Things we want for 1.2

[freezway]

Firstly, I would like to say that:
Yes, I know, sounds need to be done first. I've been kinda slacking on that now that school is back. BUT, here are a few things I want in 1.2:

1. kick up the 1k poly max
2. new alien models (TYRANT and BASI need them) and skins (rant and goon reallllly need them)
3. refractive/reflective water (see "cube 2"'s style of water)

Yeah, thats all I had to say, now to my history paper due tomorrow...

[Saliva]

Sounds good but I believe the most simply want 1.2 released. Improvements like that can wait.

[freezway]

the 1k poly count shouldn't be too hard.

[jm82792]

Do you know how to code and work with the current game engine?
I have a strange feeling it would take a lot of time to "just" implement a higher polycount.

[gimhael]

You can easily raise the polycount to 1001:

Code: [Select]

diff -r f02c7f3a515a src/qcommon/qfiles.h
--- a/src/qcommon/qfiles.h Sun May 30 04:35:45 2010 +0000
+++ b/src/qcommon/qfiles.h Fri Nov 05 07:58:12 2010 +0100
@@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
 #endif
 
 // surface geometry should not exceed these limits
-#define SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES 1000
+#define SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES 1001
 #define SHADER_MAX_INDEXES (6*SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES)
 
 

Technically that's all required, but Tremulous uses the renderer from ioquake3 and ioquake3 does not want to introduce patches that encourage mappers/modelers to create stuff that does not run on the original ID quake 3 engine. There has been a discussion about raising the limit for the number of lightmaps in a level and it has been rejected because ID quake 3 could not handle it.

[Drag222]

- Higher resolution texture
- Normal maps and stuff like that support
- as you sais higher polycount
- stuff to allow plenty buildings to be created, without dropping fps (for unlimited buildpoints servers)
- beter physics for the grenade (hell have you ever seen a grenade bounce this way?)
- better UI

So all in all, better GFX engine, even if keeping the same, at least updating it
Look at warsow, it looks very nice while based on some quake engine

[Firstinaction]

All of stannums guns in 1.2 and his animations----   http://janvanderweg.com/pics/tremulous/

[CATAHA]

New engine? Yes, sweet dreams. =\

[freezway]

The devs have pretty much said no new engine for 1.2.

[CATAHA]

Its sadly that switching to new engine involving recompilation of client. So it cant be done by simple qvms and stuff. But with qvm you still can do a lot of changes, for example different footsteps for surfaces, as we released in Instagib mod. I hope 1.2 will be at least released so we can improve it as far as we can.

[Haraldx]

Firstly, I would like to say that:
Yes, I know, sounds need to be done first. I've been kinda slacking on that now that school is back. BUT, here are a few things I want in 1.2:

1. kick up the 1k poly max - Yeah, 1k is pretty harsh. I know some 1998 game that has the same amount of poly maximum.
2. new alien models (TYRANT and BASI need them) and skins (rant and goon reallllly need them) - Maybe a little more detailed, but nothing more, I like it how it is.
3. refractive/reflective water (see "cube 2"'s style of water) - How many maps have water in Trem? I think about 3 and none of them are official.

Yeah, thats all I had to say, now to my history paper due tomorrow...

Things we want for 1.2

I think you meant "I".

[Pazuzu]

- Normal maps and stuff like that support

I agree with this...

- as you sais higher polycount
- stuff to allow plenty buildings to be created, without dropping fps (for unlimited buildpoints servers)

...but not this. More buildables = more polygons = lower FPS, and raising the polycount won't help. That's just how engines work- the more items there are to render, the slower they'll render. And increasing the polycount will only make it worse. I mean, my computer can handle a higher polycount, but if you're noticing slowdowns, yours probably can't.

[CATAHA]

3. refractive/reflective water (see "cube 2"'s style of water) - How many maps have water in Trem? I think about 3 and none of them are official.

May be so few maps 'caus current water just ruining visual? Not really, you still can make good enough water, but with attractive water mappers whould use it not so rarely.

[Meisseli]

3. refractive/reflective water (see "cube 2"'s style of water) - How many maps have water in Trem? I think about 3 and none of them are official.

May be so few maps 'caus current water just ruining visual? Not really, you still can make good enough water, but with attractive water mappers whould use it not so rarely.

Water's really horrible anyways as aliens are considerably slowed down in it and can't use any of their special movement techniques like pounce, wallwalk, charge etc. Try beat a lasgunner in water!

[Lecavalier]

I want basi to have a jaw. ...



... and a great big overbite  

[CATAHA]

Water's really horrible anyways as aliens are considerably slowed down in it and can't use any of their special movement techniques like pounce, wallwalk, charge etc. Try beat a lasgunner in water!

You dont need make water so deep always. =) And, afaik you can wallwalk under water. =)

[Pazuzu]

I want basi to have a jaw. ...

[img]

... and a great big overbite  

Hm... I might try that. It'll probably suck and I probably won't post it, but I need the practice in Blender.

[Meisseli]

Water's really horrible anyways as aliens are considerably slowed down in it and can't use any of their special movement techniques like pounce, wallwalk, charge etc. Try beat a lasgunner in water!

You dont need make water so deep always. =) And, afaik you can wallwalk under water. =)

Yeah, if I'd make water I'd use it only for better visuals (just a little bit deeper than a dretch's size). But then again you could just use the water texture but not the actual effect for it (I'm no mapper so I don't actually know how things work).

[CATAHA]

Only texture without 'surfaceparm water' gonna cause 'solid' water effect. no water sounds, looking like solid plate with moving texture on it.

[superspirality]

And, afaik you can wallwalk under water. =)

Well, you can fire the flamer and reload energy weapons underwater which is also not adding to the realism.
To get serious, that won't help much as the movements are still slowed down including wallwalk.

[jm82792]

Well realistically with hacking up code and touching the code much we can:


Do high res textures(for the aliens I'd blow them up and brush in more detail using Blender's texture painting),
I've tried but Trem rejects them have an idea why!?!?!?!?

More and better animations since they aren't good. I can animate(I'm amateur but I can!), but will have no part in trying to get them into trem as it sounds like a hair ripping mess.

New 1K poly count Building Models(for the people who have slow computers they can stick with the old ones!), should be very easy modeling(honestly first19 could, I can etc) them. However it will "interesting" on how to get the models, animations and textures all into trem.  I can easily model and texture, and animate the buildings. But won't rip my hair out to get them in.


Possibly(involves coding) there is a way on the mapper side of things to get better light map baking because the current one on max quality is a complete joke.

Maybe crank up or redo the partial effects for more particles, higher res textures for the particles and such.
Shouldn't be terribly hard, but you need to mess with the code to control the emissions and reaction of the particles.

Multilayer textures because nobody uses them, well not much anyways.

That's all I can get off the top of my head

[Pazuzu]

I can model, but I'll take a while to get the exporter up and running. Feel free to just ignore me, though, I've got tons of work and probably won't get anything done. If I make anything, I'll post screenshots.

[Odin]

1. kick up the 1k poly max

Here's an idea: try splitting your model into multiple parts.

I know I know, magic right?

[c4]

Tremulous is tremulous because of the fantastic engine it runs on.  Look, the thing is more than a decade old, and still running the game.  Any computer using a 10 year old chipset would have failed 5 years ago unless it was locked in a museum.

Map detail can be extremely high if mappers use high res textures.  My wip is using 512 x 512 for all textures. 

Polycount doesnt matter that much.  Keep it at 1000 and learn to texture.

The animations are fine.  Too many would make for terrible eyesores with aliens contorting left and right.

Water: i believe it would be possible to make a surfaceparm water that had a mirror effect on it.  As for gameplay undrwater, don't rely on it heavily in your map.  It really is more effective as eyecandy.

The game already has new models in 1.2.  Case closed

Believe it ir not, you all complain about the engine, but I don't see you trying to port trem to xreal or iw...until you have released a game that is played worldwide by thousands of players, i don't believe you can talk. 

[freezway]

I understand where your coming from, but if the community were to create high res/poly models/textures, why not let users choose?

[jm82792]

Tremulous is tremulous because of the fantastic engine it runs on.  Look, the thing is more than a decade old, and still running the game.  Any computer using a 10 year old chipset would have failed 5 years ago unless it was locked in a museum.

Map detail can be extremely high if mappers use high res textures.  My wip is using 512 x 512 for all textures. 

Polycount doesnt matter that much.  Keep it at 1000 and learn to texture.

The animations are fine.  Too many would make for terrible eyesores with aliens contorting left and right.

Water: i believe it would be possible to make a surfaceparm water that had a mirror effect on it.  As for gameplay undrwater, don't rely on it heavily in your map.  It really is more effective as eyecandy.

The game already has new models in 1.2.  Case closed

Believe it ir not, you all complain about the engine, but I don't see you trying to port trem to xreal or iw...until you have released a game that is played worldwide by thousands of players, i don't believe you can talk. 

Yes I understand. Messing with a old game engine that's sort of a bubble gum and paper clip creation isn't easy.

[Tremulant]

Yes I understand. Messing with a old game engine that's sort of a bubble gum and paper clip creation isn't easy.

I'm not sure you quite grasped the point he was trying to make, the point is that you're a bunch of idiots who are convinced that the only way to improve the look of tremulous is to switch to a modern engine so you can avoid learning to produce decent quality low-poly models.
 Go ahead and create the new models and textures you want, if they're good enough maybe you'll be able to convince the devs to make a future shift to xreal, or maybe you could fork if you find your ability to produce high quality models outstrips the ability or inclination of devs to consider their use.

Trem is highly unlikely to switch to an engine with higher minimum requirements in the near future, or break compatibility with the existing engine for the sake of some high-poly models, there's plenty of room for improvement within the current poly limit, if urban terror's anything to go by, but i do expect a noticeable drop in performance.

disclaimer: i know buggerall about modelling or how badly cobbled together the ioq3 engine is.

[c4]

Go ahead.  Make new models.  Put them in a pk3 file available for download.  Then people can choose.

[CATAHA]

Water: i believe it would be possible to make a surfaceparm water that had a mirror effect on it.  As for gameplay undrwater, don't rely on it heavily in your map.  It really is more effective as eyecandy.

Anyway it leading ut to make changes in render part of engine and some other parts. For some reason im sure full switching to xreal (for example) much easier than making 'very own' code. And you really think that devs gonna do this? I think NO. =) Our coder (he maked many improvements on our server and he our official coder of InstaGib mod) checked problem and told me that he cant improve visuals without changing client side. Until this client side is not distributing officially, its useless. And i dont think that devs gonna include code from community modmakers. =\

Trem is highly unlikely to switch to an engine with higher minimum requirements in the near future, or break compatibility with the existing engine for the sake of some high-poly models, there's plenty of room for improvement within the current poly limit, if urban terror's anything to go by, but i do expect a noticeable drop in performance

In most cases xreal running faster than ioQ3. You dont urgently need switch to high-poly md5 models and stuff right after changing game engine, but possibility of changing is great.

[Tremulant]

Trem is highly unlikely to switch to an engine with higher minimum requirements in the near future, or break compatibility with the existing engine for the sake of some high-poly models, there's plenty of room for improvement within the current poly limit, if urban terror's anything to go by, but i do expect a noticeable drop in performance

In most cases xreal running faster than ioQ3. You dont urgently need switch to high-poly md5 models and stuff right after changing game engine, but possibility of changing is great.

xreal runs faster on older hardware and machines with low-end graphics? if not, that's still upping the minimum requirements. If you don't have the models there seems to be little point in switching, trem isn't even pushing the limits of ioq3 yet, is it?
Please top fixating on the awesomeness of new engines and just let the devs get 1.2 out based on the existing one.