Who's going to TremZ? (POLL)

[sheridanm962]

Run for president. Now.

Palin '12

Ideas?

[Gorn]

Everything changes in life. [...] this sort of Tremulous still appeals to you, enjoy your empty servers. I still think you'd have more fun on TremZ.

+1 kharnov

[jm82792]

We are Pinky and the Brain -- we are here to take over the world

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

this post contains helpful feedback.

[jm82792]

I'd rather keep people in the dark until things are officially revealed.
All I'm going to say is that the project should produce some good results.
And.... the bsuit is real because I've been working on it.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

I'll say all 3. Unless one or more dies out of course or i end up not liking TremZ. I like gpp but my client is DEAD and 1.1 is F*KED UP  but i will still play. I will just find a way to get around the autogen.cfg's bug* or simply create a new autogen.cfg file myself. (using a new re-installed client, not notepad of course)

*If you want to know its this tiny text. Ignore if it you hate my complaints.

Major cause of this is oticz's hud. It works for everyone else though. Tremfusion won't accept it as each time i play i had to "re-uninstall and re-reinstall" oticz. Then i have to exec the install.cfg from meisseli's hud to play. Then uninstall meis's hud before exiting.

[Qrntz]

create a new autogen.cfg file myself

lol

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

Shut up.
I knew someone would quote that. Thats why i added the brackets later.

[Chomps123]

shut up

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

first christmas estimates release

then new years

now, last day of feb?

smells like 1.2 to me.

[Kasofa]

it's funny how everyone says they want TremZ so much, but their posts then make it sound like they want it to fail.

-K

[kharnov]

first christmas estimates release

then new years

now, last day of feb?

smells like 1.2 to me.

Visit our forums to hear about progress and why we moved the release date forwards.

Also,

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

i did.  i know you lost your lead developer.  i know about the feature bloat.

those fugly aliens are part of the reason i dont particularly care about tremz.

i could list many more reasons, but i dont think this is the place to do so.

[1337-Kynes]

i know you lost your lead developer.  i know about the feature bloat.

Cele is doing a great job managing the project. We are adding new features but the game is far from bloated, and I don't foresee this becoming a problem in the future.

those fugly aliens are part of the reason i dont particularly care about tremz.

These models are still WIP, and constructive criticism is very helpful at this stage. Right now, we are in a position to change models and fix things, so don't just gripe about it, give us something to work off of.

[Celestial_Rage]

i did.  i know you lost your lead developer.  i know about the feature bloat.

those fugly aliens are part of the reason i dont particularly care about tremz.

i could list many more reasons, but i dont think this is the place to do so.

Hop on over to our forums, you can offer constructive feedback there: www.tremz.com/community

[Volt]

i did.  i know you lost your lead developer.  i know about the feature bloat.

those fugly aliens are part of the reason i dont particularly care about tremz.

i could list many more reasons, but i dont think this is the place to do so.

It's people like you who make me hate this game/community that much more. Developers need to be cycled to prevent burning out, I wasn't lost I left on good terms and the development  of TremZ is still on going. I also will not stay silent while you insult Greg's aliens which are not fugly, just because they don't fit the insane design you had in mind for aliens that doesn't mean they are bad. As a former developer and long time tremulous player this is what I've wanted to tell you for a while "Please shut the fuck up if you seriously have nothing good to contribute in terms of feedback." While I was inTremZ I had to censor comments like this for people like you, but seeing as I'm not involved actively with it anymore I can tell you exactly how I feel.


1. You have been playing this game for a long time and you still fail to grasps the basics of gameplay your tremulous stats suck, I know people who have played for 2weeks with better statistics  than you, seriously even messi plays better than you.

2. You have not made a single positive contribution to Tremulous. You are a cancer, leave this community no one likes you.You are hated both in game and on these forums, why the hell do you think they kept banning you on Aussie Assault(1.1),AA usa(1.1) and vote kicking you on US1(gpp)?

I'm going to Incorrectly, quote warlock in not so many words "RAKninja-Decepticon is a dump face ... Telling that u r liked  is like tell that RAKninja-Decepticon mother dont suck cock !!!!"

3. No one values the opinions of someone who has no merits within the community and provides zero constructive feedback, personally anything you could model in a two year span wouldn't even come close to what greg has modeled in a 3month span.



4. You know nothing about the development process or what is being worked on, what you call feature bloat is what they call listening to the community (hell greg actually read your previous feedback in regards to the Dretch and textured it again to improve it).

In conclusion, I'm going to outline this so you can understand.

Tremz is the only continuation of Tremulous with actual support and progress, you are more than welcome to hold onto the old Tremulous but I can assure you that anything that was being worked on for the mythical "1.2 Release of Tremulous" has already been merged into TremZ.

Here is also another thought, the TremZ folk are doing this all for you for the price of $0.00 USD they are putting in hours of every week that they could be using to do other things. Instead they are putting their free time into making a game for a community full of whiny,bitchy, kids(like you) who complain about something other people are doing for them for free. So before you make your next comment please consider just how idiotic you've already made yourself look and how much value other people already hold in your opinions(none). It's already hard doing what they do, the last thing they need is a whiny kid complaining about something he has no right to. They need encouragement more than anything else, no one wants to make something for people who don't respect the time/effort they're putting in.

That being said, go the their forums register and post actual feedback. Because even after all your whining, bitching and complaining they are still willing to listen to you, that is something you've long since lost with me.

Sincerely,
~Volt
Big fucking E-Penis having motherfucker



 The Tremz Development team does not support my comment, the above message was unsolicited and if you wish to continue anything Tremz related please move it to their forums which you can get to by clicking any of this. Thanks!

I ask any moderators to lock this thread and anything else related to TremZ which is a different game and should continue it's discussion else where.

[/dev/humancontroller]

I also will not stay silent while you insult Greg's aliens which are not fugly, just because they don't fit the insane design you had in mind for aliens that doesn't mean they are bad.

but those alien models are really fugly!

As a former developer and long time tremulous player this is what I've wanted to tell you for a while "Please shut the fuck up if you seriously have nothing good to contribute in terms of feedback."

RAK did post links to articles describing animal design theories which support immersion. apparently, almost noone bothered to read the articles (i did).

leave this community no one likes you.

orly

Here is also another thought, the TremZ folk are doing this all for you for the price of $0.00 USD they are putting in hours of every week that they could be using to do other things.

voluntaryness is a bad excuse for producing something of high quality. fortunately, bad work can be decried. unfortunately, not much beyond that can be done against bad voluntary work.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Cele is doing a great job managing the project. We are adding new features but the game is far from bloated, and I don't foresee this becoming a problem in the future.

i am going off of karnov's announcement of the latest delay, where he blamed "feature bloat" as the primary reason of the delay.

Hop on over to our forums, you can offer constructive feedback there: www.tremz.com/community

i offered constructive feedback before you had forums.  i was told "if you dont like it, STFU or do better".  as this attitude is prevalent among your devs, i have no desire to join another forum to get the same response.

It's people like you who make me hate this game/community that much more. Developers need to be cycled to prevent burning out, I wasn't lost I left on good terms and the development  of TremZ is still on going. I also will not stay silent while you insult Greg's aliens which are not fugly, just because they don't fit the insane design you had in mind for aliens that doesn't mean they are bad. As a former developer and long time tremulous player this is what I've wanted to tell you for a while "Please shut the fuck up if you seriously have nothing good to contribute in terms of feedback." While I was inTremZ I had to censor comments like this for people like you, but seeing as I'm not involved actively with it anymore I can tell you exactly how I feel.

so you support feedback, so long as it is praise and not criticism.  i gave you articles on creature development, as D/HC pointed out.  rather than read them, you persist in calling my criticisms "insane".  furthermore, you censored comments that were critical rather than praise.  this shows me you have no interest in improvement.  i am glad you left, you truly have no business leading any project.

1. You have been playing this game for a long time and you still fail to grasps the basics of gameplay your tremulous stats suck, I know people who have played for 2weeks with better statistics  than you, seriously even messi plays better than you.

i had no idea gameplay performance had bearing on art criticism.

2. You have not made a single positive contribution to Tremulous. You are a cancer, leave this community no one likes you.You are hated both in game and on these forums, why the hell do you think they kept banning you on Aussie Assault(1.1),AA usa(1.1) and vote kicking you on US1(gpp)?

you've got the wrong guy, someone must have been using my name.  i have never played aussie assault, AA, and have had perhaps 3 votekicks called on me, none successfull.  i have been banned twice...  for TKing an aliased admin who TKed me for "blocking".  months apart, BTW.
furthermore, i was unaware that making some sort of contribution had any bearing on art criticism.

I'm going to Incorrectly, quote warlock in not so many words "RAKninja-Decepticon is a dump face ... Telling that u r liked  is like tell that RAKninja-Decepticon mother dont suck cock !!!!"

my mother does suck cock.  my father's.  sure i am not the most popular, but i am certainly not the most hated.

3. No one values the opinions of someone who has no merits within the community and provides zero constructive feedback, personally anything you could model in a two year span wouldn't even come close to what greg has modeled in a 3month span.

see above.  "do better or stfu" is not a valid response to valid criticisms.  i hope we are not schoolchildren here.

4. You know nothing about the development process or what is being worked on, what you call feature bloat is what they call listening to the community (hell greg actually read your previous feedback in regards to the Dretch and textured it again to improve it).

wrong again.  that was someone else who complained about the dretch texture.  i did say something about it, but it was someone else complaining about the lipstick.  again, the feature bloat comment is direct from karnov's announcement post on the tremz forums.  it seems you dont even know about the tremz dev process.  or you've had your community manager lie to the community.

In conclusion, I'm going to outline this so you can understand.

Tremz is the only continuation of Tremulous with actual support and progress, you are more than welcome to hold onto the old Tremulous but I can assure you that anything that was being worked on for the mythical "1.2 Release of Tremulous" has already been merged into TremZ.

Here is also another thought, the TremZ folk are doing this all for you for the price of $0.00 USD they are putting in hours of every week that they could be using to do other things. Instead they are putting their free time into making a game for a community full of whiny,bitchy, kids(like you) who complain about something other people are doing for them for free. So before you make your next comment please consider just how idiotic you've already made yourself look and how much value other people already hold in your opinions(none). It's already hard doing what they do, the last thing they need is a whiny kid complaining about something he has no right to. They need encouragement more than anything else, no one wants to make something for people who don't respect the time/effort they're putting in.

That being said, go the their forums register and post actual feedback. Because even after all your whining, bitching and complaining they are still willing to listen to you, that is something you've long since lost with me.

Sincerely,
~Volt
Big fucking E-Penis having motherfucker

whatever drugs you are on, send me some.  it must be nice living in such a colorful fantasy land.

[Pazuzu]

Volt, now might be a good time to reflect on why you were "censoring" comments like that. Or, maybe, before you hit "post". What you're witnessing is what we call a "shitstorm". It's exactly what it sounds like.

[Volt]

i offered constructive feedback before you had forums.  i was told "if you dont like it, STFU or do better".  as this attitude is prevalent among your devs, i have no desire to join another forum to get the same response.

If you were actually serious about giving advice, you'd listen to what volt said,

We're no longer going to be doing anything on these forums.  If you're interested, hit up our public development channel at #tremz on freenode.

perhaps when tremz has a website and forum i will be interested in seeking out more of it's development to comment.  until then, i have better things to do than wait around in a chat room for the odd chance the people who should hear such things to log on[/b].

No you were told to stfu by pretty much everyone who posted after you, let me refresh your memory.

I see a lot of unfinished models that can not be used as-is.

the thing that stands out to me is how ugly the aliens are.  not the modelwork, that is good, but the basic concepts are aweful.  especially the basi and rant.

then again, what i've seen of the 1.2 alien models are ugly as well.  again, good modeling, but the concepts are "all wrong" and look to be done with no knowledge of anatomy. for example, mara claw should not have tendon and muscle anchors.  rand and goon arms are done wrong as well.  not the claw, but the arm.  assuming the aliens have exoskeletons, the way that the arms of those two classes are made of american football-shaped segments does not work at all.  for reference see -

http://www.kingsnake.com/westindian/proarnahilaris2.JPG
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2505/3989528754_7c9fa33039.jpg
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2005/images/fiddler_crab.jpg

and technically, the goon should have larger rear legs, considering its jumping ability.

yea yea, i know realism in video games compounded with the fact that this post is on topic by implication only, i just needed to get that off my chest.

Does anyone have knowledge of alien anatomy? Please point them out to me.

Stop right there! Friend basi is not only my friend, but has a great design END OF SENTENCE.

...unless you really did mean 'aweful'.

I think you're just afraid of change. I personally like a majority of the concepts, generally it seems as though tremz is going to be dark and edgy. None of this low quality cartoon bullshit. A good analogy is Chris Nolan's Batman vs. all the other ones. Me likey.

primarily because of posts like yours.

labeling me mas mentally defective for my opinion speaks very ill of you, i think.

as i was saying, real life anatomical references are useful for fictional creature design

so think on that a little bit before insulting me for criticizing the artwork.

labeling me mas mentally defective for my opinion speaks very ill of you, i think.

I'm not sure volt's alone in feeling there may be something not quite right about you...

as i said, thinking ill of me for opinion speaks more on you than it does me.

It's not so much the opinion itself as the way it's delivered, over and over, without it ever having been asked for...

I actually read your links to designing creatures when you linked them and to be honest I think it's stupid. That artist blends together the dumbest animals I have ever seen and calls it something "amazing". Redsky the concept artist who made the alien concepts drew them not basing them on anything earthly, because quite frankly they're aliens and are from space. None of us are experts on alien anatomy or creature design, the developers of tremz can only take what you suggested to only some extent. They will always try to follow the original concept art outlined by redsky and optimus, because quite frankly those concept arts (Might not be realistic because come on!, these are fictional aliens from god knows where.) are the best looking tremulous aliens I've ever seen (personal opinion not a fact.) and to have you suggest that you know the anatomy for aliens in a fictional universe that the development team is still constructing is really insane. What you are arguing about is "I think aliens should look like this because I'm knowledgeable about how tremulous aliens work and function anatomy and you guys should base designs on real animals instead of fictional creatures."

Have you ever even assumed that the animation design for these fictional aliens might be completely different and follow a different path than the old aliens]? (meaning assuming that the goon pounces a certain way before actually seeing animation is again very stupid on your part.) You keep assuming things and providing useless information.There has been plenty of feedback "some we liked, some we didn't" but it was good feedback, that the TremZ folks replied to and actually listened to. But when someone as insane as you throws out claims like you have, I can only tell you how flabbergasted we are(tremulous players/forum users) as what exactly is going on within your head.

so you support feedback, so long as it is praise and not criticism.  i gave you articles on creature development, as D/HC pointed out.  rather than read them, you persist in calling my criticisms "insane".  furthermore, you censored comments that were critical rather than praise.  this shows me you have no interest in improvement.  i am glad you left, you truly have no business leading any project. Hey you are welcome to have your opinion, but I feel like that it is just that an opinion, when you present facts to support this opinion of yours I might actually take you seriously.

No I support feedback that is from someone who is legally sane and not someone who believes that the aliens from their fictional world they constructed within their head are what the developers should follow. I was not the only one who called your post insane, go back to the original post and read the feedback you received. Rarely does anything you post receive praise, this isn't because of lack of effort but because you truly are 100% fuckedup in the head.  

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

volt, pull the stick out of your ass.

you try to call me out, so i will answer in sequence.

1 - forums - back then i was somewhat interested, but as time has gone on, and your fellow tremz devs have shown the same attitude you have to negative criticism, i have lost interest in joining the tremz forums.especially considering how you "censored" comments.

2 - creature design - the idea is that you make things look "real" by blending features of real animals, based on a fictional ecology.  rather than looking at WHAT they were building in those articles, you should have been paying attention to HOW and WHY.  if you think those concepts are stupid, you now know why you do this for free, as a hobby, rather than professionally, for money.  like that artist from the article.... who is also a university of art and design professor, and worked in creature design professionally. 



i say the models look bad, and are unbelievable.  not because i know how tremulous aliens work, but because they do not appear to be capable of doing what they are supposed to do.  kind of like watching a 90 pound weakling deadlift 500 pounds.

to your bringing up my example of goon pounce, reread, i am certain i covered both ways the goon could possibly pounce, and how neither is believable.  that goon does not look pounce capable.  period.  i would believe that a cow could pounce foward at 1000 ups before i'd believe that goon could.  as for your bit about feedback...  you really do not understand what constructive criticism is, do you?  "i like this, i dont like this" is not constructive criticism.  i told you what i did not like, why i didnt like it, and how to fix it. 

on a final note, you must live a very sheltered life to think i am insane.  OMG RAK WANTZ ALENZ DEZIGND RELIZTIK.  HE BE BATSHIT IZANE.

[Volt]

on a final note, you must live a very sheltered life to think i am insane.  OMG RAK WANTZ ALENZ DEZIGND RELIZTIK.  HE BE BATSHIT IZANE.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

no volt, that's not how you use that.

[CorSair]

About alien models, well, if you don't like it, it doesn't just mean that other 99,98% hate/dislike the models currently on development. And you can point the problems, but when they are locked, or done, whining is out of question. Simple.

Meh, gotta quote Volt.

Redsky the concept artist who made the alien concepts drew them not basing them on anything earthly, because quite frankly they're aliens and are from space. None of us are experts on alien anatomy or creature design, the developers of tremz can only take what you suggested to only some extent. They will always try to follow the original concept art outlined by redsky and optimus, because quite frankly those concept arts (Might not be realistic because come on!, these are fictional aliens from god knows where.) are the best looking tremulous aliens I've ever seen (personal opinion not a fact.) and to have you suggest that you know the anatomy for aliens in a fictional universe that the development team is still constructing is really insane. What you are arguing about is "I think aliens should look like this because I'm knowledgeable about how tremulous aliens work and function anatomy and you guys should base designs on real animals instead of fictional creatures."

And I agree 100 percent with this.
Sci-Fi is fucking Sci-fi. If you complain about how they should reflect today's science, well, in 2500, everything is possible... 



You should really know when to be silent or back up. That's why I haven't (until now) posted when you said:

i did.  i know you lost your lead developer.  i know about the feature bloat.

those fugly aliens are part of the reason i dont particularly care about tremz.

i could list many more reasons, but i dont think this is the place to do so.

And the last parts of sentence is excellent:
"but i dont think this is the place to do so."
Exactly. Go start your shitstorm elsewhere.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

it's funny how everyone says they want TremZ so much, but their posts then make it sound like they want it to fail.
-K

True.
Im not really interested into tremz, but i want to try it at least.
________________

Comments on aliens:

Basi doesn't look that unique anymore in some ways... looks like a mini rant
Rant doesn't have the massive 'backhead' plate, instead the goon has the long plate.
That marauder looks like some headlice  

Also, don't you dare change the granger. Animation mods are acceptable as its animations are currently restricted to [jump, walk/run, attack/decon/build which looks like a 'wank']

[/dev/humancontroller]

Redsky the concept artist who made the alien concepts drew them not basing them on anything earthly, because quite frankly they're aliens and are from space. None of us are experts on alien anatomy or creature design, the developers of tremz can only take what you suggested to only some extent. They will always try to follow the original concept art outlined by redsky and optimus, because quite frankly those concept arts (Might not be realistic because come on!, these are fictional aliens from god knows where.) are the best looking tremulous aliens I've ever seen (personal opinion not a fact.) and to have you suggest that you know the anatomy for aliens in a fictional universe that the development team is still constructing is really insane. What you are arguing about is "I think aliens should look like this because I'm knowledgeable about how tremulous aliens work and function anatomy and you guys should base designs on real animals instead of fictional creatures."

And I agree 100 percent with this.
Sci-Fi is fucking Sci-fi. If you complain about how they should reflect today's science, well, in 2500, everything is possible... 

both of you are wrong. you're misunderstanding the point of designing with reasoning. the problem isn't that randomly thought out aliens are not earthly. the problem is that their design is hardly explainable intelligently.

basing the game on a story, where a war between the humans and an unknown alien race take place in the future, lends us the freedom to define the properties of human gear and alien classes in fantastic ways. however, there are limits. for example:

• let's say that there is a very small, pistol-like primary weapon, which lobs small, but very powerful explosive bullets, but the weapon's ammo is limited to 4 bullets and no supplementary clips. even disregarding balance, this design is retarded, because: the ability to restock on ammo without restriction implies that the ammo is cheap and can be quickly loaded into the weapon (as with any other ammo-based weapon in the game), so the rationale behind allowing a human soldier to carry at most 4 ammo is questionable; if i were "in the game", i'd carry loads of additional ammo, and even replace the human army's initial gear to be rifle+explosive_bullet_lobber or even rifle+explosive_bullet_lobber+blaster (meaning that the explosive_bullet_lobber, which is physically small, would be a secondary weapon).
• let's say that the dragoon consists of 1000kg flabby fat, but can still pounce as in the current game logic. this design is retarded, because: noticing the fact that the muscles of the dragoon can easily lift 1000kg, why don't other aliens have such muscles, allowing them to move much faster (notably the tyrant, which is less fatter in this example)? if the history of the aliens has geared the genetic evolution of dragoons to such strength, then it should have done so for other alien similarly. and i am even forgetting that a turret wouldn't survive a collision with 1000kg of fatness.

for the said stupid alien anatomy example, the following explanations exist, both of which are rather amateur:

• the battles are taking place in a virtual reality simulator (much like in Unreal; actually, this explanation works for basically anything), or
• some other, high-tech race invented the aliens seen in the game, for the sole purposes of trolling humans, but with the idea of intentionally awkward anatomy, to give both sides an equal chance to win.

formally, the design must be such that there must exist a level of underlying technology/anatomy, for which the design cannot be shaken by the following questions:

• in the hands of a smart user, is there a trivial way to greatly improve the properties or capabilities of items of this technology?
• what are the chances of having these deficiencies in the anatomy, coupled with these other (better) properties in other parts of the anatomy?

the human gear or the alien classes in the design may very well be primitive, and that is fine, but only as long as the capabilities of the gear and classes were pushed to the limits within level of technology/anatomy stated in the background story of the game. although this means that the background may be tailored to support the current design, things may not be so easy:

• there may not be a reasonable background story for such a design (this is the whole point), but
• there is a goal to create a very good background story (and for better stories, better designs may be required).

[Qrntz]

[Cadynum]

If tremz is better than gpp I'll play tremz.
If it is not I'll continue playing nothing.

Is there much more to discuss?*

*(rhetorical question)

[CorSair]

(Wall of text, which I read.)

Do you even know, what sci-fi actually means, do you? Wikipedia (how mundane) has good description what Sci-fi (or proper, Science Fiction) is.

Your counter-arguments are invalid.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Sigh. Tremz alien designs completely break any chance of immersion. The modeler needs to look up how muscles work. Sure, their joints could be powered by magic, but I think they should stick to muscles. Btw, can that turret actually aim upwards? There's a lot of comments & criticism I could give on those models, but considering the responses given so far by Tremz devs, I won't bother. (At least the pulse rifle looks awesome)