Disable human dodge backwards?

[Heli]

Disabling backward dodge is useless since there's practically no additional delay in turning your mouse 90° thus making a sideward dodge.

except, you know, you have to stop shooting the alien.

I think this is a good point.  I'm not for disabling dodge at all - I think it is important in balance.  I just think backward dodge is sort of ridiculous and inbalance especially vs s1 aliens.  Even at s3 though, it is sort of ridiculous when you have a charging rant that can't hit a bsuit because it is bunny hopping backwards.  In 4 backwards hops, a bsuit with a good weapon can take out a charging rant.  Some options I've been thinking about:
1) Make dodge cost twice as much energy as it does now
2) Make dodge cost twice as much energy for backward leaps (2 backward hops max would at least be somewhat more reasonable)
3) Disable backward leaps

[OhaiReapd]

I'd be all for increasing energy costs for dodge. Its ridiculous that dodge costs the same as jump, but you get farther movement.

[kharnov]

Keep full dodge for naked humans.

-25% move distance for light armor.

-25% move distance for jetpack/battpack.

Either -75% move distance for battlesuits, or no dodge at all. Battlesuits can't even crouch.

[OhaiReapd]

Keep full dodge for naked humans.

-25% move distance for light armor.

-25% move distance for jetpack/battpack.

Either -75% move distance for battlesuits, or no dodge at all. Battlesuits can't even crouch.

This is even better. Thank you kharnov. <3

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Disabling backward dodge is useless since there's practically no additional delay in turning your mouse 90° thus making a sideward dodge.

except, you know, you have to stop shooting the alien.

Oh, do I have to make a recording of some sort or should you try for yourself how much that delay is, making you unable to score perhaps even two to three rifle shots!

two or three rifle shots can mean life or death.  but it seems armor does not moify dodge, based on recent comments.  I would be satisfied with that change.  after all, rants can't jump for shit, why should bsuits?

[Ripple]

Disabling backward dodge is useless since there's practically no additional delay in turning your mouse 90° thus making a sideward dodge.

except, you know, you have to stop shooting the alien.

Oh, do I have to make a recording of some sort or should you try for yourself how much that delay is, making you unable to score perhaps even two to three rifle shots!

I was gonna say, just cus you're a good player Meisseli doesn't mean that this doesn't affect beginner/average players. We're not all hardcore.

Anyway, "smaller" things like map awareness and team tactics are much more effective at keeping you alive than dodge.

[Heli]

Keep full dodge for naked humans.

-25% move distance for light armor.

-25% move distance for jetpack/battpack.

Either -75% move distance for battlesuits, or no dodge at all. Battlesuits can't even crouch.

I like this.
Another idea - instead of changing move distance, perhaps it costs that much more energy to dodge?

[OhaiReapd]

Didn't you just say that in an earlier post? But, yes I think both of these could be implemented. A slight energy cost increase and a movement hindrance for armor.

[jm82792]

If this game was realistic at all it wouldn't be fun.
Running with chainguns? Perfect precise movement?

[OhaiReapd]

If this game was realistic at all it wouldn't be fun.
Running with chainguns? Perfect precise movement?

Refer to the earlier post by Cadymum.

[Heli]

If this game was realistic at all it wouldn't be fun.
Running with chainguns? Perfect precise movement?

What does that have to do with balancing?

[Dracone]

I was gonna say, just cus you're a good player Meisseli doesn't mean that this doesn't affect beginner/average players. We're not all hardcore.

Anyway, "smaller" things like map awareness and team tactics are much more effective at keeping you alive than dodge.

The best players have the most valuable opinions on shit like this. When things are being fixed up or created that are possibly in the area of impact from skill, they should be made from the point of "what could someone really skilled do with this." Not "well someone bad can't abuse this so it's ok."

Unskilled players' opinions are most valuable in making the game more accessible but that's about it. My opinion obviously, just so I don't come across as a game elitist.

[OhaiReapd]

I was gonna say, just cus you're a good player Meisseli doesn't mean that this doesn't affect beginner/average players. We're not all hardcore.

Anyway, "smaller" things like map awareness and team tactics are much more effective at keeping you alive than dodge.

The best players have the most valuable opinions on shit like this. When things are being fixed up or created that are possibly in the area of impact from skill, they should be made from the point of "what could someone really skilled do with this." Not "well someone bad can't abuse this so it's ok."

Unskilled players' opinions are most valuable in making the game more accessible but that's about it. My opinion obviously, just so I don't come across as a game elitist.

I agree, which is probably why no one likes me on here.

[Celestial_Rage]

> I agree, which is probably why no one likes me on here.

No one (I think) dislikes you because you suck at trem. It has more to do with your personality and useless (but often humorous) posts.

[OhaiReapd]

> I agree, which is probably why no one likes me on here.

No one (I think) dislikes you because you suck at trem. It has more to do with your personality and useless (but often humorous) posts.

No, its the fact that I have an opinion and this is teh trem forumz. Is it funny because I try to be funny or is it because I'm making a fool of myself. (Pick the second)

[Celestial_Rage]

The latter.

[jm82792]

Sorry I tend to skim stuff.
Anyways GREAT Idea, make a ratio as was mentioned that uses stamina depending on what's held and such.

[Tremulant]

> I agree, which is probably why no one likes me on here.

No one (I think) dislikes you because you suck at trem. It has more to do with your personality and useless (but often humorous) posts.

No, its the fact that I have an opinion and this is teh trem forumz. Is it funny because I try to be funny or is it because I'm making a fool of myself. (Pick the second)

No, it really is mostly to do with the fact that you're an argumentative, incoherent, deeply arrogant and inexplicably elitist retard.

[OhaiReapd]

> I agree, which is probably why no one likes me on here.

No one (I think) dislikes you because you suck at trem. It has more to do with your personality and useless (but often humorous) posts.

No, its the fact that I have an opinion and this is teh trem forumz. Is it funny because I try to be funny or is it because I'm making a fool of myself. (Pick the second)

No, it really is mostly to do with the fact that you're an argumentative, incoherent, deeply arrogant and inexplicably elitist retard.

I don't know how I'm elitist or arrogant. I know I tend to be incoherent and I am slightly retarded. But ok.

And I'm sorry if I come across that way. I am very opinionated and I tend to have a "reason" for it, even if I can't explain it properly.

[Heli]

Aaaanyway, just so we don't turn this into a flame war, I think we have said what needs to be said about dodge balancing on this thread.  It sounds like there is a lot of support for some sort of modifications to prevent bunny hopping - either in the form of more energy required to dodge or reducing the range of dodge.

Now that we've had our say, we can leave it up to Norf and his statistics to decide what is balanced.

Norf - whether you decide to go with any ideas here or not, thank you for your consideration.

[Ripple]

The best players have the most valuable opinions on shit like this. When things are being fixed up or created that are possibly in the area of impact from skill, they should be made from the point of "what could someone really skilled do with this." Not "well someone bad can't abuse this so it's ok."

Unskilled players' opinions are most valuable in making the game more accessible but that's about it. My opinion obviously, just so I don't come across as a game elitist.

Okaaaay, but I was under the impression that balancing was done for the lowest common denominator. Otherwise scrims/clan matches wouldn't be as broken as they are.

FIN

Aaaanyway, just so we don't turn this into a flame war, I think we have said what needs to be said about dodge balancing on this thread.  It sounds like there is a lot of support for some sort of modifications to prevent bunny hopping - either in the form of more energy required to dodge or reducing the range of dodge.

Now that we've had our say, we can leave it up to Norf and his statistics to decide what is balanced.

Norf - whether you decide to go with any ideas here or not, thank you for your consideration.

[Tremulant]

Otherwise scrims/clan matches wouldn't be as broken as they are.

Just out of interest, how broken are they?

Now that we've had our say, we can must leave it up to Norf and his statistics to decide what is balanced.

Remember, if you just completely refuse to utilise dodge then your stats wont help to demonstrate how OP you feel it is, bind dodge today and show everyone just how god-like it can make you!

[jm82792]

Bind dodge is an unused mouse button.
Works great.

[OhaiReapd]

Bind dodge is an unused mouse button.
Works great.

Yes rebuttal is yes.

[jm82792]

Whoops crap typing....
Yeah bind dodge to unused mouse button, then it's always used.

[sakathor]

Keep full dodge for naked humans.

-25% move distance for light armor.

-25% move distance for jetpack/battpack.

Either -75% move distance for battlesuits, or no dodge at all. Battlesuits can't even crouch.

This is a great idea

[OhaiReapd]

Whoops crap typing....
Yeah bind dodge to unused mouse button, then it's always used.

I can't bind it to an unused mouse button though. I have all useful buttons bound and I won't go out of my way to piss people off. I have "messagemode" for that.

[Meisseli]

Dodge isn't a problem at all except for dretches. All other aliens have enough mobility to reach dodging humans very well. It is though one of the main reasons the dretch currently sucks so much: it would be much better to reverse what was suggested. It doesn't make much sense nor is it good nerfing humans as they progress in stages, you're meant to become more powerful and get bonuses from advancing stages. For example having no dodge for nakeds, and making light armour/battlesuit give you the ability would work.

[OhaiReapd]

Dodge isn't a problem at all except for dretches. All other aliens have enough mobility to reach dodging humans very well. It is though one of the main reasons the dretch currently sucks so much: it would be much better to reverse what was suggested. It doesn't make much sense nor is it good nerfing humans as they progress in stages, you're meant to become more powerful and get bonuses from advancing stages. For example having no dodge for nakeds, and making light armour/battlesuit give you the ability would work.

Love this except for bsuit. Maybe another ability would make more sense. I mean, rants don't earn amazing hops, they earn charge. Why should a heavy ass bsuit have more hops than a rant?

[Tremulant]

Dodge isn't a problem at all except for dretches. All other aliens have enough mobility to reach dodging humans very well. It is though one of the main reasons the dretch currently sucks so much: it would be much better to reverse what was suggested. It doesn't make much sense nor is it good nerfing humans as they progress in stages, you're meant to become more powerful and get bonuses from advancing stages. For example having no dodge for nakeds, and making light armour/battlesuit give you the ability would work.

Love this except for bsuit.

bsuit's the only thing it makes sense with, really. Yes it makes sense for upgrades to improve a player's abilities, but logically(and logic and realism are important, right?) i can see no reason why Light armour and a helmet would allow a human to move faster.

Why should a heavy ass bsuit have more hops than a rant?

Because it's a high-tech self-powered exoskeletal battlesuit...