Author Topic: Truth is...  (Read 20931 times)

Nate

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Truth is...
« on: August 02, 2012, 11:53:43 am »
Truth is,

I actually love you all. I must bid you all farewell as duty calls for me. I must become an infantryman and protect those who camped against me on AA and spammed me bad words in pm.

Love always,
Nate/Riddler

The stupidest thing I did today was noticing Nate. Blah.

Qrntz

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 12:40:45 pm »

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 07:13:52 pm »
Truth is,

I actually love you all. I must bid you all farewell as duty calls for me. I must become an infantryman and protect those who camped against me on AA and spammed me bad words in pm.

Love always,
Nate/Riddler
even though it takes two infantry boys to equal one cavalryman, be careful out there.

keep your head down and your powder dry.
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Erwin Rommel

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 10:34:08 pm »
What branch?

I'm leaving within a week for Ft. Sill, OK.  Yeah...

Nux

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2012, 01:08:10 am »
This seems like a good opportunity to debate the affect of video games on peoples perception of warfare and to what extent being an infantryman in modern times helps protect the people at home.

LuckyCharms

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 07:22:06 am »
Bai, I only send naked pics via PM, so it couldn't have been me.



By the time 1.2 is finished, time travel will be normal, so why don't the future devs just travel back and release 1.2 early?  ???
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Nate

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 07:23:02 am »
Farewell.

L8tr d00d

even though it takes two infantry boys to equal one cavalryman, be careful out there.

keep your head down and your powder dry.

Will do.

What branch?

I'm leaving within a week for Ft. Sill, OK.  Yeah...

Army! Always been my branch.

This seems like a good opportunity to debate the affect of video games on peoples perception of warfare and to what extent being an infantryman in modern times helps protect the people at home.

Really odd time to choose to debate this matter. There is a lot I could say about your comments toward whether or not soldiers keep us safe at night. I'm gunna choose to just ignore this comment all together though.

The stupidest thing I did today was noticing Nate. Blah.

Nux

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 07:07:44 pm »
Really odd time to choose to debate this matter. There is a lot I could say about your comments toward whether or not soldiers keep us safe at night. I'm gunna choose to just ignore this comment all together though.

I respect your decisions, both to join the army and to not enter into a debate about it.

I do think think it's a good time to debate such a thing though, especially at a time when people might see you joining and possibly think 'Why don't I join too?'. In my opinion the military should be seen as what it is, an evil that has sometimes been necessary. I see too many people glorify warfare and those who engage in it.

As for the point about video games, I personally have never felt encouraged to sign up because of simulated warfare but I can't rule out that many others may have. I personally don't think that's any reason to put an end to warfare in FPSs but that's my view. This is the tremulous forums so I put that in there mainly because of that connection.

Undeference

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 05:59:21 am »
Clearly Nate is joining the army in anticipation of the impending alien invasion and his decision was entirely influenced by Tremulous.

I hope he enjoys camping more than his first post suggests.
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Nux

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2012, 06:29:34 pm »
The sad thing is, the sense of detachment required to go from a society where murder is evil to carrying out systematic killings must require a degree of dehumanising your targets and so I'd argue they might as well be the fictional characters of a computer game for the amount of empathy you must have for them. I suspect there's also plenty of mental gymnastics involved in turning every situation into a righteous mission against evil when all you have are orders from people without guarantee of similar goals and principles. Mainly though, I just can't overlook the statistical certainty that there exist people in the army who are in it simply so they can fullfill their desire to kill and that disgusts me.

Please note that my argument applies to both sides of any conflict and that I can see how it can be necessary, but this doesn't mean I have to like it.

LuckyCharms

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 04:54:41 am »
So he has to view them as dretchz so he can pwnzor? cuz if he views them as grangar then omg so much seks gon' happen.





On a serious note, best of luck.
By the time 1.2 is finished, time travel will be normal, so why don't the future devs just travel back and release 1.2 early?  ???
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RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 07:18:07 am »
ok nux.  i'll bite.  i'm on both sides of the fence you see, ideologically, i abhor the use of military force.  on the other hand, i have been a part of that very military force.

first off, video games do influence the perception of warfare.  much like recruiting commercials and war movies do.  they generally soften, our outright delete the "bad" parts, to show you brave men in their finest hour.  the US army even has an official FPS as a recruitment tool.

on the other hand, there is no way to convey how much being in the military sucks.personally, that is.  it's part of the shit they dont show you in any of that media i mentioned.  you see people jumping out of airplanes, rappelling, doing all that cool hooah hooah shit.  you dont see people sleeping in a muddy hole in the ground in the rain.  you dont see endless hours of buffing floors.  you dont see long hours and short pay.  you dont see how difficult it is to keep up basic hygiene when you are miles from civilization.

i dont think FPS games are geared to make you want to join the military, in general.  i think they help you to think of service members as superhuman gods.  who always take orders from hot women for some reason.

as to how infantry help keep you safe at night...  perhaps not so much these days.  not in our nations, nux.  but in the past of both, the infantry were integral from keeping the "barbaric hordes" at bay.  and there still exists nations today that would have their populace suffer at the hands of foreign oppressors without their military.  and ours, for that matter.  take for example, south korea.

you see, nux, neither you nor i know what it's like to live and grow up in a country under threat of invasion.  it has been so long since either of us have had to worry about it, our infrastructure is not built to handle a ground invasion.  in korea, passes cut through hills are lined with walls shoring up lots of loose stone....  those walls are primed to blow out and make the road impassible.  we dont conscript our citizens to guard a border with a hostile nation.  its been over a hundred years since either of us has fought a ground war on our own soil.

some of the reason for this is the success we have both had in ground wars, owing to our advanced manufacturing processes, and world class training.  another part is that both of us have shifted into waging economic wars, and preemptive battles.

while i do not agree with how we both constantly engage in war far from home, i will say it does build up the reputation we both have of "dont fuck with us".

oh, and you misunderstand the mindset of the common soldier.  95% of us, i'd say, have no care for "good and evil".  to us, it is "us and them".  there are a few hyperpatriots.  most of the folks who went to basic with me, they said they joined for college money.  i, myself, joined to have a job.  but "us and them".  most times, it does not matter who The Enemy is.  they are The Enemy, they want to kill your buddies.  the only way to stop them is to kill them.  being in a unit makes you grow attached to everyone in it.  there is a unity of thought, purpose, and action that is hard to describe.  the lack of this is what makes me very uncomfortable in crowds nowadays.  you come to love those you serve with.  you may not like them, but you love them and trust them with your life, as they do with you.  i would still kill and die for any of those who were in my troop (those not in the cavalry call that level of organization a battalion, or a battery in the artillery).  i could probably recognize most any of them from their walk alone.

so, it wouldent matter if The Enemy was god's angels complete with halos, i would kill them, or be killed by them, if it meant saving the life of one of my comrades.

oh, and on this side of the pond, we do psych evals and such.  if killing gets you off, you dont stay in.  that kind of soldier is an atrocity factory, and the army does not need that kind of PR. 

in closing, a quote from a movie.

Quote from: Col. Jessep
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

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Nux

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 07:19:46 pm »
We're in 99% agreeance, here. Success!

Firstly, when I talk of morals you may gladly replace it with 'feelings' wherever you see fit because to me there is no difference.

I can see how the grueling parts of military service might make it 'suck' but it's also the reason why joining the army can be something to be proud of and it would be great if the end result wasn't for the purposes of warfare. Funnily enough, we have such a thing that doesn't involve killing and it's happening right now in London and what's more it has a strong positive message of competition between nations without conflict.

I would agree that most soldiers may only consider the immediate concerns of 'need job', 'help friend' and 'don't die'. It's pretty ridiculous that someone trying to address the first one would bring the other two upon themselves. I guess I just hoped they would put more thought into it than that. Still, to quote Nate for example:

I must become an infantryman and protect those who camped against me...

I'm glad for anyone who wants to protect their countrymen but if you're going to say joining the army achieves this, I'm going to say you're just making yourself feel better.

Now if you were becoming a firefighter, I'd probably be giving you nothing but support.

CorSair

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2012, 10:24:51 pm »
Hope you got better time than I had Nate. I only became fatter because of my way to make life decide for me. :(

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 08:15:33 am »
We're in 99% agreeance, here. Success!

Firstly, when I talk of morals you may gladly replace it with 'feelings' wherever you see fit because to me there is no difference.

I can see how the grueling parts of military service might make it 'suck' but it's also the reason why joining the army can be something to be proud of and it would be great if the end result wasn't for the purposes of warfare. Funnily enough, we have such a thing that doesn't involve killing and it's happening right now in London and what's more it has a strong positive message of competition between nations without conflict.

I would agree that most soldiers may only consider the immediate concerns of 'need job', 'help friend' and 'don't die'. It's pretty ridiculous that someone trying to address the first one would bring the other two upon themselves. I guess I just hoped they would put more thought into it than that. Still, to quote Nate for example:

I must become an infantryman and protect those who camped against me...

I'm glad for anyone who wants to protect their countrymen but if you're going to say joining the army achieves this, I'm going to say you're just making yourself feel better.

Now if you were becoming a firefighter, I'd probably be giving you nothing but support.

hrm.  morals generate feelings in response to stimuli.  i can see how you'd lump the two together, but to me there is a distinction.  my morals cause me to feel things when they are in my environment.because of my morals, for example, i would feel bad if i accidentally hurt someone.  dont get me wrong, i understand your meaning, it is just that semantics are important to me.

unfortunately, good spirited athletic competition has no events for tank crews.  i know of no cordon and search events, and i am quite saddened by the lack of a night infiltration event.  it would be great if we could settle disputes like that, but we cannot.  the only way to force a government to do something is to kill its lifeblood....  its people, its infrastructure.  and mind you, the military isnt the only way to wage a war, and the end result is still killing.  it is called "economic sanctions".  they still kill, you know?  think of how many people would not be starving in north korea if the rest of the world actually traded with them.

put more thought into it?  veterans are regarded as heroes.  then there are those things invented so long ago to give meaning to us in the trenches - honor, tradition, glory.  i know next to nothing about the specifics of your military, but our own concluded that recruits didnt have enough of the proper values a decade or two ago.  now in basic training, you get values, morals, and ethics.  they force you to grow up, here in society where that does not seem to happen till 30 or later these days.

being a firefighter or policeman is just "making yourself feel better".  it ALL is.  and do mind the propaganda.  remember, the army kills threats abroad so that no attack can ever happen on your home soil.  this keeps you safe at night. 
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/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 10:08:11 am »
working in a field that requires high knowledge and intelligence (manufacturing control, research, etc.) yields a better value (in terms of wellness) for the people than serving in the army. the army is mostly for idiots who can't find other jobs. a minimal roster of army members is required for a country/etc., but 99.9999% of the people are retarded anyway. kthx.

hwd

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 01:56:58 pm »
Tc Nate, Mt. Hood, represent!

Nux

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 05:46:53 pm »
morals generate feelings in response to stimuli.

I don't think we differ much at all in our conceptions of what morals are so I'll try to avoid entering into a philosophical discussion about it. I can sum up my view as: 'Emotions occur first and explanations occur later.'

it would be great if we could settle disputes like that, but we cannot.

You seemed to have missed my point about the Olympics which, by the way, can also be applied to any other sporting event: It encompasses everything good about military. I wasn't suggesting it as an alternative to war, though it's a nice thought.

the only way to force a government to do something is to kill its lifeblood....  its people, its infrastructure.

I find that sentence disturbing. How did you get from 'settle disputes' to 'force to do something' to 'kill its people'?

veterans are regarded as heroes.

Which was what I was originally criticizing. It's strange how people automatically consider veterans as heroes, without any specific knowledge about what they did and with plenty of likelihood they caused as much pain and suffering as they might have prevented.

being a firefighter or policeman is just "making yourself feel better".  it ALL is.

You seem to be missing the point again. I criticise aspects of military duty where I would not criticise firefighting and would more readily call it a heroic profession. Policemen have police brutality and corruption to mar their reputation, so they're not such a good example.

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2012, 06:27:17 am »


I don't think we differ much at all in our conceptions of what morals are so I'll try to avoid entering into a philosophical discussion about it. I can sum up my view as: 'Emotions occur first and explanations occur later.'



You seemed to have missed my point about the Olympics which, by the way, can also be applied to any other sporting event: It encompasses everything good about military. I wasn't suggesting it as an alternative to war, though it's a nice thought.



I find that sentence disturbing. How did you get from 'settle disputes' to 'force to do something' to 'kill its people'?



Which was what I was originally criticizing. It's strange how people automatically consider veterans as heroes, without any specific knowledge about what they did and with plenty of likelihood they caused as much pain and suffering as they might have prevented.



You seem to be missing the point again. I criticise aspects of military duty where I would not criticise firefighting and would more readily call it a heroic profession. Policemen have police brutality and corruption to mar their reputation, so they're not such a good example.

it is philosophy, but why, to you, do emotions occur first?  you see/experience something, instantly feel something, and think about why later?  this may be true for the rational part of your mind, but some mental construct must exist as a "filter" of sorts by which these emotions are generated.  in general, these "filters" are cultural morals and ethics, and are instilled at a very early age. 

athletics != military.  they are related only in the broadest, most general terms possible.  modern militaries are all about inflicting as many casualties as possible while taking as few as possible.  it is true athletic competition usually grew from peacetime military operations in most cultures.  almost every athletic event that has done so teaches virtually nothing of the combat skills it was designed to teach.  you can see this process in action in martial arts.  many have become so ritualized so as to be completely ineffective in real combat.  thus, pretty much every mma fighter trains in the same 3-4 disciplines.

i follow this disturbing logic because this is the way the world works.  this is how and why war has existed for longer than there has been civilization.  even down to the individual level.  i want what you have/want you to do something.  you do not want to give it up/do it.  i must then hurt you till you are more willing to do what i demand.  chimpanzees do this.  we have done it this way longer than we have been human.  even nonhuman, nonsapient, animals do this, this is why predators kill each other.  lions kill jaguars and cheetahs because they do not want to share the prey in their hunting grounds.  in order to force a government to do something, you must hurt it.  this is why my nation waged war against yours for independence.  debate only works when the government/individual you are debating with is open to the idea of doing what you want.

veterans are heroes as a recruiting tool.  people are willing to risk life and limb for a shot at glory.  soldiers also get very angry when they do not get the respect they think they deserve, for example the homecoming of those who fought in vietnam.  they were spit on and called babykillers.  ive known more than a few old soldiers very bitter about this, to this day.  those constructs they use to give us incentive to fight - honor, service, glory - they would be meaningless if the populace did not propagate them.  all this combined would mean that our militaries could not fill ranks with volunteer soldiers.  this means that there would be widespread conscription, such as in korea.  conscripts make shitty soldiers, they get themselves and others killed.  they are more apt to break.

being a firefighter does not make you a saint.  there exists just as much opportunity for misconduct.  here are a couple of examples.  here, in my town, the fire chief just got fired for using inmate labor for his personal gain.  he used prisoners to cut his crass and wash his car and such.  another place in my state had a fire crew go into a burning house, rescue the people, then watch the house burn to the ground.  they sent the family a bill for their rescue.  this was because this particular family was late paying some fine or fee.

you are still young and idealistic, nux.  war must exist.  it is natural, a population control mechanism.  it is a sad but true fact of life, like disease.  after all, there are finite resources here on this earth.  and there will always be someone out there who thinks that they are more deserving of any given resource than the "rightful owners".  there will always be someone prepared to use violence to get what he wants, and so there must always be those willing to use violence to prevent this.  because when you look at the biggest picture, there is no "right and wrong", only "us and them" and how much either is prepared to do to get resources.

but please, do not take my acceptance of these facts as an admission of psychopathy or a symptom of being a mindless killing machine (those are marines, not cavalrymen.)  i have a very well developed sense of right and wrong, and i do hold my government accountable for transgressions against my set of morals and ethics, and actively urge others to do the same.
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/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2012, 01:14:00 pm »
people are willing to risk life and limb for a shot at glory.
or for a last-resort job.
war must exist.  it is natural, a population control mechanism.
the invention of the AIDS' virus is more a natural population control mechanism.

Qrntz

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2012, 02:23:21 pm »

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2012, 04:04:36 pm »

LuckyCharms

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By the time 1.2 is finished, time travel will be normal, so why don't the future devs just travel back and release 1.2 early?  ???
volt your site fucking suck i cant even register it says check your cookie wtf i eat cookies i dont check them

Nux

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2012, 05:37:26 pm »
it is philosophy, but why, to you, do emotions occur first?

  • Emotions seem the more basic aspect of thought to me since they can occur unexpectedly, against your wishes and they shape the way you think over time. This is what I mean by them occurring 'first'.

    I suspect you and I mean slightly different things when we say 'morals'. If there is a distinction between morals and emotions, it's that the idea of morals is the idea that there is a solid set of rules for deciding right and wrong. Emotional reactions are learned as are the justifications for them and so to me, morals are either the original reactions or those justifications.

    Still, I feel like any debate on this matter will just be a conflict between practically identical but seemingly distinct views. That's philosophy for you.

athletics != military.

  • I'm not sure why you're still misunderstanding me. The military has good aspects for recruits and these aspects are shared by athletics. Other aspects of the military are clearly nothing like athletics and I wouldn't suggest otherwise.

i follow this disturbing logic because this is the way the world works.

  • Your particular reasoning has yet to be explained.

    How did you get from 'settle disputes' to 'force to do something' to 'kill its people'?

    I don't dispute that, though highly reprehensible, this is a course of action that people take. You didn't merely state this, though. You started off talking about how to settle disputes, then leaped to-

    the only way to force a government to do something is to kill its lifeblood....  its people, its infrastructure.

    Who said anything about forcing? Why would you say that's the only way?

veterans are heroes as a recruiting tool.

  • I fully understand the reasons behind propaganda. What I'm doing is opposing it.

being a firefighter does not make you a saint.

  • Notice how I didn't say that.

you are still young and idealistic, nux.  war must exist.

  • And you are defeatist. The possibility of never winning is not justification for giving up completely. I agree that it's likely there will always be war but if we didn't oppose it there would never be peace.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:12:45 pm by Nux »

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2012, 07:37:49 am »


  • Emotions seem the more basic aspect of thought to me since they can occur unexpectedly, against your wishes and they shape the way you think over time. This is what I mean by them occurring 'first'.

    I suspect you and I mean slightly different things when we say 'morals'. If there is a distinction between morals and emotions, it's that the idea of morals is the idea that there is a solid set of rules for deciding right and wrong. Emotional reactions are learned as are the justifications for them and so to me, morals are either the original reactions or those justifications.

    Still, I feel like any debate on this matter will just be a conflict between practically identical but seemingly distinct views. That's philosophy for you.



  • I'm not sure why you're still misunderstanding me. The military has good aspects for recruits and these aspects are shared by athletics. Other aspects of the military are clearly nothing like athletics and I wouldn't suggest otherwise.



  • Your particular reasoning has yet to be explained.

    How did you get from 'settle disputes' to 'force to do something' to 'kill its people'?

    I don't dispute that, though highly reprehensible, this is a course of action that people take. You didn't merely state this, though. You started off talking about how to settle disputes, then leaped to-

    the only way to force a government to do something is to kill its lifeblood....  its people, its infrastructure.

    Who said anything about forcing? Why would you say that's the only way?


  • I fully understand the reasons behind propaganda. What I'm doing is opposing it.


  • Notice how I didn't say that.

  • And you are defeatist. The possibility of never winning is not justification for giving up completely. I agree that it's likely there will always be war but if we didn't oppose it there would never be peace.

its more about the semantics than philosophy with me on the "emotions" issue.  i agree that an emotion is the most basal kind of "thought" our brains are capable of, i just disagree with equating morals (or ethics) as the emotions themselves.  morals (and ethics) are tools that allow us to interpret the emotions generated by stimuli.  they are a totally sapient construct, animals without as much of a mind as we have do not have these.  they do not often have even such simple (to us) concepts as "right and wrong", barring a few examples in pack hunting predators and our closest living relatives.  these exceptions are because these groups possess culture.  so, what i mean to say with this rambling paragraph is that morals are the construct by which members of a culture weigh any given stimulus by cultural standards.

good aspects of military service are shared by many activities.  was the focus on athletics just some way of mentioning the olympics?  you also used an absolute - "everything good about the military".  im sure i can find plenty of good qualities of military service the olympics do not share (training for a real world job first in line), and i can just as quickly use these specific olympics to illustrate much of what is wrong with the world today.

i have to explain the mechanics of conflict?  it is a sad fact of human society.  disputes are not settled until enough bloodshed has taken place to force one government or another to back down.  you need only browse a history book to see the truth of my statement.  it goes all the way back to before recorded history.  i say "forcing" because to the parties involved, there is no other way.  another example from the war for american independence  - the rebellion did not begin until after the colonists had petitioned the king and parliament...  several times.  the war did not end until enough british troops had been killed for the politicians to decide more fighting was not worth it.  generally, governments WILL take every action to avoid an outright war, but more often than not, only bloodshed will "solve" things.

i'd say it is more than propaganda.  this particular motif is cross cultural, and integral to the societies it is found in (any with some sort of military tradition).  feel free to oppose it, you've just got millennia of material stacked up against you. after all, are not the greatest myths about and are not the greatest figures in history all "warrior kings"?

you called firefighting "heroic" and then cited corruption as the reason you do not say the same of police.  i did not intend to imply you think that firefighters should be sainted.  my intention was to demonstrate to you that there exists the possibility of corruption, and of actions that few would consider "heroic"

sometimes, nux, for there to be peace - there must be war.  i am not defeatist, just a realist.  im sure ive mentioned it here, but i do not have to like something for me to accept it as a fact.  i can even work to invalidate the fact by working to cause conditions which would make the fact in question to be no longer true.  for example - the federal reserve system.  i hate it.  i hate it as i hate few other things and concepts.  but i accept the fact that my nation has become so entangled with and dependent on this system, that there is no way in my lifetime of us being freed from it (barring something catastrophic, which is undesirable.  you do not replace injustice with catastrophe.)  war is much the same.  i can dislike it as much as i want, but i still accept that it is something "natural" in us.... some animal instinct.  we're not long out of the jungle after all.  despite our accomplishments, as a species we have existed on this earth an astonishingly short period of time.  we still mimic our lesser cousins who beat each other to death for the rights to some swatch of forest.

people are willing to risk life and limb for a shot at glory.
or for a last-resort job.
war must exist.  it is natural, a population control mechanism.
the invention of the AIDS' virus is more a natural population control mechanism.
the two are not mutually exclusive.

equally.  we've had "war" at least as long as we've been pack hunters.  HIV, manufactured or not, is a disease, and disease has been around probably as long as parasitism has, if not somehow sooner.  they are both natural elements of life on earth, though the former is exclusive to social animals.

unless you want to call the way trees kill undergrowth by "stealing" all of the sunlight a form of warfare.
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/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2012, 09:44:18 am »
war must exist.  it is natural, a population control mechanism.
the invention of the AIDS' virus is more a natural population control mechanism.
we've had "war" at least as long as we've been pack hunters.
but at that time, the population required no control.


RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2012, 01:15:17 am »
but at that time, the population required no control.
in social animals, populations always need control...  in many senses of the word.

populations need to at least temporarily control territory.

populations must be kept in check, conflicts for resources are one of many symptoms of overpopulation on nearly any scale.

populations must have a leader to direct them.  even herbivorous food animals follow this trend.  with pack hunters, though, the absence of a leader has more profoundly observable results.

our societies, cross cultural and at any level, always have shown that despite all of our achievements, we still function like the pack hunters we were and are.  this is one time i am comfortable using the absolute.

ever hear the old axiom "a mob is only as smart as its dumbest member"?  how about the word "groupthink"?  as disadvantageous as these particular traits are to the modern, reasoning, man - they are beneficial for the activity of....  you guessed it...  pack hunting.

and to keep up the rambling tangent, wars and organized fighting arose from pack hunting, too.  you can witness the transformation in action when troupes of chimps battle each other.  i hear some chimp cultures have even discovered the first and best weapon in military history - the spear.


edit:  i missed this beauty for a long time now, i suppose i must respond.

working in a field that requires high knowledge and intelligence (manufacturing control, research, etc.) yields a better value (in terms of wellness) for the people than serving in the army. the army is mostly for idiots who can't find other jobs. a minimal roster of army members is required for a country/etc., but 99.9999% of the people are retarded anyway. kthx.
how do you get training for these high-production-yield fields?  going to school is expensive these days.  not everyone's mommy and daddy can put them through school, and working an unskilled job either does not pay enough for school, or takes up too much time to actually attend class.  i think i mentioned it before in this very thread, i'd estimate 80% of all of the men who went to basic training with me joined for tuition assistance.  and this was in the cavalry - combat arms...  one of the branches that give you very little training for a skilled profession when you get out.  many fields of support translate directly to years of experience in a skilled trade, like with the communications boys.

there are also tests you have to take before you are accepted for service.  while 99.9999% of servicemen were jocks in high school (at least in combat arms...  where you are most likely to find actual retards.....  barring officers in general) one test, in particular, weeds out the actual retards.  you must score at least a 30 on the ASFAB to be a "dumb grunt" infantryman.  gotta score either a 90 or 110 to be in the cavalry.

in closing, our army is statistically just as diverse as the nation.  too diverse for "mostly" to apply.  i dont think "motive for joining" data has ever been compiled, but i would be willing to stake money that if any one reason has a clear majority, it would be "money for college".

oh, and let the record show, i did join as "job of last resort", but i also took my tuition assistance when i got out, and immediately picked up training in a skilled profession.  A+ and N+ certification.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 01:55:16 am by RAKninja-Decepticon »
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Nate

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2012, 09:01:29 am »
I don't feel comfortable taking credit for things I'm not partaking in. My plan was combat, but I qualified for few combat jobs and there was one available now. One I am not interested in. So I took a desk job as a Army Human Resource specialist.

Sorry if I disappointed you guys.  ;)

The stupidest thing I did today was noticing Nate. Blah.

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Truth is...
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2012, 10:07:18 pm »
I don't feel comfortable taking credit for things I'm not partaking in. My plan was combat, but I qualified for few combat jobs and there was one available now. One I am not interested in. So I took a desk job as a Army Human Resource specialist.

Sorry if I disappointed you guys.  ;)
92Y?  i did that job for almost a year after the first time i got hurt.  what was the combat arms opening you werent interested in?
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