Hungry for Tremulous 1.2?

[Risujin]

TJW + Domination mod is the most fun ever. No camping, no bullcrap, just plain fun. Especially on our server since we don't really get any "newbs" it's just good fun teamwork.

I was about to join the shameless self-promotion-fest and plug Domination mod, but someone beat me to it ... twice.

Dom forces players to come out of their hidey holes. It doesn't work as well without TJW's changes. TJW balanced the teams very well, almost brings the game to a grinding halt sometimes because of the many comebacks.

I was as critical as anyone when I read some of his tweaks ("Adv. Goon at S2 omfg?!" etc), but no, it is something you must experience. Well worthy to be Tremulous 1.2. Give }MG{DominationMod a try!

[Odin]

Once 1.2 actually does come out, someone will code a "Nostalgia" mod, re-adding all the cool stuff from 1.1, which finds instant popularity among the player-base.

Instead it wouldn't be called "Nostalgia". It'd be called "Un-Stupid".

[kozak6]

I think "Classic" would be my adjective of choice.

[durand]

I can't play on tjw's server for some reason. As soon as it loads, my ping shoots up to 999 while in the server browser, it says 60, etc.

Oh and is there a faster way to download all the new changes without waiting for ages to download from the server at 11kbps?

[optear]

I can't play on tjw's server for some reason. As soon as it loads, my ping shoots up to 999 while in the server browser, it says 60, etc.

Oh and is there a faster way to download all the new changes without waiting for ages to download from the server at 11kbps?

get tjw's backport enable www downloads?

[durand]

already have that and downloads were enabled...maybe the server doesnt support it

[durand]

I think we need to put a link to atcs 3, one of the new maps used on }MG{ Domination. Its on the clan website, http://www.mercenariesguild.net/base/map-atcs3.pk3[/url]

[Diggs]

how do I mod tjw with patches?. I downloaded the svn
please help! :cry:

He keeps them all in one big patch; told me to do it like this:

Check out the svn version:

Code: [Select]

svn://svn.icculus.org/tremulous/trunk/ name-of-directory-you-want-everything-in
Then go to the directory you just made and run

Code: [Select]

wget http://tjw.org/tremulous-current/ -O - | patch -p0
Best thing to do is make a clean install of tremulous in a directory that's not your normal trem folder, unzip data-1.1.0.pk3, then delete it and vms-1.1.0.pk3, and make a folder called vm/ under base/.

When you compile tremulous, copy over the qvm's it builds (look in the build/ directory) to this vm folder, as well as the binary it made to the top level of your tremulous development folder (one level above base/). Run that with +set sv_pure 0, and +set fs_homepath set to that same directory so it won't touch your normal trem configuration folder (dunno if this is necessary on Windows; might not hurt to skip it on Linux too).

I made this helper script in my tremulous source directory to do the above for me:

Code: [Select]

#!/bin/sh
cp build/release-linux-x86/base/vm/*.qvm ~/games/tremulous-dev/base/vm
cp build/release-linux-x86/tremulous.x86 ~/games/tremulous-dev/tremulous.x86
~/games/tremulous-dev/tremulous.x86 +set fs_homepath ~/games/tremulous-dev +set sv_pure 0 +devmap $1
You can figure out how to adapt it to your needs.

This is intimidating for most and prohibitive for some.  What a mess just to install a patch.

And I agree with gareth - TJW had one of the most popular servers and it used to be one of my favorites.  Now it is hard to even find enough players on it for a decent game.  Hopefully this will change, but it does give an indication of the poor acceptance of these changes.

[Lakitu7]

Most of the playerbase is casual newbs that have no idea what the server is or how to get a backport to allow them to play on it. I don't think the acceptance rate among the 10% that have tjw clients is really that low; it's just that the casual/newb population will always be the bulk and at this point their inability to be there isn't really a rejection of the changes as much as a lack of knowledge and/or a lack of really caring deeply enough about the game to want to play beta-ish versions.

[Norfenstein]

already have that and downloads were enabled...maybe the server doesnt support it

You might have to set cl_cURLLib to "libcurl.so.3" instead of its default. Or set it to whatever your actual libcurl library is called. And you need cl_wwwDownload turned on in addition (not sure about this) to cl_allowDownload.

This is intimidating for most and prohibitive for some. What a mess just to install a patch.

Come on, you should be able to come up with better things to criticize than that. One person that already knows svn asked how to apply the patch -- which takes a single command -- and I passed along additional information that was useful to me. And I don't think it's being elitist to say anyone that can't follow such simple instructions probably won't be able to do much with the source.

[Diggs]

Norf-

Read what you wrote.  I don't have a problem with it, but how many times have you seen players ask what "ping" is or some of the other of the bizzare questions we get.  That seems to be more the average player I was thinking that is going to have problems.

Don't get me wrong, even though I am having problems adjusting to the changes I haven't given up and keep trying, but when I find myself not enjoying the game, I go play elsewhere.

[Mispeled]

I tried TJW with MG's domination mod. I'm liking the gameplay changes a lot so far... aliens are a lot more versatile; lower classes are a lot more useful (adv lisk's gas is a bit overpowered, though, especially how it can affect bsuits). New build system is much better, although it's a bit confusing at first.

The biggest thing I don't like is the way turrets have changed, although it might just be something to get used to.


How far is the range for lisk's health regeneration boost? Is it like booster where you have to be right next to it for it to work?

[n00b pl0x]

i can deal with the delay between secondary fires now...but the delay between primary fire is pretty brutal...thats actually the only change that i really hate...i can deal with the rest.

[Plague Bringer]

i can deal with the delay between secondary fires now...but the delay between primary fire is pretty brutal...thats actually the only change that i really hate...i can deal with the rest.

QFT! Luci is supposed to be a weapon of mass destruction, it's meant to destroy bases, with the power it has to destro bases it can also be spammed, but taking away the potential to spam also takes away the potential to destroy bases. The luci is next to useless as an offencive weapon now and needs to be fixed.

[Greudin]

progress bars are so cute

Is unlagged forced ?

[whitebear]

If there were new weapons or structures, people would be more excited to play on those servers.


Small gameplay changes are really boring.  I've played the changes a couple of times in the past weeks but they really don't excite me.  Its just small changes.  

The major issues still really haven't been addressed:
1) A solo human counter to tyrants
2) Encouragement to get humans out of the base
3) Compromise to dretch ground-head-bites.
4) Barricade usefulness and the overall boringness of alien bases
5) Still don't really see a use for basilisks or marauders other than the forced need for basilisks for regen.
6) Alien grenade (marauder zap are still blah)
7) Human weapon complexity and limit in overall effectiveness between aliens (good at everything, scale between s1 and s3 well) whereas humans are good at only certain things per gear load out and don't really scale in power with stage progression.

These changes address issues that I really don't feel where major issues.

As regards number 5, I thought this myself somewhat, but I played a game last night where everyone on Alien all went basi or mara, not just the usual dretch and goon, and we ruled the Humans in a short "L" hallway, briefly, while they were S2. It seems that nobody really uses these classes, (and do the adv gas and electrical attacks really do anything?), but they could be really cool if they were utilized a bit more, and didn't seem so weak (they can actually be quite effective, but the line between fight-to-the-kill and run-away-screaming is very fine). You don't see them utilized that well that often. Yet if they are made stronger, humans must also get some new counterbalance.

I haven't played too much modded Trem, so I don't really know how the new changes play. But I'm glad Tremulous is still growing and changing.

I don't know about a solo human to counter tyrants. Two Humans working together when at least one has a battlesuit and the other has a luci seems pretty strong. As far as points 2, 4, and 6, I made some suggestions on Sushi's "new wepons (sic)" thread on the Mods forum that you may find interesting.

http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4036

I think dretching is pretty hard, although as a Human I think they have an unfair advantage. You've got to admit, it does take some skill or practice to be able to dretch well. I don't think it's too easy. It just seems that way to Humans.

As far as your last point, I think you contradicted yourself when you said that basis and maras are useless. Maybe I misunderstand, but how then do Aliens scale well? Also, I think a big part of the game is learning to work with teammates. This is why Humans have limited loadouts. They need their teammates. The Aliens do, too, it's just less obvious.

Not flaming you personally, temple. It's just that you had some interesting points that I had immediate views on. I agree with your basic premise, gameplay is all well and good, but where are the new toys, tools, and artifacts that really excite gamerz? We're model-hungry ingrates. I'll go play now.

Aliens scale well because the more an alien costs, the better it is than it predecessors.  On the flip side, human weapons aren't always better with more cost.  In fact, human weapons tend to be harder to pick and coordinate.

Basilisks and Marauders have uses but once you get good, its nothing a goon can't do and do better.  

Humans have limited loadouts because they have more specific abilities.  The beauty is being able to coordinate but its myth that people can coordinate anything outside of a clan match.

2 Humans against a tyrants is still a solo fight between a tyrant because the rant will kill 1 humans almost immediately, leaving just 1 guy left.  Rants got nerfed but they are still rants.  A good player will still be devastating but they won't be as awesome as before.  Either way, I think humans just need a solid weapon that can take out rants consistently, rather than nerfing rants.  

A luci cannon (used to) kill anything below a rant easily if the alien made a mistake.  Chainguns are equally punishing.  But with rants, nothing kills them fast enough.  Now, luci cannons are still pretty much the same against rants and chainguns are slightly more effective in killing fleeing aliens.  But I think the nerfs to aliens make the harder to play rather really giving humans want they need.  Like I said before, aliens will get better due to the challenges, humans will still stay the same.

I really don't care about flames or anything.  I'm just bored of Tremulous and I want something, anything, new and exciting.

(1)There actualy already is way to kill rant pretty easy on solo, BS + Flamer. rant can kill human with minium of three hits and flamer can kill it in about four seconds. Rant can win the fight either tricking the human (forcing him to aim badly) or using charge attack to deal lot of damage.
(2)To get humans out of base there should be domination points or some short of resource gathering.
(4)Alien bases and bases in over all are extremely boring. That is the reason why I personaly like to grab the base and try to build my way high as possible to settel the base (no drech elevator cheating ^^) but I mostly do this only on (Cebt) server coz I would probly get vote kicked by some boring players that take the game too seriously ("It's not about wining and losing. It's about how you play the game"- Calvin, from Calvin & Hobbes).
(5)Basilisk is useful for support (holding still), sneak attacks on singular oppoments and can be used even large group of headprotectionless humans that don't have advanced weaponry (pulse, flamer, lucy) and they cost 1 evo (dreches are shot down with buckshot in seconds on same sitsuation).
Marauderer can dance infront of human defences or even used to quickly rape reactor or spawns or what ever they see best to take down first (sometimes take cover from turrets using random human structure and rape it while at it.). (6) Zap attack is best way to solve problem of s2 human groups since helmet gives no protection against it while humans sufering credit loss die with one successful perfect zap. Last but not least the turrets don't like zaps and there are more zaps to spare than human can buy on one game.
(7)S1 weapons seem to give one weapon for each way of playing with guns (rifle with rapid fire, buckshot, sniper etc.) then s2 gives them pulse wich all larger aliens fear coz of extreme damage and slow projectiles turning into wall of damage and fool would run on it eh? so that is to keep aliens away. flamer to make some krisp of those damn dreches that does not seem to fall into pulse walls of red lazer and for later on to keep rants away from base. Lucy is just the final piece that turns street fight into nuclear war.

[Nosfore]

Then do not forget that at least the TJW and SatGNU Tremulous servers are running the latest gameplay changes applied to Tremulous, mostly done by Norfenstein.

These balance changes greatly improve upon Tremulous, but some things have changed, and require a different approach this time around.

So, why not enable automatic downloading in Tremulous, connect to either TJW or SatGNU and have a look around in the game, notice the differences, get ready for 1.2.

Once you get used to the new 'balance', you will totally miss it when you connect to a Tremulous 1.1.0 server, and yearn for the sweetness that the Tremulous standalone release has brought us gameplay-wise. It's not all Balance Mod and TremX...

Do we, players, have any influence on what will be in 1.2 or we're simply specatators?

[whitebear]

I think they have almost completed it so I bet it does not have much effect if you spam the whole post "I want bazooka." :wink:
Although we ofcource demand atleast 1 new alien class and new human equipment

[Plague Bringer]

I demand the old ROF for the luci's primary.

[Norfenstein]

i can deal with the delay between secondary fires now...but the delay between primary fire is pretty brutal...thats actually the only change that i really hate...i can deal with the rest.

The delay should be no different when charging up all the way. It's only when shooting less than fully charged shots that you get a longer reload. And not having any minimum charge is actually a good thing in some situations. I think it's still a little buggy though, so stay tuned...

but taking away the potential to spam also takes away the potential to destroy bases

I disagree.

Do we, players, have any influence on what will be in 1.2 or we're simply specatators?

Good, novel, ideas are always welcome, but Tremulous isn't designed democratically.


And, if I may? I think everyone should slow down with the feedback. We are constantly changing things and many things being complained about are not even close to being finalized. If you don't like the new changes, stop playing on servers that use them. We'll let you know when you should come back and try again. If that's not what you want then please play for longer than a day, or even a week, before getting pissed off. No one is qualified to judge changes untill they've seen how they affect the entire game (not just the small portion you focus on, or like best, or only saw that one time you playtested). Trust me, I've been in your position before, and have embarassed myself complaining loudly about things before getting used to them. You're free to do that too, of course, but remember that some changes might not make total sense until further things are implemented. Please have patience and keep open minds.

I demand the old ROF for the luci's primary.

svn.icculus.org/tremulous/trunk

Yea, that's a lame response, but you earned it. And if you don't have the skills to hack code, find someone who does that shares your views. I didn't start out in Tremulous contributing anything except ideas, and now my ideas are mostly directing Tremulous's future. I got here by being polite and respectful.

[BodyOrgan]

There is only one thing I want from the developers, and that's a fixed 1.1 binary ala tjw's backport except with the gui sort by ping fixed.

You can keep your 1.2

[Diggs]

Slow down with the feedback?  I would have thought it would be welcome.  From what I have seen there has been very little, but I don't monitor the feedback forum too much.  Still, I would hope that the changes are not being made just for a select group of players.  That leads to a fragmentated community and empty servers.

(I do have to laugh at all the "don't you dare change my noob cannon" comments.  Unknown to some - there are other weapons available at S3.)

[Plague Bringer]

I was responding to

Although we ofcource demand atleast 1 new alien class and new human equipment

[n00b pl0x]

(I do have to laugh at all the "don't you dare change my noob cannon" comments.  Unknown to some - there are other weapons available at S3.)

what is a noob cannon? is this going to be a new weapon? ive played trem for quite a while and havent seen this weapon.

[Plague Bringer]

(I do have to laugh at all the "don't you dare change my noob cannon" comments.  Unknown to some - there are other weapons available at S3.)

what is a noob cannon? is this going to be a new weapon? ive played trem for quite a while and havent seen this weapon.

</sarcasm>? I hope so.

[whitebear]

Wow! Thats great name for weapon... atleast one weapon with descriping name. Weapon to shoot noobs with?

[n00b pl0x]

theres a specific weapon you can only use to shoot noobs?

[Plague Bringer]

The weapon for noobs, the Lucifer Cannon, the most destructive and fearful weapon in the game, atleast, it used to be.

[whitebear]

I don't use it coz it's boring... ...and the fact that I am pyro maniac.

[n00b pl0x]

i know what a lucifer cannon is. were talking about the noob cannon.