Author Topic: Who isn't tired of campers?  (Read 21763 times)

Scorpius

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Who isn't tired of campers?
« on: December 28, 2011, 03:01:56 pm »
I am doing this because unfortunately camping leads to harrasment and deconning (don't forget subsequent weekly bans) and I'm tired of angryness. Games are for having fun, not to harass and hurt each other. Hope it helps.

Well, I admit, I'm doing this guide mainly to help aliens defeating those annoying campers that clump in their own base, but it maybe warns human players about the dangers of camping, even if it's well done. So I'll start.

CAMPERS: TYPES AND HOW TO DEFEAT.

Camping, camping, camping... not all the types of camping are the same and not all are even noticed. Camping a bit may make the game a bit more funny (empty bases are ridiculously weak against 3-4 opponents). Often humans are the camping team, but I've also seen a few camper alien teams (I think it's not necessary to cover that). There is a *sane* camping, but only for the humans. Alien team is better at taking ground than at holding it, and humans aren't very prompt to control waste areas as aliens do, as in most games, 80 or more percent of the map is controlled by two killwhoring dragoons, so humans think they are forced to camp. I consider it a defeatist tactique, when having in mind human groups are a lot stronger than an human alone, when alien groups are often only a bit stronger than aliens alone, particularly big aliens.
Better explained (taking 1 human as reference unit): 1 dragoon = 3 (eg), 2 dragoons = 4, 3 dragoons = 5, so  higher number of dragoons reduces so much the power of the individual dragoon. Supposing those numbers are real (of course individual skill affects it), 1 dragoon alone "has" a value of 3, but a dragoon in a group of 3 only has a value of 1.4. The reason for this is that big aliens tend to bleed and block each other. In counterpart, humans aren't so prompt to disturb each other, so 2 humans = 2 (not a joke), 3 humans = 4, 4 humans = 5.5 and 10 humans = 18. Watch the increase. A human alone worths 1, but if 4 humans go together each individual has a value of nearly 1.4, meaning it is nearly equivalent to a dragoon in a group of 3. This doesn't mean that teamwork is bad for aliens, only going together is. A group of 3 dragoons, if well distributed, may easily neutralise 15 humans, so there the value of each is increased to 5. (this numbers are approximative, so this is not a dogma)

Notice that at S1, humans are slightly weaker than aliens, at S2 both teams are almost the same and at S3 humans are a little bit stronger than aliens.

But this is not only a math question, some strategies should be forged to counter the camper wall. I mainly distinguish the following ways of camping.

- EARLY BASE TRENCHING
Most probably the silliest move the human team can do. It often begins with a very early human rush. If dretches start holding the attacks without having too many losses, humans may get discouraged, make their base a poorly built turret farm and leaving all the map for aliens. Humans will have a little piece of ground and, as aliens are surrounding them, they can't backup. It gets progressively easier to defeat humans as there are more players on the server, and over time (NOT STAGE!!). 1 alien can't win against 1 retcamper. 20 aliens will smash 20 retcampers. A good basi has to fend off any escaping human, as they may try to flee with a ckit. Dispatch turrets first, and as alien's wallet will be full, don't worry about dying. Dragoons are great against defenses and camping humans, while I prefer marauders to finish off the remainders of the base once dragoons start spawncamping the remaining nodes. Kill those and campers have been powned.

- LATE BASE TRENCHING
Main motto of this guide. Most deconners start deconning when this happens, harassment and bans are too common.
This move is very silly too. Often it begins with a mid-game human rush. Since humans will most probably be S2 or S3, they don't get discouraged as fast. They will keep rushing, but all their tries will be futile, as long as aliens control the 75 or more percent of the map. Long waits favor aliens. Humans are impatient. Not like aliens. You can wait hidden somewhere then attack humans by their back. Later, humans may discourage, and start camping in game end (eg in minute 21). Here enters the same factor than in all camps, but for a different reason: both teams are S3 Here also enters one of my favourite and most smashing tactics: the barb hail. If aliens have enough players, 8 or more of them should evolve to adv.dragoon. Send them in the human base in a way they enter simultaneously by all entrances. As humans are camping, there is no danger of getting hurt/killed in your path to human base. Spam barbs against armory, medi, and if some barbs haven't been spent yet, dispatch turrets. LEAVE RC STILL, since it can be fastly rebuilt (remember 1.2 BP queue?) and nodes, because the other aliens will end the work. Those should have evolved to (adv)maras but 2 brutes. If snipers have dead, leave them still. They weakened human base so much that it will be impossible for them to recover under mara pressure. Brutes should take out any armored human, while maras head for RC (now yes, to prevent human re-arming). Leave still any reactor rebuilding trial if any. It will be useless, since aliens will have won before it completes. Kill nodes and you are ready to play next map. A basi should cut any escaping human's trajectory again, priorly if he wears a ckit.

- TURRET REPLACEMENT CAMPING
This, unlike the previous camper profiles, may either be a very smart move or a complete dumbness. There is no middle ground. Turrets are replaced by camping humans (most commonly chainsuits) by the desire of freeing BP from turret. It's a good move (I've done it some times of the rare ones I play human) as long as build points are spent in armories and telenodes, and a completely dumbness when spent in teslas (however I'd put 1 tesla in front of reactor, you will see why), since those are weaker than turrets (in SD). The tactique I recommend here is the barb hail again, this time against reactor, as it can't be rebuilt in SD. If SD hasn't begun yet, annoy humans with small zap rushlets until it begins and then hail the reactor. A tesla in front of reactor will be a problem (nothing unsalvable), because tesla hitbox is so tall that will most times "meatshield" the reactor. Remember that buildings are solid even a few seconds after they have been destroyed (not much, but enough to let humans kill the snipers). Once RC has been destroyed, camp on your own base, wait the great bang of unpowered human structures and kill any remaining humans. If you can't barb hail the reactor, I'd recommend a zap rush. Chainguns are not very accurate at long range, so maras will dodge "some" shots, unlike brutes that eat them all. Center on telenodes, then armory (CLAW THE ARMORY, NO MATTER IF YOU DIE, IT'S FASTER!!!). Enjoy next game.

- DEFENSE REINFORCEMENT CAMPING
This is a smart move. It's not strictly a camping, and most times isn't even noticed, but it makes hard for aliens to rush anything. The games it gives are often very enjoyable, and very long, but if aliens can handle it properly, they will end up winning. It's often started by good human teams when aliens start getting tempted to rush. It consists on 2 or 3 hummies camping with MD/Lasgun (maybe prifle). This doesn't mean humans aren't going to fight. Most times the rest of the human team is constantly threatening your base. The reason I mention it is because it may degenerate into a late base trenching, ruining all the game and "forcing" people to disconnect or get bored/angry/rage. Treat it as an undefended base, but be very careful not to get killed (may motive a massive human rush). Lightning zap will work excellently here, as well as psychologic warfare.

- RANDOM (terror) CAMPING
Silly move. I call it "random" because it has no convincent reason to perform like this. This is the most defeatist thing I can imagine in Tremulous. Most times it is done because aliens got S2 (albeit humans are often about to). I'd rush, or try to kill a basilisk/marauder to get S2 weapons, rather than camping for the same purpose. Treat the bases as the early base trenching ones, having in mind the ones here tend to be better built. Psycologic warfare will work here excellently, as humans are usually terrified rather than discouraged. Increase their fear, and it often will become panic, and then they will greatly contribute to destroy their base. Panicky humans tend to defend with inappropiate weapons, such as flamer (if humans got S2 and are still terrified), painsaw or shotgun. Zap rush, because lightnings flash human eyes and are a lot more frightening than a barb that sometimes isn't even seen. If you fail at rush, prepare to hold your base, as terrified humans will take vengeance at all costs. Try not to get killed, because humans may stop panic and organise a good defense.

OhNo! The rush has failed! What can we do?
It depends of three things: the type of camping, the state of human base and how full is your mates' frag wallet.
If it was a trenchier camping, keep rushing until you have less than 3 frags. Humans won't probably try to rush in brief, but still be prepared for an eventual rush. If it is SD, keep a small detachment to hold the OM and eggs, but keep rushing. If RC is down in SD, just wait for boom.
But if it was a defense reinforcement or random, only keep rushing if the human base was about to be cleaned or you have an impressive wallet. Be always prepared for human vengeance tries, and hold your base by early repulsing any rush. Keep a marauder prowling around to warn mates about forming rushes and any strange human move.

In the next post (will be edited soon) I'll show some bases that are not for camping or directly human horrible spots anyway (and are used sometimes of course)
See ya soon! (aliens, remember humans may get smarter by reading this, so keep varying slightly this strategies)

GLOSSARY(tactiques I developed/improved)
Barb hail: Smashing tactic, most powerful during SD or against high BP/HP buildings. Cannot be performed until aliens get advaced dragoons. Consists on >8 dragoons shooting their barbs from everywhere at the same time and target. Nothing can resist that power (more than 2000 damage in less than 4 seconds).
Lightning zap: Spectacular tactic. Cannot be performed until AS2. Variant of the classical zap rush, but unlike it, >6 maras fly around very quickly in different directions and trajectories, zapping once and healing. Smashing against clustered bases, although it's main finality is to confuse both campers and turrets.
Psycological warfare: Chosing tactics for retinal effect/short term memory rather than power. E.g, succesive light rushes, fake unorganisation, single-class palying then rushing with another, playing with opponent's fear...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 02:09:14 pm by Scorpius »
14h 03m 49s -60º 22'23'':
Ok, let's talk about it. WHy would you lose a game? Would you put your team to sacrifice, only to mass frags?
Let's do a cry. FOR THE TEAM STRATEGY!

We are one. We all belong to the Overmind.
Protip:alien's eggs aren't tasty. In case of hunger, DO NOT make an omelette with them. Just rap'em up.

Undeference

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 03:36:12 am »
Camping is fun.
Need help? Ask intelligently. Please share solutions you find.

Thats what we need, helpful players, not more powerful admins.

Qrntz

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 04:17:01 am »
*happy camper* is *delightful*! let us *play*!

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 03:23:14 am »
*happy camper* is *delightful*! let us *play*!
*campers* always make me so *frumple*

then i am *squeezing the juice* and i feel better.
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Scorpius

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 11:22:07 am »
I actually edited it!!! It didn't save properly!!! Redoing soon. Reason: submitted accidentally when I just began.

So sorry although. This midday I'll try to do it again from zero.

EDIT: Currently done. Enjoy!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 02:10:35 pm by Scorpius »
14h 03m 49s -60º 22'23'':
Ok, let's talk about it. WHy would you lose a game? Would you put your team to sacrifice, only to mass frags?
Let's do a cry. FOR THE TEAM STRATEGY!

We are one. We all belong to the Overmind.
Protip:alien's eggs aren't tasty. In case of hunger, DO NOT make an omelette with them. Just rap'em up.

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 09:19:49 pm »
have you played this game before?

not only are your numbers arbitrary, but their wording makes it quite difficult to puzzle out your meaning.

furthermore, you only seem to cover basecamping, which is really not that big a deal.  as you astutely observed, adv maras and adv goons wreck that strategy. 

HALL camping is what burns me up, usually at s1.  this is where the human range advantage combined with the inscrutable desire of most mappers to put shit all over the walls of hallways work in tandem to produce a gravy train of credits for smart s1 humans.

in conclusion, you posted a big wall of lolwhut.
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Scorpius

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 02:58:28 pm »
@RAKninja-Decepticon
have you played this game before?

not only are your numbers arbitrary, but their wording makes it quite difficult to puzzle out your meaning.

furthermore, you only seem to cover basecamping, which is really not that big a deal.  as you astutely observed, adv maras and adv goons wreck that strategy. 

HALL camping is what burns me up, usually at s1.  this is where the human range advantage combined with the inscrutable desire of most mappers to put shit all over the walls of hallways work in tandem to produce a gravy train of credits for smart s1 humans.

in conclusion, you posted a big wall of lolwhut.
Sorry, but I did only cover official maps. Note that if aliens take ground as they should, it is very difficult for humans to hallway camp. And as I said, I am playing this game since 2009, so yes. At least for me these stratagems have worked pretty well, with 75%+ effectivity. This gave me the push which made me posting this. I don't like being ridiculous, so I avoided to.

About numbers, it was the best way I found to shortly explain. Maybe I should reconsider, as not all players seem to have enough extrapolation capacity to clearly understand this.

And yes, I've been playing this since 2009, although it was 2 different computers, so maybe not in stats. (do you know what qkey is? Q-K-E-Y. Didn't know then... maybe you neither)

Buy a good dictionary. It helps (except when the user is a complete pinhead)

You like flame wars.

PD: Are you a great killwhore? This could explain why did you say what you have said.
14h 03m 49s -60º 22'23'':
Ok, let's talk about it. WHy would you lose a game? Would you put your team to sacrifice, only to mass frags?
Let's do a cry. FOR THE TEAM STRATEGY!

We are one. We all belong to the Overmind.
Protip:alien's eggs aren't tasty. In case of hunger, DO NOT make an omelette with them. Just rap'em up.

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2011, 05:57:54 pm »
i suspect english is not your first language.  nothing wrong with it, but yours it pretty bad.  it makes you quite hard to understand, especially when you get long winded and start throwing around mathematical terms.

maps:  even official maps fall into the "shit all over the walls" thing i was talking about.  nexus and tremor, for example. and how about the long hall on niveus?  how about the halls on arachnid?

i have also been playing at least since '09.  i did play 1.1 a bit back in 06, but not really enough to be recognized.

what you call flame wars, i call well spirited debate.

dont take my little pokes at you so seriously.

on a side note, spelling things out as if you are talking in text is a really douchey thing.  yes i know what a qkey is, mine own has changed a bit more than yours.  as an aside to the side note:  why is it the frenchmen ive known in real life have all been nice people, but all the ones i see online live up to the stereotype of being pricks?

and no, a quick look at my stats shows i am not anything close to a killwhore.  these days i usually build or defend the base, or eat bullets for folks better than i.
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MothMan

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2011, 07:45:02 pm »
as an aside to the side note:  why is it the frenchmen ive known in real life have all been nice people, but all the ones i see online live up to the stereotype of being pricks?

I'm proud to tell you I'm an exception ! I guess...
I'm gonna procrastinate tomorrow...

Scorpius

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2012, 01:06:56 pm »
i suspect english is not your first language.  nothing wrong with it, but yours it pretty bad.  it makes you quite hard to understand, especially when you get long winded and start throwing around mathematical terms.

Well guessed. About bad english... maybe, you may imagine what an "ezpaÑol"(spaniard) english teacher is like. Now that I'm there, I shoudld say I'm catalan rather than spanish...
14h 03m 49s -60º 22'23'':
Ok, let's talk about it. WHy would you lose a game? Would you put your team to sacrifice, only to mass frags?
Let's do a cry. FOR THE TEAM STRATEGY!

We are one. We all belong to the Overmind.
Protip:alien's eggs aren't tasty. In case of hunger, DO NOT make an omelette with them. Just rap'em up.

your face

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 05:37:44 pm »
rakninja deception you are one to talk about english
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

Tremulant

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 07:33:12 pm »
rakninja deception you are one to talk about english
not to mention being a prick.
my knees by my face and my ass is being hammered

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 05:33:00 am »
rakninja deception you are one to talk about english
not to mention being a prick.
you get out what you put in.
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Qrntz

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 12:47:39 pm »
rakninja deception you are one to talk about english
not to mention being a prick.
you get out what you put in.
I didn't put a prick in you and I hope I will never have to.
Unless you deliberately wish that, what I wouldn't call normal behavior.

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 04:22:13 pm »
I didn't put a prick in you and I hope I will never have to.
Unless you deliberately wish that, what I wouldn't call normal behavior.
bad wording on my part.  the trem community is often a pissing contest.  should be no surprise that one more has joined the race.
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your face

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2012, 05:31:25 am »
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

Pazuzu

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2012, 06:02:33 am »
Consists on >8 dragoons shooting their barbs from everywhere at the same time and target.
lol

Also, this

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

Scorpius

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2012, 08:42:46 pm »
Consists on >8 dragoons shooting their barbs from everywhere at the same time and target.
lol

Angry myoppic 8+ dragoons shooting etc etc etc.?

bad wording on my part.

story of your life.
ROFLMAOPMPASTC (rolling on floor laughing my ass off, pissing my pants and scaring the cat). Really, this can't be for real. If not
14h 03m 49s -60º 22'23'':
Ok, let's talk about it. WHy would you lose a game? Would you put your team to sacrifice, only to mass frags?
Let's do a cry. FOR THE TEAM STRATEGY!

We are one. We all belong to the Overmind.
Protip:alien's eggs aren't tasty. In case of hunger, DO NOT make an omelette with them. Just rap'em up.

Pazuzu

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2012, 01:11:10 am »
Angry myoppic 8+ dragoons shooting etc etc etc.?
Your strategy calls for 8 angry, myopic goons?

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

Scorpius

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 04:57:09 pm »
Angry myoppic 8+ dragoons shooting etc etc etc.?
Your strategy calls for 8 angry, myopic goons?

angry, but not myoppic :D. Myopic goons are useless at sniping :D

PD: If my posts are funny, you'll laugh then, as soon is coming second part of this guide
14h 03m 49s -60º 22'23'':
Ok, let's talk about it. WHy would you lose a game? Would you put your team to sacrifice, only to mass frags?
Let's do a cry. FOR THE TEAM STRATEGY!

We are one. We all belong to the Overmind.
Protip:alien's eggs aren't tasty. In case of hunger, DO NOT make an omelette with them. Just rap'em up.

Nod_Nod_Nod

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2012, 05:39:03 pm »
Topic shouldnt be "Who isn't tired of camers". It should be "Who doesn't love campers!"
The nodding of the head once to symbolize a greeting, cuz we white folk to damn lazy to open our mouths and speak up. Nods are also easier to shake off than a flase "hello".
"Person nods at you", or your direction, "you nod back"

And I was Nod like you, but I took an arrow in the knee.

The Linker

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E-Mxp

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Re: Who isn't tired of campers?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2012, 08:54:52 pm »