Author Topic: Another day, another abuse thread.  (Read 8514 times)

ziplocpeople

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Another day, another abuse thread.
« on: January 08, 2011, 11:44:45 pm »
There's been an awful lot of abuse threads being made lately, and to point out the obvious: they've gone absolutely nowhere.
So I figured I'd make a post explaining why they got nowhere, what the word "abuse" actually means (there seems to be much confusion with this word,) and some other miscellaneous observations.

First off, let's define abuse: Improper treatment or usage; application to a wrong or bad purpose; misuse; perversion.
Now, in terms of abuse in Tremulous, let's make it more simple: Unwarranted, overuse/misuse of administrative powers.

Now with that being defined, I'll now explain why these threads don't go anywhere:
1) More times than not, the people posting aren't liked at all by most, if not all admins in general- They have a bias due to how you've previously acted.
2) Very often, the people yelling abuse have the inability to remain serious. I'd like to use this http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=14844.msg214372#msg214372 as a prime example. Posts like this only hurt the original cause, making it look more idiotic regardless of how valid the topic was originally.
3) If you were punished for a reason that is valid (even if it's debatable,) but you feel your punishment was too extreme don't start yelling "TAKE ADMIN AWAY NOW!!1!" Instead try something more along the lines of constructive criticism, like this "I really don't agree with your actions, doing [whatever] was too extreme, in the future could you please give a more clear warning and maybe do [something else] instead." -- Trust me, you'll look a lot better that way.
4) Presenting your argument isn't making your text bigger than those whom oppose you, rather you should actually try thinking out your posts- instead of the all too prevalent post the same thing differently in capslock over and over again.

To admins:
1) Sometimes I've seen punishments that are a bit harsh, for the sake of lowering the drama count be sure to have a clear head while using your admin powers- I'd personally recommend using admin commands only when necessary, or for the betterment of the server in general- Extensive punishments lead to drama.
2) Be sure to give clear warnings, unless of course it's something big like a decon, basenade, mass-tk, etc. This will hopefully prevent the need for punishment to begin with, and if you do end up using /mute /kick or /ban then at least you can defend yourself better on the forums.
3) As stated in the rules, use common sense.

Finally: Everyone, just keep in mind it's a game. Have fun, but not at others' expense. Don't be an ass to somebody just because you don't like them. If you get mad, take a short break, come back, and shoot the aliens (or of course eat the humans.)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 01:05:41 am by ziplocpeople »
Quote from: Sir|Periculosus
yes yes spam a little more and heyll understand! yes yes
मैं स्पैम बॉट समर्थन
मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन
~The Medistation

swamp-cecil

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2011, 12:19:11 am »
Lock and Sticky.
these are stupid suggestions, don't even waste our time.
I don't like your negative attitude.

Lecavalier

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2011, 12:24:25 am »
This is far too reasonable; nobody will buy it.
I wanted you to see me before I killed you.

Pazuzu

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2011, 12:42:41 am »
+1

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

Undeference

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2011, 04:01:10 am »
Quote
if you do end up using /mute /kick or /ban then at least you can defend yourself better on the forums.
Admins are people who are trusted not to misuse their power too much, so the onus is almost always on the complainer to show wrong. Making admins defend every action is absurd and history has shown that it is often better not to respond.

Part of the problem is that a lot of forum users are not helpful in any way and only serve to create drama. Others may not be after drama so much as getting the highest unrelated-post counts. Then there is the fact that most complaints are not actionable because they are either about abstract concepts ("there has been so much abuse that I won't even bother to mention specific instances") or because they provide no verifiable evidence. This inevitably leads to trolling and thread derailment, and it becomes even harder for the powers that be to find instances of questionable/malicious/irresponsible actions by admins.

While ideally some kind of standard could be followed, I doubt the possibleness (that is now a word) of that on this forum.
Need help? Ask intelligently. Please share solutions you find.

Thats what we need, helpful players, not more powerful admins.

ziplocpeople

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 05:01:40 am »
Admins are people who are trusted not to misuse their power too much, so the onus is almost always on the complainer to show wrong. Making admins defend every action is absurd and history has shown that it is often better not to respond.

Part of the problem is that a lot of forum users are not helpful in any way and only serve to create drama. Others may not be after drama so much as getting the highest unrelated-post counts. Then there is the fact that most complaints are not actionable because they are either about abstract concepts ("there has been so much abuse that I won't even bother to mention specific instances") or because they provide no verifiable evidence. This inevitably leads to trolling and thread derailment, and it becomes even harder for the powers that be to find instances of questionable/malicious/irresponsible actions by admins.

While ideally some kind of standard could be followed, I doubt the possibleness (that is now a word) of that on this forum.
With all due respect... Of course Admins are to be well trusted, and they shouldn't have to defend every little thing they do- That was more of a *just in case* type thing (also, I really don't understand what you're getting at with that response in general, it's almost like you're saying don't warn about stuff though, I could be reading into it too much.) As for the rest of what you said, uh well: That's pretty much the reason why I made this post: Lower the Drama, increase relevant content, decrease chances of derailment/trollfests (which would be really nice if there ever was a legitimate case of abuse.)

I really don't get the point to anything you've said... It just seems (to me, anyways) that you summarized the nature of the Tremulous forums.

~The Medistation
Quote from: Sir|Periculosus
yes yes spam a little more and heyll understand! yes yes
मैं स्पैम बॉट समर्थन
मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन
~The Medistation

Tremulant

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 01:25:21 pm »
Extensive punishments lead to drama.
In the short term, yes, and that drama leads to more punishment, but when the drama dies down you seem to end up with reduced levels of spam and generally improved behaviour.
my knees by my face and my ass is being hammered

David

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2011, 02:16:26 pm »
IMO the mods should get a system of deleting all unneeded posts in abuse threads, and hitting people who don't learn.

"Unneeded" in this case would mean anything that's not adding new evidence, so 99% of current posts.

Also just locking all the useless complains with a link to this / a new FAQ could help.
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I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
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janev

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2011, 03:34:07 pm »
Stupidity Is A Capital Offense.

I support cruel and unusual punishment.
Author of "The quick beginner's guide to playing tremulous"
Founding member of the "undefeated in clanwars since 2006" club and narcissist extraordinaire.


"Your quote-tower trolling reminds me of two dogs fighting over a piece of poo." [c] Ingar

ziplocpeople

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 07:21:16 pm »
Extensive punishments lead to drama.
In the short term, yes, and that drama leads to more punishment, but when the drama dies down you seem to end up with reduced levels of spam and generally improved behaviour.
Key word being "extensive." Say for example someone's being a dick and feeding intentionally, I'm not going to give them a 14 day ban, I'd go with a few days max- depending on exactly how badly they were acting (unless of course they'd done other things/are repeat offenders, then I'd consider harder punishments.)
Quote from: Sir|Periculosus
yes yes spam a little more and heyll understand! yes yes
मैं स्पैम बॉट समर्थन
मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन
~The Medistation

SirDude

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 08:55:14 pm »
i rarely call for a admins power to be removed unless its true abse.

i'd say a half-5 hour ban would be the best in most cases, extreme incidences might call for a 1 or 2 dya ban but those are rare. hell i was blocking people and got a 2 day ban.


I say only admins and people who actually have something important to say should be allowed to comment.

Qrntz

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 10:28:18 pm »
I say only admins and people who actually have something important to say should be allowed to comment.
Contradicting yourself ain't the way to go. :-\

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

SirDude

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 10:44:34 pm »
I say only admins and people who actually have something important to say should be allowed to comment.
Contradicting yourself ain't the way to go. :-\

Howso?

ziplocpeople

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 11:51:58 pm »
I say only admins and people who actually have something important to say should be allowed to comment.
Contradicting yourself ain't the way to go. :-\

Howso?
Quote
only [...] people who actually have something important to say should be allowed to comment
Quote from: Sir|Periculosus
yes yes spam a little more and heyll understand! yes yes
मैं स्पैम बॉट समर्थन
मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन
~The Medistation

SirDude

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 12:04:19 am »
Is this a "admin abuse" thread? no this is a thread about admin abuse, making this thread more of a opinion based one.

Lecavalier

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 12:05:33 am »
Is this a "admin abuse" thread? no this is a thread about admin abuse
I agree with this statement.
I wanted you to see me before I killed you.

c4

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 01:55:37 am »
Is this a "admin abuse" thread? no this is a thread about admin abuse
I agree with this statement.

No, this is a thread explaining why people calling abuse are all liars and shouldn't be taken seriously.
eh, i prefer gregorian.net chat better than this. NO download and its LIVE!
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Lecavalier

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 02:08:33 am »
Is this a "admin abuse" thread? no this is a thread about admin abuse
I agree with this statement.

No, this is a thread explaining why people calling abuse are all liars and shouldn't be taken seriously.
err.. that's not quite what I meant  :angel:
I wanted you to see me before I killed you.

ziplocpeople

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Re: Another day, another abuse thread.
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 04:36:31 am »
Is this a "admin abuse" thread? no this is a thread about admin abuse
I agree with this statement.

No, this is a thread explaining why people calling abuse are all liars and shouldn't be taken seriously.
You didn't even read my fucking post did you? If you did you'd know I explained how to be taken seriously, and not look like somebody who jumps into a thread without reading anything, derailing from the topic at hand, and turning it into a damned trollfest. Honestly Duck I'd expect more from you, I'm not sure what happened while you were gone- but you'd really fit in with a bunch of Sir members right now (no offence to the Sir members that I actually like.)

And if you've noticed, I don't tend to swear on the forums. You really know how to get someone mad, Duck.
Next time I make a post trying to help people, remind me not to tell you about it.
Quote from: Sir|Periculosus
yes yes spam a little more and heyll understand! yes yes
मैं स्पैम बॉट समर्थन
मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन
~The Medistation