Tremulous 2?

[rotacak]

Thanks to current license anyone can sell really your work (not something created from scratch by someone else) without any profit for you. That is ok? Why?

The fact that it can be sold doesn't mean it is sold. Why would anyone buy it when they can download it for nothing?

There already was some examples on Tesco and Apple store. But that does not matter, it is allowed to earn money on it.

I think you're mixing up copyright and trademark law. It's highly unlikely that a dictionary word like tremulous could be trademarked in the first place, not that I would even bother trying. I'm asserting the copyright which anyone who makes a creative work automatically gets (at least in most countries). The copyright covers the entire game content, not just the name.

I don't mixing it.
Name can be trademarked - it is not.
Game content is copyrighted automatically - it is.
Shape of aliens or game technics can be patented - it is not.

We do not breaking trademark (there is no any), copyright (we do not using anything exactly from the game), patent (there is no any).

As I said before, you have every right to make whatever game you like, under whatever terms you like, but it cannot be Tremulous. If you want to make something that is Tremulous, you must abide by the licenses under which it was released.

That is true. It can't be your game, we cannot use your code, assets, sounds (btw, did you already solved your copyright infringement of sounds?)... But we can use your name, and your game technics.

It is similar as name of my server "R Unlimited CZ". Some time ago someone started server with a name "R Unlimited US" with our color design. And I? I was glad, that someone like our server so much so he make own server with same name for US playerbase.

Anyway, I will make thread on our forum about suggestions for new name for our game and we will see. Probably it will be best.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

stuff

rota, you need to change everything that is a "built from scratch high res trem 1 model".  excepting the possibility that you actually correctly attribute them.  considering you did not on your website, i seriously doubt you have/will.  it does not matter if you built these models from scratch.  they basically look identical, and that violates copyright.  again, excepting the possibility that you actually properly attribute the authors, the CC license trem's assets are released under is quite permissible.  and like a said before, a blanket credit to "the makers of tremulous 1" does not cut it.

copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.

im taking it from the kickstarter that you dont actually have a publisher?  im pretty sure if you did their legal department would explain to you what a Very Bad Idea a commercial "tremulous 2" is.  if it were as easy as you are suggesting, why has no ailing developer tried their hand at it?  trem isnt unknown....  it won awards and such.

and again, look at the example of nexuiz.  and with nexuiz, basically ALL they took was the name.  if you did actually make and release a commercial "tremulous 2" you would cause a huge explosion of hate for everything tremulous.

if you want to make a commercial aliens vs humans deathmatch game with building, great, more power to you.  just leave the trem name and assets out of it, and do your own development.

edit:

There already was some examples on Tesco and Apple store. But that does not matter, it is allowed to earn money on it.

im pretty sure that violated the license the q3 was released under.  i am almost positive that "free and open source" only applies to non-commercial works using the q3 engine.  especially considering iD still sells commercial q3 licenses.

[amz181]

Rota i'm not trying to be annoying just for the sake of being annoying. I want to see your project come to fruition. Stop acting as if were all on a vendetta to kill your game because I at least, am not.

The facts are:

1.) The copyright holders (trem devs) have a problem with you using their name.
2.) They have expressly told you that they don't want you to use it. Which is well within their rights.
3.) In the future they could quite easily take legal action against you. And they would win.

So why don't you just change the damn name? It will change nothing for you. All it means is a tiny bit of extra work. You are being very childish.

Just to say again, I am looking forward to your game rota, I just wish you would listen. You are clearly in the wrong here.

[rotacak]

RAKninja-Decepticon, amz181: well, you have different opinions than me, that is ok. But you can suggest a new name in our forum.

copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.

Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".

There already was some examples on Tesco and Apple store. But that does not matter, it is allowed to earn money on it.

im pretty sure that violated the license the q3 was released under.  i am almost positive that "free and open source" only applies to non-commercial works using the q3 engine.  especially considering iD still sells commercial q3 licenses.

Again: GPL allows selling it. You can download Tremulous, burn it on CD and sell it for $1000. Right now. You do not need to ask anyone, you do not need to pay anything to anyone. Question is, if you can be punished for that illegal sounds inside.

why has no ailing developer tried their hand at it?  trem isnt unknown....  it won awards and such.

Sadly, in global is unknown.

if you did actually make and release a commercial "tremulous 2" you would cause a huge explosion of hate for everything tremulous.

Why do you think? And who will hate it?

[Undeference]

I'll try this one last time

copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.

Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".

You asked to use the name Tremulous and were asked not to relatively nicely. But you persist. I pointed out that Tremulous is a common law trademark, so the possibility of legally compelling you to change the name exists. (But that is expensive for us and you. You should want to avoid that as much as we do.)

Again: GPL allows selling it. You can download Tremulous, burn it on CD and sell it for $1000. Right now. You do not need to ask anyone, you do not need to pay anything to anyone.

The GPL specifies other terms you have to comply with. If you don't comply with all of the terms of the GPL, none of the terms (including your ability to distribute in any manner) apply to you, making any use is unlicensed.

Question is, if you can be punished for that illegal sounds inside.

That is entirely unrelated and irrelevant to this topic, but fine: it is my (admittedly non-expert) opinion that none of the unlicensed sounds have to be changed because they fall into one or more of: de minimis use; "fair use" or equivalent, where it applies; or uncopyrightable material. Replacing the sounds makes those arguments moot.

The same arguments do not apply to your use.

[yalt]

Rotacack: u actually take this serious? This looks like a e-beggar fraud from a greedy monkey fart who wants to make some extra ca$h. Go to the kickstarter site and watch the videos about concepts. And what we have here, for a second one can see a screen of the desktop. It shows a file named "cinema_serial.txt".U use cinema for ur money begg videos? U really steal software to make a comercial game? CZ-style?
evidence: http://37.114.60.211/serious_developmentbyaaagameslol.jpg
original source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rZD0AGx5Jw4

I feel sorry for all tremplayers who actually give u money for this scam.

[/dev/humancontroller]

wtf is up with kharnov's self-embarrassing posts disappearing?

[kharnov]

Undeference has been deleting my posts lately. Perhaps he doesn't approve of my interpretation of IANAL.

[your face]

i take credit for half of them disappearing. 

[Undeference]

Your post deserved deletion for ingeminating the "joke" everyone got, but you adduce calumniations

your face beat me to it

[rotacak]

yalt: You're just mad, because you was punished for your "nigger" nick on our server. From that moment you acting like a angry baby, repeatedly deconning, spamming on forum and now this.

I will not explain you how Kickstarter money works, what "serial" mean in czech language or even what work this artist actually doing (2D).

Deal with it.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.

Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".
Why do you think? And who will hate it?

1. Using your own text as proof to support your statement... hmm...

Btw, I can gather a list of those who will hate T2. I don't hate T2, but I hate the idea of T2 making money off a project which was initially open source and free.

[/dev/humancontroller]

I will not explain [...] what "serial" mean in czech language

har, har. no need, matey. we understand.

or even what work this artist actually doing

no need. we understand.

Deal with it.

we will. we shall pillage yer relaxed effort, through which ye plan to make undeserved monies.

[yalt]

Nope i act. dont care about ur lame server. Its more like i feel sorry about all player who pay for ur scam. btw u reached 2% at kickstarter?

*and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

copying a server name/color is NOTHING AT ALL like breaking copyright.

Exactly! Same as the name "Tremulous".
Why do you think? And who will hate it?

1. Using your own text as proof to support your statement... hmm...

Btw, I can gather a list of those who will hate T2. I don't hate T2, but I hate the idea of T2 making money off a project which was initially open source and free.

go back and read, the innermost quote is my words.  rota fucked a multiquote up, and so far no one has bothered correcting the mistake.

[rotacak]

This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:

Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it. Now I don't even want to use this name "Tremulous" or any similar name that can remind me this ugly behavior. Actually there is only one last thing that I still love and that is Granger. On the other hand, new name will release our hand to make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.
I hope that we will find new name very soon and we will be finally disconnected from this "Tremulous" forever. I will make changes on our site as soon possible.

Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers and delete everything what I did for this game. But I promised to our players that I will keep server up until there someone will play - that is reason, why I leave it active.

And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull. So, if you (Tim) want to make plaint against me, be sure, that I will do same against you and your whole team for your illegal sounds - you know they are illegal, but you still distributing it. And it is not any work for me. Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation.

End of my personal statement.

Feel free to make fun from my english and I hope that your game will die soon, according to your wish.

Bye.

and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...

You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:

Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it. Now I don't even want to use this name "Tremulous" or any similar name that can remind me this ugly behavior. Actually there is only one last thing that I still love and that is Granger. On the other hand, new name will release our hand to make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.
I hope that we will find new name very soon and we will be finally disconnected from this "Tremulous" forever. I will make changes on our site as soon possible.

Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers and delete everything what I did for this game. But I promised to our players that I will keep server up until there someone will play - that is reason, why I leave it active.

And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull. So, if you (Tim) want to make plaint against me, be sure, that I will do same against you and your whole team for your illegal sounds - you know they are illegal, but you still distributing it. And it is not any work for me. Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation.

End of my personal statement.

Feel free to make fun from my english and I hope that your game will die soon, according to your wish.

Bye.

and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...

You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something.

they ASKED you NICELY to not use the tremulous name.  you ignored them.  every developer that has commented thus far has been against your use of the name.  do you understand?

aside from the name, i hope you do your own concept and design work now.  you've been using assets not properly attributed for a while now, and you have studiously ignored this every time i have brought it up.

i encourage you to go to each copyright holder of the infringing sounds and report them.im fairly sure  most, if not all, of them will not try to claim copyright on any of them, fair use being the grey area that it is, and court costs cutting into profits.  but please, do try.

in closing, do you think us stupid?  YOUTUBE DOES NOT MODERATE THE COMMENTS ON VIDEOS.  if a comment is deleted, there are two possibilities.  1 - the commenter deleted his own comment.  if this happens there will be a "blank" comment reading "comment deleted, author withheld".  2  the UPLOADER deleted the comment, in which case, no record of the comment exists in the comment section.  if anyone was "censoring" because of "bad language" it would be you.  which i find hilarious, because as a non-native speaker, you have know way of knowing which english idioms are made of "bad language" but have a positive meaning.

[Loki]

Since now Tremulous 2 will not use Tremulous as name, I guess that's ok for you, fame may now come with another name. Anyway I guess it will be more original than Tremulous since that name with gameplay didn't really make sense for me since 2006. Anyway the biggest fun:

Tremulous 1.1: Illegal sounds, gonna call da hollywood
Tremulous 1.2gpp: Illegal sounds, gonna call da hollywood babe!
Tremulous "2": SIMILAR MODELS. OH WAIT YOU GONNA CALL DADDY?

just ridiculous devs. Keep deleting posts, truth will come anyways.

war is war, you called for copyright issues so copyright from hollywood or wherever you got them from will be in "your face". and nah not that forum member.


Do not flame T2 devs, and Rotacak. Flame your beloved lazy developers who released 1.2 gpp after 4/5 years? Noone plays it, R Unlimited CZ is the only server that keeps it on its feet. I'd be ashamed. You call it your game but you do nothing.

YOU DELETE THIS POST, YOU DELETE THE RIGHT OF MINE FOR FREEDOM OF MY OPINIONS.


Can I just report the whole Dev team for copyright issues? Oh yes I can. Why shouldn't I do it right now I don't know, I just feel I want to read their reactions and keep telling that T2 violates their copyright.

[Chomps123]

Totally agree with Loki

[CreatureofHell]

Looks like it's time to sit back and enjoy the fireworks. 

[NomadCZ]

I've totally lost any spare respect there was before for the devs. Not only they let the original trem die and they don't give a single **** about it, but they also try to destroy trem 2, so we can't have a new living trem. You are just a bunch of stupid people.

[Loki]

Looks like it's time to sit back and enjoy the fireworks. 

how i feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASj81daun5Q

[Thorn]

Lots of bitter and angry in this thread.

Please rename your shitty wannabee project before it davalues my wonderful memories of Tremulous. Thanks.

[Loki]

Lots of bitter and angry in this thread.

Please rename your shitty wannabee project before it davalues my wonderful memories of Tremulous. Thanks.

Those memories will not remain for long.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Do not flame T2 devs, and Rotacak. Flame your beloved lazy developers who released 1.2 gpp after 4/5 years? Noone plays it, R Unlimited CZ is the only server that keeps it on its feet. I'd be ashamed. You call it your game but you do nothing.

YOU DELETE THIS POST, YOU DELETE THE RIGHT OF MINE FOR FREEDOM OF MY OPINIONS.


Can I just report the whole Dev team for copyright issues? Oh yes I can. Why shouldn't I do it right now I don't know, I just feel I want to read their reactions and keep telling that T2 violates their copyright.

ive been not playing rather than play there, and that was before i knew rota ran the server.  to be honest, i'd love for him to shut down, this way people actually come back to servers that dont suck and have less shitmaps in rotation.

if i were a mod, i'd delete your post just because of your allcaps line.  this is not a democracy here, and believe it or not, you have no rights here.  you are a guest in a house someone else is paying for, to use an analogy.

dont threaten.  timbo didnt. fucking do it.  report the copyright violations to the copyright holders.  grow some balls and do it.  dont cry like a fucking baby, man up and make the reports.  i dont think rota or any of the lackeys he sent in to sooth his inflamed ego have the backbone to actually make any such reports.  let alone even know who owns the copyright of the sounds in question.

[Thorn]

Lots of bitter and angry in this thread.

Please rename your shitty wannabee project before it davalues my wonderful memories of Tremulous. Thanks.

Those memories will not remain for long.

Oh do explain, I'm sure this will be entertaining.

[vcxzet]

The sounds come from BBC Sound Library. It is a royalty free library.
If Dolby owned a license they are legal, otherwise illegal. However we can't find and ask him.

Even if the sounds were used illegally, no one cares. Report it if you want, I doubt anything will happen.
Companies are hesitant to sue open source projects: a) they won't get back huge amounts of money, b) they don't want to look bad.

I don't like trem devs a lot. But they took proper action to remove those sounds before any notice from the owners.

On the other hand, rotacak (who was/is not a developer, just a server owner) used the name Tremulous (which is the name of a free game) without the allowance of any trem devs. IMO this is why people objected to the name.
He also needs to use different looking models if he wants to use them under a license other than CC-BY-SA. If they look too similar they might be considered derivative work.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

if a comment is deleted, there are two possibilities.  1 - the commenter deleted his own comment.  if this happens there will be a "blank" comment reading "comment deleted, author withheld".  2  the UPLOADER deleted the comment, in which case, no record of the comment exists in the comment section.  if anyone was "censoring" because of "bad language" it would be you.  which i find hilarious, because as a non-native speaker, you have know way of knowing which english idioms are made of "bad language" but have a positive meaning.

I have no idea how to delete my own comments or delete comments on videos that I upload... :/

[Meisseli]

This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:

Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it. Now I don't even want to use this name "Tremulous" or any similar name that can remind me this ugly behavior. Actually there is only one last thing that I still love and that is Granger. On the other hand, new name will release our hand to make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.
I hope that we will find new name very soon and we will be finally disconnected from this "Tremulous" forever. I will make changes on our site as soon possible.

Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers and delete everything what I did for this game. But I promised to our players that I will keep server up until there someone will play - that is reason, why I leave it active.

And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull. So, if you (Tim) want to make plaint against me, be sure, that I will do same against you and your whole team for your illegal sounds - you know they are illegal, but you still distributing it. And it is not any work for me. Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation.

End of my personal statement.

Feel free to make fun from my english and I hope that your game will die soon, according to your wish.

Bye.

and now they are censoring questions about this at youtube and their forums. Scared to tell the truth...

You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something.

Oh dear. What a whiny hypocrite you are.

P.S. Please shut down your servers, the vanilla GPP servers need players

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

if a comment is deleted, there are two possibilities.  1 - the commenter deleted his own comment.  if this happens there will be a "blank" comment reading "comment deleted, author withheld".  2  the UPLOADER deleted the comment, in which case, no record of the comment exists in the comment section.  if anyone was "censoring" because of "bad language" it would be you.  which i find hilarious, because as a non-native speaker, you have know way of knowing which english idioms are made of "bad language" but have a positive meaning.

I have no idea how to delete my own comments or delete comments on videos that I upload... :/

mouseover comment you made when logged in, , click the circle that encloses a downward pointing triangle in the upper left corner of the comment, click delete.  on a video you own, it is the same deal, but with any comment.

He also needs to use different looking models if he wants to use them under a license other than CC-BY-SA. If they look too similar they might be considered derivative work.

he'd also have to properly attribute the author of each asset.

P.S. Please shut down your servers, the vanilla GPP servers need players

amen.