing against your points so much as I was your argument.
Please don't skim my posts. I don't skim yours.


ah, CoD.  that explains the brainless simplification.  thanks.
I think "holographic" sights in CoD would be referred to as "reflect" sights. ACOGs are ACOGs, though.

so basically, you and i are typing a novel..... because you didnt like how i responded, even though you mostly agree?  i'm sure to you it seems the height of wit and logic.  i just wish i had some hallucinogenic drugs so that i could view it the same way.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 05:09:41 pm by Plague Bringer »
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RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2011, 06:03:03 pm »
when they spam the same bind, and then do the action they are spamming about, yes, it does represent a modicum of teamwork.  there is teamwork, and there is teamwork.  you will not get the level of cooperation that you seem to want in just about any public game of any game you chose to name.  even games with a leader mechanic, like the battlefield series, or planetside.  if you are interested in such group cohesion, play clan games.  public games will be public games, and overall a clusterfuck.  so it has always been, so shall it always be.  finally, i am loath to bring this up, but i seem to be slightly more active on us1 than you. (there are 259 players less active than i, but more active than you)  i see plenty of teamwork and planning.  again, not as much as a clan game, but enough to be more than enjoyable to the casual, non-clan, player.

here, i gave plenty.  waiting till s2 to place shit on the walls and ceilings is no different than the humans waiting for s2 for self repairing structures (dc) or the ability to build in previously inaccessible areas, with the jetpack.  so you see?  different, but similar.  both teams must wait to s2 to build in places that are inaccessible to s1 builders.  so, without as many words, i did give reason.  and your original point about evolving is still stupid.  he shoots, he scores.

i did not skim over it.  i was hoping you would have noticed that in the post you were responding to i defined my version of skill to be "aim, knowing the maps, and knowing how to use the tools at your disposal".  binds are one of those tools.  they do contribute somewhat to effectiveness, but custom binds are more a convenience than anything else.  i would not consider anyone more or less skilled by having, or not having, binds.

again, how long have bind commands existed?  how many games make use of them?  ignorance is no excuse.  proper game design?  how about this:  tremulous is not the brainchild of any one person or group.  unless i am seriously misunderstanding something, the entire dev team has changed at least once.  tremulous is a community project.  as such, the skilled contributors should be working on something the less skilled masses can not really do.  creating a custom bind package should be something that is done by someone who can do binds, but not any of the other, more technical or artistic tasks.  you could say that EVERY hud element is a convenience, as there are visual and auditory queues that alert you to the status of things, as you illustrated with the charge bar.

again, i did not skim.  in my last post, the "s3 shit is fine" was in direct response to your luci vs rant comment.  for future reference, when someone says "luci/rant is overpowered" and i say "then you invite the comparison of..."  the point i am making is "s3 shit is fine".  one more time, so that you dont miss it - you say "luci/rant is OP!"  i say "the inverse is true as well", and then we realise we have balance.  different, but comparable.
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Dracone

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2011, 06:41:28 pm »
Enhance basi swipe range.
Basi grab range is longer than swipe, if you can grab then you can swipe.

Nope.

Basi swipe range IS fucked. You can grab humans while outside of swipe range, which is retarded. Imo, they should be equal.
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Cadynum

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2011, 04:26:59 am »
Basi swipe range IS fucked. You can grab humans while outside of swipe range, which is retarded. Imo, they should be equal.

I didn't read any of the thread except this message.
I think slash range should be longer. You have to be close to take your arms around your prey to hold it.
On the other hand slashing can be achieved with only the tip of your sharp basilisk arms.
This is also how it was in 1.1 and I think it was one of the differences that made the basilisk more fun to play there.

Plague Bringer

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2011, 06:07:49 am »
I didn't read any of the thread except this message.
I think slash range should be longer. You have to be close to take your arms around your prey to hold it.
On the other hand slashing can be achieved with only the tip of your sharp basilisk arms.
This is also how it was in 1.1 and I think it was one of the differences that made the basilisk more fun to play there.

Wasn't it changed to make the basi more newbie friendly? I think that a middleground would be best. If slash and grab had the same length - say, a little less than the current grab? It'd make playing basi a lot more intuitive, I think.
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TheLollingManv2

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2011, 03:02:33 pm »
IMO I think retards should stop posting their oponions

A Spork

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2011, 03:43:22 pm »
Basi swipe range IS fucked. You can grab humans while outside of swipe range, which is retarded. Imo, they should be equal.

I didn't read any of the thread except this message.
I think slash range should be longer. You have to be close to take your arms around your prey to hold it.
On the other hand slashing can be achieved with only the tip of your sharp basilisk arms.
This is also how it was in 1.1 and I think it was one of the differences that made the basilisk more fun to play there.
1.1 basi wasn't that fun to play at all in 1.1 unless you got really good, because his one advantage against humans, was his ability to grab them, but it was wicked hard to actually nail a grab right.
I don't have a problem with increasing the slash range to match grab range, but I think reducing grab range would be a mistake.
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RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2011, 04:21:40 pm »
IMO I think retards should stop posting their oponions
then why are you posting?
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c4

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2011, 04:27:07 pm »
ADS (Aim Down Sights) is a feature used in slower paced games. ADS generally features lowered sensitivity and slight zoom because it's used for accuracy. In Tremulous, ADS would be useless because of A) the speed of the aliens B) the crosshair C) the lack of bonus from ADS.

Also, do we really need a thread that's sole purpose is to direct us to other threads? ESPECIALLY about this topic?
'

Yeah, ADS is also only useful for games where accuracy weapons have spread in hip fire mode.  It also seems as if the marine model in trem already has the gun almost at his eyes, so, it would be pretty much useless.  If you really like the ads feature in games, just hold down c and crouch whenever you take a shot...
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TheLollingManv2

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2011, 05:20:47 pm »
IMO I think retards should stop posting their oponions
then why are you posting?

I am not a retard. I have a below average intelligence quotient it's a common mistake dnt wory bout it. But srsly you're a retard with bad ideas and horrible logic go play runescape er help develop this game er somethin
 

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2011, 05:46:43 pm »
I am not a retard. I have a below average intelligence quotient it's a common mistake dnt wory bout it. But srsly you're a retard with bad ideas and horrible logic go play runescape er help develop this game er somethin
 
yea, sure thing, retard.

re·tar·da·tion
[ree-tahr-dey-shuhn]
slowness or limitation in intellectual understanding and awareness, emotional development, academic progress, etc.
retardation
early 15c., "fact or action of making slower in movement or time," from L. retardationem , from retardare  "to make slow, delay, keep back, hinder," from re- , intensive prefix, + tardare  "to slow" (see tardy).
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TheLollingManv2

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2011, 07:09:34 pm »
I can post meaningless definitions that don't really prove a point too.

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–noun
Slang: Disparaging and Offensive . a male homosexual.(see RAKninja-Decepticon)

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2011, 07:19:08 pm »
the difference being, you described yourself with a definition synonymous with retard.  i never have  stated my sexual preferences.  thus, my definition is not meaningless, and yours is.

nice try retard.
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TheLollingManv2

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2011, 07:40:10 pm »
Seeing as how you only posted one definition without even looking up what BAIQ is you cannot say that the two are synonymous. Having a below average IQ doesn't make you a retard. Using your logic the average person in places such as Venezuela, South Africa, and Saudia Arabia are considered retards because their IQ falls into the below average category. So please go play gpp and get better instead of trying to use meaningless dictionary definitions. (that actually aren't correct either)




Plague Bringer

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2011, 10:31:07 pm »
Seeing as how you only posted one definition without even looking up what BAIQ is you cannot say that the two are synonymous. Having a below average IQ doesn't make you a retard. Using your logic the average person in places such as Venezuela, South Africa, and Saudia Arabia are considered retards because their IQ falls into the below average category. So please go play gpp and get better instead of trying to use meaningless dictionary definitions. (that actually aren't correct either)




If you want to get technical, they are. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not RAKninja's vocabulary that is at fault; it is yours. You are associating a benign and factual definition of the word "retard" with the popular and disparaging definition of the word retard. You are letting pop culture get in the way of understanding the true definition of the word. To be fair, the popular use of the word is important, but you cannot argue that "retard" is not an accurate definition of most people. :)
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RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Concepts for problems. Reference Thread.
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2011, 03:07:03 am »
Seeing as how you only posted one definition without even looking up what BAIQ is you cannot say that the two are synonymous. Having a below average IQ doesn't make you a retard. Using your logic the average person in places such as Venezuela, South Africa, and Saudia Arabia are considered retards because their IQ falls into the below average category. So please go play gpp and get better instead of trying to use meaningless dictionary definitions. (that actually aren't correct either)




at the risk of feeding the troll and keeping the thread derailed, you have a skewed definition of IQ.  IQ is a measure of approximately how much you can learn.  those in underdeveloped nations do not suffer from low IQ, they are just generally uneducated.  ignorance is not the same thing as stupidity.  unless it is, of course, willful ignorance.  but i suspect that is not what we are discussing.

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