What about 3D engine ?

[mooseberry]

1st - I don't understand almost fifth word in your text you wrote

A major argument against the update that I have seen is: "Oh, but what about low end computers?"
It's not like ioq3 runs particularly well on low end machines. Even some modern engines perform better.
I installed Trem on a Pentium 4, onboard Intel running Linux.
Tremulous wasn't even playable.

intel hardware and drivers are trash. and as amanieu will tell you, making the engine use vertex buffers will actually hurt your fps on intel.

They don't run your software X so they must be trash, even if they run software Y. Software Y developers are known hackers anyway

Well see, take a look at the title of this forum.

[Haraldx]

1st - I don't understand almost fifth word in your text you wrote

That's your problem.
If you don't understand what he said, then you shouldn't be arguing in this topic.

My problem? I don't have any fucking problem!!! You are sitting here and whinning that trem needs a new egnine! The current engine hasn't vevn been hit to the max! I do not choose games by graphic and that's one of the reason why I play tremulous. If we change the engine to something really badass with allkind of HDR effects and other shit, we will have full servers of 8 years old kids. It could get even worse if Voice chat (microphone) would become like an official release. You will just lose loads of players! BULLSHIT TOPIC!!! You guys know nothing on how to gain players for games, because all you want is some gameplay and super-awesome graphic. Blow it out your ass.

[Asvarox]

1st - I don't understand almost fifth word in your text you wrote

That's your problem.
If you don't understand what he said, then you shouldn't be arguing in this topic.

My problem? I don't have any fucking problem!!! You are sitting here and whinning that trem needs a new egnine! The current engine hasn't vevn been hit to the max! I do not choose games by graphic and that's one of the reason why I play tremulous. If we change the engine to something really badass with allkind of HDR effects and other shit, we will have full servers of 8 years old kids[/size]. It could get even worse if Voice chat (microphone) would become like an official release. You will just lose loads of players! BULLSHIT TOPIC!!! You guys know nothing on how to gain players for games, because all you want is some gameplay and super-awesome graphic. Blow it out your ass.

I guess ioq3 didn't stop them.

What gimhael said is that soon trem wouldn't work on newer computers and that it didn't use full potential of them. It will soon become a floppy disc - no modern computer supports them.

[Bissig]

1st - I don't understand almost fifth word in your text you wrote

A major argument against the update that I have seen is: "Oh, but what about low end computers?"
It's not like ioq3 runs particularly well on low end machines. Even some modern engines perform better.
I installed Trem on a Pentium 4, onboard Intel running Linux.
Tremulous wasn't even playable.

intel hardware and drivers are trash. and as amanieu will tell you, making the engine use vertex buffers will actually hurt your fps on intel.

They don't run your software X so they must be trash, even if they run software Y. Software Y developers are known hackers anyway

If you have no clue whatsoever about a topic: shut up.

[Winnie the Pooh]

Most people seem to forget that there are graphics settings, which allow you to adjust the level of detail to something that can run on your computer.

[Aviator]

Most people seem to forget that there are graphics settings, which allow you to adjust the level of detail to something that can run on your computer.

And to slightly increase performance of the game you can also turn down sound quality but yes graphics settings is very useful :]

[nubcake]

The full team devs have done little more in 1.2 than what trem x did (and even trem x had new models,skins etc)from what I can tell (ie a handful of gameplay changes). And trem x was released YEARS ago. I think the real issue with engine porting is that the devs cbf redoing it for another engine.

You can argue about all the pros/cons of a new engine, but if the devs cbf doing it, then it will never happen.

As for the actual topic at hand, I dont think it is so much the actual engine thats the problem (although is certainly IS dated), I think its the actual maps being made for it. Look at pulse, even the default maps pale in comparison in terms of beauty. Also, the models could use a decent upgrade, and from what I saw in some youtube vids and concept art, maybe that will happen for 1.2 full release.

[mooseberry]

1st - I don't understand almost fifth word in your text you wrote

That's your problem.
If you don't understand what he said, then you shouldn't be arguing in this topic.

My problem? I don't have any fucking problem!!! You are sitting here and whinning that trem needs a new egnine! The current engine hasn't vevn been hit to the max! I do not choose games by graphic and that's one of the reason why I play tremulous. If we change the engine to something really badass with allkind of HDR effects and other shit, we will have full servers of 8 years old kids. It could get even worse if Voice chat (microphone) would become like an official release. You will just lose loads of players! BULLSHIT TOPIC!!! You guys know nothing on how to gain players for games, because all you want is some gameplay and super-awesome graphic. Blow it out your ass.

Ohhh boy.... Ok read your sentances over again please. "we will have full servers of 8 year old kids" and "you will just lose loads of players". If you could make up your mind and not yell in bold maybe people would take you seriously. You also didn't understand what he said, he was saying if you can't understand someone talking about a graphics engine than you probably shouldn't be involved in talks about a graphics engine. The fact that you misunderstood this makes me start to agree with him more. You also started going off swearing and cursing seemingly randomly, so get overyourself. Finally, your replies don't make any sense at all compared to what people had been talking about, because they wern't talking about getting some super engine and getting rid of old players. READ what people say before you comment. Finally, as noted previously, even if this did happen, which it won't, there are settings which can be turned down.

In summary, take a deep breath, calm down, and maybe follow his advice.

Oh also, "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE SHUT THE FUCK UP."

And @Nubcake, all I can say is you ought to read the thread you're posting in.

[Haraldx]

1st - I don't understand almost fifth word in your text you wrote

That's your problem.
If you don't understand what he said, then you shouldn't be arguing in this topic.

My problem? I don't have any fucking problem!!! You are sitting here and whinning that trem needs a new egnine! The current engine hasn't vevn been hit to the max! I do not choose games by graphic and that's one of the reason why I play tremulous. If we change the engine to something really badass with allkind of HDR effects and other shit, we will have full servers of 8 years old kids. It could get even worse if Voice chat (microphone) would become like an official release. You will just lose loads of players! BULLSHIT TOPIC!!! You guys know nothing on how to gain players for games, because all you want is some gameplay and super-awesome graphic. Blow it out your ass.

Ohhh boy.... Ok read your sentances over again please. "we will have full servers of 8 year old kids" and "you will just lose loads of players". If you could make up your mind and not yell in bold maybe people would take you seriously. You also didn't understand what he said, he was saying if you can't understand someone talking about a graphics engine than you probably shouldn't be involved in talks about a graphics engine. The fact that you misunderstood this makes me start to agree with him more. You also started going off swearing and cursing seemingly randomly, so get overyourself. Finally, your replies don't make any sense at all compared to what people had been talking about, because they wern't talking about getting some super engine and getting rid of old players. READ what people say before you comment. Finally, as noted previously, even if this did happen, which it won't, there are settings which can be turned down.

In summary, take a deep breath, calm down, and maybe follow his advice.

Oh also, "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE SHUT THE FUCK UP."

And @Nubcake, all I can say is you ought to read the thread you're posting in.

I didn't says so much ''fuck'' and I didn't say ''asshole''
Ok guys make tremulous with Crysis graphics, because then even on lowest settings most of players won't be able to play this game. I don't care because it's none of my bussines. Ahhh... I wish that there would be a rule:
Do not make topics about that tremulous needs new engine and $#!T.

[tuple]

Look at pulse, even the default maps pale in comparison in terms of beauty.

Sadly, pulse has a serious and fatal flaw which makes public games pretty much unplayable.  Don't get me wrong, I love pulse, a fun and beautiful map and needs a single nobuild square to fix it

Any mapper up to giving it a try?
http://code.google.com/p/pulsemap/source/checkout

[Drag222]

Ok guys make tremulous with Crysis graphics, because then even on lowest settings most of players won't be able to play this game. I don't care because it's none of my bussines. Ahhh... I wish that there would be a rule:
Do not make topics about that tremulous needs new engine and $#!T.

Xreal supports texture compression, and VBOs, and at the lowest settings, it looks as ugly as tremulous, and runs faster than tremulous.
Crysis at low setting still use lots of heavy features, but on Xreal everything can be shut down (if you don't believe me ask Pitbull, he knows how to shut this thing down)

[Haraldx]

Did I say Xreal? I said Crysis, Crysis means Cryengine 2. Ok then lets make trem on Xreal if it is so good. You will se alot of bugs and compability issues when porting. I do NOT care if the porting is already started, look how long it is taking. *sarcasm* OH NO WHAT DO WE DO! we all are gonna die of old age and then trem will be ported to Xreal. *sarcasm* HELP THE DEVS not just sit here and have some chit chat. You may have breaks every 30 minutes, you must report what have you done once in 2 weeks. Move it soldier. Anyobdy who said something against the new egnine idea may not participate in the development.

[jm82792]

I endured reading this 10 page thread so I am going to toss out my opinion.

Why not use the Blender Game engine ?
It has such to easy to use interface,
it would be extremely easy to lower down the graphics quality for older computers with only a few simple changes,
it's overall a great idea in my opinion.
If anybody disagrees tell me why,
I know how to use Blender pretty well and only see a few issues.
I can get it to the point that you have a human running around,
aliens, walk cycles for each of them, damage, weapons,
nice lighting and those "Entities" like doors, lava and junk are extremely easy to do.
I don't know how to code but I can get it to that point easily enough,
the engine seems to run quickly enough, yes it does slow down older computers but just swap out high res textures with lower ones, disable GLSL lighting and some other eye candy.

[Timbo]

I don't recall if I've ever expressed these sentiments before, but any discussion of other engines is really an academic exercise. Moving to a different engine basically entails a complete rewrite and (I hope) is obviously not something we want or have the time to do. The only realistic option for better graphics (which seems to be the main motivation for this thread) is to use something based on Q3 like XReaL or the UrT renderer.

[Drag222]

UrT lol

Not using BGE, because it has nothing to do with Id tech (so no map formats support) and it's not realy powerful at this moment.

[Conzul]

@jm82792      Heh beat me to it.

@Timbo        Aren't most of tremulous' models made in blender?

@Drag222      BGE does support both the import and export of quake 3 files, which you seem to be referring to, (like .md3) you just have to google the python modules necessary and download them. It natively exports to a Quake 3 .map, and to import Quake 3 .map look here :   

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=527183


huh?

[David]

Maps aren't models.  Treating them as such is a quick way to have zero performance.  Blender would never work for something like this.

And the could  (could be) written in notepad.  Lets use notepad as an engine!

[jm82792]

So basically what you are saying is that it would be nice but it doesn't have enough specialization or focus(somewhat within the analogy of a PC against game console) in the handling of a map as a map not a model.
Now that you mentioned that I noticed on my computer I'm only getting 30 FPS on Yo Frankie.
That is a bummer since BGE is otherwise a great idea.

If the engine is ever upgraded I can do a lot of stuff in Blender,
I've been using it for almost 2 years.

[Cadynum]

This has probably been mentioned somewhere earlier, but xreal includes a tremulous techdemo.
It doesn't look too great since the media isn't made for xreal, but the lightning and the shadows are pretty sleek.

[Conzul]

Yeah BGE is painfully slow right now, even with their "enhancements".

[jm82792]

Well with Trem when I'm running everything at maximum quality at 1920X1080 resolution I'm going down to 50 FPS from my 90FPS. That is with a Q9400 2.66 Quad Core 2 with a not too shabby 512MB ATI Radeon HD3450 that I slightly over clocked.
BGE with Yo Frankie(with all it's capabilities, max quality) is 18FPS,
and it's way better looking(too organic obviously) than Trem at
it's highest quality.
Basically what I'm concluding is that if I had a better graphics card I'd get 30 FPS,
along with some improvements that we could hopefully see in a years time it could be a possibility.
I did read about Quake, it's interesting on how it renders and possibly in the future this could a plausible option if it's not already ported and if BGE has became quicker.

However getting it to BGE is the easy part,
getting it to work with lots of coding online is a probably the worst part.

[Conzul]

BGE is just so easy, it's tempting to me. It exports to practically anything, and it runs on more OS's than trem does now (solaris, irix, w/e).

[kevlarman]

trem runs just fine on solaris, and there are patches for irix.

[Stannum]

lol

[your face]

Sadly, pulse has a serious and fatal flaw which makes public games pretty much unplayable.  Don't get me wrong, I love pulse, a fun and beautiful map and needs a single nobuild square to fix it

Any mapper up to giving it a try?
http://code.google.com/p/pulsemap/source/checkout

AFAIK Taiyo is in the process of remaking pulse.

[SlackerLinux]

Sadly, pulse has a serious and fatal flaw which makes public games pretty much unplayable.  Don't get me wrong, I love pulse, a fun and beautiful map and needs a single nobuild square to fix it

Any mapper up to giving it a try?
http://code.google.com/p/pulsemap/source/checkout

AFAIK Taiyo is in the process of remaking pulse.

hope so i do <3 that map but it has several pitfalls(humans have a very hard time setting up)

[Conzul]

trem runs just fine on solaris, and there are patches for irix.

...stand corrected.

[jal]

And even if it wasn't posible to run it either at solaris nor irix, what would it matter? That's not a serious reason to pick an engine at all.

[oggmad]

And even if it wasn't posible to run it either at solaris nor irix, what would it matter? That's not a serious reason to pick an engine at all.

Never underestimate the masses who want to play at work.

[Conzul]

And even if it wasn't posible to run it either at solaris nor irix, what would it matter? That's not a serious reason to pick an engine at all.

One of Trem's biggest selling points is its cross-platform paradigm. That is a serious reason to pick an engine. (For instance, I only play it because I'm stuck on an ubuntu distro, so I may as well get into it)