Humans overpowered.

[BlOw*Up]

Humans are overpowered in 1.2 then aliens.
I know someone will put a chart and show how they are not but the chart isnt showing the real stats it shows how players play.
Having pros on one side and noobs on the other will show how on chart how one side is overpowered but it is because of the players not actual team and class.

Ok


Humans have medistation at the beginning of the game which is s1 booster but without poison.
Humans also have medkits while aliens have regeneration but alien regeneration is slow while medkits can heal way faster and it is free and everybody has it.
Aliens have to relay on basilisks but thats not fair since you cannot expect basilisk to be present where you are but for humans they have medkits and heal themselves whenever they are.

Lucifer cannon it is good as it is but I would change only one thing humans who shoot charged on close range should take more damage.
Also fun note a fully charged luci shot can take out a adv goon which has 250 hp but cannot take out armored human. Which means humans can take more damage then aliens not to mention bsuits which takes 4 slashes by tyrant to kill them.


In every game like tremulous (gloom, natural selection)
They had made a very balacing game.
Humans relay on long range weapons and aliens relay on melee attacks and special abileties.
It would be cool if aliens had more powers like cloaking, stun, A REAL long ranged weapons (adv goon barbs are cool but it would be better with larger splash area.)
It would be better if tyrant had grangers spit that way it could be at least used.
Grangers spit is like a hovel.

[c4]

Every month or so, a topic like this pops up.  Bullshit.

While humans have medkits, aliens have regeneration.  Medkits only heal once, which makes humans more dependent on having a base (or a repeater and medi) close at hand.  While Lucifer cannon can take out aliens in 1 hit, it takes forever to charge, so if you have even an ounce of decency ( [Z|R] Kory ftw) you can avoid it and take the human out between shots.  Yes, humans have a medistation because without it, they are unable to heal, and aliens are.  There is no s1 weapon for humans that can K.O a big alien, and every alien other than dretch takes atleast 2 hits to kill.  Learn to play, then complain.

[BlOw*Up]

Every month or so, a topic like this pops up.  Bullshit.

While humans have medkits, aliens have regeneration.  Medkits only heal once, which makes humans more dependent on having a base (or a repeater and medi) close at hand.  While Lucifer cannon can take out aliens in 1 hit, it takes forever to charge, so if you have even an ounce of decency ( [Z|R] Kory ftw) you can avoid it and take the human out between shots.  Yes, humans have a medistation because without it, they are unable to heal, and aliens are.  There is no s1 weapon for humans that can K.O a big alien, and every alien other than dretch takes atleast 2 hits to kill.  Learn to play, then complain.

Lets see human medkits heals like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 whilw alien regeneration heals 1....2....3....4....5 how awesome.
And you can get refil for medkits.
The problem with lucifer cannon is not how it takes to charge the point is it can take out adv goon while it doesnt take out armored human not to mention you can shoot 2x times on the ground close to you and not get killed.
Point is humans have far greater survivability then aliens armor decreses dmg alot + dodge.
And you mentioned there is no s1 weapon that can take  KO big alien yes there is nade.

[David]

Nade comes at s2.
I tried to read your post, I think it might be missing some vital meaning-altering punctuation.

[Calmarius]

The humans are overpowered when working in groups and a rushing in to your base in the first minute. And kill all drenches, builders eggs not letting anyone evolve at all. But this organized action is rare on public servers. Moreover when bigger advanced aliens appear in the hand of an experienced players due unique human actions humans are usually doomed.

I you suck a whole luci ball then you are unlucky. Its pretty easy to dodge the charged luci balls because they traval slower. It takes 3 second to charge. If you do it in front of an alien you are dead before able to release the charged shot.

[Thoth]

Bullshit.

^Indeed.

Even with the dumbed down a bit, it's still pretty damn useful after you learn to play. Once you get  or  , S1  are pretty easy to take down.

Humans have medistation at the beginning of the game which is s1 booster but without poison.
Humans also have medkits while aliens have regeneration but alien regeneration is slow while medkits can heal way faster and it is free and everybody has it.

Like everyone else said:  don't have regeneration and medic kit can only be used once. Oh and the "free to everybody," Aliens regeneration is free to all aliens (duh?).

a fully charged luci shot can take out a adv goon which has 250 hp but cannot take out armored human. Which means humans can take more damage then aliens not to mention bsuits which takes 4 slashes by tyrant to kill them.

Fully charged luci can take out a goon blah blah cry cry. It's called dodging buddy, if you can't take the human then retreat and let someone else take the kill.
This one is my favorite, any noob  can take out a bsuit, 4 slashes isn't that hard to get in, unless you are being attacked by a group.

[CorSair]

Also, we shouldn't forget the place where encounter pops up. For example:

Adv. Dragoon in tight corridor, without easy escape gets easily killed by lucifer cannon, yes. Unless the one who uses lucifer gets suprised or misses the shot (lucky!), you got 2,5 seconds to eliminate lcannon wielder. And 2 secs are enough if in close contact.

Tyrant in tight corridors are unpleasant sight in human team. Rants can wipe group of 3 armored humans quite easily, if they're equipped with pulse rifles, chainguns and such, rant survives most times. Unless rant screws it.

And regen depends mostly, if someone in your team is willing to evolve to basilisk and work as booster replacement for some time, and making booster, when you reach s2. And even the foward eggs can be crucial for regen. And what comes to medkit, you need to spare it as much as you can, especially in human team assault. And besides, creep through the wall, or even booster aura, makes human life difficult. Humans can't achieve that, can they? Aliens can move behind corner, regen near boost for few secs, then press on human base, repeats the retreat again, and again, and again, until human base is destroyed, or if they can take out booster, and defend it well. Humans need to build repeater, and medistation near alien base, to keep pressing alien base. And when many wounded humans try to get to medistation, it gets crowded, while aliens can spread around booster.

In shorter words: Aliens can heal anywhere, human only got one medkit shot, and need to get back base to heal.

Every month or so, a topic like this pops up.  Bullshit.
----
Learn to play, then complain.

Agreed.

[Meisseli]

Why would you compare teamkilling with a lucifer when aliens do not use the lucifer cannon? And furthermore, why compare goon with the most powerful weapon lucifer cannon, and not the most powerful alien tyrant? And it takes only 3 slashes or one charge to kill a bsuit with a rant.

I don't understand your point - humans rely on medistation, aliens on boosters, basilisks and creep healing. How is that unbalanced?

By the way destroying medi is a very effective tactic, humans can't heal, they can't do much against poison, and when the medi goes back up every single player from the human team will stand in the same spot - the medistation. Snipe it again and you get some 2-3 human kills while getting the medistation down again.

I would suggest you play more and get your facts straight since you're only making yourself look dumb.

[Cadynum]

Humans are overpowered, yes, but mostly because of other reasons than the ones you mentioned.

[c4]

Humans are overpowered, yes, but mostly because of other reasons than the ones you mentioned.

I blame n00bs

[superspirality]

I would suggest you play more and get your facts straight since you're only making yourself look dumb.

<3
Also, 1).

[geg_Ma3gau]

S1 and S2 are fairly ok, but S3 is broken. Any idiot can take a luci and kill with it, its impossible not to kill. Self damage is negligeble, humans can just spam floor under itself to kill mara/dretch/basilisks that come close without any dire consequences. 2 hit KO'd tyrant and 4 hit KO'd bsuit is pretty stupid since a) alien poses an excellent large target; b) he must get close to luci which is where it owns everything on sight. c)Humans can focus fire while aliens mostly TK/block each other if they try. Aliens can dodge it but thats it. If a luci user is half conscious he will own you the moment you get close. If you dont get close and dodge all the time, they kill your base.

Luci should be replaced with something that actually requires skill like MD, not "hold mouse button, release, watch if it kills something" skill.

[Lecavalier]

1  charge can kill a  . Just sayin'

[Asvarox]

The funny thing is that in most luci vs rant duels, rant almost always wins, unless luci guy is quite skilled and rant guy is amazed that he managed to earn 5 evos in single game.

[SlackerLinux]

1  charge can kill a  . Just sayin'

1  charge can kill . Just sayin'

[mooseberry]

1  charge can kill a  . Just sayin'

1  charge can kill . Just sayin'

1  can kill  Just sayin'

[BlOw*Up]

S1 and S2 are fairly ok, but S3 is broken. Any idiot can take a luci and kill with it, its impossible not to kill. Self damage is negligeble, humans can just spam floor under itself to kill mara/dretch/basilisks that come close without any dire consequences. 2 hit KO'd tyrant and 4 hit KO'd bsuit is pretty stupid since a) alien poses an excellent large target; b) he must get close to luci which is where it owns everything on sight. c)Humans can focus fire while aliens mostly TK/block each other if they try. Aliens can dodge it but thats it. If a luci user is half conscious he will own you the moment you get close. If you dont get close and dodge all the time, they kill your base.

Luci should be replaced with something that actually requires skill like MD, not "hold mouse button, release, watch if it kills something" skill.

That is what I was talking about finally someone who has some common sense.
The only reason why I have compared luci cannon which is s3 to adv goon who is s2 is because it can take out strongest s2 alien. but cannot take out s2 armored human.
And yes one charge can kill a bsuit but it doesn't change the fact that bsuit can take over 400 dmg while tyrant can take 350 dmg.
Humans can take more damage then aliens.
And 1 charged luci can kill almost everything within booster and also reactor has way more HP then OM.
Aliens have to melee a reactor which has more HP while OM is attacked by far range and has less HP that doesn't add up.
Also humans can fix its buildings with faster rate then alien building regeneration.

[Meisseli]

What in earth does your lucifer cannon teamkilling have to do with anything? The goal of the game is still not "try kill your teammates". Are you trying to kill your teammates often?

Really your arguments are just stupid. "X has less hp than Y, therefore X is worse". Does it really go like that? No. It's not about what damage or what HP that structure has compared to this one, it's how it works in reality. Aliens are more mobile, they regenerate, they don't rely on their base. Those are the reasons for the human base having stronger stats to compensate.

I urge you to get out from your stat sheets and actually play the game before voicing a badly justified opinion.

And, please. 3 tyrant chomps to kill a battlesuit. Or one single charge.

[BlOw*Up]

What in earth does your lucifer cannon teamkilling have to do with anything? The goal of the game is still not "try kill your teammates". Are you trying to kill your teammates often?

Really your arguments are just stupid. "X has less hp than Y, therefore X is worse". Does it really go like that? No. It's not about what damage or what HP that structure has compared to this one, it's how it works in reality. Aliens are more mobile, they regenerate, they don't rely on their base. Those are the reasons for the human base having stronger stats to compensate.

I urge you to get out from your stat sheets and actually play the game before voicing a badly justified opinion.

And, please. 3 tyrant chomps to kill a battlesuit. Or one single charge.

Are you unable to read?
Just asking.
What does lucifer cannon have to do with teamkilling?
Well nothing and I have never even said about teamkilling your teammates.
You see when you get the game you play it and test it to see how it works you know like balance and hit boxes like in QUake Live where head didn't had a hitbox which was later fixed would you play a game that sometimes it registers a hit and sometimes not?
The strongest s2 alien dies while s2 human doesnt (helmet + armor) thats the problem.
That also makes people who shoot with luci cannon bellow their feet spamming and killing aliens that are near them with slpash damage while not taking alot of damage.
As far as I know aliens are weaker then humans.
Yes aliens are more mobile and regenerate but humans take less damage + long range weapons + medkit.
So tell me what makes more sense for melee attackers to make more damage or for long range attackers to make less? I mean melee attackers must make more damage to kill or destroy something or range attackers make less damage to kill or destroy?
It should be the way around since melee attackers are LACKING range.
And you talk like aliens travel with light speed and regenerate like 50 hp in 1 second when most of them travel in average speed besides dretches who can't damage buildings at all and regenerate like 1 hp each second so if alien has 10 hp it takes about 1.30 minutes so I would not call that very special when in natural selection aliens regenerate 20-100 HP per second depends on which class you are.
And you talk about trample like it can kill a bsuit in the moment you start the tremple when in fact it takes a little while to kill it and + extra damage if you crush it against the wall but it doesn change the fact it is the same amout of damage as 4 slashes and yes its 4 not 3 test it in 1 on 1 when bsuits are unhurt and have 100 hp.

[Meisseli]

Stop testing it wrong. Hit only the head and you're good to go with 3 chomps. Do the math yourself: 150 (tyrant headshot damage) * 0,27 (battlesuit head modifier) = 40,5 rounded down to 40 damage. So, one slash does 40 damage to a battlesuit.

In fact aliens travel with enormous speeds when you learn to play. This is what I would suggest you to do, watch how good aliens play the game and soon you'll get the hang of it. Use a basilisk and you'll heal fast. Use a booster and you'll heal even faster!

It indeed does make sense that a goon kills an armoured human with 3 pounces while the human has to take multiple, up to 50 shots to kill a goon. And it indeed makes sense that the best weapon in the game is able to kill mere goons (which are only s2 weaponry). Otherwise staging up would not make any sense.

Also, what? Aliens deal full damage to humans. What is it that humans are taking less damage from?

And you talk about lucifer cannon like it can kill a goon at the moment you start the charging up when it fact it takes a little while to kill it!

[BlOw*Up]

Stop testing it wrong. Hit only the head and you're good to go with 3 chomps. Do the math yourself: 150 (tyrant headshot damage) * 0,27 (battlesuit head modifier) = 40,5 rounded down to 40 damage. So, one slash does 40 damage to a battlesuit.

In fact aliens travel with enormous speeds when you learn to play. This is what I would suggest you to do, watch how good aliens play the game and soon you'll get the hang of it. Use a basilisk and you'll heal fast. Use a booster and you'll heal even faster!

It indeed does make sense that a goon kills an armoured human with 3 pounces while the human has to take multiple, up to 50 shots to kill a goon. And it indeed makes sense that the best weapon in the game is able to kill mere goons (which are only s2 weaponry). Otherwise staging up would not make any sense.

Also, what? Aliens deal full damage to humans. What is it that humans are taking less damage from?

And you talk about lucifer cannon like it can kill a goon at the moment you start the charging up when it fact it takes a little while to kill it!

So many flaws with your argument that is just silly.
1.) Head slash is the most powerful attack right so like you said before 1 slash = 150 dmg without bsuit 3 slashes is 400 dmg right, So battle suit reduced damage way way way more then it should in fact all armor does. It still doesnt change the fact just because it reduces from 150 to 40 doesnt make a difference it still means you have dealt the same amout of damage as 400 dmg to unarmored human. Aliens dont have the armor so they take full damage and in tyrant's case its 350.

2.) Aliens can travel fast only with bunny hop because thank god its quake 3 engine however most beginners don't know about bunny hopping and I am talking about actual speed in game without engine tricks because you can travel fast with human too (bhops) but you will run out of stamina.

3.) It doesnt make sense that the best weapon in the game takes out strongest s2 aliens while it doesnt take out s2 human.
It doesn't make sense that melee attacker has to do more dmg as long range attacker.
And btw you have to charge goon pounce.

3.) Contradiction you said that bsuit reduces from 150 to 40 and then at the end you said "Also, what? Aliens deal full damage to humans. What is it that humans are taking less damage from?"
If that was the case bsuit would take 150 dmg instead of 40.

4.)Luci charge takes about roughly the same time as normal goon pounce and when you shoot below yourself you can kill anything around you (aliens) with splash damage while still alive and still able for combat.

[c4]

Learn to play aliens, and you'll see why theyve won more games on us1 than humans

[UniqPhoeniX]

You could multiply all alien class and buildable hps by 5 and human weapon & ret/tesla damages by 5, it would still take exactly the same amounts of bullets to kill aliens and thus the gameplay would barely change at all, just humans could kill each other 5x faster and aliens 5x slower. Stop comparing alien hps to humans hps, it's irrelevant. And 1 more player to tell you to go learn the game first. After 2 months if you have become a very good player people might take you seriously since you'll actually know what you are talking about.

[Pazuzu]

Screw the details. A picture is worth a thousand words:

[BlOw*Up]

You could multiply all alien class and buildable hps by 5 and human weapon & ret/tesla damages by 5, it would still take exactly the same amounts of bullets to kill aliens and thus the gameplay would barely change at all, just humans could kill each other 5x faster and aliens 5x slower. Stop comparing alien hps to humans hps, it's irrelevant. And 1 more player to tell you to go learn the game first. After 2 months if you have become a very good player people might take you seriously since you'll actually know what you are talking about.

It is not irrelevant.
I am not complaining because I cant play I am complaining because gloom and Natural Selection are more balanced then Tremulous.
In gloom with hatchling you can kill human in 1 shot is dark colored and maps are darkish in trem maps are light, dretch is very visible and kills human in 2 headshots..
Almost every alien can kill humans in 1 or 2 shots unless it is ranged weapon because they are melee ranged.

Now in tremulous melee attackers have to make more hits in order to kill a human which is silly.
So instead of tremulous being unique game it looks like quake 3 only 1 team has gauntlets while others normal weapons.
But to make things worse the team with weapons have red armor while team with gauntlets have no armor.
In every game gloom, natural selection melee attackers make way more dmg and armor doesn't reduce from 150 to 40 more like from 150 to 90.
And btw why would I improve aliens hp's and then also improve human rets, tesla dmg?
How about just reducing the armor?
This game is silly a s2 human with flamer killing all aliens infront of him while another s2 human who is also infront of him stays alive or noob luci spammers shooting at his teamates charged bolts killing goon and mara around it while his teamates survive its retarded.
I thought tremulous is fps/rts hybrid but all I can see is FPS no strategy needed its quake.
Just rush and spray and pray.

And lol@stats

I can bring the stats in one team you have Counter Terrorists (SK) and in other Terrorirsts (some noob players) and that will be the proof that CT's are overpowered in CS right?
Stats are just that aliens have better players nothing more.

[CorSair]

I see that this thread is more about trolling than giving deep perspective and constructive criticism about Tremulous.

I fail to see, where this actually points to. You confuse me with this.

It is not irrelevant.
I am not complaining because I cant play I am complaining because gloom and Natural Selection are more balanced then Tremulous.

I don't know these, and I don't comment about which game is balanced, Tremulous, Natural Selection or Gloom. Maybe someone can enlighten more to this. But my final word:
Tremulous is what it is.

BTW:

So instead of tremulous being unique game it looks like quake 3 only 1 team has gauntlets while others normal weapons.
But to make things worse the team with weapons have red armor while team with gauntlets have no armor.

Stupid comparison. Actually, so stupid, that I want this topic to be flamed at.

[c4]

Learn to play the game, bro.

[Haraldx]

A can kill easily a  .
A luci can kill easily a  and even more easily all other aliens in 1 hit.
A needs to chomp much to kill a 
A can always use pounce, but it's hard in wide spaces and easy to miss.
A needs to slice 3 times to kill 
A is useless if 
A can kill  in 2 head bites, but it's hard and enemy has a gun and go in groups
A can PwN  AND  , but not 
A can't hide in his house anymore. 
2  can destroy  and all other that surrounds it.


There, some facts. I have no idea what this proves but oh well, the life is a real mess. Thanks!

[c4]

Basi is never useless and a grenade can't kill a rant

[BlOw*Up]

I see that this thread is more about trolling than giving deep perspective and constructive criticism about Tremulous.

I fail to see, where this actually points to. You confuse me with this.

It is not irrelevant.
I am not complaining because I cant play I am complaining because gloom and Natural Selection are more balanced then Tremulous.

I don't know these, and I don't comment about which game is balanced, Tremulous, Natural Selection or Gloom. Maybe someone can enlighten more to this. But my final word:
Tremulous is what it is.

BTW:

So instead of tremulous being unique game it looks like quake 3 only 1 team has gauntlets while others normal weapons.
But to make things worse the team with weapons have red armor while team with gauntlets have no armor.

Stupid comparison. Actually, so stupid, that I want this topic to be flamed at.

I gave the deep perspective 10000 of times but since you don't know what that means so it is stupid to respond to every single time.
In any game knife or anything melee based weapon kills a player very fast because it is melee based in gloom you can claw almost any player in one hit just like in COD 1 bash can take out a player when gun needs few shots unless rifles which make up by slow reload.
In natural selection you have to kill players in the similar fashion like in tremulous few hits or more if the guy is having armor or heavy armor BUT aliens have armor and high HP's Onos which is the most powerful alien in NS has 950 HP and 900 Armor while tyrant has 350 and Onos also needs 3 hits to take out heavy armor guy or 1 hit if he uses devour which eats it victim and it is fun picture too you see stomach on your screen while onos devours you.

Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.

In tremulous you build something other then that you rush get kills for EVO or credits.
Now if you have ever played Natural Selection you start a game, build resource towers on strategic locations, build various buildings for various upgrades so the game really has strategic element.
Also instead of just point & click for making buildings you have to go to the building and press use key to build.

If you don't know about NS then check youtube.
Humans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIPdBn5hK9Y
Aliens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a51yLliQNWM

This is FPS/RTS
Trem is like quake.